4

votes

Should I treat HIIT days as rest days or workout days?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created January 03, 2012 at 11:13 PM

I currently do Crossfit 2x a week fasted with BCAA's and My macros will be less fat/more carbs on those days. EDITED: Someone asked what my CF workout is like usually and I would say 10-15 minute warm up, stretching, and a 12-15 minute or so WOD.

Now on Rest days, I planned to lower my carbs and do higher fat...

I know that Martin and true Leangainers followers are not a huge fan of HIIT, but my homeopathic DR wants me to do a fasted 20 minutes of "peak 8" style cardio interval which takes 20 minutes on a recumbent bike, on some of the mornings that I don't do Crossfit for added fat loss... I plan on doing this about 2x times a week. So 4 workouts/ per week total.

*My question is, on these HIIT days, should I treat them as a rest day (lower carb)? Or treat them as a Lifting day? Also.... would you do the BCAA's before and after the cardio or just on the lifting days??*

I am not asking advice on whether its OK to combine Crossfit with HIIT a few times week, It works fine for me... =)

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 05, 2012
at 02:27 AM

The other issue is what is a 12 minute WOD? are you simply doing metcons? if you are, it might be worthwhile to lift a few times?

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 05, 2012
at 02:26 AM

If you are looking to do fasted workouts, it would make more sense to train on BCAA's.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 10:31 PM

Did cody make u mad on another thread or something?

Medium avatar

(8239)

on January 04, 2012
at 10:05 PM

Why am I sipping BCAAs on my light cardio days? Goes back 3 years, to when I entered a "cut" phase in weight training. My coach was a champion bodybuilder and fitness model who, when trying to lean out while preserving muscle, had found it beneficial to sip whey protein drink while doing cardio. I followed that protocol and found doing so facilitated fat burning while preserving lean tissue. Now I substitute BCAAs for whey. If I didn't sip BCAA while doing light cardio (say 45 mins) in a fasted state, would I enter a catabolic state rather than a fat-burning state? I do not know for sure.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 04, 2012
at 09:34 PM

People who think I'm a troll are beyond hope. 'Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.'

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 09:30 PM

Oh good its not just me who thinks so!

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:47 PM

yea ignore him hes retarded

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:20 PM

I like BCAAs before any fasted training.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 04, 2012
at 06:36 PM

I would not. I would reserve the BCAA's for lifting days, pre-workout, preferably in a fasted state.

2c2349bc7af0fedb59a5fe99dac9fae2

(2707)

on January 04, 2012
at 06:12 PM

Why are you sipping BCAAs on your light cardio days? LeanGains only recommends this for pre workout (strength training), and also post workout if you are doing the early morning protocol.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Oh and my CF workouts are a warm up for like 10 minutes, stretching, and like a 12 minute WOD.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:06 PM

Would you do BCAA"s on cardio days?

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:06 PM

Thank you...! =)

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:04 PM

yep, It is when you don't ask all the fact and u make assumptions. And when you call something I use faithfully to help my sick son, "Crap" when no one asked u! lol

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:03 PM

Cody, I totally came here seeking advice, but not on if I should or should not do HIIT, and NOT if I should do muscle testing.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:02 PM

Just gonna do 20 minutes Peak 8 on my recumbent bike 2 or so days a week..

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:53 PM

I was going to say the same thing Craig. It didn't work well in my experience at 30% bodyfat. PSMF works great for me, though, and Lyle's exercise recommendations are pretty similar.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:51 PM

Actually, people tell me I am funny all of the time Amanda. :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:51 PM

Not sure why you came here seeking advice/input if you know everything already? And my opinion and your opinion differ. I would never discount the placebo effect, which I am fairly certain kids can pick up from their parents. But I am happy that you found something that works. Why seek input if your beliefs are so strong? Were you just looking for validation or honest input?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:49 PM

It is rude to provide my opinion to you? Then why did you ask?

