0

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LDL up to 111 from 87

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 23, 2012 at 2:20 PM

So after three months on pretty strict paleo, my LDL went up from 87 to 111. I know these tests don't break down large and small particles, but I'm impressed with how quickly it went up. I have more than my fair share of bulletproof coffee. I'll own up to that. My doctor wants it at 70. I'm 32 5'5" and 145 lbs. She also says I need to exercise more to lower it. I don't really have a question, but does anyone have anything to add to the general doctors v/s cholesterol discussion?

Old: Chol: 162, HDL 55, Triglycerides 99, LDL 87 (not 86, sorry)

New: Chol: 190, HDL 64, Triglycerides 79, LDL 11

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 09:46 PM

Loading them up now. ThankYou!

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 09:01 PM

There's a chance I might fire her. She really wants my LDL at 70. I don't have the risk factors to need it that low.

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 08:59 PM

I'm not even remotely willing to consider statins. I'm just going to stay positive and pretend I can switch her to Paleo. Good luck with your doctor.

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 08:55 PM

Jack, Thanks for the input. These changes took place over three months. Has it been long enough to assume that without any more dietary changes these numbers are my new baseline or should I expect more changes over the next few months?

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:30 PM

Your numbers are good and are generally moving in the right direction. I would bet that those new LDL you have are the large fluffy variety. Don't sweat it too much - any doctor worth going to should tell you that your health is improving.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:56 PM

Right on, Stabby, taking a page off my book. Plus the fact that in this case, the "increase" from 87 to 111 is simply "noise". Measurement errors, mmethods used, and what time of the day it was will impact the LDL level. The cholesterol test is not like measuring some 40 yeard dash. Tell your doc that the supposed LDL increase is 2 insignificant and negligible to be meaningful.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:18 PM

Risk factors for heart disease: blood pressure, insulin resistance, high levels of inflammation, nutrient deficiencies, trans fats, low T3, all of them producing atherosclerosis having nothing to do with the physical fact of more cholesterol in the blood, but raising cholesterol simultaneously. It is a fallacy to say that then if there is somewhat of a correlation between LDL in heart disease in some age/gender groups in some populations that anything that increases LDL is causing an increase in atherosclerosis. Your LDL is -lower- than in Kitava where they don't have heart disease...

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:15 PM

your levels temporarily. I think that you should just work on feeling great and being healthy, getting good nutrition, and all of that right now. Don't worry about fearmongering by people who don't understand the issue.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:14 PM

All of that cream can increase it, that's for sure. However it's still pretty low, it is absurd to worry about an LDL of 111 if your general metabolic health and nutrient intake is good, in fact it might even be better, since cholesterol in the blood helps combat pathogens. There isn't much reason to think that this is a pathological change, it could just be greater supply, which is a good thing. The bad kind of LDL increase is when your clearance becomes worse and they linger in the blood longer, being more likely to oxidize. As foreveryoung just mentioned, resolving fatty liver can increase.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:04 PM

Cholesterol confuses me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:03 PM

If that is truly why cholesterol is produced, then why do low carbers have high HDL?

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:03 PM

I just posted a link to my current diet...That's my question too. I'm not obese and have no health problems except for the occasional migraine. I'm also not trying to conceive. I don't know why it needs to be 70.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:02 PM

Keep in mind that LDLs can rise if you've lost weight.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:02 PM

OH. Okay. I was wondering, lol. What I am familiar with high HDL and lowish LDL (depends on particle size) and low trigs are what you want.

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:01 PM

I'll have a copy of my before and after tests in a few hours, so I can crunch some numbers for particle size. Thank you for the input.

7fc82eebafd44badc73c520f44660150

(3275)

on April 23, 2012
at 03:59 PM

Molly, please post the rest of your numbers.

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 03:53 PM

I don't think it's a good thing. I guess my tone was confusing...I'm just impressed by how quickly making dietary changes can affect the body. For better or worse.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 23, 2012
at 02:42 PM

why is high LDL a good thing?

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8 Answers

2
26e2364f7966432bbf8acfe930583674

(460)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:08 PM

If I read everything correctly:

1) Your HDL:LDL ratio improved (it's actually stellar per the AMA standards)

2) Your tridlycerides went down (again stellar per conventional standards)

3) Your LDL value is average for your age

4) Your HDL falls above the threshold for 'protective'

By conventional metrics your levels are perfectly fine and your doctor is not satisfied? I say fire your doctor it it's an option.

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 09:01 PM

There's a chance I might fire her. She really wants my LDL at 70. I don't have the risk factors to need it that low.

