2

votes

why is [a large bit of] this board obsessed with ketosis?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 17, 2012 at 1:37 AM

and

why do so many people assume they are in ketosis because they are LC/VLC?

in my experience it is not easy to remain in ketosis and takes a lot of measuring and fat-eating. eating 10g too many carbs or protein kicks me back into sugar burning.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 18, 2012
at 12:24 PM

@Harry since it was closed 5 new ketosis questions have popped up. Any of them could be closed as repetitive. There is definitely an obsession with the subject here.

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on October 18, 2012
at 06:46 AM

Paleo pets good

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 18, 2012
at 04:39 AM

How much autophagy is enough ambimorph? Some, or more? I'm happy with some, but you have a point that more might be better. And wisper, I think shivering is the whole point behind Kruse's cold tub idea.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 18, 2012
at 04:25 AM

why was this closed?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on October 17, 2012
at 07:15 PM

But thhq, ketosis has been shown to enhance autophagy significantly. That's the point.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 03:46 PM

That and paleo pets. Ketosis usually comes in the form of "why am I not losing weight on ketosis?" No matter how many times it's asked it's never closed as repetitive.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:24 PM

Well Christopher there have already been efforts to shut this question down. I think that some people have given a pretty good defense of ketosis, for weight loss and diabetes control in particular. Carb restriction gets you most of that however, so why go all the way? That I haven't seen so far.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:04 PM

And your point, Bbd5?

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:55 PM

See, answers like "Mambo's"...AKA fear mongering.....are why these questions on ketosis continue to be asked.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:53 PM

And for those actually interested there is a lot of relevant and in my opinion unbiased (though my opinion could be biased) information laid out here http://www.ketotic.org/.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:47 PM

^ to that point ambimorph wrote a great article http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:41 PM

It is "an" ancestral diet. One of em. So why not discuss it?

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:40 PM

My understanding was that gluconeogenesis rate was not protein dependent. Thats not to say that the body will not use protein itself as an energy substrate.

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on October 17, 2012
at 12:37 PM

Fine, challenge ketosis and ask for evidence. That's good stuff, and I'd like to know more too. "Obsessed," particularly applied to "this board" as a whole, just seems like hyperbole. I'm disappointed, however, that three people voted to close the question. That seems as bad as the hyperbole of the question. I guess some people find it easier to silence questions they don't like instead of ignoring or engaging them.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:24 PM

Yet some people here ARE obsessed with it and challenge others who don't see ketosis as a paleo norm. I think it's a useful hack because it called out people to defend it instead of the usual preaching to the choir about it.

366c23d69eadce094a2b22299c58a424

(2988)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:10 PM

Ditto. I have never worried about ketosis even for a moment, don't eat VLC (or possibly even LC, I guess it depends on your definition).

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:20 AM

Its not without its pros and cons, but statistically safer than paracetamol, especially after adaption.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:19 AM

In terms of the risks, according to the long history of treating epileptics with the diet, there are some. Kidney stones are the most common side effect. The rest are mostly very rare. I think though, it probably makes sense to slowly change to such a diet. theres a heck of alot of adaption involved, thousands of gene switches etc (epigenetics), and it seems likely any _real_ risks, however very very rare, lie in this; switching over too fast, as according to that material, they are early/initial effects.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:10 AM

In fact, our inability to cope with higher carbs (such as diabetes), when sedantary, is probably a lingering result of our ice age genetics according to some theorists on the matter. Makes sense really. May not apply to everyone, but its in our history for sure.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:07 AM

^ Whisper, except that humanity spent along time in just that condition during the ice age, and we would have died off if we couldnt cope with it. Making it pretty darn natural. It may or may not be totally optimal, and perhaps not for everyones genetic profile, but it should be something most people are capable of doing without major consequences (genetically), after adaption, and given proper specific nutrition for the diet (high electrolytes and minerals etc)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:01 AM