7842808cd699f35741248f8e55c776bd

(218)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:48 PM

I understand your issue with some of the responses to your intended query, but there's certainly a way to address others' opposition to your personal choices regarding workout regimen without dipping into such overdrawn sarcasm. I just think you might get the actual responses you want if you were to employ a little more patience.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:41 AM

You make some valid points Dorado. Regarding Leangains, a point that may be overlooked by some is that the program is designed for those with very low bf%. Berkhan believes its most efficient for those with 10-12%. I would assume a fair amount of people who attempt Leangains and have a poor ROI aren't in the proper shape to begin with.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:24 AM

Point being, I would assume many people who attempt Leangains aren't in the proper shape to see the type of results they are hoping for.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:23 AM

You make some valid points Dorado. Regarding Leangains, a point that may be overlooked by some is that the program is designed for those with very low bf%. From the Leangains approach, "You should be fairly lean when attempting this approach, as lower body fat means better insulin sensitivity. This seems to work synergistically with the fasting and tends to improve results on my recomposition plan. I would say 10-12% body fat is an appropriate starting point to pull this off with the greatest efficiency."

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:10 AM

BCAA when training fasted. Include higher carbs on training days post workout and go as low as you want on non training days, if you get to a point where you feel like your glycogen is depleted or you want to reload, take a day and eat carbs and protein and limit fat.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:31 AM

By the way, what are you doing for HIIT?

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:31 AM

Amanda, sorry I was not trying to jump down your throat in any way. Lifting(and paleo) is a passion of mine and I was just trying to help. I am currently bulking so I am not training fasted. I would treat HIIT days the same as crossfit days.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:30 AM

Amanda, sorry I was not trying to jump down your throat in any way. Lifting is a passion of mine. I am currently bulking so I am not training fasting. I would treat HIIT days the same as crossfit days.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:55 AM

I am VERY VERY sorry I used the word "Leangains"... shoulda left it out completely. Technically, what I'm doing is very much like the "Whole 30" paleo program (which includes carbs after CF style workouts)... only thing is I'm adding BCAA's. people need to chill out I wish I could delete this flipping question!

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:54 AM

I am VERY VERY sorry I used the word "Leangains"... shoulda left it out completely. Technically, what I'm doing is very much like the "Whole 30" pale program (which includes carbs after CF style workouts)... only thing is I'm adding BCAA's. people need to chill out I wish I could delete this flipping question!

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:23 AM

Cody you also just mentioned above "doing that much HIIT is not a good idea"..... you are making assumptions as to how many times per week I planned on doing the 20 minutes of cardio. I never stated how much. You have NO idea if I will get the results I'm after if I do CF 2x a week and 20 minutes of HIIT 2x a week also. It is rude for u to make assumptions about how MY body will react when you don't have all the facts.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:48 AM

OMG u are hilarious Cody. Not

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:38 AM

conciliator, why are you picking on me? you don't even make any sense.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:37 AM

Thank u Dorado =) You are so far the nicest person to respond to me.. I don't think I'll ever ask another question on this website, people are too rude and judgmental. @Cody, muscle testing works VERY well for me, in fact it is the ONLY thing that has helped my 9 year old sons symptoms from a serious autoimmune disorder that he suffers from called Eosiniphiilic Esophagitius. SO I would hold off before you unfairly call something crap that you obviously don't know enough about.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Conciliator I don't know how I offended u so much by my question as your responses have been awfully harsh... Oh and BTW WHERE exactly did I mention that I "NEED" to do Crossfit to lose fat???? IF you read my comment below Dorado's answer, I clearly stated that I "love" doing Crossfit.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:33 AM

Conciliator I don't know how I offended u so much by my question as your responses have been awfully harsh... Oh and WHERE exactly di I mention that I "NEED" to do Crossfit to lose fat???? IF you read my comment below Dorado's answer, I clearly stated that I "love" doing Crossfit.

Medium avatar

(8239)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:19 AM

Amanda, I forgot to speak to the BCAA issue. On my own Leangains program, I start sipping BCAA solution an hour prior to my 3-times-weekly weight workout. On "rest" days I might go for a slow jog for 45 minutes, sipping BCAA as I go. I have a strong sense that BCAA is muscle preserving while fat gets metabolized.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Heck yeah! I love it when people use actual facts in their answers and think logically. +1

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:59 AM

Martin recommends you lift weights 3x week and walk, not run, the other days for fat burning. HIIT will burn up muscle glycogen, and severely decrees recovery ability, which you will need lifting weights. Walking will help with burning fat. If regular walking is just too easy, put on a backpack and start loading it up and walking with that on. – Bill1102inf 42 secs ago

