0

votes

Paleo kids-how much do they need?

Commented on March 09, 2014
Created February 26, 2014 at 6:08 PM

I have an (almost) 8 year old (f), 6 year old(f), and 18 month old (m), we eat all organic foods, and have switched to FULL paleo about 3 weeks ago. My oldest has had a huge improvement on her belly issues by cutting out grains (we were already gluten and dairy free) and legumes. They miss rice and lentils, as well as peanut butter-but they are getting along great.

The problem I have is this: they want to eat eat eat! I cannot afford for them to polish off a 3# bag of apples, a 2# bunch of bananas and 2 oranges each every day!

we start our days with a smoothie and nuts or eggs. Some days we have eggs and sausage, but smoothies are normal for us (green, fruits, veggies, coconut milk/almond milk, sometimes nut butter) if there isn't "fat" in it-I serve it with a 1/4 cup of grain free granola and an egg. On top of this huge dose of fruits and veggies-my kids have free rein over carrots, hard boiled eggs and raisins. I try to limit their fruit (outside of smoothies) to 1 banana, 1 apple, and half an orange each/day. My plan is to make a big batch of nut granola and sort it into 1/4 cup servings so everyone gets one a day.

We are not big "lunch" people-lunch is cold leftovers, tuna with avocado or similar.

Our dinners are very good-usually cabbage or brussel sprouts, sweet potato with bacon, fish or meats...I feel like my kids do get plenty, but I am scared telling them NO all the time to another apple may cause food issues later in life. I know I am missing stuff on here-like I do make "treats" often- they each get a date rolled in coconut daily. I often melt dark chocolate (85%) and mix it with coconut oil as a small treat. I just don't want to cause problems for my kids with food. Food is fuel...and I don't want to do it wrong.

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on March 02, 2014
at 04:00 AM

if i got sick i wouldnt sue you. and ill pasteurize it myself

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2014
at 02:59 AM

We don't sell off farm. We aren't a licensed dairy. Too much liability. This is only dairy I consume raw too, teat to plate to mouth… I control the quality every step of the way.

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on March 02, 2014
at 02:04 AM

ooohh mmyy godddd where do you live i want goatmilk

2eb1b3e896624be5506029e3fec3e9e2

(10)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:34 PM

"insulin makes you hungry" is one of the most retarded things i have ever heard. and the paleo community wonders why nutrition scientists dont take them seriously.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:12 PM

"White rice is high GI. So are potatoes. Not the devil, but..."

To lower the GI, or in reality the GL (glycemic load) of foods, just eat high GI items as part of a balanced meal. Fats, Acids, Dairy, Fibre will all reduce the 'GI' of foods when added to them, eg, butter with your potato, vinegar with your rice...

full story here, how-to-minimize-hyperglycemic-toxicity

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 02:03 PM

And I note you are quick to comment on another's persiecve agressivessness without posting anything about the commentaries you've posted about characters. It's okay by me if you do that, but for you maybe you need to hear it...Anyway maybe i say something more about what I think re insulin hunger later... Now though after this post I want to do other things than reply here. As said, enjoy your day.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 02:03 PM

This and what you said are different. And I was responding to what you said and my interperationt htereof that I've already idenfitied. ive been honest about that from the start. but if not to you, and If that's rude to you, okay... Based on the rudness you yourself have exhbited but not acknoelved though, I'm not sure i have 100% in your ability to accurately, outwardly recognise it..

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 02:01 PM

Honestly I think your reading stuff into my post that isn't there.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 02:01 PM

We've never been really talking about what i think, though really... Say as you like. it doesn't mean i agree etc.

I beg to differ with your notion here that me thinking insulin levels affect hunger is inconsistent with what I initally posed in a comment.. In maybe you'll find whne reading again i suggeseted you reprhrase your itnintal point to say something essenitally along the lines of hyperinsulinema makes ppl hungry..

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 02:00 PM

Except they only did the study for two hours, which is not enough time for a starch meal to dip in blood sugar, from the overall insulin (initially there would be plenty of blood sugar, its high GI and high GL, so the dip takes a really significant amount of time - just look at some post meal blood sugar tests). Also the subjective measure is pointless and distracting, What matters is how much they eat calorically when their blood sugar dips, (and also over longer periods of time with IR, leptin resistance etc). All that subjective measure tests is the volume of the food in the gut.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:59 PM

I didn't signal that I disagree that my post gives that impression. insulin makes you hungry, in no way implies that it is the only determinant. I don't see that at all.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:55 PM

Cheers, you too. I'd be interested in learning more about you and where youre coming from at some point here. I'm sure if you post quesitonable claims and i feel like commenting, we meet there ;) perhaps vice versa. Anyway, enjoy your day. Def agree about waste of time... Some dead horses are getting flogged a bit somewhere i tihnk...

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:53 PM

I would still enjoy knowing your actual position.Its obvious you have one, that you do not directly disclose. That's kind of rude and dishonest, in my view, sorry just saying, and doesn't help me relate to your ideas. Do you believe that the insulin response, effects hunger in any way? (and if so, why did you object to my post which only stated that?). If I understood your actual position/beliefs, it would assist me to engage your ideas, studies, replies, and so forth. That would make discussion much easier and more transparent and clear.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:48 PM

I hope and trust that we can be civil, calm, friendly, and not get emotively involved in what is essentially the least pointful intellectual discussion of our lives, and a likely complete waste of time. If we can, I am sure we can have an interesting or entertaining, humble, open discussion of whatever ideas we wish to explore. Hope your having a nice day, and that you are surrounded by, in life, people who care about you :)

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:45 PM

Sounds reasonable, more reasonable than buying a goat before knowing you like or tolerate goat milk. I do not recommend raw milk though… really have to know sanitation to trust that.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:42 PM

But not that relevant...Anyway, the study was used to make point tha tif inulin did make people hungry, then the potatoppl wouldn't have reported be sated. It's irrelevant what the high fat thing did (or is a standard debate about low carb/high carb...?

But this not that relevant...Anyway, the study was used to make point tha tif inulin did make people hungry, then the potatoppl wouldn't have reported be sated. It's irrelevant what the high fat thing did (or is a standard debate about low carb/high carb...?

