2

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Ketosis -vs- vegetables is the trade off worth it?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 30, 2011 at 6:00 AM

What are the advantages of Ketosis that make it more valuable than consuming vegetables?

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on June 01, 2011
at 05:12 PM

My understanding that ketsosis is both the normal and the *preferred* state for human metabolism most of the time. Where it might be detrimental I suppose would be if a body has been pushed into an extreme state (obesity, diabetes, etc) through a life-long high-carb diet, and the transition to rapid fat loss and ketosis might be stressful to some. But I'd be curious what's meant here. Sometimes the word "stressful" is so vague it doesn't mean anything, like saying that meat-eating is "stressful" on the kidneys - which it isn't.

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on June 01, 2011
at 04:45 PM

I believe in the Atkins diet you buy strips to get a reading from your pee. In my case I can *smell* it in my pee, when I've eaten very little except for fat during the day. Also: *you are in ketosis every morning before breakfast*. Unless you get up in the middle of the night to eat carbs your body has consumed what little blood glucose is available and has switched to burning fat (thus ketosis).

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 31, 2011
at 07:16 PM

In what way do you think ketosis can be detrimental, Andrew? Any research on that?

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on May 31, 2011
at 05:28 PM

I think it probably goes further than not reward. In those who it's no indicated for, ketosis may cause undue bodily stress. That is to say, ketosis can be detrimental.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on May 30, 2011
at 05:00 PM

Not based on any percentage but nighshades are usually singled out as the first vegetables to be excluded if experimenting. Also oxalate-rich plants.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on May 30, 2011
at 04:22 PM

Which plant(s) matter is often most offensive?

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 30, 2011
at 03:05 PM

Ben, I appreciate your specificity on the topic of plant matter. I've suspected that for me, and for a few others like me, the problem of plants isn't so much the relatively small amount of carbohydrate (as people have noted here, you can eat plants and still be in ketosis), but the defensive chemical compounds manufactured by plants. Most people, I think, deal with those fairly well, whereas I think some of us don't.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on May 30, 2011
at 12:47 PM

I like that second paragraph there. I think probably keeping it random and keeping the body guessing does indeed offer some reward. Can I ask if while doing this "random feeding" can we call it(?), do you notice a difference in performance in any of the following: mental clarity, sporting performance, bedroom, general energy throughout the lull of the afternoon.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on May 30, 2011
at 08:44 AM

Definitely, I eat excessive non-starch veges (the majority of veges!) and I can't get out of ketosis!

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7 Answers

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4
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on May 30, 2011
at 12:45 PM

I would say that ketosis seems to offer benefits kind of across the board for those individuals experiencing autoimmune diseases, obesity, overweight, metabolic syndrome, or a bunch of other illnesses. For those people, many times the offending element that has brought them to their current dilemma is indeed one or a variety of things from the plant world.

Keep in mind I am not a carbohydrate basher. Read my posts and you will see that I consume more starch than most people on these boards.

Exclusion of most plant matter from the diet is usually the route people take to enter ketosis and so that route itself eliminates a lot of the potential offenders.

For people that are not ill however - athletes, athletic normal joes, lifters, sport people, sprinters, etc - i do not think ketosis offers much reward.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 30, 2011
at 03:05 PM

Ben, I appreciate your specificity on the topic of plant matter. I've suspected that for me, and for a few others like me, the problem of plants isn't so much the relatively small amount of carbohydrate (as people have noted here, you can eat plants and still be in ketosis), but the defensive chemical compounds manufactured by plants. Most people, I think, deal with those fairly well, whereas I think some of us don't.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on May 31, 2011
at 05:28 PM

I think it probably goes further than not reward. In those who it's no indicated for, ketosis may cause undue bodily stress. That is to say, ketosis can be detrimental.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on May 30, 2011
at 04:22 PM

Which plant(s) matter is often most offensive?

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on May 30, 2011
at 05:00 PM

Not based on any percentage but nighshades are usually singled out as the first vegetables to be excluded if experimenting. Also oxalate-rich plants.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 31, 2011
at 07:16 PM

In what way do you think ketosis can be detrimental, Andrew? Any research on that?