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:58 AM

Martin recommends you lift weights 3x week and walk, not run, the other days for fat burning. HIIT will burn up muscle glycogen, and severely decrees recovery ability, which you will need lifting weights. Walking will help with burning fat. If regular walking is just too easy, put on a backpack and start loading it up and walking with that on.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:38 AM

I would say if you are going to follow his advice then dont half arse it....Either follow it or don't. Then you will "know" if he was spot on with his recommendations or not. And when talking about muscle testing/kinesiology it wasn't for me, but that is not the same as me saying it's crap. Its just outside my comfort zone right now, but I do think that there are some practitioners that can utilize it to the benefit of their patients.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:28 AM

Amanda, I wanna combine low intensity cardio with HIIT. Don't tell me there's ONE WAY to do them.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:18 AM

I agree. fasted cardio or HIIT, especially in the AM can potentially raise Cortisol levels in people who probably already have funked up Cortisol levels. But maybe we should muscle test it? LOL

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:17 AM

Dorado is correct and frankly, muscle testing is crap. Because it's not your body that is doing the talking, it could potentially be the conscious or subconscious of the other person manipulating your body for the answers they "know". I do believe in intuition, but again, muscle testing is crap.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:13 AM

Hey Amanda, if I put you in a room and don't feed you, you'll lose fat, with or without crossfit. That's a FACT. There are many ways to lose fat, you do **not** *need* to do crossfit.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:12 AM

Yeah, but doing that much HIIT is not a good idea. Seriously. You will most likely not attain the results you are looking for.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:12 AM

**most** people's goals. Until you're under 10-12% bodyfat for men (faintest of unflexed 6 packs) or 15-17% for women it's not needed. People who recommend HIIT to the overweight or obese are simply using the wrong tool for the job, and are likely to injure someone.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:09 AM

There is nothing "Flawed" about my question. And I did not ask if I should combine multiple approaches. I think most people combine multiple approaches when it comes to their diet AND their exercise. I know for a FACT that 2x a week Crossfit is NOT enough activity for my body for fat loss.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:08 AM

There is nothing "Flawed" about my question. And I did not ask if I should combine multiple approaches. I think most people combine multiple approaches when it comes to their diet AND there exercise. I know for a FACT that 2x a week Crossfit is NOT enough activity for my body.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 04, 2012
at 01:05 AM

Well, I agree re the HIIT is not rest comment, but disagree that it's overkill for fat loss goals. I think that HIIT is a great tool for fat loss.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 04, 2012
at 01:04 AM

I thought it was a good answer because it addressed the usefulness (or not) of combining multiple approaches. If the initial question is flawed, then doesn't it make sense to point that out?

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 12:55 AM

Miked's answer did not answer my question at all IMO. My question involved low carb or more carbs and BCAA's which were never addressed.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 12:53 AM

Mikes "answer" did not answer my question at all actually IMO.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 12:32 AM

Hi =) ...... well actually he uses Muscle testing/ Kinesiology (not sure if you're familiar with that or not)... my body tested well for morning IFing when used in combination with HIIT cardio (as crazy as that might sound~)... but I don't wanna give up my CF 2x a week because its so fun~!

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 04, 2012
at 12:15 AM

I'll defer to miked (great answer), but I will add that if you're doing it right, HIIT is *never* a rest day!

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 12:13 AM

Well, just like theres no ONE WAY to do the Paleo diet that fits everyone, I don't think theres anything wrong with creating a workout plan from a few different angles. Not everything is one size fits all!! And you did not even answer my question.

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11 Answers

13
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20898)

on January 04, 2012
at 12:05 AM

John Welbourn has a pretty good rant on this: don't mix-and-match programs! There's a reason the programs are designed the way they are. If you want to do Leangains, do Leangains. If you want to do HIIT, then do HIIT. If you want MEBB, do MEBB. If you want Starting Strength, do Starting Strength. Mixing them WON'T give you the sum of them, it'll end up being worthless.

Pick what you want as a goal, and go for it. (You can't have it all at once.)

This doesn't mean you do one program for the rest of your life, you just do big cycles. For example, in the spring, I do lots of light metcon work because that the crossfit games season and most of those workouts are light and fast. In the summer I do heavy metcon plus traditional strength training because the extra sun exposure triggers lots of growth hormones and I can get real strong. Fall is rock climbing and indoor rowing. And Winter is snowboarding. So over the course of a year I hit a lot of things, but during one season, I'm focus on a single program.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 09:30 PM

Oh good its not just me who thinks so!