Everyone, please refrain from stupid, speculative arguments about macro's or low or high carb here. Its not even the question (which isnt even a real question). If you want a pointless verbal fight, find a seventh day adventist forum, and tell them god isnt real.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:59 AM

What the hell is a glucose deficiency when its at home? Studies please! (yes ive heard jaminet or whatever her name is speculate wildly, but thats pretty damn unconvincing, glucose can be made from fat or protein, and your blood sugar is maintained until the very moment you die of starvation). lol. Angry response, about a completely theoretical condition with no evidence whatsoever. And all to a post that was just a n=1. Jesus.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:54 AM

Interesting athropomorphism of the "board", and generalisation about it, that everyone is interested in ketosis. I guess ignoring the broadness of this brush, the answer is probably as a cure to various ailments : epilepsy, diabetes, manic depression or whatever. Plus quick weightloss.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:52 AM

Well I suppose people are probably putting protein glucose synthesis in with ketosis or ignoring it. That said you can be in ketosis, with higher carb/protein, if you use MCTs or coconut oil. Probably milk fats are the same (I am guessing, but they also dont require breakdown and go straight into the system). Also, everyone is in ketosis at some point of the day.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:46 AM

Oh wait, you don't have any. ZZzzzzzz

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:46 AM

This'll be the point at which you show us your extensive list of scientific research that demonstrates that low-carb is dangerous...

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:44 AM

This is obviously bullshit. It makes far more sense for me to avoid the known consequences of T2 diabetes, at the possible risk of increasing the speculitive consequences of "glucose deficiency".

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on October 17, 2012
at 09:56 AM

Shivering when hypothermia strikes is part of human physiology, but you don't see many people lingering in freezers on purpose. Going to such low carb levels as ketosis requires doesn't sound natural at all.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 17, 2012
at 05:44 AM

Nurslin, I looked up ketosis risks and found nothing. If you're gonna make the wild claim that ketosis is bad (it's not, it's a normal part of human physiology) you're gonna need some evidence and links to back it up.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:39 AM

I think it's because they're heavily invested in Paleo/Atkins books and theory. Paleo/Atkins is not the same thing as ancestral diet and lifestyle.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:32 AM

My brain asks me what's for breakfast every day but it's not a very inquiring mind.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:29 AM

I don't say my odyssey is superior to yours; just one of many paths away from T2D to low A1C and blood sugar control. My dr kicked off the whole thing with a foot exam, looking for telltale ulcers.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:24 AM

You continue your ketosis experiment and I'll continue my paleo/med odyssey. Let's meet up at the straits of Bosporus.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:21 AM

-1 because that's what autophagy does without the help of ketosis. And because I feel like spending a vote on it.

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:11 AM

4 syllables, boogie. Pol-y-mor-phism.

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:10 AM

Again, you're so one-dimensional in your thinking. What makes you think others should stay in ketosis? Maybe it's ok for you but it can be downright uncomfortable & unsafe for others. Yes, even for diabetics. You're equating BG control over everything else. Fact is, good BG control can be had while staying out of ketosis, and avoiding complications that could kickstart autoimmune reactions. Does it ever occur to your head that there is such a thing as glucose deficiency, that it is not infact a "low carb flu", that it's not the failure of implementation but incompatibility with a VLC diet?

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 17, 2012
at 03:26 AM

I'm a T2 diabetic. I do ketosis. My HbA1c = 4.9%. 'Nuff said.

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:35 AM

Bbd5, ketosis is not "SAFE". look up its risks.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:27 AM

Ketosis is SAFE. Not to be confused with ketoacidosis.

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:19 AM

ketosis also carries a bunch of risks when not maintained properly, and it isn't a sustainable way of life without significant supplementation and monitoring.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:12 AM

Do you have any scientific proof for “dead and mutated cells”? That's crap, really! Ketosis is a natural way of getting rid of excessive fat deposits, and ketosis improves brain function.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:10 AM

Just adding to anonymous's comment: type 1 diabetics deny Dr. Bernstein's low carb plan for some reason.