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:42 PM

PS it was some years ago I finished my uni degree. I did have access to full journal databases a few years ago, but not any more. I have to rely on stuff that is fully publically published, or read between the lines (which is never that good). Thankfully a lot is public.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:42 PM

You acknowledged afterward there is more to picture than you intially signalled (and i've been clear about my interpreatino from the beginning) if you have doubt in tone or clairty, i invite you to read again and try to see from another perspective... I try to do similar here sometimes... Compassion, empathy relate to happiness. -these are subjective just like the measuers in the study... they don't use ghrelin, letpin or short term sugar levels...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:42 PM

Seconded, what peak performance atheletes need no more than 100-200 grams of carbohydrates per day? Better tell Phelps he's overeating by 1000s of grams of carbs.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:41 PM

Insulin does not make you hungry. less insulin does not equal less fulness, absolutely.'You made these claims. I am not saying you said it was only determinenant - i said explciitly that it could be read that way, and justifiably too, i think... that's not ambiguous- it just requires reading and being chartiable, trying to be faithful interpretation... I don't know why you'd think the study would convince you that insulin, blood sugar doesn't have any impact/isn't related to hunger...Did I claim that or something? I don't think I did.. your calim was simplistic and, frankly, incoherent.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:40 PM

Hence a lot of my confusion about your immediate counter position, aggressive language and tone, and multi-pronged, even rambling counter argument to something I never said or claimed. Although, you did draw out the nessasary correction, that it is indirectly from insulin, via IR, blood sugar dips, leptin resistance and other factors that this occurs, not directly from insulin itself.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:39 PM

Hey, it's another Gastronomer troll…

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:34 PM

All the same, Ill look at your link tomorrow. Perhaps we can talk respectfully, non assumptively, politely, gentley, without weird aggressive tone or language, as human beings, from here on in? That would encourage me a great deal, to actually engage your ideas. That would be nice. Although it seems probable that your instinct to call me out on simplicity of model, in reflection was just a misreading of what I actually said, which is merely that insulin (indirectly actually, which i quickly corrected after), effects hunger, not that it is the only determinant.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:29 PM

In general, I find you needlessly petty, argumentative, even childish. Just being 100% honest, its not personable, and that never encouraged me to engage you seriously, or intellectually. You could have taken a whole nother tone from the outset (indeed you could have not read my post as a full thesis on the totality of hunger and satisfaction in the first place).

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:27 PM

I did not claim in my original post, that it was the only impact or determinant of hunger either, as you seem to have assumed all the way along, with your talk about how there are more factors and so on. Irrelevant to what I said, in fact, because there was no such claim. I merely said that the insulin response creates hunger (through the dip for one). And your study, because you are relying on long effect starches, and a mere two hours, doesn't refute that claim either.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:26 PM

The subjective measure of fullness is completely unnessasary. They should have used purely objective measures, like food intake. I do not know how sugary foods compared, nor do I know the consistency of the data set, or what kind of statistical analysis they used, so there are hard limits on what I can take away from a pubmed summary. But I don't see anything in that, that convinces me insulin, blood sugar, do not have any impact on hunger, as I stated in my original post.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:24 PM

ps, I don't really think i'm smart... I'm learning all the time and loving it... the more i know the more i know i don't know, know i don't know etc etc... (thanks donald...) You mistake me here maybe because I'm expressing how I think about what you're saying to me... Maybe I am 'smarter' than you, or you me... Who cares... Unless it's inovlve din the topic directly... and maybe It might be a factor, and I have my intuitions based on what I've seen and know in myself, but these arent really relevant enough for me to commetn on further at this moment...

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:23 PM

Additionally, two hours is not enough time. Blood sugar dips due to insulin occur a long time after a full proper meal. Digestion of even higher GI starches, is a very ongoing process. If you were to take a blood meter, and measure blood sugar, that potato meal would take a long time to come down. Density, and water swelling are non-macro nutrient factors. The fatty meals did as well as the starchy meals (in the limited two hour window), only the fat+carb meals did poorly, probably because of food reward - and they tasted damned good.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:21 PM

However Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. Your tone, and the clarity of your own position aside, Ill look at that link tomorrow. In regards to what little I can gleen from the saiety index study, there are a few obvious holes. One is the sample size is small, and seemingly not based on varied diet or metabolism, as should be controlled for. These people might have stretched stomachs and are accustomed to carb bloat, or not fat adapted (or not). Either way sample size and subject selection are appropriate study controls that are seemingly absent.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:19 PM

I just don't like your tone. It was evasive, and impolite from the start. That's how emotive arguing always looks. Rational discussion looks nothing like what you've been doing. Here let me google that for you, isn't polite, or even clever. Its infantile.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:12 PM

Expressing myself about the crux of your answer to the poster's question is not meshing with the context exactly...? Or is my view of what science is, and coherence, context etc a bit different to yours? Seems so...

If you don't like reponses you get to posting questinoable claims, you can always not post them and post somethign coherent oringally, after using the skills you are talking up the virtues of having... Or respond as you are doing, that might also work for you, in which case, fair enough. Continute...

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 01:11 PM

Passive aggressive? lol. thank you mate. And for the rest of the ad hominems... Irony? Looks like you know it well...

You're welcome to think and assume as you please.

Anyway, I'm to assume your sceintific training makes you able to post half and untruths? To be unable to coherently respond to engagemnts with what you post without recousing, now, to saying they are 'petty', unnecssary inthe context...?

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 12:58 PM

on a simiilar topic to the other one. He explicitly engages with some of the content, no vagaries about as far as I can see... Hope you're not too annoyed or patronised by my inviting you to have a look ;)

GI stuff in particularlly might be interesting for you amongst other things...

happy judging...

http://suppversity.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/the-starch-satiety-shootout-potatoes.html

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 12:58 PM

I somewhat agree with you orignial point aabout pubmed summary, etc, although am of opinion that sometimes useful points about a study can be gleeaned from abstracts... If it's the case for you here that you can't with this study, fair enough.

Anyway I'm a uni student and can access the full study... I post it so you can find it for yourself. I assumed you can access after you posted the earlier study. My mistake...

Anyway, here is a post by someone who has read a less well known study

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 12:50 PM

My advice, is leave studies to people who understand science, and stop pretending your smarter than you are, and also stop being a smarmy idiot. You'll be happier for it, honestly. Think about it.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 12:49 PM

The fact you link to that, is not promising in terms of your level of scientific understanding at all. You know what a full study is, or looks like? Ever critiqued or assessed a study? Been to university at all? (or technical institute?) I think it likely your level of banal pettiness in terms of unnessasarily (in the context) correcting a simplistic statement might just transcend your scientific comprehension abilities, and that is not a good sign of character (well the ironically condenscending tone is already a give away).

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 12:38 PM

Thats not the full study, mate. Thats the pubmed summary. You CAN'T judge its veracity from that, you can't assess the science without more detail. Ask anyone who actually studied science, and understands how to critique and assess studies. Thats simply not enough info to even comment, let alone agree with it. Little annoying repeating myself, especially when you ironically partonize me with the google search (passive aggressive behaviour). I can't comment on the vaguaries of a pubmed summary. I need the full study to judge.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:59 AM

It's ambiguous perhaps if you're coming at this form a postiions of adversialism... Which your posting of the study, claim making kind of indicated... Of course that's okay, you posted, i commented, you replied... Thing was that you thought your reply was fundamentally against something I'd said... Problem: it wasn't, imho. And you 'argue' discuss with me anyway. I think you are right that you havn't understood, or wanted to udnerstand perhaps, much of what I'm saying... No worries...

Have a good day.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:58 AM

I agree that stomach distention is related to people feeling hungry etc... Why do you think this claim bears mentioning...? In fact wouldn't on your logic it bely the intial thought that insulin causes hunger...? Potatoes cause spike, they bloat... Insulin causes hunger, but bloat is fullness...??

You're welcome to yourself rea, again .. Maybe your interpretatiot will be different this time..

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:55 AM

nd indeed, very different... iE, insulin not the problem you seemed to imply.

