13

votes

CarbSane's post about NEFA - Conversation with Stephan Guyenet and Dr Kurt Harris

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 08, 2011 at 6:07 PM

Another thread lead me to the 'argument' discussion between CarbSane and Stephan Guyenet / Dr Harris.

If you haven't had a chance to see it, I'd recommend taking the time.

CarbSane - NEFA discussion

Not sure what's up with the text/background choice. It's unimaginably distracting. I just did a "Control A" on the whole page to highlight the background full blue and make the words white. Easier to read.

Anyway CarbSane seems to push the notion that too much NEFA and VLC could cause tachycardia and other vascular related issues. Kurt and Stephan give their responses and it's pretty fascinating to read through.

To provide a little background (incase Dr Harris sees this! - here's hoping). For those that already know all this... feel free to skip this part.


Of course, I come at this from my perspective that somehow, something in my diet is causing me problems, given my VAP numbers, and even more so, the persistent unsettling feeling I've had in my chest since going VLC last year. Sometimes I feel like the bloodflow around my heart is restricted, and it's actually painful every now and then. Sometimes my heart seems to "sink" for a second, like it took a "gulp". It's very strange. It's not constant, and is worse at times and better other times. I've also noticed it's completely absent after a good weight lifting session.

Doc already performed EKG at my insistence. Also xrays and blood test. Everything "checked out good." Docs say I need Lipitor and low fat whole grain diet. They really don't offer me any help beyond that so "Go see a Doctor" is almost pointless for me.

Around December, I settled into a Lacto-Starcho-Paleo type diet, based on everything I had learned from my favorite health bloggers. Since then, I have been eating approx 50F/30C/20P. Most of my fat is saturated and some mono with the least being pufa. Here is what it looked like Dec 2010-June 2011.

FATS: healthy beef (usually GF), bacon, pure heavy cream, pasture butter, hard cheeses, GF ghee, avocado, coconut oil, wild sockeye salmon, mac nuts, pecans, almonds.

CARBS: sweet potatoes, potatoes, white rice, berries, bananas, dried figs.

PROTEIN: Pastured Eggs (about a dozen per week), meats, pure whey protein isolate. (heavy lifting 3-5x per wk).


Changes I've made since July 8:

Eliminated bananas, figs, and nuts completely.

Eliminated Creatine completely (last week)

Eliminated Coconut Oil and caffeine completely (last week - to see if I am having a reaction to these)

Reduced heavy cream and butter intake by more than 50% (to reduce sat fat intake)

I want to make it clear that I am not asking for medical advice here. I am asking what you all think of the discussion in the link in the context of someone who eats Paleo but has to adjust because of the issues mentioned. I give you my 'story' here only to give you context of why I am asking because some of the things discussed could be important to understanding this puzzle.

Glucose is discussed heavily here as well, and I am having a hard time making out what is being implied. All three agree that safe starch is good and beneficial, yet some notes in there seem to implicate that high glucose coupled with high fat intake could be dangerous, even in slim and fit people. Of course, this has my attention because I eat about 25% safe starch in my diet.

Could CarbSane be correct that a VLC carb high in fats might be responsible for vascular issues and dangerous heart conditions as discussed? Or are Dr Harris and Stephan more correct in saying that elevated NEFA couldn't possibly cause sudden cardiac death?

Where do PaleoHackers stand on this? Also, If Kurt Harris gets wind of this question, I would LOVE!!! to hear his take on this outside the space of CarbSane 'arguing' with him.

0cda75709f5767493b5ab6bf35c26925

on June 04, 2014
at 10:02 PM

"You could do the mirror test: Look in the mirror, is you fat? If yes then stoppit." Loved it.

0cda75709f5767493b5ab6bf35c26925

on June 04, 2014
at 10:00 PM

Yup, same with me!

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on August 10, 2011
at 02:15 PM

Citrate and Malate are well absorbed and are the best "bang for the buck". For those who can't tolerate either, there is a chelated, time released form (Mg dimalate) available from Jigsaw. Ungodly expensive but if nothing else is tolerable at needed levels, then it's worth it. @Travis and @Jack - potassium and magnesium are much more likely to be deficienct than sodium or calcium. And only in the case of *extreme* deficiencies of those two would there be an issue. Pursue K and Mg.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:13 PM

@Kamal: Thank you! The highlighting and such in this post is uncharacteristic for me so perhaps it bothered Jack. The background/text being unimaginably distracting puzzled me a bit. The body of blog posts are dark grey easy to read sized Trebuchet font on white. I went for personalizing the site rather than bland and dark. Glad you appreciate that :)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 12:46 PM

P.S. that ref only did Mg citrate to MgO, I can't find the other one at the moment that compared bioavailability vs. several other forms. For the buck, the citrate seems to be the best value.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 12:39 PM

@Jack: Mg citrate is the best (aside from a rather expensive complexed form of some sort that I can't recall off the top of my head at the moment). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2407766 MgO is the form in many supps and it's poor absorption is likely the cause of it's laxative effect. Many VLC'ers take this for regularity.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 10, 2011
at 03:41 AM

If you want to read mockery that is actually entertaining and funny, I recommend Matt Stone. Although for vitriol he's a bit of a dilettante by comparison. But if you just want to feel schadenfreude, then CS is your place, I suppose.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 10, 2011
at 03:37 AM

@Gavin Well, hello again, Gavin. There are plenty of blogs that disagree publicly with Taubes' low carb theories, including mine, Ned Kock's, Stephan's, Paul Jaminet's Chris Kresser's, Melissa's Chris Masterjohn's and others. None of us have the ad hominen attack as a prominent feature. You could read only these blogs and lose nothing but the spectacle by avoiding carbsane. If you think vitriol, name-calling and accusations of nefarious motive is necessary to advance your cause and change minds, then fine. Maybe you only change your mind when insulted. I know it doesn't work for me.

A0da3a39ea8c5e3bb42fb48ed50c2602

(-16)

on August 10, 2011
at 02:54 AM

A 'hate blog'? I think the perpetually petulant/angry one has more than outed themselves. As for CarbSane's exposure of low-carb celebs for the phonies they usually are, she's simply the one who's had the courage to tell the emperor he's got no clothes - which, I suppose, would technically render her site a hate blog. If you're the emperor.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on August 10, 2011
at 02:51 AM

CS, yes I did. And on Hyperlipid too. And my comment still stands.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:44 AM

No Kurt. For you I never tire LOL

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:43 AM

@Beth: Did you read what Kurt wrote in the comments on my blog?

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:42 AM

FWIW Jack, Terry may be onto something about thyroid. Check out Perfect Health Diet for "Mario" he wrote a guest blog and he's commented on mine that this might be part of my issue as well. That selenium has apparently cured my occasional (more like streaky) insomnia makes me think he's onto something.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on August 10, 2011
at 02:36 AM

CS, as a reader of both blogs (yours and KGH's) I think you have a bit of a blind eye towards your own writing style.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 10, 2011
at 02:30 AM

Evelyn, don't you get tired of being so angry?

