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A couple of questions regarding ratios, calories and LDL's.....

Answered on March 28, 2014
Created March 28, 2014 at 12:33 AM

I know there are several hundred threads related to LDL but I am going to ask for specific advice....I have had my blood tested 2x since starting Paleo....the first time 10 days into the journey my Total Cholesterol was 249...LDL's were 152...six weeks into Paleo my Total Cholesterol was 230 and LDL's were 157. My HDL's were 55 first time and 61 second time. Worthy to note that my Total Cholesterol has always been under 200 around 190 for years prior to starting Paleo. My LDL's were usually between 106-113. The diet has definitely increased this level. Although my ratio is 3.8 my doctor is going to suggest going on meds, which I will politely refuse. However at the same time, I would like to try and lower these numbers....I have read that if I cut out butter this might help... I am going to cut back on whole eggs to about 3 per week and eat more egg whites say 16 egg whites per week. I usually eat around a total of 20 oz of turkey, or chicken, or salmon per day, (20 oz combination of all 3 - my have10 oz of chicken for lunch and 10 oz of salmon for dinner)with a hefty salad with 1 tbsp oil and 1.5 tbsp of balsamic vinegar. I also started eating 1 avocado a day.... So can anyone see anything that I might need to change in order to lower my LDL? Secondly, recently I have been eating 2 meals per day. Some days I will eat 5 strips of bacon with 4 egg whites and then I will have 10 oz of meat at dinner with a cup of broccoli and a salad...and I will try and eat 1 avocado per day. My calorie consumption is always under 1750 per day...lately it has been around 1200-1300. I am 262 lbs and workout 4-5 days per week. Seems like my calorie intake is pretty low but to be honest I am not really hungry. Is there a problem eating too few calories? my ratios tend to be 35-40% Fat, 10-15% Carbs and 50-60% Protein.......do you suggest I make any changes? if so, what types of food would you eat that wont raise my LDL's? Thanks In Advance, BB

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on March 28, 2014
at 04:22 PM

Salmon is great, as is all seafood so I applaud you on that decision. If you were putting Kerrygold butter (palmitic acid is the predominant fatty acid in butter), replacing that butter with olive oil (oleic acid is the predominant fatty acid in olive oil) will likey result in a better lipid profile without making you feel like you're giving something up. You'll still be satisfied and be able to enjoy delicious food while improving your HDL and lowering your LDL. In place of olive oil, you may also use avocado, macadamia, almond, or hazelnut oils. They are also great for making paleo mayo.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on March 28, 2014
at 04:18 PM

I would say that 100g of protein is more than sufficient and you would not feel deprived by any means. The 24oz (1.5 pound) turkey breast does confirm my suspicions that you are definitely eating a lot of lean meat (which is largely protein). Don't cut back on your calories, that'll make you hungrier and feel deprived, just choose more veggies and healthy fats or fattier cuts of meat in place of excessive quantities of lean protein (like chicken thighs instead of breast for example, or pork ribs instead of pork loin). You'll still be satisfied and won't feel deprived.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2014
at 04:16 PM

We had a code of conduct that was supposed to protect us from managerial attitudes like this. But what can you do? When you realize that's worse than 2 packs a day of cigarettes you have to leave the toxic environment. Better to retire early than to get fired. Or dead.

8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

(15)

on March 28, 2014
at 03:42 PM

@TheGastronomer one other thing, I am going to try and eat salmon 3x per week for dinner. Cut back substantially on the amount of butter I use. I was putting Kerrygold on all my meat and veggies. The other 4 days I will try and eat lean meats, including one day of red meat. Do you think this will help? Thanks BB

8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

(15)

on March 28, 2014
at 03:39 PM

@TheGastronomer Interestingly enough I went back and looked at where all my protein came from yesterday...I had 24oz of Harvestland Turkey breast! Not the colcut but the natural, no antibiotics, etc whole meat breast. Also got 1gram from a half a bag of salad that I ate...How many grams of protein would you recommend I eat while focusing on weight loss and trying to reduce my LDL number. Thanks for taking the time to comment. BB

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on March 28, 2014
at 03:38 PM