Fa666905e4ed72858084dbcfed164daf

(649)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:53 AM

Because Type I diabetics lose all sorts of weight and get all sexxy lean and dead when they don't inject their insulin therefore it's desirable to try to emulate that. (joking but pissed that that seems to be the ultimate desire here - leanness at all costs not deadness).

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6 Answers

8
A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on October 17, 2012
at 11:41 AM

I challenge the premise of the question. More than one person asking about/discussing the topic in no way resembles or suggests "obsession." And PH does not represent a monolithic community, but a loose collection of individuals, each with their own interests and points of view.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:41 PM

It is "an" ancestral diet. One of em. So why not discuss it?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:24 PM

Well Christopher there have already been efforts to shut this question down. I think that some people have given a pretty good defense of ketosis, for weight loss and diabetes control in particular. Carb restriction gets you most of that however, so why go all the way? That I haven't seen so far.

A7768b6c6be7f5d6acc76e5efa66464c

on October 17, 2012
at 12:37 PM

Fine, challenge ketosis and ask for evidence. That's good stuff, and I'd like to know more too. "Obsessed," particularly applied to "this board" as a whole, just seems like hyperbole. I'm disappointed, however, that three people voted to close the question. That seems as bad as the hyperbole of the question. I guess some people find it easier to silence questions they don't like instead of ignoring or engaging them.

366c23d69eadce094a2b22299c58a424

(2988)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:10 PM

Ditto. I have never worried about ketosis even for a moment, don't eat VLC (or possibly even LC, I guess it depends on your definition).

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:53 PM

And for those actually interested there is a lot of relevant and in my opinion unbiased (though my opinion could be biased) information laid out here http://www.ketotic.org/.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:24 PM

Yet some people here ARE obsessed with it and challenge others who don't see ketosis as a paleo norm. I think it's a useful hack because it called out people to defend it instead of the usual preaching to the choir about it.

5
B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 17, 2012
at 03:25 AM

Because I'm a T2 diabetic, and it's a much better alternative than getting my toes cut off and having my eyeballs start bleeding.

Got a better solution? Thought not...

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:29 AM

I don't say my odyssey is superior to yours; just one of many paths away from T2D to low A1C and blood sugar control. My dr kicked off the whole thing with a foot exam, looking for telltale ulcers.

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:11 AM

4 syllables, boogie. Pol-y-mor-phism.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:46 AM

Oh wait, you don't have any. ZZzzzzzz

5e92edc5a180787a60a252a8232006e9

(345)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:10 AM

Again, you're so one-dimensional in your thinking. What makes you think others should stay in ketosis? Maybe it's ok for you but it can be downright uncomfortable & unsafe for others. Yes, even for diabetics. You're equating BG control over everything else. Fact is, good BG control can be had while staying out of ketosis, and avoiding complications that could kickstart autoimmune reactions. Does it ever occur to your head that there is such a thing as glucose deficiency, that it is not infact a "low carb flu", that it's not the failure of implementation but incompatibility with a VLC diet?

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:44 AM

This is obviously bullshit. It makes far more sense for me to avoid the known consequences of T2 diabetes, at the possible risk of increasing the speculitive consequences of "glucose deficiency".

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:24 AM

You continue your ketosis experiment and I'll continue my paleo/med odyssey. Let's meet up at the straits of Bosporus.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:46 AM

This'll be the point at which you show us your extensive list of scientific research that demonstrates that low-carb is dangerous...

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 10:59 AM

What the hell is a glucose deficiency when its at home? Studies please! (yes ive heard jaminet or whatever her name is speculate wildly, but thats pretty damn unconvincing, glucose can be made from fat or protein, and your blood sugar is maintained until the very moment you die of starvation). lol. Angry response, about a completely theoretical condition with no evidence whatsoever. And all to a post that was just a n=1. Jesus.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on October 17, 2012
at 12:55 PM

See, answers like "Mambo's"...AKA fear mongering.....are why these questions on ketosis continue to be asked.