As for potatoes, I think saying potatoes cause bloating in general is a bit weird... Misguided to be exact... Maybe in some people. But aboslutely? This is not akin to a way I tihnk about this... Anyway, who are these people who commonly have the expeireince you're talking about...? Is this a 'science aside' position you're taking or another ;) :p

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:54 AM

What started as me pointing some of these seems to me to have precipitaed you posting 'counter' type arguments - towards posts that as you suggest did not have any thesis of their own.

I won't repeat but the ideas i've tried to express related to themes like accuracy, nuance, context, porblems with isolating insulin as you did as undeprinning hunger/being absolutely negatively related with senstiaons of satiety - essenitally, that the story was more complex than you were saying, a

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:54 AM

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=satiety+index

It should be the fifth one down...

You're of course entitled to have your view and i respect it. while i cna see how you might think that to some extent, i think If you re read the the comment I made prior to the one where you posted the link and examine what you've subsequnetly asserted (alongisde what you originally wrote int he post), you will see some oversights inconsistencies and potenitally misleading statemnts being made.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:18 AM

I took a break from starch for a few months. When I ate a bunch, the feeling I used to call "full", felt like an insanely uncomfortable bloating. Indeed, I would actually describe it as painful. People in general talk about this with rice, bread, potatoes - bloat post meal.. Its probable many regard this feeling as being full, subjectively. Now i regard that feeling as self-torture. Indeed that's something I avoid. My stomach has probably shrunk a great deal. Which bears mentioning because distention does relate quite strongly to satiation signals, that's simple and well known biology.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:13 AM

I'm still curious about your actual position. I prefer it when people spell their perspective out, simply, boldly, without hiding behind any ambiguity, or verbosity. And I'd also love to see that full study. Without it, I can't really comment to much of what you've said, as it all seems to rely on that study, which uses a methodology, that I have not yet seen properly. You can't judge science without reading the full study. I am tempted to take stabs at for example its reliance on subjective measures, or its subject selection, or that statistical strength, but I cannot judge without it

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:08 AM

As for wanting a fight, I suggest you look at your own conversational tone in the conversation so far. If you can see it, you'll see your pretty argumentative, without really revealling your own position, or indeed staying on any one particular point. In my experience thats all completely typical of people who are arguing just to argue. BTW, there is nothing strange about suggesting starchy foods tend to expand, and be dense, that I can see. That is also a pretty universal observation, particularly for those that eschew them for a while.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:05 AM

Without the full study, there's no judging the merit of the thing. Its impossible without a hint of the raw data, the full methodology and so on.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 11:04 AM

Well I hit google, as you suggested. And i didn't find the full study. I just found a breif but uninformative secondary account, and a pubmed summary. Neither of which tell one much at all really. So rather than guess what there method of statistical analysis was, their controls, how they selected subjects, the weighting of various measures, the relationship between actual food intake and the subjective measure, and then try to relate that to known influences on saiety like gut distention, food reward, insulin and so on, I am just going to ask for a link to the full study again.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 10:59 AM

Without enough information about subjects, controls, which form of statistical analysis they used and so on, how all the individual foods ranked etc I will just ask again if you could post the link to the full study. Without the full study, I really can't tell as much about its validity in protocol, or conclusion, or lack of such. I can guess, but id really prefer to see something with the actual data, analysis and so on, the full study. Anything less is just like getting a headline on the news without much explaination, from a scientific point of view.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 10:53 AM

Only a dissatifyingly low detail summary, and a pub med summary, neither which provide much meat or detail to assess whether there is any merit to the study or not.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 10:53 AM

The reward of higher blood sugar, is dissimilar to fats. Sugar spikes produce opiate, and stimulant like effects. Fat triggers a seperate reward mechanism linked to memory. A fatty food, slows GI, lowering the blood impact of anticipated blood sugar. The first very obvious deficit of this study, other than its complete reliable on subjective measures over actual food intake over longer periods of time, is that there is nothing about the subject selection. Although, that said, I did not find the full study via google.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 10:49 AM

Issues....hmm, okay one is that most people have some level of insulin resistance, and poor fat metabolism. A person who subjectively ranks satisfaction, who is used to eating loads of carbs, will equate bloating with subjective satisfaction. I know I used to.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 10:47 AM

Okay, this is going to have to be many posts as I dissect this methadology. Lets start with your example, rather than the study. Looking at the humble potato, it does swell under liquids, like a lot of starch heavy carbs. For example, get some potato starch, and put it in water, see what happens. Do the same with a crossiant. Satiation is triggered in part by gut distention, this is known biology. So dispite having a moderately high GI, and GL, insulin producing hunger would be inhibited by the swelling of the dense potato.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 10:38 AM

Indeed. And needlessly ambigious :P Excellent thanks :)

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 10:14 AM

Petty or counterintuitve? Whatever I answer there according to your frame of reference, them's fighting words, no... You really want to fight or something...? What i've written already is enough for me now, cheers...

I'm pretty good though anyway, thanks for asking.. How you?! :)

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 10:14 AM

ps - in the post before your one with the study link in it, what I wrote directly applied to the study... (ie about hyperinsulinemia). If you interpret again now, perhaps without needing to reflexively disagree or otherwise attempt to shore up your position in the 'fight', you might have a good asnwer to your last question.. And anyway, the question's a bit flawed imho.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 09:22 AM

I thought you were putting science aside,by the way...?

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 09:21 AM

Lol, okay... I assumed I was talking someone familiar with literature as you talk with authority by making claims like 'insulin cause hunger'.

That was my mistake.

I assumed you could use google too... I just did it - if you google 'satiety index', you should find the study I spoke of. Then you're welcome to read again what I wrote, in order( as noted I mangled the comment order) and respond (or 'fight'?) as you see fit. I'm not fighting... For there to be a fight certain conditions need to be met I think. For me they aren't here...

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 08:34 AM

BTW do you believe insulin effects hunger, by increasing it, in the absence of strong satiation signals like stomach distension or not? Just so I know if your arguing against people stating things simply, for a contextual purpose (which would be petty), or if you believe insulin has no effect on hunger (which would be counter intuitive). Also, are you happy? You don't sound happy.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 08:29 AM

Yeah, full study, in a link. Cheers. Start a new question if you like. I'd like to read the whole experimental protocol, the data, the controls, the conclusion, so I can actually see what your talking about (I posted some a study linking insulin and hunger, that mentioned several other studies also the same).

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 08:25 AM

You keep quoting conclusions that you draw from studies. How about you post them up? If you like I could critique those studies. That would be more ...fruitful at least. You just seem to be all over the place. Even if I did want to fight for fightings sake, I wouldn't know where to start. Just not coherent enough. The studies you keep quoting however, those might be fun to critique. Can we do that?

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 08:20 AM

You know what? I don't care you just want an argument. A kind of pointless and endless one, without any real direction or sense of anything. If you eat sweet stuff, or loads of carbs, you end up hungrier. If you doubt it, give it a go, its a pretty universal experience. Have a nice evening bro.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:58 AM

Fruit isn't caloric dense as much as are potatotes anyway, and it takes a lot to get to money's worth if they're a main par of diet in physcial effort, not necssarily cost although maybe this is the case where you are...). If they need energy and satisfaction, and are eating whole foods, I don't know why you'd want to restrict potaotes...?