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 12:13 AM

Well, just like theres no ONE WAY to do the Paleo diet that fits everyone, I don't think theres anything wrong with creating a workout plan from a few different angles. Not everything is one size fits all!! And you did not even answer my question.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:28 AM

Amanda, I wanna combine low intensity cardio with HIIT. Don't tell me there's ONE WAY to do them.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:38 AM

conciliator, why are you picking on me? you don't even make any sense.

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:47 PM

yea ignore him hes retarded

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 04, 2012
at 09:34 PM

People who think I'm a troll are beyond hope. 'Though this be madness, yet there is method in't.'

9
Medium avatar

on January 04, 2012
at 12:19 AM

Sounds like you're describing two-three days Crossfit, with rest days in between, per week. I personally would literally rest on those "rest days" because Crossfit challenges the central nervous system quite ??? well, exhaustively. My response is based on my own experience with Leangains. I attribute that success to accepting the notion that rest days should, in fact, be rest days. So the central nervous system can recover from, and integrate the Crossfit workouts.

You raise a good question: If you do HIIT on "rest days" as prescribed, that ceases to make them rest days. They become workout days. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because HIIT is short (in duration) it's not demanding. It is.

I used to run marathons, and believed that when in doubt, I should go for a run. Over time, I gave the benefit of the doubt to rest days. By alternating intense (fast and/or long) running days, with days off the following day, my times improved and my sense of well-being skyrocketed.

The point is: you want to burn fat. Elevated cortisol can slow fat loss. Intense exercise per se is not cortisol producing; it's the intensity with lack of sufficient rest between training bouts.

Is your homeopathic MD wearing his homeopathy hat in prescribing HIIT, or is he speaking as a trainer who has used HIIT successfully as he recommends?

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:38 AM

I would say if you are going to follow his advice then dont half arse it....Either follow it or don't. Then you will "know" if he was spot on with his recommendations or not. And when talking about muscle testing/kinesiology it wasn't for me, but that is not the same as me saying it's crap. Its just outside my comfort zone right now, but I do think that there are some practitioners that can utilize it to the benefit of their patients.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:37 AM

Thank u Dorado =) You are so far the nicest person to respond to me.. I don't think I'll ever ask another question on this website, people are too rude and judgmental. @Cody, muscle testing works VERY well for me, in fact it is the ONLY thing that has helped my 9 year old sons symptoms from a serious autoimmune disorder that he suffers from called Eosiniphiilic Esophagitius. SO I would hold off before you unfairly call something crap that you obviously don't know enough about.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 12:32 AM

Hi =) ...... well actually he uses Muscle testing/ Kinesiology (not sure if you're familiar with that or not)... my body tested well for morning IFing when used in combination with HIIT cardio (as crazy as that might sound~)... but I don't wanna give up my CF 2x a week because its so fun~!

2c2349bc7af0fedb59a5fe99dac9fae2

(2707)

on January 04, 2012
at 06:12 PM

Why are you sipping BCAAs on your light cardio days? LeanGains only recommends this for pre workout (strength training), and also post workout if you are doing the early morning protocol.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:51 PM

Not sure why you came here seeking advice/input if you know everything already? And my opinion and your opinion differ. I would never discount the placebo effect, which I am fairly certain kids can pick up from their parents. But I am happy that you found something that works. Why seek input if your beliefs are so strong? Were you just looking for validation or honest input?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:17 AM

Dorado is correct and frankly, muscle testing is crap. Because it's not your body that is doing the talking, it could potentially be the conscious or subconscious of the other person manipulating your body for the answers they "know". I do believe in intuition, but again, muscle testing is crap.

Medium avatar

(8239)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:19 AM

Amanda, I forgot to speak to the BCAA issue. On my own Leangains program, I start sipping BCAA solution an hour prior to my 3-times-weekly weight workout. On "rest" days I might go for a slow jog for 45 minutes, sipping BCAA as I go. I have a strong sense that BCAA is muscle preserving while fat gets metabolized.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:03 PM

Cody, I totally came here seeking advice, but not on if I should or should not do HIIT, and NOT if I should do muscle testing.