4
59fa7cd87fb9d669adf21e5cf3e7ada5

on October 17, 2012
at 12:19 PM

This board isn't obsessed with ketosis, it's obsessed with poop. There are a dozen poop threads for every ketosis thread.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 03:46 PM

That and paleo pets. Ketosis usually comes in the form of "why am I not losing weight on ketosis?" No matter how many times it's asked it's never closed as repetitive.

E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on October 18, 2012
at 06:46 AM

Paleo pets good

3
4430c600b097f03d9936f0ae8b6b0201

on October 17, 2012
at 02:01 AM

Ketosis helps clean out the body of dead and mutated cells. It lowers your chance of getting cancer and also makes it easy to lose weight and stay lean.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:12 AM

Do you have any scientific proof for “dead and mutated cells”? That's crap, really! Ketosis is a natural way of getting rid of excessive fat deposits, and ketosis improves brain function.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:20 AM

Its not without its pros and cons, but statistically safer than paracetamol, especially after adaption.

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:19 AM

ketosis also carries a bunch of risks when not maintained properly, and it isn't a sustainable way of life without significant supplementation and monitoring.

0a9ad4e577fe24a6b8aafa1dd7a50c79

(5150)

on October 17, 2012
at 05:44 AM

Nurslin, I looked up ketosis risks and found nothing. If you're gonna make the wild claim that ketosis is bad (it's not, it's a normal part of human physiology) you're gonna need some evidence and links to back it up.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:10 AM

In fact, our inability to cope with higher carbs (such as diabetes), when sedantary, is probably a lingering result of our ice age genetics according to some theorists on the matter. Makes sense really. May not apply to everyone, but its in our history for sure.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on October 17, 2012
at 07:15 PM

But thhq, ketosis has been shown to enhance autophagy significantly. That's the point.

76211ec5301087de2588cfe3d6bccba9

(1178)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:35 AM

Bbd5, ketosis is not "SAFE". look up its risks.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:21 AM

-1 because that's what autophagy does without the help of ketosis. And because I feel like spending a vote on it.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 18, 2012
at 04:39 AM

How much autophagy is enough ambimorph? Some, or more? I'm happy with some, but you have a point that more might be better. And wisper, I think shivering is the whole point behind Kruse's cold tub idea.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 17, 2012
at 02:27 AM

Ketosis is SAFE. Not to be confused with ketoacidosis.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on October 17, 2012
at 09:56 AM

Shivering when hypothermia strikes is part of human physiology, but you don't see many people lingering in freezers on purpose. Going to such low carb levels as ketosis requires doesn't sound natural at all.

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:07 AM

^ Whisper, except that humanity spent along time in just that condition during the ice age, and we would have died off if we couldnt cope with it. Making it pretty darn natural. It may or may not be totally optimal, and perhaps not for everyones genetic profile, but it should be something most people are capable of doing without major consequences (genetically), after adaption, and given proper specific nutrition for the diet (high electrolytes and minerals etc)

Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on October 17, 2012
at 11:19 AM

In terms of the risks, according to the long history of treating epileptics with the diet, there are some. Kidney stones are the most common side effect. The rest are mostly very rare. I think though, it probably makes sense to slowly change to such a diet. theres a heck of alot of adaption involved, thousands of gene switches etc (epigenetics), and it seems likely any _real_ risks, however very very rare, lie in this; switching over too fast, as according to that material, they are early/initial effects.

2
E6c14efded576a0bea38a2fe2beced6a

on October 17, 2012
at 12:17 PM

The real question for me is why are so many people obsessed with what other people think and do.

I am always curious about what other people have done, but nothing will ever beat N=1 no matter how obsessed everyone else may seem.

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:42 AM

I recently asked if my brain can use ketones from coconut oil's MCT while pushing glucose to muscles and other glucose-dependent organs. They answered, yes (about the brain), but were silent about the rest :)

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on October 17, 2012
at 01:04 PM

And your point, Bbd5?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 17, 2012
at 04:32 AM

My brain asks me what's for breakfast every day but it's not a very inquiring mind.

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