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:58 AM

considered that focusing on gi, especally for young kids who are eating a variaed whole foods diet, might be useless, and perhaps counterproductive in circumstances...?

If you want the kids to be full/satisifed/not eating all the time, why are you thinking about encouraing them to eat more variably ie by diversifying carbs sources away from only oranges and apples, but then apparently thinking of restricting carbs like potatoes, which many people would say are very satisfying when prepared in certain ways? Most

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:58 AM

@tamika eating a lot of (cooked) carrots ('high gi foods) will increase a meal's 'glycamic load'. If you're unfamiliar with concept I think you should have a look. As you are saying, it's your kids here that are affected by your choices and knowledge level and opinions.... Anyway, maybe you haven't considered sweet potatoes as a strach ahs similar levels of carb to potatoes, and can have pretty big effects on sugar systems anyway if baked in particular.. Pumpkins being more sugary have lower carbs counts, but can be 'high gi' notwithstanding'. But have you

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:47 AM

This answer is flawed/internally contradictory because parsnips,and carrots and many pumpkins are also 'high GI' as be sweet potatoes when prepared in certain ways. If high gi foods are the problem in your opinion, then saying to someone eat other hgih gi foods isn't much help...

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:40 AM

Who says 100/200 g carbs is enough for peak perfromance athletes? And athletes in which area? I'm always interested in reading accounts of what athletes eat... Esp ones like you might have read/be referring specfiically to here about athletes eating at levels many sedentary people eat at...

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:35 AM

You sure you aren't contributing to the 'fighting' by being defensive/vcalling people jerks etc, viewing people who 'can actually help' as those you might agree with based on what they say...?

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:29 AM

PS (lol... I mangled the post by hitting the wrong reply button... the 1st is followed by the fourth, fourth by second and third...

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:28 AM

claimed in the intial post, even while coming up with some statements supporting the idea you intially expressed that 'insulin causes hunger' - half fleshed out ideas about night eating - insulin is the only hormone worth talking about here then or? Or issus? Perhaps you think people are biochemical based robots, where many things or everything can be explained b looking at cell metabolism, brain scans etc... I do not. They are important to think about, but not only things in the picture....

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:28 AM

nsulin is involved in both cases, but eating one indues satiety in test subjects but one doesn't. Maybe that will complicate your tale somewhat... (or impel another story being told...? Fat is the devil! It's the fat in teh croissant that's the porblem...! yeah!) There'll be some people claiming this too but it doesn't it to be a reaonsable, well rounded claim. Good for you that you've said here that there are other factors involved and story isn't so simple as you

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:27 AM

saying weird absolute things like 'potatoes cause bloating...' What?) after in other questions you wrote about physiology and science generally as a primary factor that should be looked at (ie not personal science/n=1s)...

To what seems to be your n=1 with sweets and the practicla experieince of people that you're appealling to... Might the combination of fat with sugar have a bearing do you think, this not being to say insulin and blood sugar issues aren't fimportant actors..? Note in satiety index study... Croissants are lowest, potatoes highest... I

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on March 01, 2014
at 07:27 AM

You are now saying that in case of potatoes insulin doesn't matter, but that reward value does... If insulin causes hunger, wouldn't you expect (and say) that the boiled potato eater would feel ravenous afterward eating...?

Re this practical experience being relevant - I agree pratical experieince and indeed subjectvitiy is very importantr. But I wonder why you are claiming it as relevant now and putting 'science aside',

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on March 01, 2014
at 06:35 AM

I won't get involved in this anymore, I tried to explain my answer as plain as possible already.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 01, 2014
at 04:21 AM

Somebody is stuck in dogma lol. If 100-200 grams daily carbs is enough for peak performance in performance atheletes, its enough for growing children. Or do you demand that all children eat 300 grams carbs per day for no reason at all? Jeeezzz..

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on March 01, 2014
at 02:17 AM

Instead of attacking and being an ass, maybe you could realize the problem is that I don't want them eating all day long and never stopping! I have seen my oldest eat 16 clementines and want more...just because her grandparents didn't say stop. She will not starve with me telling her a couple fruits is enough. I want more substance in her belly so she doesn't eat the damn house.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 01, 2014
at 02:11 AM

you realize that squash are fruit right?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 01, 2014
at 02:11 AM

I have no idea what you just said. She called me ignorant, I said that response was shallow -- and my words were heavier?

On one hand she says she wants to limit her kids fruit intake -- then she says she's going to up the squash intake. How can you help someone like that?

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on March 01, 2014
at 12:45 AM

I have a friend who has goats for milk, we are supposed to get some to try from her. If we didn't drink it, we would use it for soaps and other stuff anyway.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 28, 2014
at 11:27 PM

Speaking as a dairy goat farmer, I would say try pasteurized milk before going raw. Certainly makes sure milk is tolerated before buying livestock! (Animals are not disposable.)

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 28, 2014
at 11:25 PM

Why are you so down on fruit though? It really looks like you came here wanting validation of your aversion to feeding them fruit, and got upset when some of us suggested that fruit would be perfectly fine food.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 10:12 PM

hahahaha!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 28, 2014
at 08:54 PM

Check your serving sizes. That's nearly 10 packets of gelatin versus 8 ounces of chicken.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 07:26 PM

We were eating p.b. like mad for awhile, and lentils and her gas was horrible! We decided (with lots of reading and such) to go totally paleo as a family, kids included...so no lentils and pb

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on February 28, 2014
at 06:51 PM

Just barely true:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000094000000000000000.html

Gelatin contains 11374mg of glycine, chicken breast only 3124mg. Would be nice if they listed gelatin with the water, but oh well.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 28, 2014
at 06:51 PM

Yes Drael that's the main reason.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 28, 2014
at 06:43 PM

She criticized something you suggested and you criticized her self. It's like one saying farting is bad to someone saying I like the sound of farts and he/she in response saying you are a douchebag or the opposite of the first and the other saying you are a skunk, but your words were heavier.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on February 28, 2014
at 06:42 PM

Tsk Tsk Tsk. Neither lentils nor peanut butter are paleo, but if properly prepared lentils can be the least offensive of legumes. Ok on the almond butter.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on February 28, 2014
at 06:41 PM

I for one blame phlogiston, what with the aethers and calories and all that! Insulin! What newfanglednonsense!

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 06:09 PM

Everyone offered some advice...drael was kind and thoughtful in answers. Man...I thought vegans were an angry bunch...

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 28, 2014
at 06:02 PM

For me, if something is healthy and beneficial, I try not to deter people from consuming it -- even if it's health benefits are over-blown. So calling it hype is a bit (in my opinion) too far.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 28, 2014
at 05:58 PM

instead of closing your question, why don't you select the right answer?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 28, 2014
at 05:40 PM

I do not question broth for its culinary uses, which is why I make it and use it myself.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 05:38 PM

I have gotten some good advice here, honestly it never crossed my mind to up the amount of squash they eat. I will now be fixing either squash or sweet potatoes most days for lunch, I appreciate the help in that area...but for critiquing me for buying organic apples and not letting my kids eat the whole lot of them, that is just you trying to pick a fight so back off.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 05:37 PM

You people, I swear! They eat apples and oranges you jerks! I don't want them LIVING on apples and oranges! Yes they are healthy, I know this...it's why they are in my house at all!