1
D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 23, 2012
at 03:35 PM

A paleo diet (high in saturated fat) will increase both your HDL and LDL particles, but really it's the ratio between the two that is important and saturated fats should not throw the ratio out of whack. The key difference should be that your LDL becomes large and fluffy. Like you mentioned, a normal lipid profile will not show that. How is your triglyceride:HDL ratio? - Dr. Lustig recommends using that as a proxy for LDL particle size. <1 is very good. If it is >1 try eating more foods that raise HDL, and of course eat fewer carbohydrates since they are known to increase LDL and reduce LDL particle size (very bad).

I'm sure you knew all that, but just beware since a lot of doctors don't stay current with advances in nutrition science. Your LDL count really isn't that high, so I would be wary if your doctor wanted you on statins to reduce to 70.

D290734f36a9ae03e3f60e0fa088d7ed

(1304)

on April 23, 2012
at 07:30 PM

Your numbers are good and are generally moving in the right direction. I would bet that those new LDL you have are the large fluffy variety. Don't sweat it too much - any doctor worth going to should tell you that your health is improving.

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:01 PM

I'll have a copy of my before and after tests in a few hours, so I can crunch some numbers for particle size. Thank you for the input.

0
5388361e71b8f9b29b684bb30609cd31

(138)

on April 23, 2012
at 09:08 PM

Listen to the following podcasts from Chris Kresser. He is discussing the subject of cholesterol with Chris Masterjohn. Part 2 specifically addresses your concern about total cholesterol and LDL going the "wrong" way while HDL and triglycerides are improving.

Episode 11, Part 1, 6/7/2011 Episode 16, Part 2, 9/8/2011 Episode 25, Part 3, 2/8/2012

The same thing recently happened to me with my lipid profile. If you're losing weight on the paleo diet then your lipid profile is not going to be static because fat is being released into your blood. Take a listen. It is quite educational.

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 09:46 PM

Loading them up now. ThankYou!

0
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on April 23, 2012
at 06:55 PM

Molly,

From what is currently understood, you have very healthy ratios. In my opinion, you cannot gather anything from your numbers that should cause you to worry.

In fact, I think your numbers may have improved, with HDL rising to 64, trigs lowering to 79, and LDL settling in at 111.

Remember that your body will produce cholesterol as needed. That includes LDL particles. And it appears as if that is exactly what is happening based on your changes in diet. Nothing to worry about. Also, being female, these figures are probably even less important for you than for men.

:)

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 08:55 PM

Jack, Thanks for the input. These changes took place over three months. Has it been long enough to assume that without any more dietary changes these numbers are my new baseline or should I expect more changes over the next few months?

0
Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

on April 23, 2012
at 04:08 PM

There's also a big question about where that LDL number comes from. Forget 3 months of radical diet changes (how long would you expect it take for an impact anyhow, your body is practically rebuilt after 3 months), you could get a change in that LDL figure in a few hours just by going to a different doctor. Certainly doesn't sound like you need to start worrying yet. Still, if the worst that could happen is that you do a bit more exercise to keep the doctor happy then I wouldn't worry either way.

0
E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 03:59 PM

Here's a link to my post a few weeks ago on my diet. Before I switched to Paleo, my weight was 150, and I ate an 80/20 whole foods diet (whole grains, lentils, fat free dairy, whole grain bread, hard cheeses, homemade semolina pasta, veggies, fish, and lean red meat followed .by more wine than I needed) My 20% was occasional takeout and sweets. My exercise has stayed about the same.

http://paleohacks.com/questions/108541/peer-review-my-diet-for-improvement#axzz1ssIToVzD

0
F073d12dfefefca33a08037ad23ee8a6

(20)

on April 23, 2012
at 03:47 PM

My doctor keeps pushing for statins and feels there is very little chance that the numbers will budge enough from diet/exercise alone.

So far I've been able to fend this off by citing concerns about the ongoing longitudinal trends demonstrating the dangerous (and sometimes, irreversible) side effects of these drugs. When you take these into account the cost/benefit ratio becomes much less convincing.

If I don't continue to "win" this argument I'll look for another doctor!

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 08:59 PM

I'm not even remotely willing to consider statins. I'm just going to stay positive and pretend I can switch her to Paleo. Good luck with your doctor.

0
2d58c4968798bf56fe7509f254c68ce3

(169)

on April 23, 2012
at 03:27 PM

Molly, we really need more information about your diet and cholesterol history. When I started paleo, my cholesterol was 150 LDL 180 HDL. After four months of semi-strick, often cheating, my count is 122 LDL 200 HDL.

Cholesterol is produced by the body to protect the arteries from the damaging affects of sugar in the blood. My question is, why does your doc want it THAT low?

E55906cdb6839a23fd740ad85d160cc8

(1159)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:03 PM

I just posted a link to my current diet...That's my question too. I'm not obese and have no health problems except for the occasional migraine. I'm also not trying to conceive. I don't know why it needs to be 70.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:04 PM

Cholesterol confuses me.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on April 23, 2012
at 04:03 PM

If that is truly why cholesterol is produced, then why do low carbers have high HDL?

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