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on August 10, 2011
at 02:25 AM

Jack, Anthony Colpo recently posted re reducing blood levels; may be worth a look re IP6 given your feelings re giving blood: http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=1792

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 02:17 AM

@Aravind it is unethical to diagnose people on the internet :)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:16 AM

@Kurt: I followed you here? Huh? Where on earth did you come up with that fantasy? I followed blogger traffic stats here.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:13 AM

Gee Emily, where was I being vicious? I really don't care if you read, tweet or whatever as regards my blog. I'm not Paleo but I am low carb but I don't buy the carb/insulin nonsense. Aravind is not worth the effort to type out a response. I do believe KGH had some good advice for you.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:04 AM

@Melissa: carbsane, are you sun-burned in the pics on your site where you have red skin? Yes a bit, but I think it might also be the camera in some cases too. I have olive skin and get tan quickly and rarely truly burn. I think I do have reverse racoon eyes in one of the pics b/c the one place I do use sunscreen is around my eyes. I do not have red skin or a puffy Kruse-plexion going on, that's for sure! Sarah-ann might be on to something ;)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 01:57 AM

Kurt I didn't mock any of you three. Speak for yourself as well. Stephan is more than capable of speaking for himself and has added some nice discussions to my blog. Of course PH is not all about me but in case you didn't notice, this thread is in part. Pony up to where I was hostile to you first Kurt. It's all there for everyone to see on my blog where you took the conversations south. I'm only glad you left before driving my readers off with your "I'm a doctor and I'm smarter than you" act. Save it for your blog.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 10, 2011
at 12:30 AM

There is still a great post on narcissism for you. I do stand by that!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 10, 2011
at 12:26 AM

Well she is posting here and she eats low carb. But your point is well taken - she has chosen to alienate herself from ALL communities so I guess she is an island unto herself. I stand corrected :-)

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 12:20 AM

@Aravind - is Carbsane part of the paleo/low carb community?

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 12:20 AM

One more thing, CS - I've tweeted your posts a few times because I thought some of them had funny or informative comments. I see now that was a mistake.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 10, 2011
at 12:17 AM

Dr Deans in da house - awesome. Maybe you could do a post on narcissism in the Paleo/low carb community with Carbsane as your case study

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 12:10 AM

Wow, Carbsane - you can be quite vicious. I'm sorry to see it.

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 12:04 AM

CS - I have to say I rarely read your blog, despite some interesting info, in part due to the tone. The bitterness is distracting and makes me more curious about your intent and what floats your boat than about the factual information. I wish you would take a more constructive bent. In fact, every time I see your name in a comment on some other blog post, I wince a little, waiting for the barb. If that's who you want to be and your style, fine. If it's not, well...

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 09, 2011
at 11:16 PM

Thanks for the clarification Dr H

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 11:02 PM

Aravind- I have other real enterprises (as in, income-producing) and interests that require or capture my attention. It really is that simple. Sometimes a hobby blog has to go by the wayside for a while. But I got rid of television about 6 months ago and I find that combined with not doing much on the internet it has really been a breath of fresh air to spend more time in the actual physical world as opposed to this virtual one.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 10:58 PM

I welcome anyone to read everything I wrote and decide for themselves, Evelyn. Just keep up the name-calling, by all means. You followed me here, remember? You started the name-calling first, as you always do and always will.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 09, 2011
at 10:49 PM

@KGH - may I be so bold as to ask you what specifically led you to withdrawing from the Internet. I'm not asking why you are not blogging of late to be clear. I am trying to relate this to the hyper stimulating environment we are in, of which Food Reward is but one example. Just looking for some deeper insights on your comment above to me. Thanks!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 09, 2011
at 09:40 PM

Calling you names? You didn't act like a right prig on my blog? Yeah. It's there for folks to see. Your response to a mild comment here? To make inferences about mental illness. Nice Kurt. KGH said "You insulted me first and you know it." Pony up that evidence sir. What next, are you going to stick your tongue out at me and wiggle your fingers in your ears and go "nah nah nah na nah nah"? Sheesh. Why don't you focus on writing on your own blog for a change of pace rather than harassing me.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 07:27 PM

"Folks were trashing me, including Kurt, on Peter's blog and when I comment I get accused of spamming Now Evelyn, who is the liar? You mocked Peter. Yo mocked me. You mocked Stephan and the Doctor he was quoting. MANY responded to you the way I and Peter and Travis did. Stephan did not, so you think he is your friend, but he was just avoiding your anger, not approving of it. You were hostile first, as you always are. As you were here today. Paleohacks and the internet are not all about you. Why not take a break from blogging for a while and see how the world still revolves without you?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 09, 2011
at 06:45 PM

*"If you come to my table with your hat in your hand, you will be greeted with the same. You come to my table with a sword, you will find out you are at a warrior's table."* I am not saying that's always a bad thing, but I believe this is why people respect Stephan Guyenet so much. Not everybody can be like that and that's ok, but you would do well to at least recognize the reality instead of fighting it.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 09, 2011
at 06:42 PM

CS - You respond to people as you so choose. You are seeing the downstream effect of that unfold. Period. YOU can change that, but you choose to fuel. Go for it. I'd be willing to bet that your close friends and family that know you would have your back and say that you are a very nice person in life. Why not harness that side of you a little more... if you want to, of course.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 09, 2011
at 06:03 PM

And by the way, if you don't know me and am not familiar with my work, WTF are you linking to it?

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 09, 2011
at 06:01 PM

I don't get you folks here. Discuss and insult me but if I join the conversation I'm raining on someone's parade? You want to hear Kurt on NEFA outside my website? How about he blog on it, or does he consider the topic fluff? He spammed my blog not the other way around. Folks were trashing me, including Kurt, on Peter's blog and when I comment I get accused of spamming. Hint. You don't want someone to contribute here, don't link to their blogs or discuss them. Pretty simple. But to accuse me of posting here to stir the pot is nonsense.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 04:48 PM

You are not just reading. You are calling me names, are you not? Did you not call me an "immature frat boy"? Or did we all just imagine that part? Is this the way you have a dialogue and convince people of your argument? To show up on a forum you've not been to before and insult people gratuitously? Is it your goal to be the most hated person on the internet DESPITE your ideas? You are certainly on the way. YOU calling ME nasty? Are you serious? Have you ever read your own blog? You insulted me first and you know it. Perhaps when you have BPD it's easy not to notice these things, I guess.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 04:29 PM

Insulting me when I did not insult you is "chiming in"? Jack asked: "If Kurt Harris gets wind of this question, I would LOVE!!! to hear his take on this outside the space of CarbSane 'arguing' with him. Jack was specifically requesting my opinion outside the fight ring of your blog and you are tone deaf to his request. He could have posted on your hate blog if he felt like it, though I suspect he may have regretted it. You are "allowed" to chime in. The question is why you would do so when asked not to other than just to irritate people?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 09, 2011
at 01:46 PM

I tell you what... if you want to win me over a little, take the time analyze my question and give me your best shot at what you think might be going on. Contribute to this discussion in a postive manner like the others have done below. If you think you're a leader but nobody's behind you, you're just takin a walk. Win SOMEBODY over CarbSane.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 09, 2011
at 01:43 PM

I don't know you and I am not all that familiar with your work, but I gather that you seem to have a decent platform to work from and agree with most of the things that we support here on PaleoHacks. The thing that is somewhat bewildering, is your choice to irritate people instead of winning them over to your way of thinking (yes, a stolen line from How to Win Friends).

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 09, 2011
at 01:41 PM

Where I think you go wrong is that you don't listen to any of the voices present here. Is everyone here wrong about you? We all just HAPPEN to misinterpret your intent? and the manner by which you deliver it? Look at how little support you are getting here? You don't care? You don't give a rip? Well I think that's a real shame. It doesn't have to be that way. That's what many of the comments below talk about.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 09, 2011
at 01:39 PM

CarbSane - I think it's more like... most people here think you're out of line because you seem to have chimed in only to stir up more trouble. I did not choose a side in my question. I did that on purpose for neutrality toward the content so I can be open to answers from both sides of the argument.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 09, 2011
at 01:25 PM

WOW. Kurt Harris thinks that I'm out of line for chiming in on a thread about my blog. {{ shakes head }}

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 09, 2011
at 01:19 PM

Gee Kurt. What am I doing here? Well, pardon me for reading what is being discussed about me. It wasn't enough for you to devolve into spamming my blog, but you had to try to shout me down on other blogs. It was your poor behavior that caused me to have to put comment moderation on, you kept them coming despite my citing that I had family issues I was trying to deal with so to repost your nasty comments took a bit of time. Don't get all blown out of your own importance Doc. You don't own the internet. Don't like the fact that I comment on a few of the blogs you read? Ignore me!