That's kind of ironic actually. When I try to lower my protein I usually just eat eggs since eggs are quite low in protein. One egg only has 6g of protein so if all you ate was a dozen and a half (18) eggs in one day you'd only consume 108 grams of protein, which is still way less than what you are eating. I've never met anyone who ate these many eggs in my entire life, and I doubt you would, so even if all you ate was eggs, you'd still be reducing protein by a lot. It's not the eggs that are making your protein intake so high, it's something else. Most likely the leaner cuts of meats.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2014
at 02:41 PM

The one thing I noticed as a serious negative effect from job stress was high systolic blood pressure. 2 years ago I got assigned to a heart-attack inducing boss, and my systolic went up from 120 resting to 150 resting. That model I shared is valuable to predict what this was doing, and I went to the doctor right away. Two days later I was floating in to work in a zoloft haze....but the drug did not resolve the problem the way retirement did...I'm not going to let a job kill me.

8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

(15)

on March 28, 2014
at 01:58 PM

I know that i consumed way too many calories yesterday but I really wasnt that hungry...here is what I am gettibg from MYFITNESS PAL after tracking my food for the day.....I ate 1186 calories my rations were 151 Protein, 56 Fat and 26 Carbs....all suggestions are welcome...Today I am going to ahve some bacon but easy on the eggs since I will try and lower my protein...any thoughts?

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on March 28, 2014
at 01:22 PM

I was looking at the grams not the ratio, it was from the ratio that I calculated the grams. Upon finding that the range of protein consumption for the OP is 150g to 195g I figured that was a bit too much, and might not be desirable in someone who is trying to improve their lipid profile. I see nothing wrong with replacing some of the protein (which is clearly excessive) with some non-starchy veggies and healthy fat, specially since monounsaturated fats improve lipid profile by raising HDL and lowering LDL.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 01:02 PM

A 50% protein macro at 1200 kcal drops under 25% if their body is receiving 2500kcal worth of energy from burning body fat to meet daily requirements plus the additional energy needed for frequent exercise. At just 2 meals with a large (but not extra large) serving of protein, OP might be fine for the moment, unless they maintain that ratio up to 1750 calories with a 3rd large serving of protein.

Although, protein restriction does seem to have benefits (maybe) if you can get it down. At 20oz of ribeye/d, that comes out to ~120g protein which is ideal for nitrogen balance.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 12:19 PM

Absolutely 100% if you have palpitations. Of course, talk with your cardiologist about it, but I've only read positive things and would probably go out and get some tomorrow if it was me. There are a bunch of different forms that are absorbed in slightly different ways. Chelated Mg Glycinate is a good one, and Mg Citrate another good one. 200mg a day would be fine (as per perfect health diet supplement recommendations), but I would bet you could take more and benefit from it.

In addition, you might want to check out epsom salt baths. (Magnesium sulfate.)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 12:05 PM

Nice! Have you taken any magnesium supplements? I had an arrhythmia issue going into this diet from decades of poor nutrition / stress and that actually cleared mine up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9064958 (research mode).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9070556

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on March 28, 2014
at 07:33 AM

were you losing weight (fat) before paleo?

my doc told me that ones weight needs to be stable to get 'true' cholesterol readings. don't know if that's true or not...i never bothered to 'google research' it

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 07:13 AM

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on March 28, 2014
at 01:11 AM

if you are giving up egg yolks, why bother eating the whites? are you after extra protein

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10 Answers

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0
F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on March 28, 2014
at 06:57 AM

How tall are you? What was your starting weight? How much have you lost? Have you lost any inches on your waist?

Are you sure cholesterol numbers really matter for anything? Are cholesterol numbers very meaningful during periods of caloric restriction & fat loss? How much impact does ingested cholesterol have on ones numbers? Sounds like you;re eating similar to Atkins "induction".

If you;re up for it, here's a link to the first 'article' of a series of eight weighty ones subject.

http://eatingacademy.com/cholesterol-2/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-i

Written by this guy...

http://eatingacademy.com/dr-peter-attia

Don't swallow the conventional wisdom w/o doing some investigation...CW wants 20%+ of the US population on statins.