Medium avatar

(8239)

on January 04, 2012
at 10:05 PM

Why am I sipping BCAAs on my light cardio days? Goes back 3 years, to when I entered a "cut" phase in weight training. My coach was a champion bodybuilder and fitness model who, when trying to lean out while preserving muscle, had found it beneficial to sip whey protein drink while doing cardio. I followed that protocol and found doing so facilitated fat burning while preserving lean tissue. Now I substitute BCAAs for whey. If I didn't sip BCAA while doing light cardio (say 45 mins) in a fasted state, would I enter a catabolic state rather than a fat-burning state? I do not know for sure.

4
74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

on January 04, 2012
at 03:51 AM

Amanda, I am going to join the chorus of people who seem like we are picking on you. Every beginner tries to pick and choose programs so please do not think anyone is not responding. Everyone serious about fitness beats themselves up with a "super secret squirrel program" before reaching out.

I do not know anyone who when they starting out did not combine.The lean gains diet was not designed around metcon style workouts. What are you goals? (saying "I want to maintain strength and lose fat as fast as I can. Critique my diet and exercise plan" would be easy to respond to.)

Its difficult to lose fat and put on muscle at the same time. If you want to follow leangains type diet, you should be lifting like Martin suggests. The diet and and the exercise are symbiotic.

here is one of the referenced rants: http://talktomejohnnie.com/crossfit-football/from-cffb-to-pln

Edit: what do you consider crossfit workouts? You got the reaction that you did because IF and long chippers are really not compatible.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:55 AM

I am VERY VERY sorry I used the word "Leangains"... shoulda left it out completely. Technically, what I'm doing is very much like the "Whole 30" paleo program (which includes carbs after CF style workouts)... only thing is I'm adding BCAA's. people need to chill out I wish I could delete this flipping question!

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:31 AM

Amanda, sorry I was not trying to jump down your throat in any way. Lifting(and paleo) is a passion of mine and I was just trying to help. I am currently bulking so I am not training fasted. I would treat HIIT days the same as crossfit days.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:30 AM

Amanda, sorry I was not trying to jump down your throat in any way. Lifting is a passion of mine. I am currently bulking so I am not training fasting. I would treat HIIT days the same as crossfit days.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:31 AM

By the way, what are you doing for HIIT?

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 05, 2012
at 02:26 AM

If you are looking to do fasted workouts, it would make more sense to train on BCAA's.

74c1777d7d39b053ca64c065dcdb0072

(713)

on January 05, 2012
at 02:27 AM

The other issue is what is a 12 minute WOD? are you simply doing metcons? if you are, it might be worthwhile to lift a few times?

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 03:54 AM

I am VERY VERY sorry I used the word "Leangains"... shoulda left it out completely. Technically, what I'm doing is very much like the "Whole 30" pale program (which includes carbs after CF style workouts)... only thing is I'm adding BCAA's. people need to chill out I wish I could delete this flipping question!

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:02 PM

Just gonna do 20 minutes Peak 8 on my recumbent bike 2 or so days a week..

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:07 PM

Oh and my CF workouts are a warm up for like 10 minutes, stretching, and like a 12 minute WOD.

4
Medium avatar

on January 04, 2012
at 03:15 AM

I have already commented on Amanda'a query, and am chiming in a second time because I find myself wanting to respond to some of the interesting and intelligent responses.

miked quotes John Welbourn: don't mix paradigms. "If you're going to do Leangains do it consistently and exclusively." This is powerful advice when paradigms (models, plans, strategies) are well defined. Not so powerful given that some schools paradigms are not as well established as their founders sometimes insist.

I have had success with Leangains, such that I could declare it "effective." But in fact I have no basis for such a global claim. In fact, I tweaked Leangains to meet my interests. I am a long-time runner and, while I am no longer into "chronic cardio," I recoil when told: "Don't do cardio because Martin (Berkhan) doesn't do cardio." Sorry, I added cardio to my Leangains plan because I love running and am not going to put some abstract "body recomposition" goal above overall well-being of the kind that cardio fosters.

"Everybody who does Leangains succeeds." There's no reason to assume that's true. More likely: many people succeed on Martin's protocol, and they announce their success proudly and with justified satisfaction. Who do we not hear from? Those who follow Martin's protocol but do not achieve his amazing results. Surely many of those people quit, fade away, and most importantly, they don't post their failures.