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on August 09, 2011
at 04:39 AM

The needle is big, I'd guess 3 times the size of the normal needle. Took about 5 min, but no difference outside of that.

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on August 09, 2011
at 04:26 AM

Jack, I just had my first scheduled phlebotomy today (Thanks to CMJ and Melissa for this), in an attempt to reduce my ferritin levels. I also have been supplementing Copper, and the rest of the PHD supps for the past month. I'll update when I get my labs back next month. Great question, +1

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 09, 2011
at 04:13 AM

He just doesn't seem to think that low carb is a problem here, that it will cause such a serious heart problem.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 09, 2011
at 01:43 AM

@KGH - The crack addiction is difficult to give up but it doesn't make the crack good for you, I know. You do realize that all this energy here is because of the impact you've had on people...certainly me. Thanks for all you done. Now let me turn some Hey Joe and jam out to it.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 01:40 AM

@Aravind Learn by my example. Take some time off from the internets to attend to real life. There is more to life than diet, blogs and commenting and reading on blogs and forums. I am not posting because I am not reading much relevant to post about right now, and I hate producing fluff when I'm not inspired. And I'm not obsessively glued to my computer the way it's so easy to be when you've only been blogging a year or so. I'll be back at some point whether you want me or not. Not dead yet. Not vegan.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 09, 2011
at 12:45 AM

@KGH - I posted here on PH recently that you were pulling a Jimi Hendrix. Hits the scene and takes everyone by storm. Redefines a genre. And then poof - gone. Please come back to life...or at least talk to us like Obi-wan to Luke and teach us the ways of the force. Our training is not complete!!!

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 12:20 AM

It't too bad they give out lances for free these days..

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 09, 2011
at 12:07 AM

We're all just windmills at which she tilts.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 09, 2011
at 12:06 AM

We're all just windmills being tilted at.

Aeec781cc234fcae119d4a71532058f5

(2047)

on August 08, 2011
at 11:52 PM

@Jack...wow, you've opened quite the can of worms with this question! I've completely ignored my family for the last hour so I could keep up with this! I wish I could upvote you several times for starting something that brought Dr. Harris out!

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:51 PM

Unfortunately, it is not possible for me to discuss this here as "Carbsane" has now showed up and is determined to turn paleohacks into a facsimile of her own blog by starting a name-calling festival. This is what is known as the tragedy of the commons. Make something free and people will show up just to ruin it. It is one reason I spend little time on the internet these days.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:39 PM

@Travis - Carbsane is so polarizing that you and I are now on the same side : )

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:37 PM

I trolled you? You spammed my favorite blogs - ones I've been reading every day for 4 years - long before you were on the scene -attacking the authors and anyone else with whom you disagreed with your sneering derision. I merely gave you your own medicine a few times. Try counting the number of blog posts I did about you or the number of times I've mentioned you on my blog - ZERO. Who is trolling who? And what are you doing here at paleohacks with folks who think there might be more to talk about than how evil and stupid low carb advocates are?

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:26 PM

@Evelyn - I wonder, are you even capable of typing without proferring an insult? I am not going to insult you back as that is precisely what you crave and hatred and mockery seems to be the oxygen your blog runs on. It's amazing to me the degree of animosity you have towards someone who agrees with you on so many points of dietary science - me. As Aravind has pointed out along with many others, you could have had an outstanding blog by just sticking to the science and not playing a "the friend of my enemy is my enemy" script. What a shame.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:12 PM

When I was in medical school the blood bank got 175 free pints of blood by requiring us all to donate. It's really no big deal. Just tell them to use a large needle so it goes fast...

F3e27fc503b7d792d78718af081adf67

(149)

on August 08, 2011
at 10:19 PM

LOL, the always-mature Carbsane strikes again. Just be happy she doesn't have children. :-)

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 10:06 PM

Well, calcium specifically binds with the minerals in a multi, so you're likely getting less than optimal amounts of each. I try to segregate my supps so as to have less of a blackbox phenomenon. I do 400mg a day of magnesium glycinate or aspartate and haven't suffered any ill effects.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 09:18 PM

Yes Jack ... based on his post here. Avarind: Yes I know. And my reply remains the same.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 09:10 PM

He kept getting magnets stuck to himself.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:52 PM

phosphorus has probably been really high until recently with the bananas and figs. What about just taking a multivitamin. I know that's not what most people here recommend, but wouldn't that be a shotgun approach to possibly fix the problem?

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:49 PM

@CarbSane - I have read your blog. Like so many blogs I don't agree with everything, but I really do think you have something to offer. However, rather than allying with others that clearly have a position of influence, you choose to attack them. Kurt Harris and Peter at Hyperlipid have a lot of clout in this community. Gary Taubes has national recognition whether you like it or not. I am not suggesting you need to compromise what you believe to be right vs wrong but delivery of the message. As a strategic consultant, my 2 cents is that you re-assess your market share and branding strategy.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:47 PM

@CarbSane - I have read your blog. Like so many blogs I don't agree with everything, but I really do think you have something to offer. However, rather than allying with others that clearly have a position of influence, you choose to attack them. Kurt Harris and Peter at Hyperlipid have a lot of clout in this community. Gary Taubes has national recognition whether you like it or not. I am a business man and strategic consultant. My 2 cents is that you re-assess your market share and branding strategy.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:45 PM

Oh it's purely psychological you guys. I could fight a gang of people in a dark alley (or a well lit alley would be fine too), but I get flush faced taking a simple blood test. I have a hard time with being present during baby labor. I witnesses a full broken leg one time and I am the one that turned pale green. I will look into Iron deficiency though :) Melissa - how did Chris know about his mild iron excess?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:44 PM

http://celticcurse.org/

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:43 PM

Thank google :) Sadly I lack an encyclopedic knowledge of your blog.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:41 PM

Thank google :) Unfortunately I lack an encyclopedic knowledge of your blog.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:39 PM

Thank google :)

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:38 PM

@CarbSane - my link was directed "at you", not "for you" to be clear. Secondly, I disagree with Gary Taubes and his carb theory as a causative theory. However, I don't care who you are - to deny the positive influence of Good Calories Bad Calories is laughable. The bad science exposed makes it incredibly valuable irrespective of the ultimate conclusion. You have more than damaged your credibility with the ad hominem attacks on GT. I think GT can be a total dick as demonstrated at AHS, but that does not mean that he is solely motivated by $. You are guilty of the same intransigence that he is.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:34 PM

haha. yah I guess that's true Aravind. Nice call. Ok. Here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/56446/favorite-ahs-speaker/56495#56495

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:32 PM

Na, Cl, K, Ca, Mg(and apparently HPO4 and HCO3) could all be responsible, though I doubt it's the latter two unless your phosphorus intake is somehow really low.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:31 PM

Na, Cl, K, Ca (and apparently HPO4 and HCO3) could all be responsible, though I doubt it's the latter two unless your phosphorus intake is somehow really low.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:30 PM

M - I've never even thought about it. Iron Overload? I just put in another comment below that I sweat a lot, insinuating that I may be losing iron too much. I don't know. Anyway, I will test for anything. Near as I can tell, I need to test for Iron, Magnesium, Copper, ApoE, Thyroid.... anything else. Is there a one stop shop for all this testing?