Finally chechout this

http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 07:13 AM

0
8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

on March 28, 2014
at 05:04 PM

@TheGastronomer @BobK @thhq

This is all great feedback. Exactly what I needed to hear...So for example I just had my forst meal of the day...a salad...this is what I included:

1 whole egg

1/2 bag romaine salad

3 teaspoons of raw blanched almonds

2 tbsp light olive oil

1.5 tbsp balsamic vinegar

1 avocado

7 grape tomatos

1 can of tuna

this amounted to 908 calories which is fine because I will only eat 1 more time today. my ratio for this meal is: fat 47% (58g), Carbs 20% (25g) and Protein 33% (40g)....How does this look? better? the only concern I have is when I start eating salmon and additional olive oil they will use up a lot of calories, no?

0
Medium avatar

(238)

on March 28, 2014
at 04:28 PM

BobK answer (Best Answer) is perfect.

I remember my last cholesterol test, numbers like TC jumped up and had the doc scratching his head. He didn't really know what to do with an older patient who lost a lot of weight and had numbers that didn't fit the classical range that they wanted to see. My Triglycerides & HDL were perfect, the ratios were fine so he did what a good doctor should - he retired shortly after seeing me. LOL

I don't trust the entire science of Cholesterol. It is still a pure work in progress.

0
7160a3fb485cb0af573c0292fdb08144

on March 28, 2014
at 04:07 PM

I would strongly advise you NOT to eat egg whites. Eat the whole egg, or don't eat eggs at all. Eating just egg whites as a staple to your diet is dangerous.

0
8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

on March 28, 2014
at 03:23 PM

@thhq funny, small world...my heart went into Chronic AFIb 3x in 10 years! All 3x at work while under stress. I was forced to retire at the age of 43...it was either walk away from a high salaried job or maybe not be so lucky. Doctor put me on some SSID which lasted less than a month - never could get used to that crap...I did have some bad run ins with anxiety and panic attacks which during extreme cases I would pop a xanax which would render me useless. I need to use caution when exercising, I use a heart rate monitor which helps me keep me HR under a dangerous level. Im hoping to get this weight thing under control now, but need to also keeo the LDL thing in check. Thanks for your input. BB

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2014
at 04:16 PM

We had a code of conduct that was supposed to protect us from managerial attitudes like this. But what can you do? When you realize that's worse than 2 packs a day of cigarettes you have to leave the toxic environment. Better to retire early than to get fired. Or dead.

0
Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on March 28, 2014
at 12:44 PM

This caught my eye: "...and 50-60% Protein...". So that comes out to a range of 150g up to 195g of protein. That is an insane amount of protein. If the numbers truly are accurate, I would advise against consuming this much protein. Try shifting away from protein a bit and going more for veggies and healthy fats, for example: a greek salad with olive oil, nuts (almonds, macadamias, hazelnuts), roasted veggies (I like brussel sprouts and carrots) with plenty of olive oil and a dash of sea salt and balsamic vinegar, etc. I'm not saying you should go vegan here by any means, you should still have your meats, seafood, and eggs. All I am saying is try getting more of the calories from monounsaturated fat and non-starchy veggies. Best of luck and congrats on your progress thus far :)

8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

(15)

on March 28, 2014
at 01:58 PM

I know that i consumed way too many calories yesterday but I really wasnt that hungry...here is what I am gettibg from MYFITNESS PAL after tracking my food for the day.....I ate 1186 calories my rations were 151 Protein, 56 Fat and 26 Carbs....all suggestions are welcome...Today I am going to ahve some bacon but easy on the eggs since I will try and lower my protein...any thoughts?

8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

(15)

on March 28, 2014
at 03:39 PM

@TheGastronomer Interestingly enough I went back and looked at where all my protein came from yesterday...I had 24oz of Harvestland Turkey breast! Not the colcut but the natural, no antibiotics, etc whole meat breast. Also got 1gram from a half a bag of salad that I ate...How many grams of protein would you recommend I eat while focusing on weight loss and trying to reduce my LDL number. Thanks for taking the time to comment. BB

8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

(15)

on March 28, 2014
at 03:42 PM

@TheGastronomer one other thing, I am going to try and eat salmon 3x per week for dinner. Cut back substantially on the amount of butter I use. I was putting Kerrygold on all my meat and veggies. The other 4 days I will try and eat lean meats, including one day of red meat. Do you think this will help? Thanks BB

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 01:02 PM

A 50% protein macro at 1200 kcal drops under 25% if their body is receiving 2500kcal worth of energy from burning body fat to meet daily requirements plus the additional energy needed for frequent exercise. At just 2 meals with a large (but not extra large) serving of protein, OP might be fine for the moment, unless they maintain that ratio up to 1750 calories with a 3rd large serving of protein.

