I've done ketosis before and am trying it out again for a few weeks before my trip down to San Diego. Honestly I'm trying to get from 10% bf to around 8% or so (not a Paleo reason...sue me). My main concern is loss of muscle despite hearing it is a "muscle sparing diet". I'm currently 5'11" and a bit over 190 lbs. Typically I eat higher cal/protein on heavy lifting days (Tues-Thurs, Sun) and then fast and eat less on other days (Mon/Fri/Sat). The problem with ketosis is that I need to keep my protein at 170g while I would typically get up to 200g on my heavy days...this (in my mind) helped to build muscle and provide enough protein for my body during fasting days (and it's worked quite well). THE QUESTION: Is there a danger of muscle loss if I keep my protein to 170b on lifting days and only hit around 100g on fasting days? I've read "How Much Protein" and that is slightly helpful, but curious what the Paleohackers have to say. Thanks!
asked byDesmond (2312)
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on August 23, 2014
at 10:07 PM
You're probably right about keeping your protein to 170g or less. If it were me, I would monitor blood ketones to find your protein tolerance level. Start at 170g and work your way up until you're out of ketosis, or work your way down from 200g until you're in ketosis. Remember that if you're not in ketosis and you're running a calorie deficit, you're more likely to lose more muscle and less fat (hence why a traditional bodybuilder plan is to bulk and then lose - not do both at the same time), whereas ketosis is in itself more protective against muscle loss because of the fat-adaptation. Especially since you're looking to do this in such a short time frame, I would start at 170g or less. "The Art and Science of Low Carboyhydrate Living" is a great guide - maybe "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance" would be better for your question. (Unfortunately I haven't read that one yet.)
on August 21, 2014
at 11:04 PM
Ketosis is not a magical *bodyfat* burner. Mostly you are burning the fat in your diet. Calorie restriction is #1.
That at being said, in my ketosis experiment I got up to 300g of protein without dropping out if ketosis.
on August 21, 2014
at 03:57 PM
I found i could maintain and even gain a bit when VLC as long as i was working out and eating around 70-120g protein, so at 100-170g i think you'll maintain your muscle mass easily as long as you keep using it, i don't think you'll technically be in ketosis all the time with that much protein and as a result you may not cut all the bodyfat you want to, but maybe the bodyheat from that protein will help and the times you are in ketosis will be enough to shift that 2%.
I think you'll still reach your goal regardless, i find when i drop out carbs no matter what else i do my bodyfat plummets fast, but if i go too low on protein and/or don't work out i lose lean mass just as fast, or so it seems.
It's like we're swapping diets at the moment, i was VLC for a couple years with some refeeds but now upping my daily carbs trying to bulk, and you're currently lowering carbs trying to cut. All the best!
on August 24, 2014
at 01:40 AM
if you're not in ketosis and you're running a calorie deficit, you're more likely to lose more muscle and less fat -- No that is absolutely wrong
hence why a traditional bodybuilder plan is to bulk and then lose - not do both at the same time -- again, wrong. You bulk by eating more calories, you lose by cutting calories. Ketosis is not part of the equation.
whereas ketosis is in itself more protective against muscle loss because of the fat-adaptation -- again, wrong. Ketosis has no effect on muscle loss given proper protein levels. Fat-adaptation has been debunked. People in ketosis, then fasting do not burn more body fat that a "sugar burner" who does the same thing at teh same caloric deficit.