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:28 PM

@Jack - the difference Jack is that others here might get it since they could relate it to another post

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:28 PM

Oh, that makes a little more sense...up-voted for the nostalgia.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:27 PM

It's really no big deal, I do it every month and a bit. The idea of it is a whole lot worse than the actual experience.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:27 PM

thanks Matthew, haha. I would note that they later ruled out seizures.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:27 PM

Melissa - better promote Matthew to a moderator of your site. He knows it better than you :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:26 PM

Chris just gave blood for the first time in an effort to combat his mild iron overload. I would suggest looking into your iron levels. Even if they are in the high range of "normal" they can affect you.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:25 PM

http://huntgatherlove.com/content/unwelcome-visitor

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:25 PM

wait have you tested your iron levels? gotten tested for genetic markers of iron overload? VERY MUCH worth looking into.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:25 PM

Oh yah good point about sweat. Um. Maybe I am iron deficient actually. I do not short myself on sweating. For one, I live in San Diego, and it's been hot lately. Also I sweat a lot when I workout, of course. Also, I sweat a lot when I lay out at the pool, of course. Also, I sweat when I think about giving blood.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:24 PM

I want to start a parody blog now called Carnsane!

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:24 PM

It's probably booze! Teehee!

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:22 PM

CS, you must wonder why you continue to get this type of reaction whether it's you. I know of lots of bloggers that go against the VLC grain and they don't get the reaction you are alluding to. Ever thought of why that is? Melissa above said something not a million miles from your point just one post above you and she got curiosity and considered opinions instead of ire. Sand down the chip on the shoulder a little and you might actually change someone's mind instead of just preaching to people as embittered sounding as you.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:20 PM

Terry - thanks for your input. Yes I have considered that. I opened another thread about it actually. http://paleohacks.com/questions/54092/can-we-paleohackers-hack-hypothyroidism-long-question#axzz1UTBeQJtJ

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:17 PM

CarbSane - Ok but you posted "Travis, you are hysterical" here on this thread, which is not Peter's blog. It follows that some here would wonder what in the world you are referring to? That would be like me saying "Aravind, you're crazy man" right here in this thread, referring to his comments about the AHS last weekend. That's pretty bizarre.

32123f4f25bdf6a7b70c9c2a719386ed

(396)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:16 PM

I don't know if this is an issue with you or not, but your symptoms sound like there could be a thyroid issue. I have read that very low carb can exacerbate thyroid problems. Your heart can look perfectly fine, but if your thyroid is struggling you might have palpatations and weird rythms that come and go. I have had them where they take your breath away for a second and it seems to take a minute to recover.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:11 PM

carbsane, are you sun-burned in the pics on your site where you have red skin?

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7314)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:10 PM

Care to elaborate?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:10 PM

huh, carbsane, interesting. Cordain is a salt hater and "In these younger normotensive and hypertensive subjects, dietary salt restriction increases resistance to the vasodilating effects of insulin." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8873692

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 08:10 PM

Um ... for those that are not aware, Travis spun a pathetic tale over in the comments on Peter/Hyperlipid's blog. Along with a whole bunch of trash talk. I don't have time to link the post. Google Gourmand Rats and you'll find some real ad hominem crap. Travis, of course is well aware of this. Avarind ... yeah I'm familiar with those types

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:09 PM

The body can remove excess iron through sweat, don't remember where I read that. I'm guessing you sweat a lot. You'll just have to test. I'm trying to work my nerve up to give blood in a few weeks.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:09 PM

And not to keep pimping the human biodiversity angle, but I suspect the ability to handle protein varies quite highly among humans.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:06 PM

I think Loren Cordain is a prime example http://fitfemaleforty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IMG_0776.jpg if you look at pictures of him ten years ago, he just didn't have that complexion

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 08:06 PM

Melissa, I don't think it's excess protein. I have a lovely complexion, and whether it shows in my pics or not, most folks take me for at least 10 usually 15 yrs younger than my age. I eat a far lower fat higher protein version of low carb than these men, and eating more carbs these days has displaced fat and kept protein high. Looks more like vascular insulin resistance to me. Sometimes complexion is genetic as well.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:05 PM

I think it's a very long-term effect. By red-faced I mean their entire skin was red and if you look at pictures of them 10 years ago, they looked normal. Maybe it's a normal effect of aging in some people? Maybe it has nothing to do with protein and has to do with some inflammatory foods in their diet.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:02 PM

@CarbSane - This might help you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:02 PM

Wow. That's very interesting stuff Melissa. You talked about a lot here. The protein part has me curious, as I only take one single scoop of 26g when I work out. I know bodybuilders who take 3-4 times that, at least. Why would some people be able to overload on protein and eat a dozen eggs in one day, but then I would have to eliminate one scoop? I ask not to antagonize your advice. I ask out of being perplexed.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:00 PM

I'm curious what you mean by "red-faced low-carb folks." Is this a literal observation, that their faces were flushed?

2d4ff23c8ce7fb00708fa88ceffd4087

(408)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:59 PM

Although I did find my face was considerably redder when I was low carbing.

2d4ff23c8ce7fb00708fa88ceffd4087

(408)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:58 PM

I hope you have an explanation for red faced high carbers...like myself.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:54 PM

CS - I don't think you meant to put Travis. He didn't really mention much about you here.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:53 PM

CarbSane: Set aside your lunacy for a moment and see that we are likely in complete agreement. I advocate ingesting an amount of starch that matches what I presume to be the amount of glucose the body wants. No more, no less. This is not a controversial point. Relative to the SAD, it is technically "low-carb" but I consider it to be "appropriate carb."

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:52 PM

Even if that's what you think, some things are better left unsaid. Let your arguments stand on their merits.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:51 PM

Yah I just have always been between the fences. One side says your body will produce it via gluconeogenesis, even if you don't eat the glucose. So I figured some starch at least alleviates a big percentage of that versus someone who is strict low carb and still smashes the weights. I suppose I can try more sweet potato/potato and see how I feel.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 07:46 PM

Or eat some carbs? That was one of the more relevant things Kurt added to the conversation. That was HIS solution. And it works!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 07:45 PM

Wow that was quick! Read Kurt's comments. He trolled me about the web after this trying to shout me down as well. Immature frat boy is a mild description of his behavior.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:44 PM

Oh, uh...thanks?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:43 PM

Well, I think there's this somewhat prevalent behavior where someone does a killer leg workout and eat a sweet potato and figures that it should be sufficient, but they're failing to recognize that even if they were bed-ridden, they'd be burning through 5g of liver glycogen an hour. It takes A LOT of (relatively carb-sparse) sweet potato to fuel heavy hypertrophy workouts + replete liver glycogen stores. A 300g sweet potato is only like 45g of carbs.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:43 PM

ROB, I suspect that I eat a low sodium diet, giving my choice of food now compared to what it was, which was often prepped meals by Trader Joes or whatever that had loads of sodium in it. However, since reading some interesting comments from Ray Peat about the importance of salt, I have began sprinkling a little extra. I use pure sea salt, and I use a salted pasture butter, and the bacon I eat has salt, and I always salt my eggs.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:40 PM

Jack, I am going to reiterate what another poster already asked: are you getting enough salt?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:39 PM

I could stab you.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:39 PM

I don't see the part where Kurt Harris went frat boy. The arguments are quite clearly laid out. But your website background is very unique, and welcome to paleohacks!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:38 PM

i think the thought alone of giving blood would raise my cortisol too much, causing my blood pressure to rise along with blood sugar, giving me heart palpatations and chest pain, making my face pale and sickly, thereby causing excessive persperation, which would lead to dehyrdation and sodium deficiency, causing renal failure, and sudden death. Is there any way to lower iron other than giving blood? I really don't like that idea very much.