Although, protein restriction does seem to have benefits (maybe) if you can get it down. At 20oz of ribeye/d, that comes out to ~120g protein which is ideal for nitrogen balance.

0
8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

on March 28, 2014
at 12:13 PM

@paleot Thanks, no I have not taken any supplements. Is the magnesium something you would recommend? same thing here with heart - 3 ablations for AFIB....had a stressful job, still get flutter but since retiring 4 years ago my heart has stayed in sinus rhythm. I have noticed that my anxiety/panic attacks have decreased over the last 6 months....always a good thing.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 12:19 PM

Absolutely 100% if you have palpitations. Of course, talk with your cardiologist about it, but I've only read positive things and would probably go out and get some tomorrow if it was me. There are a bunch of different forms that are absorbed in slightly different ways. Chelated Mg Glycinate is a good one, and Mg Citrate another good one. 200mg a day would be fine (as per perfect health diet supplement recommendations), but I would bet you could take more and benefit from it.

In addition, you might want to check out epsom salt baths. (Magnesium sulfate.)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2014
at 02:41 PM

The one thing I noticed as a serious negative effect from job stress was high systolic blood pressure. 2 years ago I got assigned to a heart-attack inducing boss, and my systolic went up from 120 resting to 150 resting. That model I shared is valuable to predict what this was doing, and I went to the doctor right away. Two days later I was floating in to work in a zoloft haze....but the drug did not resolve the problem the way retirement did...I'm not going to let a job kill me.

0
8b316c06f6a60bb5adab4e3c62d9bed8

on March 28, 2014
at 11:56 AM

@paleot @BobK Thanks for the response...there is no doubt that I had been losing weight. I've lost probably 25+ lbs since starting to eat Paleo style in January. I lost another 15 in Nov and December with exercise and calorie deficit...so altogether I've lost probably 40-lbs in 6+ months...I was 304 when I started, I am 6' 2. My ideal weight would be 225-230. Down around 4 inches on waist...Based on the fact that I have an arrhythmia problem with my heart I would like to try and keep my cholesterol down if possible. At the same time and probably of equal importance I need to keep my weight down, so what Im trying to find here is the perfect balance of cholesterol&weight loss....and eventually maintenance of weight and cholesterol!

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 12:05 PM

Nice! Have you taken any magnesium supplements? I had an arrhythmia issue going into this diet from decades of poor nutrition / stress and that actually cleared mine up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9064958 (research mode).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9070556

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2014
at 11:43 AM

Run your numbers through this and assess your CV risk

http://cvdrisk.nhlbi.nih.gov/calculator.asp

Lately the medical community has moved in this direction. If you play with the TC numbers, you'll see what happens if you take a statin, which typically reduces TC by 40-50 points.

In my personal experience playing around with the dietary factors hasn't been all that helpful. Low calorie, low fat, high fat, exercise, weight loss: zip effect. I had hopes for high fiber and pectin, but in both of my N=1 experiments LDL was higher, and all my extra farting was for nothing. Your mileage may vary however...knock yourself out...

The one thing that the model makes clear is that higher HDL and lower systolic blood pressure lower your risk. I found that more exercise helps with both - far more than diet.

0
Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on March 28, 2014
at 04:26 AM

The calories seem low and the protein seems pretty high, but I suppose if you count the fat you're burning toward the macros and daily calories, it looks closer to a balanced high fat low carb diet.

What is your ideal weight? It seems like once you're closer to that number, your other metrics would improve. At that extreme of a calorie deficit, you should be well on your way

Vegetables / beans / nuts / seeds should be fine for your LDL.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18937894

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19939654

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18356332

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22027055

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682928/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7585302

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23456579

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17158408

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18598583

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19534625

As your diet seems to be high in animal meat, it would probably help to keep this mostly organic grass-fed to maintain an ideal omega-3 balance.

You might want to look more into supplements / nutrients / meal timing:

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/03/answer-day-what-causes-high-ldl-on-low-carb-paleo/

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-did-my-cholesterol-go-up-after-going-primal/

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