You are not adding anything intelligent to the conversation, so please leave it to people who can actually help.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 28, 2014
at 05:29 PM

For goodness sake, apples and oranges are healthy!

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 03:56 PM

We practice the you must try it rule. 3 bites are required of foods (my oldest hates fish, venison...and much more!) I am quite sure she would be a vegetarian (other than bacon!) if I let her. We ask everyone to be positive when it comes to food (no saying yuck) and to try everything. I do not want to "restrict" my kids ever, but I really cannot have them eating 5#s of bananas or apples each day. thank you for your comment.

47e3734690bfdcaaacbdbc0820c7173d

(0)

on February 28, 2014
at 03:33 PM

I use ghee too- that's definitely worth a try.

I forgot to mention but if you haven't read child of mine, that's a great book on feeding kids and we follow her philosophy- basically parents are responsible for providing scheduled meals and snacks and nutritious foods. Kids are responsible for choosing what to eat (of what is served), how much of each item and whether to eat at all. My 5 yo is super picky and this has helped, over the long run. Anyway she is definitely against restricting food, rather giving kids the tools to learn self regulation.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 28, 2014
at 02:24 PM

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 28, 2014
at 02:17 PM

You said that your kids, "eat eat eat!" and that you are, "telling them NO all the time to another apple" -- Then you attack anyone who tries to give you advice?

If you want reinforcement, or do not want a varied opinion, then don't ask the question.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 02:15 PM

Sugar is an opiod, and a dopamine stimulant. That may be why he mentioned coffee? It seemed a little abstract for me, but maybe thats why, some form of food reward blocker.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 28, 2014
at 02:10 PM

Sure, but bone broth is delicious and a critical component to almost any dish I make (soups, stews, gravy, etc).

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 28, 2014
at 02:08 PM

exactly what was offensive? I provided her with scientific evidence to answer her question, she called me ignorant -- and I am being offensive?

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:56 PM

You confuse me matt11, one second you are telling me I'm not letting my kids have enough, then you mention potatoes being a fat person food...my kids do not enjoy potatoes anyhow, they prefer sweet potatoes. My kids are very active, doing flips in the house and going non stop. I'm not trying to limit them on food, I'm trying to guide them down a healthier path that doesn't have them eating. 24/7 out of boredom or because it. Tastes good.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:52 PM

Seriously, go away. I was looking for healthy carb ideas to give them instead of them living on oranges and apples! I fed them spaghetti squash yesterday and sweet potato fries with dinner! I even took a frozen squash out for lunch today. I am doing the best I can, back off if you are going to be an ass.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:42 PM

We eat lots of spinach and greens! My kids like in smoothies, or even a tuna spinach with avocado salad! Thank you for your comments!

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:38 PM

My family has a hard time handling dairy. We just started using ghee, I had never heard of it before! We are looking into getting a goat for milking as I cannot find a good supplier for raw goats milk. I'm hoping nobody responds badly to that.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:36 PM

Because Asia is fat, so are the many cultures that have potatoes as a staple… GI is not the problem. Carbs are not the problem. Total energy and activity levels are. You'd be hard-pressed to over-eat potatoes or rice.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:35 PM

I don't need my kids growing up thinking they should eat a crap load of fruit to be healthy. Ever look at a gorilla?

I realize the way we eat, we consume greater quantities of food. I need bigger pots and pans just to feed us at the same time!

I'm just trying to do right by my kids. Why are people on places like these so negative?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:34 PM

No, they're not low carb, you have a mother who wants to restrict carbohydrate unnecessarily… your kids are hungry, feed them. She's stuck in the paleo dogma and can't seem to escape.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:32 PM

Did I not say I'm going to add in more squash and sweet potatoes?I'm dead set on my kids not eating their weight in apples and oranges, yes, to that I will agree. I'm going to offer them more blackberries and blueberries as that is what we have in the freezer right now. As said below, oranges are loaded with sugar, real true sugars?yes! But sugars none the less. You do not know the whole story! I come from families with diabetes, and my inlaws as well. I am trim and healthy, as are my kids. Teaching my children proper eating habits and to have a good food relationship is important to me

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:15 PM

If you've even had gut pain, and tried daily bone broth, you'd see why many of us consider it a miracle for gut repair anyway. Nothing else can do that for the gut. But your right about gelatin, gelatin by itself doesn't do that much at all, as you say, eating meat gives it to you.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 28, 2014
at 12:58 PM

You've been dead set against the idea that lots of fruit/carbohydrate may be healthy from the start and have resists any responses that have suggested such. Seriously… why ask a question if you don't want advice?

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 11:53 AM

Probably if your insulin system is fitter, this would happen less (at a guess), and it probably does have some connection also to IR, and leptin, blood sugar dips, probably also reward. I see what your saying, but at the same time, the practical experience of people eating loads of carby foods tends to bear what I am saying out, generally speaking.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 11:52 AM

Potatoes probably swell in the stomach. You can't be hungry if your bloated, because stomach expansion triggers satiation (at least until in passes). Potatoes admitedly have low reward too, even if they are high GI, they don't have the kick of sugar. On a simple practical experience level, science aside, if you eat, say a candy bar, when you are mildly hungry, you'll find yourself more hungry as a byproduct a little later. Maybe thats the sugar dip, IDK. You see this with people snacking in the evening if they enjoy sugary products. Or obese people eating lots of starch

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 28, 2014
at 09:07 AM

Also use some spinach, I think it tastes raw alone good enough accompanied with something salty like a broth soup or salted avocado. Spinach is such a source of betaine that the other sources have incomparable amounts of it.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 28, 2014
at 07:19 AM

There's something wrong with your mood CDone, you better check that instead being offensive like this. You can also wash your conventional apples with washing liquids and eat the skin without much of an expense.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:17 AM

Well geez! We do love tea, but the kids opt for rooisbos, as do I. They like mint and such as well. I was waiting for someone to say organs...havent gone down that bunny hole yet.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 12:44 AM

This year, they ARE in the basement. Next year, im not sure as our basement is going byebye. How should they be stored? Im going to need a commercial grade fridge shortly! The plan will be to freeze most likelh

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 12:43 AM

Thank you...this is what I am trying. I definitely need to put away more pumpkin and carrots this next year . They are allowed as many carrots as they choose!