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:36 PM

CarbSane, why do you always resort to name-calling and bitchiness? It seriously weakens your argument. You might have something interesting to say but the ad-hominem crap just turns me right off.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Every time I have gone in recently, my BP seems fine. One time (and one time only) she did my right arm and it came up like 160/70, but then moments later, my left arm was like 130/85. I remember you mentioning something about Stevia giving you BP issues too, right? I do eat pure stevia regularly. Usually a single serving in my coffee and a single serving in my protein shake. Lately, no coffee though.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:31 PM

Actually either order is fine.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:31 PM

Rose, I asked something along those lines here:http://paleohacks.com/questions/54264/another-vlc-lc-versus-regular-paleo-question#axzz1UOzpO7wZ but now I am thinking that I did not phrase the question properly. What I really want to know is whether VLC is healthy long-term.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:31 PM

I think both just work together to pwn the heart. So give blood, see how you feel, then sup copper, see how that works out.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:28 PM

BladeWieldingProcyon - I have read about this on PHD, and your comment exhange in that article. I can try to supp copper, but what of the excess iron? Are you saying that a deficiency in copper in the face of excess iron is worse than just a deficiency of copper alone?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 07:28 PM

is your blood pressure normal? sounds similar to issues I had.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 07:27 PM

I almost downvoted you because you were actually wondering if CarbSane was right and KGH was wrong. But I figured I already slapped you in the balls by snagging Danielle, so I am taking the high road instead. Seriously, I vehemently disagree with her on this, but KGH responded in the original post so no need to further clarify my position. Peter from Hyperlipid piled on too....awesome!

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:22 PM

Annie, I wonder if that would make a good, specific PH question. It might get all the PHers with strong opinions to really engage in the high-carb/low-carb discussion that The Quilt thinks this "tribe" needs to have. So far, most of the discussion of this topic seems to have been kind of drive-by. It'd be good to have as much evidence out and on the table as possible.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:21 PM

Low blood sugar? Now that could be. My father was hypoglycemic (and quite severely so). But that was his doing. He made very poor choices while managing that. But at least I know that it does run in my blood upline.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:18 PM

Travis - I work out HARD, every.single.time. And I have just switched up my program to 5x a week working only 1-2 muscle groups versus total body workouts 3x /wk. Am I depleted my glycogen tanks all the time? I mean, seriously... I could see this being the case. When I get down I am beat, but it is when I feel my very best. No odd feeling in the chest at all. It's really wonderful. I've tried protein before/after. Can't really notice a difference either way. As for calcium, I was getting my fair share of dairy from several sources, so I do not suspect that I am not getting enough calium.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:13 PM

Thanks for that thread. I am still sooo confused as to whether VLC is safe and healthy for the long run.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:05 PM

oopsie. I forget to mention fish. i eat wild ocean sockeye salmon regularly. we just bought another huge slab of it and cut it up into about 5 or 6 meals. I think my o6 intake at this point is insanely low. I even cut out nuts. My only source of o6 pufa now is bacon and occasionally chicken. As for magnesium, what is the best supp to take? And to Travis, what did you mean by your closing comment above?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:54 PM

It's The Quilt's. I love it too.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:53 PM

Love the mirror test, Stabby. You should patent it.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:47 PM

Quality post. Still laughing as I type this.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:45 PM

Very interesting question and thread. I like the follow up after your posting a while back, jack.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:37 PM

You may be right, but in my experience magnesium intake was held constant while I adjusted those other two variables and they made a difference. I could see a deficiency in any electrolyte being a potential cause however.

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9 Answers

20
531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be

on August 08, 2011
at 06:43 PM

Reading the interchange between Carbsane and Dr. Harris gave me a certain tightness in the chest (and other areas). I plan to address this by taking a long time out from the Internet.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:47 PM

Quality post. Still laughing as I type this.

0cda75709f5767493b5ab6bf35c26925

on June 04, 2014
at 10:00 PM

Yup, same with me!

12
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:45 PM

Jesus Harris is right, carbsane is doing what -some- people like to do and equating a pathological condition with a non-pathological one that is similar in some respects. NEFA become pathologically elevated when either they can't make it into the cells, or they can't properly be metabolized due to impaired skeletal muscle uncoupling protein (UPC3) expression. Stephan has talked about this, it is in his opinion the main reason why leptin resistance often leads to insulin resistance because the build-up of fat in the cells impairs the functioning of the insulin receptors, or maybe it was the glucose transporters, I dunno, either way it's bad and then you get high insulin and glucose, which is the result of the lipotoxicity. It isn't fair to say that people without leptin resistance have lipotoxicity just because their NEFA levels are higher than those not eating as much fat. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15294045 http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/50/suppl_1/S118.full.pdf

It's not about how much there is necessarily but whether it is spilling into tissues like the heart that is the problem. Can it go where it needs to go (mitochondria)? If not it loiters in your heart. You could do the mirror test. 1. Look in the mirror. 2. Is you fat? 3. If yes, then stoppit. If no then I don't think it's when Carnsane is proposing. You look ripped to me.

Jack have you considered the iron excess/copper insufficiency yet? It can certainly happen on LCHF diets and takes a while to normalize itself. I think you should go give some blood and see what that does.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:09 PM

The body can remove excess iron through sweat, don't remember where I read that. I'm guessing you sweat a lot. You'll just have to test. I'm trying to work my nerve up to give blood in a few weeks.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:24 PM

I want to start a parody blog now called Carnsane!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:38 PM

i think the thought alone of giving blood would raise my cortisol too much, causing my blood pressure to rise along with blood sugar, giving me heart palpatations and chest pain, making my face pale and sickly, thereby causing excessive persperation, which would lead to dehyrdation and sodium deficiency, causing renal failure, and sudden death. Is there any way to lower iron other than giving blood? I really don't like that idea very much.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:31 PM

I think both just work together to pwn the heart. So give blood, see how you feel, then sup copper, see how that works out.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:26 PM

Chris just gave blood for the first time in an effort to combat his mild iron overload. I would suggest looking into your iron levels. Even if they are in the high range of "normal" they can affect you.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:28 PM

BladeWieldingProcyon - I have read about this on PHD, and your comment exhange in that article. I can try to supp copper, but what of the excess iron? Are you saying that a deficiency in copper in the face of excess iron is worse than just a deficiency of copper alone?

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:31 PM

Actually either order is fine.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:54 PM

It's The Quilt's. I love it too.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:53 PM

Love the mirror test, Stabby. You should patent it.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:39 PM

I could stab you.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:27 PM

It's really no big deal, I do it every month and a bit. The idea of it is a whole lot worse than the actual experience.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:45 PM

Oh it's purely psychological you guys. I could fight a gang of people in a dark alley (or a well lit alley would be fine too), but I get flush faced taking a simple blood test. I have a hard time with being present during baby labor. I witnesses a full broken leg one time and I am the one that turned pale green. I will look into Iron deficiency though :) Melissa - how did Chris know about his mild iron excess?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:25 PM

Oh yah good point about sweat. Um. Maybe I am iron deficient actually. I do not short myself on sweating. For one, I live in San Diego, and it's been hot lately. Also I sweat a lot when I workout, of course. Also, I sweat a lot when I lay out at the pool, of course. Also, I sweat when I think about giving blood.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on August 08, 2011
at 09:10 PM

He kept getting magnets stuck to himself.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:12 PM

When I was in medical school the blood bank got 175 free pints of blood by requiring us all to donate. It's really no big deal. Just tell them to use a large needle so it goes fast...

50637dfd7dc7a7e811d82283f4f5fd10

(5838)

on August 09, 2011
at 04:39 AM

The needle is big, I'd guess 3 times the size of the normal needle. Took about 5 min, but no difference outside of that.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on August 10, 2011
at 02:25 AM

Jack, Anthony Colpo recently posted re reducing blood levels; may be worth a look re IP6 given your feelings re giving blood: http://anthonycolpo.com/?p=1792

0cda75709f5767493b5ab6bf35c26925

on June 04, 2014
at 10:02 PM

"You could do the mirror test: Look in the mirror, is you fat? If yes then stoppit." Loved it.

