1

votes

Ketosis to conquer skinny-fat look?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 25, 2012 at 9:56 PM

Hey folks, specs: 132 lbs 5,7 feet 19 year old male

Back in my SAD (Standard danish diet, really) days i had a pretty low bodyfat percentage, mostly due to an anorexic diet. I lost this as my endocrine system finally conquered my resolve and i began eating lots of unhealthy food. Now i am borderline skinny fat and i'd like to ditch this with a healthy diet. My idea is:

1700 cals a day (mild caloric restriction)

18/7 IF 2 days a week (longer periods has a tendency to result in binges i find)

40-60 grams of carbs a day (i aim for nutritional ketosis)

4-6 hours of walking per week, 10 mins of sprinting and strength training three times (the Sisson program as you'll notice)

Does this seem reasonable? Should i avoid dairy - im thinking full-fat ice cream - or should ice cream a few times a week be fine?

I know alot of people would recommend more carbohydrate - but i find that VLC minimizes cravings whereas the inclusion of fruit or even just veggies will often make me crave more carbohydrates.

Thanks!

Bd614f091f0625dea86bad5791471f2d

(775)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:47 AM

I think so, based on my experience. If you eat nutrient-dense foods and stay away from the sugar you really can't go wrong. Taking time for stress relief is also important, so don't forget to enjoy life!

Af939911afa817f79a4625d4f503c735

(552)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:46 PM

As someone else pointed out, if you're new to weight lifting, you may be able to build muscle and lean out at the same time. Try it out for a good six weeks or so and see how you do. Good luck!

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:28 PM

That is correct. Eating at maintenance wont solve the fat issue, however, right? so your reccomendation would be to establish a thoroughly healthy relationship to food and then proceed to work on the fat issue?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:18 PM

I already eat real food - but i've had a very liberal relationship to my carbohydrate/fat ratio. I'll often snack on lots of vegetables simply because i love them. Your argument against caloric restriction is sound. Would an adequate amount of calories, nutritional ketosis and physical activity do it alone you think?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:15 PM

Renee: thats the thing. I'm not a 'definite' case of skinnyfat - but im physique is on its way there. Wont i ether have to cut or bulk? and since my primary problem is excess fat, shouldnt i get rid of that before i attempt to build muscle?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:12 PM

3-5000!? with my build + complete lack of muscles i figured i'd be burning something like 1900-2000 a day. That said, more activity and less caloric-obsession seems like a better way to go. Caloric restriction is looking less and less compelling Thanks for the answer btw

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:56 PM

You may not gain mass, but you will definitely increase the amount of lean mass preserved in a caloric deficit by adding resistance training. Doing 1-2 sessions of compound lifts to failure per week is plenty.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:54 PM

Thats good stuff alexander....and heres another great ice cream recipe http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2008/08/food-optimal-ice-cream.html

Af939911afa817f79a4625d4f503c735

(552)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:42 PM

I really think you'd be best served to focus on eating plenty of good foods and building muscle. You're not overweight, and you need to establish a good relationship with food. Don't over-complicate the process.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:37 PM

As far as I know, your body cannot build muscle on a caloric deficit. If you are underweight and you gain weight, some of it the weight you gain will be muscle too, no exercise required. In other words, it won't all come back as fat. Sorry I gave the advice about the gym before carefully reading your profile. My thought is you need to eat more. And lots of protein especially. And some moderate exercise but lots of walking is just gonna keep you in a caloric deficit. You need a surplus. I'm not sure about guy weights though - what's the ideal for you?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:27 PM

You could be right. I'm not anorexic anymore but my food relationship is still, erh, spicy. I tend to hyper-snack and i find that some moderate IF will actually help this and prevent cravings whereas too much will have the opposite effect.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:25 PM

I figured i'd have to get rid of the fat before i tried to add muscle for real. I know cutting and bulking doesn't have to be adverse but even on a paleo diet it seems like they often are somewhat.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:24 PM

Also I don't think people with a history of restriction (anorexia) should be IFing. As you said, really sets you up to binge. Eat regular meals and lots of protein and fat. Eat MORE, too! 1700 is not enough.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:23 PM

Gym .. Dont say that word ;) My rationale is that if i could starve myself into a low bodyfat with an inferior diet during my highschool years, a superior diet featuring some physical activity and a slightly reduced caloric intake would surely take care of the problem?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:22 PM

By full-fat ice cream i mean: Homemade, sugarless ice cream made purely from full-fat dairy, a few eggs and berries if i have some. How does that classify as junk food?

Af939911afa817f79a4625d4f503c735

(552)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:10 PM

If it's just body *composition* that you're concerned with, why the caloric deficit? To build muscle, lift some heavy weights and eat plenty of protein (and plenty of good food in general). If you like IF, check out Lean Gains.

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8 Answers

2
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:55 PM

at 5'7" 132 lbs -- you need to build muscle, not just get strong. Eat Big Lift Big follow a program like strong lifts or leangains.

2
F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:53 PM

Don't do the calorie deficit. Just work out hard. Lift heavy, run sprints. Eat all the homemade ice cream you want. At your age and your gender, you ought to be able to eat 3000-5000 calories and have a lean, muscular body so long as you get out there and USE your body. All a calorie deficit will do for YOU is make you sluggish, tired and skinny fat.

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:12 PM

3-5000!? with my build + complete lack of muscles i figured i'd be burning something like 1900-2000 a day. That said, more activity and less caloric-obsession seems like a better way to go. Caloric restriction is looking less and less compelling Thanks for the answer btw

1
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19413)

on August 26, 2012
at 10:55 AM

Go easy on the dairy, whey is insulogenic. Heavy cream probably won't have too much of it. Before you decide on 1700 kcals, check your basal metabolic rate to see how much you really need. 1700 may be too low, especially if you're doing sprints.