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 12:41 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3894001

In practice, it may well be this has more to do with leptin resistance, and insulin resistance (and insulin levels or low blood sugar levels versus GI), than directly being connected to insulin per se. But there is a relationship between carb consumption and hunger, insulin and hunger, even if its more complex than I have time to get into.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 12:34 AM

A reduction in insulin, reduces hunger. That's why smoking reduces hunger (nicotine lowers insulin). Insulin is released when we taste sugar in our mouths, which is why diet drink consumers consumer greater calories than sugar drink consumers (because they get the hunger without any of the satisfaction) . Its why snacking on sweets is a never ending cycle. Its pretty simple really. Perhaps I did not explain a context. But here's a study, for the heck of it, I am sure they have more time for detail today than I do:

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 12:29 AM

I doubt they are low carb. Sounds moderate carb for me, which is plenty for even atheletes (some fruit, some tubers, usually adds up to moderate carb, as you say, even if its not every day that they have starches)

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 12:27 AM

White rice is high GI. So are potatoes. Not the devil, but perhaps not ideal staples (especially as insulin is hunger inducing). Parsnip, sweet potatoes, carrots, squash, pumpkin etc are probably more moderate carbs to use as a carb baseline ....IMO.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 10:25 PM

I find it funny that I am being criticized HERE of all places for choosing organic! Waste much? Sorry, but whole thing is to be eaten, im not wasting my apples. If you cant be nice, stay out of my question.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 27, 2014
at 10:05 PM

You obviously are someone who goes on propaganda and not scientific evidence, so no need to engage further. I will say the whole, "Thanks but your an idiot" is very shallow. The bioavailability of the nutrients in the apple peel is very low. Quercitin is essentially the only nutrient that's even worth mentioning, and only a small fraction (10-15%) is actually absorbed by the body. If you want Quercitin (and you should) drink black tea. Vitamin C and A absorption is minimal, less than 20IU difference between the skin and the pulp.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 27, 2014
at 07:37 PM

Black/green/white tea is a bad option:

http://poisonfluoride.com/pfpc/html/green_tea___.html

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 27, 2014
at 07:35 PM

I do not think coffee is generally bad at all, it should be used in an appropriate amount with good timing. About 6 hours is enough to clean caffeine from the system so this means consuming anything with caffeine at least 6 hours before bedtime.

Also don't forget organ meats, especially liver and preferably poultry liver in my opinion for more methyl folate. Here's how Kresser explains one needs preformed vitamin A:

http://healthybabycode.com/why-you-cant-get-vitamin-a-from-eating-vegetables

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on February 27, 2014
at 07:34 PM

which squash? butternut lasts well into summer, and can be organic as it resists the vine borers. Are you sure you are storing them right? I lost many a squash in the basement. I stopped growing Hubbard because I have little space, the borers get it, and the outer shell is so tough I break knives when opening it, but I guarantee Hubbard will still be prime in early summer.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 07:26 PM

That is a bit over my head sadly...I know they don't like coffee though...I've offered.

Don't most paleo people say no to coffee? I've tried giving it up,but I truly like the taste.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 27, 2014
at 07:24 PM

Berries have less glycemic load and more in vivo antioxidant potential, there are some good results from them in some studies. Bananas have uncomparably low in vivo antioxidant potential and a little radioactivity. Citrus fruits have most of their goodness in the peel. The citrus peel easiest to eat is that of lemons among those I tried, then comes oranges and mandarins.

Editing: in vitro is the right term here, instead of in vivo, but it wouldn't surprise me if the similar was shown in vivo

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 27, 2014
at 07:13 PM

You may not have to restrict their food with a better macronutrient composition from good choices of foods. Coffee also has anti-opioid properties and other benefits and you can give it to 6 and 8 year olds in small amounts. You may resort to luo han extracts that doesn't include other things as a sweetener(not saying stevia because it is suspected to have some side effects).

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 07:11 PM

I think 1/2orange is a nice healthy treat, no? I have been buying frozen berries,they are a bit cheaper!not a fan of shopping big stores, but costco organic berries are good price! I take out a couple cups and we eat them with dinner, the kids love it!I am very upset that the tomato sauce I purchased has sugar in it...it seems to be the only label I overlooked in my shopping trip, I do limit everyone's sugar intake, we do still consume natural sugars, but in moderation for sure. I had to explain to my mil that letting them eat 10 oranges was far too much sugar, and she said "it is natural"

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 27, 2014
at 07:04 PM

Then gummies are a good idea. I don't think you should overstress yourself to have everything organic. You can just avoid the possible gmos and use food washing liquids like Environne and that water can be reused without much loss of efficiency. Animal foods are more important to be better treated, especially if you won't seperate the fat. I'm not recommending low carb but adequate carb from paleo sources for them. Sugar has opioid properties and is addictive and that is not good. I'd change bananas and oranges with berries, and that would make the transition to less fruits easier.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 06:04 PM

I do appreciate the help, but we make sacrifices so my kids get the best. By posting my question above, I was not implying we are poor. The opposite is true, we make an honest income, I just do not want to spend $400 a month on fruit so my kids can eat like pigs. I think they would over do it on the fruit...it is sweet...fruit is like candy to them

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on February 27, 2014
at 06:02 PM

Just cheaper. For the quantities that you or I need. If you need further info, google pesticides in fruits and vegetables. Apples are a long way from strawberries.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 06:02 PM

I do truly appreciate any help, but that is just plain ignorance. Peeling the apple reduces the amount of vitamins-the skin is good for the kids! "rinsing"...do you realize that they test the produce that is washed or rinsed in high power systems? I don't even use "REAL" lotion, soaps or the like on my kids, I am not about to have them ingest chemicals on purpose. It isn't the same as running tap water over it. NOT TO MENTION-I am a supporter of NON GMO and organic because it is better for the environment...you know the land my kids and their kids and their kids plan to live on?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 27, 2014
at 05:52 PM

"Rinsing and peeling of apples resulted in a 74.5−97.9% reduction in OP residues" ~

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf072408m

I would rather feed my children conventionally grown apples than either (a) sugary crap or (b) not enough. Rinse, Peel, enjoy.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:16 PM

I do believe that broth helps with illness, soup is good for the body, just not for us everyday! I freeze it for making soups instead! My kids also enjoy the gummies and occasional jello, I want my kids healthy AND happy and the treat does make them happy

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:06 PM

And I never saw squash that cheap here...maybe our farmers are greedy

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:05 PM

We grow our own squash. My kids do love it, but it is at its end right now (turning orange and getting tough) I'm considering canning or freezing cooked batches next year. This past summer was our first big garden and my son is now 18 months...a big garden with no experience and a nursing baby is a big undertaking for someone who has never had a garden in her life!

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:04 PM

I'm confused. You are saying non organic apples are better?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:03 PM

Bone broth is hype. If you're eating meat, you're getting gelatin.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:02 PM

I will not feed my kids conventional berries or apples. Avocados are conventional....but I live 10 miles from an apple orchard and driving by while they spray set my asthma on fire! I do believe in organic practices, I choose local over organic labels, but only with the right farmers...but I do not believe in eating poison...I didn't come this far to put harmful chemicals into my kids. I appreciate your comment...but my kids know why that conventional apple is perfectly shaped and huge...and why our non gmo organic apples cost a bit more.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:02 PM

"There is sufficient evidence, for me at least, that a growing child needs a modest dose of insulin to capture their genetic (vertical) growth potential. In fact, stunted growth is one of the documented side-effects of children on ketogenic diets, though there may be several factors accounting for that beyond the role of insulin and IGF."