4
2d4ff23c8ce7fb00708fa88ceffd4087

(408)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:26 PM

Are you salting your food at all?

I was having the same symptoms and I had to go the ER because I was close to fainting while playing soccer, apparently I wasn't eating enough salt.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:43 PM

ROB, I suspect that I eat a low sodium diet, giving my choice of food now compared to what it was, which was often prepped meals by Trader Joes or whatever that had loads of sodium in it. However, since reading some interesting comments from Ray Peat about the importance of salt, I have began sprinkling a little extra. I use pure sea salt, and I use a salted pasture butter, and the bacon I eat has salt, and I always salt my eggs.

4
Medium avatar

on August 08, 2011
at 06:34 PM

My thoughts on carb intake are that we should attempt to come as close to matching our daily rate of glycogen depletion with carbs (preferably from tubers).

More importantly, it sounds like you're having cardiac arrhythmias. I have experienced these in the past and I've narrowed this down to low blood sugar (and maybe low calcium intake since I don't eat dairy). I've started to take 2tsps of calcium citrate a day and a minimum of 150g of net carbs from sweet potato. I almost never get these anymore. If it does occur, it's usually because I've miscalculated my glycogen depletion as a result of anaerobic workouts. I'll then eat a fair amount of sweet potato and it will stop. I think it's a fairly serious thing to be experiencing any sort of persistent dysrhythmia, so you shouldn't mess around with this.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:21 PM

Low blood sugar? Now that could be. My father was hypoglycemic (and quite severely so). But that was his doing. He made very poor choices while managing that. But at least I know that it does run in my blood upline.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:43 PM

Well, I think there's this somewhat prevalent behavior where someone does a killer leg workout and eat a sweet potato and figures that it should be sufficient, but they're failing to recognize that even if they were bed-ridden, they'd be burning through 5g of liver glycogen an hour. It takes A LOT of (relatively carb-sparse) sweet potato to fuel heavy hypertrophy workouts + replete liver glycogen stores. A 300g sweet potato is only like 45g of carbs.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 07:46 PM

Or eat some carbs? That was one of the more relevant things Kurt added to the conversation. That was HIS solution. And it works!

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:53 PM

CarbSane: Set aside your lunacy for a moment and see that we are likely in complete agreement. I advocate ingesting an amount of starch that matches what I presume to be the amount of glucose the body wants. No more, no less. This is not a controversial point. Relative to the SAD, it is technically "low-carb" but I consider it to be "appropriate carb."

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:51 PM

Yah I just have always been between the fences. One side says your body will produce it via gluconeogenesis, even if you don't eat the glucose. So I figured some starch at least alleviates a big percentage of that versus someone who is strict low carb and still smashes the weights. I suppose I can try more sweet potato/potato and see how I feel.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:18 PM

Travis - I work out HARD, every.single.time. And I have just switched up my program to 5x a week working only 1-2 muscle groups versus total body workouts 3x /wk. Am I depleted my glycogen tanks all the time? I mean, seriously... I could see this being the case. When I get down I am beat, but it is when I feel my very best. No odd feeling in the chest at all. It's really wonderful. I've tried protein before/after. Can't really notice a difference either way. As for calcium, I was getting my fair share of dairy from several sources, so I do not suspect that I am not getting enough calium.

3
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 07:49 PM

I feel like I blogged about this last year, but can't find my own post. Either way I had a "syncope" episode that was immensely frightening. I woke up in the middle of the night with a horrible cramp in my leg. When I got up to try to release it, I stumbled and fainted. When I woke up I was soaked in urine, my ears were ringing, and I was sweating, but had chills. I went to the ER and had a brain scan, ultrasound of blood vessels, etc. etc. and they didn't find anything. Maybe a more detailed vascular scan would have picked something up. I felt off for quite a while after that, cramping, weird heartbeat (they could't find any evidence of arrhythmia though), feeling faint, feeling crappy. I have managed to crawl my way into feeling normal though and now have no issues. It's hard for me to tell what I'm doing differently since I didn't keep a good food diary (that was dumb :( ), but I suspect I eat lower fat, lower protein and higher carb. I eat a lot more grains (particularly buckwheat) and a lot more salt. I eat a lot less dairy, almost no eggs, and a lot less coconut, though they are certainly part of my diet. I don't eat much bacon, but I still eat prosciutto at least once a week. I would say half my meals are pescatarian or vegan, admittedly some of these are just fruit. I have been over a year cramp-free and I am very happy with that. My blood pressure, which was dropping really badly, has normalized. I guess I'm highlighting the major issue with n=1 because it's hard to isolate what precipitated these changes.

I'm sorry I can't offer much in the way of science though. But after meeting so many red-faced low-carb folks at AHS, I've been researching vascular dysfunction as a function of excess protein and hope to compile some information. Maybe I'm being premature, but I were you I'd cut out the protein powder for sure. Then I'd look into throwing away the egg whites. And doing several low-protein meals a week.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:27 PM

thanks Matthew, haha. I would note that they later ruled out seizures.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 08:06 PM

Melissa, I don't think it's excess protein. I have a lovely complexion, and whether it shows in my pics or not, most folks take me for at least 10 usually 15 yrs younger than my age. I eat a far lower fat higher protein version of low carb than these men, and eating more carbs these days has displaced fat and kept protein high. Looks more like vascular insulin resistance to me. Sometimes complexion is genetic as well.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:27 PM

Melissa - better promote Matthew to a moderator of your site. He knows it better than you :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:39 PM

Thank google :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:06 PM

I think Loren Cordain is a prime example http://fitfemaleforty.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/IMG_0776.jpg if you look at pictures of him ten years ago, he just didn't have that complexion

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:11 PM

carbsane, are you sun-burned in the pics on your site where you have red skin?

2d4ff23c8ce7fb00708fa88ceffd4087

(408)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:58 PM

I hope you have an explanation for red faced high carbers...like myself.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:05 PM

I think it's a very long-term effect. By red-faced I mean their entire skin was red and if you look at pictures of them 10 years ago, they looked normal. Maybe it's a normal effect of aging in some people? Maybe it has nothing to do with protein and has to do with some inflammatory foods in their diet.

2d4ff23c8ce7fb00708fa88ceffd4087

(408)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:59 PM

Although I did find my face was considerably redder when I was low carbing.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:00 PM

I'm curious what you mean by "red-faced low-carb folks." Is this a literal observation, that their faces were flushed?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:09 PM

And not to keep pimping the human biodiversity angle, but I suspect the ability to handle protein varies quite highly among humans.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 08, 2011
at 08:10 PM

huh, carbsane, interesting. Cordain is a salt hater and "In these younger normotensive and hypertensive subjects, dietary salt restriction increases resistance to the vasodilating effects of insulin." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8873692

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:43 PM

Thank google :) Sadly I lack an encyclopedic knowledge of your blog.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:25 PM

http://huntgatherlove.com/content/unwelcome-visitor

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:24 PM

It's probably booze! Teehee!

