3

votes

What do you think?-Don at primal wisdom legumes ideas

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 15, 2011 at 6:54 AM

http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/08/legumes-neolithic-or-not.html

4bf5827bfb7df85c5b4b485db0945e64

(1386)

on April 20, 2012
at 01:06 AM

I should have used "lots" instead of "excessive." I was trying to illustrate how I prefer eating foods that don't require that level of preparation. If I want some carbs, I can just reach for some fruit or boil some tubers. Having to soak and ferment grains so I don't suffer from nutritional deficiencies... no thanks.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 20, 2012
at 12:36 AM

Were you gluten and grain free while eating beans? Even eggs and tomatoes can make you sick if the context is gluten'd.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 20, 2012
at 12:26 AM

Excessive in what way?

4bf5827bfb7df85c5b4b485db0945e64

(1386)

on August 16, 2011
at 05:29 AM

That's interesting. I wonder if it was ultimately the FODMAPs that caused you the problems. Specifically, raffinose in beans.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on August 15, 2011
at 08:18 PM

Yah see I've heard others say the same thing. It's interesting that it works for some and not for others. It's the same as grains. Some people do quite well on grains, and others have health nightmares that ruin their life. I would think that a great deal of the "YMMV" aspect of it is due to the huge variability in gut bacteria from person to person. We are such complex creatures that it's no wonder that there are so many different N=1 experiences.

4bf5827bfb7df85c5b4b485db0945e64

(1386)

on August 15, 2011
at 05:32 PM

How are phytates, which bind minerals and inhibit trypsin in the gut, beneficial? I could only see this if someone was consuming too much iron and the phytates bind to the iron, preventing absorption... Also, many H/G populations have found ways to eliminate the phytates from their staples usually by excessive soaking/processing. This seems to be an advantage for them (reducing the phytate load). As far as soy isoflavones, I've read enough about it to make me nervous but you can definitely find papers showing a benefit. I can find papers saying the opposite. Is it optimal? Probably not.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on August 15, 2011
at 02:43 PM

i kept my mouth shut post talk just because it made no sense to say anything. I think Matt Metzgar had an interesting take on Don's talk. He seems like a nice guy an all but his thought process made zero sense to me.

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 15, 2011
at 10:40 AM

I don't think there is a whole lot of evidence that phytates or phytoestrogens cause problems as part of a normal diet. There is actually evidence they may have some benefits

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3 Answers

6
4bf5827bfb7df85c5b4b485db0945e64

(1386)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:19 AM

I don't think legumes are optimal. The phytoestrogens are too concentrated in soy for my liking and I don't think they are 100% beneficial. FODMAPs are a concern for some folks and that has to be considered. I understand the lectins are mostly destroyed by cooking (not so for peanuts)... but what about the phytates?

If I were a Paleo-vegetarian, I would definitely do some lentils. But I'm not. I don't think beans are optimal so I will mostly avoid them. I think there are more optimal choices to get all the essential nutrients beans contain.

I like beans more than grains but less than dairy. If that makes sense!

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on August 15, 2011
at 10:40 AM

I don't think there is a whole lot of evidence that phytates or phytoestrogens cause problems as part of a normal diet. There is actually evidence they may have some benefits

4bf5827bfb7df85c5b4b485db0945e64

(1386)

on August 15, 2011
at 05:32 PM

How are phytates, which bind minerals and inhibit trypsin in the gut, beneficial? I could only see this if someone was consuming too much iron and the phytates bind to the iron, preventing absorption... Also, many H/G populations have found ways to eliminate the phytates from their staples usually by excessive soaking/processing. This seems to be an advantage for them (reducing the phytate load). As far as soy isoflavones, I've read enough about it to make me nervous but you can definitely find papers showing a benefit. I can find papers saying the opposite. Is it optimal? Probably not.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 20, 2012
at 12:26 AM

Excessive in what way?

4bf5827bfb7df85c5b4b485db0945e64

(1386)

on April 20, 2012
at 01:06 AM

I should have used "lots" instead of "excessive." I was trying to illustrate how I prefer eating foods that don't require that level of preparation. If I want some carbs, I can just reach for some fruit or boil some tubers. Having to soak and ferment grains so I don't suffer from nutritional deficiencies... no thanks.

5
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on August 15, 2011
at 02:12 PM

Jon mentions soybeans in his answer. Personally, I avoid everything with soybeans if I can manage. I just don't see soybeans as a good food for humans and honestly I don't think it has ever been.

But we make other beans in the crockpot every now and then and they are great. They soak for about 24-36 hours, with the water being changed 2-3 times in that period. By the end of the soaking period, they are quite alive with activity, and much of the issues that legumes contain and cause truly are neutralized. Then they are cooked in the crockpot for another 8-10 hours. Doing beans this way is quite different than just eating beans out of a can or even just cooking raw beans straight away without soaking.

If you want some additional pizazz, you can toss some bacon scraps into the crockpot or soup pan.

3
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on August 15, 2011
at 07:21 PM

As a former vegetarian of 14 years, I can share my n=1 experience that soaking, draining and fermenting did not help my digestion of legumes.

Legumes are seeds that don't want to be eaten. I think it's wishful thinking to consider them as an optimal food source except in cases where animal foods are not available.

4bf5827bfb7df85c5b4b485db0945e64

(1386)

on August 16, 2011
at 05:29 AM

That's interesting. I wonder if it was ultimately the FODMAPs that caused you the problems. Specifically, raffinose in beans.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on August 15, 2011
at 08:18 PM

Yah see I've heard others say the same thing. It's interesting that it works for some and not for others. It's the same as grains. Some people do quite well on grains, and others have health nightmares that ruin their life. I would think that a great deal of the "YMMV" aspect of it is due to the huge variability in gut bacteria from person to person. We are such complex creatures that it's no wonder that there are so many different N=1 experiences.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 20, 2012
at 12:36 AM

Were you gluten and grain free while eating beans? Even eggs and tomatoes can make you sick if the context is gluten'd.

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