Going low calories and working out will release a ton of cortisol which will prevent fat loss since your body thinks you're going into starvation. Doing IF, and CR, and limiting carbs, and doing HIIT is a recipe for disaster. Aim for slower fat loss and muscle gain instead.

If you're going to do IF/CR, don't restrict carbs. If you're going to run/sprint, make sure you don't restrict carbs.

You can restrict carbs if all you're doing is weight lifting, but be sure to get some an hour after your work out, and make sure to get plenty of good protein, and don't restrict fats at the same time.

You can't do all of the above and get good results. Pick one path only, not 3.

1
Bd614f091f0625dea86bad5791471f2d

(775)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:54 PM

When I followed a strict vegan diet, I always had the skinny-fat thing going. I'm 5'7 and at the time I weighed about 127 pounds. I always struggled with belly fat until I switched to a real food/grain free diet. I weigh 20 pounds less now and actually have trouble putting on weight.

I know this is only my personal experience, but perhaps switching to real food alone may bring you the results you're looking for. I think your exercise program sounds good, but I don't think calorie restriction is a good idea. It can raise cortisol levels, which increase abdominal fat, and can take away your enjoyment of food. http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/72/4/357.abstract

Bd614f091f0625dea86bad5791471f2d

(775)

on August 26, 2012
at 01:47 AM

I think so, based on my experience. If you eat nutrient-dense foods and stay away from the sugar you really can't go wrong. Taking time for stress relief is also important, so don't forget to enjoy life!

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:18 PM

I already eat real food - but i've had a very liberal relationship to my carbohydrate/fat ratio. I'll often snack on lots of vegetables simply because i love them. Your argument against caloric restriction is sound. Would an adequate amount of calories, nutritional ketosis and physical activity do it alone you think?

0
963322f175cdd4c5f7d52cc372b3a167

on August 26, 2012
at 06:59 AM

Sure. It's done wonders for Jimmy Moore.

0
C2ecbc6f2948c232d60a639c50b7f4f9

(504)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:31 PM

you have to build muscle, you can either go into calorie surplus and gain muscle (if you have previous years of weight training) or do a body recomposition where you eat at maintenance calories, and your body will gradually burn adipose tissue and build muscle at the same time (this is can be easily acheived if you are new to weight lifting) however after a while your body stops this because it gets used to it, typically you see good gains with body recompostion for a couple of monthes and then you hit a plateu. whatever your goals, i wish you best of luck.

0
F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:10 PM

I am also kinda skinny-fat, and my sense is the only way to really reverse it is to build muscle. Like in the gym...

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 11:15 PM

Renee: thats the thing. I'm not a 'definite' case of skinnyfat - but im physique is on its way there. Wont i ether have to cut or bulk? and since my primary problem is excess fat, shouldnt i get rid of that before i attempt to build muscle?

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:23 PM

Gym .. Dont say that word ;) My rationale is that if i could starve myself into a low bodyfat with an inferior diet during my highschool years, a superior diet featuring some physical activity and a slightly reduced caloric intake would surely take care of the problem?

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:56 PM

You may not gain mass, but you will definitely increase the amount of lean mass preserved in a caloric deficit by adding resistance training. Doing 1-2 sessions of compound lifts to failure per week is plenty.

F92e4ca55291c3f3096a3d4d3d854986

(11698)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:37 PM

As far as I know, your body cannot build muscle on a caloric deficit. If you are underweight and you gain weight, some of it the weight you gain will be muscle too, no exercise required. In other words, it won't all come back as fat. Sorry I gave the advice about the gym before carefully reading your profile. My thought is you need to eat more. And lots of protein especially. And some moderate exercise but lots of walking is just gonna keep you in a caloric deficit. You need a surplus. I'm not sure about guy weights though - what's the ideal for you?

-1
9e3bf43de29f66e5bb7be9c7d176b5e1

on August 25, 2012
at 10:18 PM

Why in God's name would you even ask about ice cream if you want to reduce body fat? Carbs are not necessarily the enemy, junk food and refined sugar, however, ARE. A moderate amount of walking is good and healthy, but you aren't actually burning that many calories from it. You're almost certainly negating any caloric deficit and metabolic advantage your stated workout plan gives you by eating junk foods.

Try incorporating leangains techniques, and if possible HIT training. Lower carb/higher fat on rest days, higher carb/lower fat on training days. Since I train fasted, I eat higher carbs on my last meal of the day the day BEFORE my workout to fill up my glycogen tanks. The trend that I'm starting to see both on here and elsewhere is that a well informed cyclical diet plan, whether it be CKD, alternate day fasting, Leangains, or even something like Tim Ferris' plan, has huge advantages over just a static flatline diet.

While I've yet to carb up as much as lean gains recommends even on training days, I have made a conscience effort to eat more on them. At first I was having trouble mustering the appetite to do so. Lately I find my body actually craving as much as 300 g protein from whole foods. I'm talking up to 2 lbs of grass fed beef AND 100 g of protein from sardines. That's a lot of food to fit in one's belly, and that doesn't even count the vegetables I eat that day for carbs.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:54 PM

Thats good stuff alexander....and heres another great ice cream recipe http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2008/08/food-optimal-ice-cream.html

4fce8590b5453d379dddeaa649955eb9

(173)

on August 25, 2012
at 10:22 PM

By full-fat ice cream i mean: Homemade, sugarless ice cream made purely from full-fat dairy, a few eggs and berries if i have some. How does that classify as junk food?

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