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:02 PM

Wow. That's very interesting stuff Melissa. You talked about a lot here. The protein part has me curious, as I only take one single scoop of 26g when I work out. I know bodybuilders who take 3-4 times that, at least. Why would some people be able to overload on protein and eat a dozen eggs in one day, but then I would have to eliminate one scoop? I ask not to antagonize your advice. I ask out of being perplexed.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:41 PM

Thank google :) Unfortunately I lack an encyclopedic knowledge of your blog.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:04 AM

@Melissa: carbsane, are you sun-burned in the pics on your site where you have red skin? Yes a bit, but I think it might also be the camera in some cases too. I have olive skin and get tan quickly and rarely truly burn. I think I do have reverse racoon eyes in one of the pics b/c the one place I do use sunscreen is around my eyes. I do not have red skin or a puffy Kruse-plexion going on, that's for sure! Sarah-ann might be on to something ;)

2
66974b2cb291799dcd661b7dec99a9e2

(11121)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:27 PM

I used to have cardiac arrhythmia when I was SAD. After cleaning my Lifestyle up (going paleo) I rarely have them now, I have been LC-VLC for years now and use sea salt. I actually had an episode of atrial fibrillation that landed me in the hospital once, pre paleo. This is what seemed to work for me. I do notice if I happen to chose to eat a lot of carbs my heart rate does increase for a couple hours after eating where as my normal LC meals do not have such an effect.

2
Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

on August 08, 2011
at 06:34 PM

While I'm not answering the question you ask, I will offer that looks to me like you may not be getting sufficient magnesium and selenium. Magnesium insufficiency appears to trigger various types of arythmia and what you describe could absolutely be that.

You wrote: "Sometimes I feel like the bloodflow around my heart is restricted, and it's actually painful every now and then. Sometimes my heart seems to "sink" for a second, like it took a "gulp". It's very strange. It's not constant, and is worse at times and better other times"

What you describe is also how some describe anxiety, which also can be triggered by insufficient mg.

Your n6 inake certainly is quite low compared to the general population but it does not appear that fish is a part ofyour diet while nuts and eggs are. It may be prudent to consider shifting around foods to lower n6 intake and increase n3 intake if you are currently getting more than a 4:1 n6 to n3 ratio.

It'll be interesting to hear responses more specific than mine. Hope you get it worked out soon.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 10:06 PM

Well, calcium specifically binds with the minerals in a multi, so you're likely getting less than optimal amounts of each. I try to segregate my supps so as to have less of a blackbox phenomenon. I do 400mg a day of magnesium glycinate or aspartate and haven't suffered any ill effects.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:05 PM

oopsie. I forget to mention fish. i eat wild ocean sockeye salmon regularly. we just bought another huge slab of it and cut it up into about 5 or 6 meals. I think my o6 intake at this point is insanely low. I even cut out nuts. My only source of o6 pufa now is bacon and occasionally chicken. As for magnesium, what is the best supp to take? And to Travis, what did you mean by your closing comment above?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:31 PM

Na, Cl, K, Ca (and apparently HPO4 and HCO3) could all be responsible, though I doubt it's the latter two unless your phosphorus intake is somehow really low.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:32 PM

Na, Cl, K, Ca, Mg(and apparently HPO4 and HCO3) could all be responsible, though I doubt it's the latter two unless your phosphorus intake is somehow really low.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:52 PM

phosphorus has probably been really high until recently with the bananas and figs. What about just taking a multivitamin. I know that's not what most people here recommend, but wouldn't that be a shotgun approach to possibly fix the problem?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 06:37 PM

You may be right, but in my experience magnesium intake was held constant while I adjusted those other two variables and they made a difference. I could see a deficiency in any electrolyte being a potential cause however.

Eecc48184707bc26bce631485b5b7e34

(4764)

on August 10, 2011
at 02:15 PM

Citrate and Malate are well absorbed and are the best "bang for the buck". For those who can't tolerate either, there is a chelated, time released form (Mg dimalate) available from Jigsaw. Ungodly expensive but if nothing else is tolerable at needed levels, then it's worth it. @Travis and @Jack - potassium and magnesium are much more likely to be deficienct than sodium or calcium. And only in the case of *extreme* deficiencies of those two would there be an issue. Pursue K and Mg.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 12:46 PM

P.S. that ref only did Mg citrate to MgO, I can't find the other one at the moment that compared bioavailability vs. several other forms. For the buck, the citrate seems to be the best value.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 12:39 PM

@Jack: Mg citrate is the best (aside from a rather expensive complexed form of some sort that I can't recall off the top of my head at the moment). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2407766 MgO is the form in many supps and it's poor absorption is likely the cause of it's laxative effect. Many VLC'ers take this for regularity.

1
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:22 PM

I am with Dr. Harris on this, on all points.

Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7314)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:10 PM

Care to elaborate?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on August 09, 2011
at 04:13 AM

He just doesn't seem to think that low carb is a problem here, that it will cause such a serious heart problem.

-8
24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 07:29 PM

Travis, you are hysterical!

Folks here ... if you want to get the full picture about NEFA rather than where Kurt Harris went all immature frat boy on me, please take the time to read the label at the blog. Possible ischemia is a small part of the potential problem.

If you're diabetic and going VLC with significant weight loss has you still horribly glucose intolerant, while morbidly obese undergo GBP surgery and a 600 cal/day diet for 2 months had over 70% STILL diabetes free despite reverting to their regular diet for 3 months ... you need to at least wonder why rather than following the dogma.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 09, 2011
at 12:45 AM

@KGH - I posted here on PH recently that you were pulling a Jimi Hendrix. Hits the scene and takes everyone by storm. Redefines a genre. And then poof - gone. Please come back to life...or at least talk to us like Obi-wan to Luke and teach us the ways of the force. Our training is not complete!!!

F3e27fc503b7d792d78718af081adf67

(149)

on August 08, 2011
at 10:19 PM

LOL, the always-mature Carbsane strikes again. Just be happy she doesn't have children. :-)

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:39 PM

@Travis - Carbsane is so polarizing that you and I are now on the same side : )

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:36 PM

CarbSane, why do you always resort to name-calling and bitchiness? It seriously weakens your argument. You might have something interesting to say but the ad-hominem crap just turns me right off.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 07:45 PM

Wow that was quick! Read Kurt's comments. He trolled me about the web after this trying to shout me down as well. Immature frat boy is a mild description of his behavior.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 09, 2011
at 12:07 AM

We're all just windmills at which she tilts.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:17 PM

CarbSane - Ok but you posted "Travis, you are hysterical" here on this thread, which is not Peter's blog. It follows that some here would wonder what in the world you are referring to? That would be like me saying "Aravind, you're crazy man" right here in this thread, referring to his comments about the AHS last weekend. That's pretty bizarre.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:26 PM

@Evelyn - I wonder, are you even capable of typing without proferring an insult? I am not going to insult you back as that is precisely what you crave and hatred and mockery seems to be the oxygen your blog runs on. It's amazing to me the degree of animosity you have towards someone who agrees with you on so many points of dietary science - me. As Aravind has pointed out along with many others, you could have had an outstanding blog by just sticking to the science and not playing a "the friend of my enemy is my enemy" script. What a shame.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 08, 2011
at 11:37 PM

I trolled you? You spammed my favorite blogs - ones I've been reading every day for 4 years - long before you were on the scene -attacking the authors and anyone else with whom you disagreed with your sneering derision. I merely gave you your own medicine a few times. Try counting the number of blog posts I did about you or the number of times I've mentioned you on my blog - ZERO. Who is trolling who? And what are you doing here at paleohacks with folks who think there might be more to talk about than how evil and stupid low carb advocates are?

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:54 PM

CS - I don't think you meant to put Travis. He didn't really mention much about you here.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:47 PM

@CarbSane - I have read your blog. Like so many blogs I don't agree with everything, but I really do think you have something to offer. However, rather than allying with others that clearly have a position of influence, you choose to attack them. Kurt Harris and Peter at Hyperlipid have a lot of clout in this community. Gary Taubes has national recognition whether you like it or not. I am a business man and strategic consultant. My 2 cents is that you re-assess your market share and branding strategy.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 12:20 AM

It't too bad they give out lances for free these days..