So, I respectfully decline to join the "choose one, and only one, paradigm" mindset, when, in fact, there's not a compelling body of evidence that Leangains can demonstrate a magnificent success rate following the dogmatic "Do this but don't do that" precepts of a remarkable European prodigy.

Due respect to Martin Berkhan: He's figured out a plan that works for him. It seems to work for others. Does it work for "everyone"? No evidence for such a claim. When those who don't succeed are factored into the sample, let's talk again.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:41 AM

You make some valid points Dorado. Regarding Leangains, a point that may be overlooked by some is that the program is designed for those with very low bf%. Berkhan believes its most efficient for those with 10-12%. I would assume a fair amount of people who attempt Leangains and have a poor ROI aren't in the proper shape to begin with.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:23 AM

You make some valid points Dorado. Regarding Leangains, a point that may be overlooked by some is that the program is designed for those with very low bf%. From the Leangains approach, "You should be fairly lean when attempting this approach, as lower body fat means better insulin sensitivity. This seems to work synergistically with the fasting and tends to improve results on my recomposition plan. I would say 10-12% body fat is an appropriate starting point to pull this off with the greatest efficiency."

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:53 PM

I was going to say the same thing Craig. It didn't work well in my experience at 30% bodyfat. PSMF works great for me, though, and Lyle's exercise recommendations are pretty similar.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:24 AM

Point being, I would assume many people who attempt Leangains aren't in the proper shape to see the type of results they are hoping for.

3
Af005ec9a8e028f2b04bf5367b64e0d6

on January 04, 2012
at 03:45 PM

Guys, crossfit 2x a week and some HIIT 2x a week is not that much. I get that everyone is all worried about cortisol and "adrenal fatigue" and that kind of thing but if you eat and rest enough, that's fine. Those are 4 intense workouts but the volume is low in the scheme of things.

Amanda, if you feel like you should eat low-carb on rest days then do that. But if you're doing HIIT then obviously that's not a rest day. So eat more carbs. If it feels like a rest day you need to make the intensity higher (hence High Intensity). If you're half-assing HIIT then there's no point in doing it anyway, and you might as well just do nothing or do some longer slow cardio for recovery.

In conclusion, everyone chill and Amanda, eat carbs on those days.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:06 PM

Thank you...! =)

3
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on January 04, 2012
at 01:59 AM

Martin recommends you lift weights 3x week and walk, not run, the other days for fat burning. HIIT will burn up muscle glycogen, and severely decrees recovery ability, which you will need lifting weights. Walking will help with burning fat. If regular walking is just too easy, put on a backpack and start loading it up and walking with that on. If you must, do one day of sprints HIIT style.

"My question is, on these HIIT days, should I treat them as a rest day (lower carb)? Or treat them as a Lifting day? Also.... would you do the BCAA's before and after the cardio or just on the lifting days??

IMO, you should select three workout days for the higher calorie days (higher carb days) and the other days do low carb lower calories. Of course, you can switch that and do 4 and 3 instead. Use BCAA supps prior to fasted training.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Heck yeah! I love it when people use actual facts in their answers and think logically. +1

3
Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

on January 04, 2012
at 12:54 AM

HIIT is most certainly not rest.

It is also certainly not compatible with leangains.

And unless you are very lean fasted HIIT is overkill. Hell, fasted cardio or even HIIT is overkill for most peoples' fat loss goals.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:18 AM

I agree. fasted cardio or HIIT, especially in the AM can potentially raise Cortisol levels in people who probably already have funked up Cortisol levels. But maybe we should muscle test it? LOL

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:12 AM

**most** people's goals. Until you're under 10-12% bodyfat for men (faintest of unflexed 6 packs) or 15-17% for women it's not needed. People who recommend HIIT to the overweight or obese are simply using the wrong tool for the job, and are likely to injure someone.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:48 AM

OMG u are hilarious Cody. Not

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 04, 2012
at 04:51 PM

Actually, people tell me I am funny all of the time Amanda. :)

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on January 04, 2012
at 01:05 AM

Well, I agree re the HIIT is not rest comment, but disagree that it's overkill for fat loss goals. I think that HIIT is a great tool for fat loss.