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on June 01, 2011
at 05:12 PM

My understanding that ketsosis is both the normal and the *preferred* state for human metabolism most of the time. Where it might be detrimental I suppose would be if a body has been pushed into an extreme state (obesity, diabetes, etc) through a life-long high-carb diet, and the transition to rapid fat loss and ketosis might be stressful to some. But I'd be curious what's meant here. Sometimes the word "stressful" is so vague it doesn't mean anything, like saying that meat-eating is "stressful" on the kidneys - which it isn't.

8
1d9af5db8833413037be3ac48964714f

on May 30, 2011
at 11:45 AM

You can be in ketosis and eat (non-starchy) vegetables, especially with intermittent fasting and a high consumption of healthy fats.

Personally, I try to dip into ketosis randomly and intermittently without trying to be in it all the time--sometimes moderate carb, sometimes low carb or zero carb, sometimes lots of food, sometimes less. That allows for metabolic flexibility (ability to readily use whatever is available for fuel) and avoid insulin resistance. It also seems most likely how our pre-agricultural ancestors lived much of the time.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on May 30, 2011
at 12:47 PM

I like that second paragraph there. I think probably keeping it random and keeping the body guessing does indeed offer some reward. Can I ask if while doing this "random feeding" can we call it(?), do you notice a difference in performance in any of the following: mental clarity, sporting performance, bedroom, general energy throughout the lull of the afternoon.

7
3c49f67b3c8c0b580e89fdba0b95a8e8

on May 30, 2011
at 07:16 AM

I don't think you have to choose one or the other. I've been in ketosis while consuming veggies.

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on May 30, 2011
at 08:44 AM

Definitely, I eat excessive non-starch veges (the majority of veges!) and I can't get out of ketosis!

4
Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on May 31, 2011
at 05:22 PM

I went 'low carb' for some time before discovering only recently that I was 'in ketosis' - though probably I was to some degree from the beginning.

What really kicked it off was my frustration with the food choices at work (what? Bring my own lunch? Surely you jest!). So sometimes I'd just have a couple tablespoons of coconut oil to stave off hunger. I was also walking up the sixteen flights to my floor at work. After a day or two of doing this randomly, I noticed that I could really smell it in my pee - sort of strong like that smell most people (with the right gene) get from asparagus, but less sharp, muskier. A little googling and I realized it was full-on ketosis.

It was utterly easy by the way. I think where people get challenged is in trying to 'balance' some amount of carbs in their diet. For me it's pretty much all-or-nothing - I'm incapable of 'counting' and even a little will kick of addictive cravings.

After reading Good Calories Bad Calories I learned something utterly new to me: that our body's cells not only consume both glucose and fatty acids, but that they actually prefer the fatty acids as the main energy source. And if they need glucose (as in the brain) it's manufactured on demand. This process is the normal optimum for humans. This was a huge mind-shift for me; I had always assumed we needed sugar and fat was the unwelcome artifact in the system - but the opposite is true.

None of this answers the original 'advantages' question, but I think it's this: the body 'relearns' how to operate according to its design.

In the constant crisis of excess sugar nonstop for decades, our bodies get trained to expect to metabolize sugar and not fat. This is stressful for the body in many ways (problems of chronically excessive insulin, nutrients are not transported, bad byproducts create and of course fat gain, etc). Ketosis is the body's preferred and natural state, and 'going into ketosis' is a way of getting the body to not be in such crisis all the time and process nutrients in a more healthy way.

4
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 30, 2011
at 06:09 AM

For me, my RA joint pain goes away, depression goes away, microseizures go away, and so does the ravenous hunger that used to consume me (not so much on VLC, but even that improved on ZC).

But for others, depending on their physical starting point and their goals, the tradeoff may not be worth it at all.

1
332d9f75d1077abafff6887681f6b130

on May 31, 2011
at 07:10 PM

Forgive my ignorance on this, but how do you know if you are in ketosis?

Fe29f6658ce67c1ecc4a22e960be7498

(2997)

on June 01, 2011
at 04:45 PM

I believe in the Atkins diet you buy strips to get a reading from your pee. In my case I can *smell* it in my pee, when I've eaten very little except for fat during the day. Also: *you are in ketosis every morning before breakfast*. Unless you get up in the middle of the night to eat carbs your body has consumed what little blood glucose is available and has switched to burning fat (thus ketosis).

1
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on May 31, 2011
at 05:35 PM

Ketosis and Veggies are not mutually exclusive. 5.8 grams of total carbs in a cup of broccoli, 2.2 of which is fiber. Even 5x this amount isn't enough to throw any normal LC person out of ketosis.

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