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:28 PM

Oh, that makes a little more sense...up-voted for the nostalgia.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 10, 2011
at 12:30 AM

There is still a great post on narcissism for you. I do stand by that!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:39 PM

I don't see the part where Kurt Harris went frat boy. The arguments are quite clearly laid out. But your website background is very unique, and welcome to paleohacks!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:02 PM

@CarbSane - This might help you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

A727956fa3f943057c4edb08ad9e864e

(4183)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:22 PM

CS, you must wonder why you continue to get this type of reaction whether it's you. I know of lots of bloggers that go against the VLC grain and they don't get the reaction you are alluding to. Ever thought of why that is? Melissa above said something not a million miles from your point just one post above you and she got curiosity and considered opinions instead of ire. Sand down the chip on the shoulder a little and you might actually change someone's mind instead of just preaching to people as embittered sounding as you.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 09:18 PM

Yes Jack ... based on his post here. Avarind: Yes I know. And my reply remains the same.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on August 08, 2011
at 08:34 PM

haha. yah I guess that's true Aravind. Nice call. Ok. Here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/56446/favorite-ahs-speaker/56495#56495

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:52 PM

Even if that's what you think, some things are better left unsaid. Let your arguments stand on their merits.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 09, 2011
at 12:06 AM

We're all just windmills being tilted at.

Medium avatar

(39831)

on August 08, 2011
at 07:44 PM

Oh, uh...thanks?

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 08, 2011
at 08:10 PM

Um ... for those that are not aware, Travis spun a pathetic tale over in the comments on Peter/Hyperlipid's blog. Along with a whole bunch of trash talk. I don't have time to link the post. Google Gourmand Rats and you'll find some real ad hominem crap. Travis, of course is well aware of this. Avarind ... yeah I'm familiar with those types

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:28 PM

@Jack - the difference Jack is that others here might get it since they could relate it to another post

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 01:40 AM

@Aravind Learn by my example. Take some time off from the internets to attend to real life. There is more to life than diet, blogs and commenting and reading on blogs and forums. I am not posting because I am not reading much relevant to post about right now, and I hate producing fluff when I'm not inspired. And I'm not obsessively glued to my computer the way it's so easy to be when you've only been blogging a year or so. I'll be back at some point whether you want me or not. Not dead yet. Not vegan.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:38 PM

@CarbSane - my link was directed "at you", not "for you" to be clear. Secondly, I disagree with Gary Taubes and his carb theory as a causative theory. However, I don't care who you are - to deny the positive influence of Good Calories Bad Calories is laughable. The bad science exposed makes it incredibly valuable irrespective of the ultimate conclusion. You have more than damaged your credibility with the ad hominem attacks on GT. I think GT can be a total dick as demonstrated at AHS, but that does not mean that he is solely motivated by $. You are guilty of the same intransigence that he is.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 08, 2011
at 08:49 PM

@CarbSane - I have read your blog. Like so many blogs I don't agree with everything, but I really do think you have something to offer. However, rather than allying with others that clearly have a position of influence, you choose to attack them. Kurt Harris and Peter at Hyperlipid have a lot of clout in this community. Gary Taubes has national recognition whether you like it or not. I am not suggesting you need to compromise what you believe to be right vs wrong but delivery of the message. As a strategic consultant, my 2 cents is that you re-assess your market share and branding strategy.

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 12:10 AM

Wow, Carbsane - you can be quite vicious. I'm sorry to see it.

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 12:20 AM

@Aravind - is Carbsane part of the paleo/low carb community?

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 09, 2011
at 01:43 AM

@KGH - The crack addiction is difficult to give up but it doesn't make the crack good for you, I know. You do realize that all this energy here is because of the impact you've had on people...certainly me. Thanks for all you done. Now let me turn some Hey Joe and jam out to it.

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 04:48 PM

You are not just reading. You are calling me names, are you not? Did you not call me an "immature frat boy"? Or did we all just imagine that part? Is this the way you have a dialogue and convince people of your argument? To show up on a forum you've not been to before and insult people gratuitously? Is it your goal to be the most hated person on the internet DESPITE your ideas? You are certainly on the way. YOU calling ME nasty? Are you serious? Have you ever read your own blog? You insulted me first and you know it. Perhaps when you have BPD it's easy not to notice these things, I guess.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 09, 2011
at 01:19 PM

Gee Kurt. What am I doing here? Well, pardon me for reading what is being discussed about me. It wasn't enough for you to devolve into spamming my blog, but you had to try to shout me down on other blogs. It was your poor behavior that caused me to have to put comment moderation on, you kept them coming despite my citing that I had family issues I was trying to deal with so to repost your nasty comments took a bit of time. Don't get all blown out of your own importance Doc. You don't own the internet. Don't like the fact that I comment on a few of the blogs you read? Ignore me!

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:13 AM

Gee Emily, where was I being vicious? I really don't care if you read, tweet or whatever as regards my blog. I'm not Paleo but I am low carb but I don't buy the carb/insulin nonsense. Aravind is not worth the effort to type out a response. I do believe KGH had some good advice for you.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 09, 2011
at 11:16 PM

Thanks for the clarification Dr H

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:13 PM

@Kamal: Thank you! The highlighting and such in this post is uncharacteristic for me so perhaps it bothered Jack. The background/text being unimaginably distracting puzzled me a bit. The body of blog posts are dark grey easy to read sized Trebuchet font on white. I went for personalizing the site rather than bland and dark. Glad you appreciate that :)

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 10:58 PM

I welcome anyone to read everything I wrote and decide for themselves, Evelyn. Just keep up the name-calling, by all means. You followed me here, remember? You started the name-calling first, as you always do and always will.

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 12:20 AM

One more thing, CS - I've tweeted your posts a few times because I thought some of them had funny or informative comments. I see now that was a mistake.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 09, 2011
at 10:49 PM

@KGH - may I be so bold as to ask you what specifically led you to withdrawing from the Internet. I'm not asking why you are not blogging of late to be clear. I am trying to relate this to the hyper stimulating environment we are in, of which Food Reward is but one example. Just looking for some deeper insights on your comment above to me. Thanks!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 10, 2011
at 12:26 AM

Well she is posting here and she eats low carb. But your point is well taken - she has chosen to alienate herself from ALL communities so I guess she is an island unto herself. I stand corrected :-)

Ba686a7b91a9c04f18170dd4ac762968

on August 09, 2011
at 11:02 PM

Aravind- I have other real enterprises (as in, income-producing) and interests that require or capture my attention. It really is that simple. Sometimes a hobby blog has to go by the wayside for a while. But I got rid of television about 6 months ago and I find that combined with not doing much on the internet it has really been a breath of fresh air to spend more time in the actual physical world as opposed to this virtual one.

89a3eb9e05b04102f0a584e438a7da3e

(1136)

on August 10, 2011
at 02:17 AM

@Aravind it is unethical to diagnose people on the internet :)

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 09, 2011
at 09:40 PM

Calling you names? You didn't act like a right prig on my blog? Yeah. It's there for folks to see. Your response to a mild comment here? To make inferences about mental illness. Nice Kurt. KGH said "You insulted me first and you know it." Pony up that evidence sir. What next, are you going to stick your tongue out at me and wiggle your fingers in your ears and go "nah nah nah na nah nah"? Sheesh. Why don't you focus on writing on your own blog for a change of pace rather than harassing me.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 10, 2011
at 12:17 AM

Dr Deans in da house - awesome. Maybe you could do a post on narcissism in the Paleo/low carb community with Carbsane as your case study

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on August 10, 2011
at 02:16 AM

@Kurt: I followed you here? Huh? Where on earth did you come up with that fantasy? I followed blogger traffic stats here.

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