"Everyone wants to know if my (non-epileptic) daughter is on a ketogenic diet. The answer is no. If I had to guess, she probably gets 40% of total calories in the form of carbohydrates, and very few of them are sugar."

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:01 PM

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:55 PM

What you are doing is commendable. I would carbs are good for growing kids, no need to restrict those.

Also, there is a misconception that organic = good, non-organic = bad. If you cannot afford organic produce, giving your children non-organic produce is still light years better than giving them Frosted-Flakes. Do the best you can, limit posionous things, but think about the absolute benefit to the child, not the relative benefit.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:41 PM

Hence my suggestion for squash. Kids like squash soup, I wonder why one should ever buy expensive, non-local avocados and sweet potatoes, when nutrition can be so cheap and close by. In fact, the squash I bought this year was (correcting above) $0.10/lb. It needs to be stored inside the house, dry, T>55F. The other things that go down well with them are cornmeal and well prepared (soaked, well cooked) lighter legumes, such as lentils, adzuki, or chickpeas. A little olive oil and salt on top, and they will eat it. Not as good as apples, carrots or squash, but gluten-free.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:28 PM

this works best with a) buying in Fall when they are cheapest b) not organic (consider that your organic apples have malice acid, caffeic acid, and some tannins. My Northern Spys were sprayed last in August, and picked more than two months later).

If you go to a local producer in Fall, (one site that lists them is orangepippin.com), they will tell you which ones can be stored. I have to have two freezers because I buy all meat and all apples in the Fall, and I make a single trip to the country. Two hours from the metro area, things are a lot cheaper than just outside it.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:14 PM

I really don't feel like they are low-carb. They may not have a sweet potato every single day but normally every other day they do. I could probably fix rice in the afternoon for them but I can't make it during dinner time. We switched from just gluten-free and dairy free to Paleo to cure my daughters gut problems,

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:04 PM

Do not feed kids low-carb. Rice, potatoes, etc… all appropriate for active growing humans.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 01:49 PM

This is why I want them eating carrots and eggs. I feel that too much fruit will have then wanting to eat all day and never filling up. The gummies are to get gelatin in them, try as I might, we hate bone broth! It is a small amount. The jello I make is from fruit, but it is not a meal but a treat.

Looks like I need to raise up 3xs as many turkeys this year and smoke them so se have lunch meat on hand!

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 01:45 PM

I love this idea, thank you! We just got a new fridge and the freezer is large, large enough that since we are about out of venison, I can probably use my chest freezer for fruit. I never thought of turning up the dial and using it as cold storage! I will call on the local coop Monday and see what a bushel of apples would run. Right how, cheapest I found for organic apples was 4$/3# I'm hoping they can get me them cheaper! Will they know if they are "storage" apples?

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 01:42 PM

I'd love to let them eat as often as they like, and I do with carrots and eggs...but if I'm to keep feeding them organic whole foods and not have to get a job just to feed them I cannot! I'm one of the only people with kids in this area who will not apply for food stamps, but instead chooses to do the best I can with what I have!

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 27, 2014
at 12:08 PM

You can also use a site like nutritiondata.com with the calorie requirement calculated. Though inflammation factor, nutritional target map and nutritiondata's opinion can be counterproductive, and the DVs not all set good enough, it is generally helpful.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on February 27, 2014
at 04:38 AM

Regarding latter point, what's your view of the study potatoes and satiety... Surely if insulin makes people hungry these people wouldn't report feeling sated? Or are you meaning that insulin being secreted produces hunger in a person earlier that if it were not? This isn't clear with what you say, and doesn't factor in the contextual points I mention...

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on February 27, 2014
at 04:38 AM

Saying 'insulin makes you hungry' though is simplistic and potentially misleading. The OP or anyone could infer eg that any insulin being secreted would increase hunger, regardless of what amount is secreted or whether that amount is pumped out in response to what macro it is (eg glucagon compensating for insulin wth respect to proteins). But mainly the staement is aboslute/without qualifcation and particularly doesn't factor in whether people are IR or have a well functinoing metabolic and broader system.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on February 27, 2014
at 04:38 AM

Maybe you mean 'insulin levels being above a certain level on average over a 24 hour period' makes people hungry and or 'having insulin spike and then blood sugar relatively depressing (ie returning to baseline or going below it)' makes people hungry. You don't mention IR and how people being resistant realtes fundamentally to why low carb people can spontesouly reduce carbs by feeling more satiated (ie, context...).

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:49 AM

Yes, of course. That's pretty well known. Thats why low-med carb tends to self-limit calories.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:35 AM

'Insulin makes you hungry'? Really...?

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 26, 2014
at 06:09 PM

They also have a "gummy" every day-made with gelatin and juice.

  • 148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

    asked by

    (5)
  • Views
    2.4K
  • Last Activity
    1593D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

9 Answers

best answer

0
8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 27, 2014
at 01:27 AM

My one thought here is that insulin makes you hungry, so _perhaps_ the fruit is increasing their hunger. You might wish to go for more lower sugar fruit like apples, pears & various berries (banana's for example, are pretty sweet). Kids do eat a crap ton anyway. So long as its not super high calorie stuff they are eating (like massive bags of nuts), and they are active, it should be okay. Its probably fine. Kids do have a higher basal metabolic rate, as well as higher levels of activity. In terms of rice etc, id just use sweet potatoes, parsnips, carrots, squash etc. Those are lower in GI than white rice. Less insulin = less hunger. But I do think it doesn't sound far off most kids. Kids are always intensive eaters.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:35 AM

'Insulin makes you hungry'? Really...?

0
47e3734690bfdcaaacbdbc0820c7173d

on February 28, 2014
at 07:09 AM

I have two kids and we are more on the perfect health diet version of paleo, so they do eat white rice and potatoes, pancakes made out if soaked buckwheat, various things made with tapioca, etc. I definitely think kids need carbs and I prefer their carbs are not all fruit sugars. They also eat dairy though (mostly yogurt, butter and cheese) and I think the extra fat from that helps keep them full.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 01:38 PM

My family has a hard time handling dairy. We just started using ghee, I had never heard of it before! We are looking into getting a goat for milking as I cannot find a good supplier for raw goats milk. I'm hoping nobody responds badly to that.

47e3734690bfdcaaacbdbc0820c7173d

(0)

on February 28, 2014
at 03:33 PM

I use ghee too- that's definitely worth a try.

I forgot to mention but if you haven't read child of mine, that's a great book on feeding kids and we follow her philosophy- basically parents are responsible for providing scheduled meals and snacks and nutritious foods. Kids are responsible for choosing what to eat (of what is served), how much of each item and whether to eat at all. My 5 yo is super picky and this has helped, over the long run. Anyway she is definitely against restricting food, rather giving kids the tools to learn self regulation.