1
1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on January 04, 2012
at 01:22 PM

The purpose of the leangains scheme is nutrient partitioning and timing. Martin recommends doing 3 days a week for most people of heavy lifting, and doing higher carb on those days while doing lower carb on rest days. This lower carb is definitely relative to the person however, and going sub 50g is not required.

To answer your question: Your soonest meal after any workout should be higher in carbs than any other meals in that day in order to fit with the leangains style of fasting and eating. If on your non-crossfit days (when you're doing HIIT) you want to eat lower carb than crossfit days that is fine. Just make sure that your post-HIIT meal has the majority of that day's carbs.

For example:
M/W/F are crossfit days and you eat at noon and 7pm, with 100 and 50g of carbs respectively
T/Th are HIIT days and you want to go lower carb so you eat 60 and 20g respectively with only green veggies in the second meal for carbs.
Sat/Sun are true Rest Days and you eat 50g of carbs from all vegetables.

Of course this is an example and not a recommendation. You'd want to modify this to suit your needs.

TLDR: Yes you can eat lower carb. Make sure your first meal after your workout has enough carbs to keep your performance optimal. On Crossfit days (assuming they are harder than your HIIT days) eat more carbs.

4164a77c7ccf4839ec7f1e665d27cc6d

(1085)

on January 04, 2012
at 06:36 PM

I would not. I would reserve the BCAA's for lifting days, pre-workout, preferably in a fasted state.

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:06 PM

Would you do BCAA"s on cardio days?

1ec4e7ca085b7f8d5821529653e1e35a

(5506)

on January 04, 2012
at 07:20 PM

I like BCAAs before any fasted training.

0
C136915eef408a1e6beb126ae6cc6ab8

on January 28, 2012
at 08:46 AM

I box and I do a lot of high intensity training (plyometrics, running, sprinting etc) mixed with cross fit and a lot of flexibility training. To do Leangains I'm going to add two "power" lifting days where I do heavy weights low sets low reps to gain power more so than just mass. I box so I don't want useless muscle mass and one day of exclusive HIIT on my high carb day post training. the rest days I either swim or do pilates or yoga. Sunday is my day off. Leangains is a template but a template does not need to be a carbon copy for everyone. People, including myself have thrived on defying tradition or basic studies. And what works for many doesn't work for all and adaptability and flexibility make plans like this work. Leangains itself flies in the face of traditional rules and methodology. the 5-6 smalls meals and no late night carbs and calories that we thought were forbidden. I know that I do not lose muscle mass with lots of cardio, I don't need my carbs coming from whole grains and I don't need high amounts of protein and I'm a vegan and have seen great lean gains before starting it. Amanda the only way you're going to know is to apply it. We can talk all night about what could or should happen but the only way to know for sure is to be the guinea pig. I would say you should be ok as long as you are adequately fueled but I will say rest is just as important as training and make sure you are at least stretching and sleeping enough. My template is similar to yours and I think it will work if your body doesn't comply with what normal circumstances call for.

-3
48073fb5dbdd930f6642cfc0ca8b5150

on January 04, 2012
at 09:03 PM

Hey Cody aren't you obese? Do you find it hard to type smart ass remarks with your sausage fingers? Fatty

B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

(430)

on January 04, 2012
at 10:31 PM

Did cody make u mad on another thread or something?

-4
B58511bcd1ecc0dd4ad8130859513c81

on January 04, 2012
at 04:16 AM

HEAVEN FORBID that a person do crossfit 2x week, and 20 minutes of High intensity cardio 2x a week too and combine it with BCAA's..... WOW u would think I murdered someone or something from the comments I am getting...

PLEASE if you want to respond to my question, please JUST stick to my ACTUAL question.... which is: DO you do low carb and do you still use BCAA's on the days that you PERSONALLY do HIIT.

Thank you

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on January 04, 2012
at 05:10 AM

BCAA when training fasted. Include higher carbs on training days post workout and go as low as you want on non training days, if you get to a point where you feel like your glycogen is depleted or you want to reload, take a day and eat carbs and protein and limit fat.

7842808cd699f35741248f8e55c776bd

(218)

on January 04, 2012
at 02:48 PM

I understand your issue with some of the responses to your intended query, but there's certainly a way to address others' opposition to your personal choices regarding workout regimen without dipping into such overdrawn sarcasm. I just think you might get the actual responses you want if you were to employ a little more patience.

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