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:08 PM

Low-carb paleo + kids is a terrible idea. Kids need energy, and that's carbohydrate as well as fat. Whole foods without restricting carbohydrate… it's unlikely they'll overeat, nearly impossible I imagine! Not saying to specifically feed them nothing but sugar, but to restrict carbohydrate does nothing for their overall health, and would arguably be detrimental.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:14 PM

I really don't feel like they are low-carb. They may not have a sweet potato every single day but normally every other day they do. I could probably fix rice in the afternoon for them but I can't make it during dinner time. We switched from just gluten-free and dairy free to Paleo to cure my daughters gut problems,

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:06 PM

And I never saw squash that cheap here...maybe our farmers are greedy

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on February 27, 2014
at 02:41 PM

Hence my suggestion for squash. Kids like squash soup, I wonder why one should ever buy expensive, non-local avocados and sweet potatoes, when nutrition can be so cheap and close by. In fact, the squash I bought this year was (correcting above) $0.10/lb. It needs to be stored inside the house, dry, T>55F. The other things that go down well with them are cornmeal and well prepared (soaked, well cooked) lighter legumes, such as lentils, adzuki, or chickpeas. A little olive oil and salt on top, and they will eat it. Not as good as apples, carrots or squash, but gluten-free.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:05 PM

We grow our own squash. My kids do love it, but it is at its end right now (turning orange and getting tough) I'm considering canning or freezing cooked batches next year. This past summer was our first big garden and my son is now 18 months...a big garden with no experience and a nursing baby is a big undertaking for someone who has never had a garden in her life!

0
47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 27, 2014
at 10:59 AM

You can go with :

http://www.webmd.com/diet/healthtool-metabolism-calculator

or one of:

http://www.pediatriconcall.com/fordoctor/pedcalc/basel_energy_expenditure.aspx

http://www.medindia.net/patients/calculators/resting-metabolic-rate.asp

and add activity requirement seperately. None is exact but generally helpful in determining a goal.

3# bag of apples, a 2# bunch of bananas and 2 oranges, gums with juices supply too much sugars for them and there are other complex carbs you consume also. In my opinion you should decrease the simple sugar intake. The younger a kid, the more developing his/her nervous system is, and that needs cholesterol, phosphatidyl serine, phosphatidyl choline, long chain omega 3s, b vitamins(significantly from animal food because they have them mostly in active forms, especially if methylating defects are likely), inositol, antioxidants, maybe others I do not know or did not remember, all of which can be sufficiently supplied with food.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:16 PM

I do believe that broth helps with illness, soup is good for the body, just not for us everyday! I freeze it for making soups instead! My kids also enjoy the gummies and occasional jello, I want my kids healthy AND happy and the treat does make them happy

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 01:49 PM

This is why I want them eating carrots and eggs. I feel that too much fruit will have then wanting to eat all day and never filling up. The gummies are to get gelatin in them, try as I might, we hate bone broth! It is a small amount. The jello I make is from fruit, but it is not a meal but a treat.

Looks like I need to raise up 3xs as many turkeys this year and smoke them so se have lunch meat on hand!

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20

(55)

on February 27, 2014
at 12:08 PM

You can also use a site like nutritiondata.com with the calorie requirement calculated. Though inflammation factor, nutritional target map and nutritiondata's opinion can be counterproductive, and the DVs not all set good enough, it is generally helpful.

0
56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on February 27, 2014
at 12:59 AM

Try getting apples at the source. Some of the lesser varieties, such as Jonathan or Idared, are $10/bushel. I keep them in a spare freezer (which cost $100 on craigslist) in the garage. The freezer is regulated by a brewing thermostat to be between 32 and 38F (although right now it is turned off, the garage is 14F, and I have to add jugs of water in there to prevent the apples from freezing). We eat about 8 bushels (384 lbs) from November to May, the cost is between 120 and 180 dollars, and no one is denied an apple. Just make sure you get mostly storage apples, and eat the non-storage first.

Stored carrots, too (but never stored with apples!) are $0.33/lb or so if bought in 50 lbs bags. They last at least four months in prime condition. Winter squash, if you know where to look, is $0.20/lb or less. These are all high carb veggies that do children good.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:04 PM

I'm confused. You are saying non organic apples are better?

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 01:45 PM

I love this idea, thank you! We just got a new fridge and the freezer is large, large enough that since we are about out of venison, I can probably use my chest freezer for fruit. I never thought of turning up the dial and using it as cold storage! I will call on the local coop Monday and see what a bushel of apples would run. Right how, cheapest I found for organic apples was 4$/3# I'm hoping they can get me them cheaper! Will they know if they are "storage" apples?

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 27, 2014
at 12:29 AM

they need as much as they want. if you are giving them real, whole foods than you should let them eat until they are satisfied.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:01 PM

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 01:42 PM

I'd love to let them eat as often as they like, and I do with carrots and eggs...but if I'm to keep feeding them organic whole foods and not have to get a job just to feed them I cannot! I'm one of the only people with kids in this area who will not apply for food stamps, but instead chooses to do the best I can with what I have!

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:02 PM

"There is sufficient evidence, for me at least, that a growing child needs a modest dose of insulin to capture their genetic (vertical) growth potential. In fact, stunted growth is one of the documented side-effects of children on ketogenic diets, though there may be several factors accounting for that beyond the role of insulin and IGF."

"Everyone wants to know if my (non-epileptic) daughter is on a ketogenic diet. The answer is no. If I had to guess, she probably gets 40% of total calories in the form of carbohydrates, and very few of them are sugar."

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 27, 2014
at 03:02 PM

I will not feed my kids conventional berries or apples. Avocados are conventional....but I live 10 miles from an apple orchard and driving by while they spray set my asthma on fire! I do believe in organic practices, I choose local over organic labels, but only with the right farmers...but I do not believe in eating poison...I didn't come this far to put harmful chemicals into my kids. I appreciate your comment...but my kids know why that conventional apple is perfectly shaped and huge...and why our non gmo organic apples cost a bit more.

0
148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

on February 26, 2014
at 11:22 PM

We go through a lot of sweet potatoes. I cut out rice and potatoes when we went paleo. My eldest loves lentils, but cannot handle them at all.

0
5890e9f25cd201f3915ad8b9d3bbad71

on February 26, 2014
at 10:54 PM

Try getting some good startches in there like potatoes/sweet potatoes/white rice.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on February 28, 2014
at 12:27 AM

White rice is high GI. So are potatoes. Not the devil, but perhaps not ideal staples (especially as insulin is hunger inducing). Parsnip, sweet potatoes, carrots, squash, pumpkin etc are probably more moderate carbs to use as a carb baseline ....IMO.

0
6e09555349d00cd7f5579745e315b17b

on February 26, 2014
at 10:08 PM

I would add back in the rice, pb (try almond butter?), and lentils. All things considered, they're pretty harmless, and kids need a crap ton of calories, so getting sufficient calories is probably more important than Paleo Purity.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on February 28, 2014
at 06:42 PM

Tsk Tsk Tsk. Neither lentils nor peanut butter are paleo, but if properly prepared lentils can be the least offensive of legumes. Ok on the almond butter.

148922320b1957d405eed2f0ddc85944

(5)

on February 28, 2014
at 07:26 PM

We were eating p.b. like mad for awhile, and lentils and her gas was horrible! We decided (with lots of reading and such) to go totally paleo as a family, kids included...so no lentils and pb

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!