4

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Ketosis, Bikram, and Fasting

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 12, 2012 at 6:52 PM

I'm interested in a Ketogenic diet. I already do a mostly paleo (and consequently, low carb diet) but still have carb/sugar cravings.

I've been meaning to do a short fast with the hopes of kickstarting a lighter, cleaner, ketogenic diet and ridding some of said cravings.

I mostly practice bikram yoga, and bodyweight/kettlebell tabata regiments.

Anyone have experience with fasting/ketogenic diet and similar exercise.

Edit: A.) Is there a significant benefit to fasting before starting a ketogenic diet? B.) Has anyone done a short fast while continuing a Bikram practice?

744342f7ec832d8be55df79dbc067ebd

(76)

on January 13, 2012
at 06:30 PM

Actually, Bikram always seems best for me when I have not eaten prior. So if I go in the morning without breakfast or otherwise fasted.

744342f7ec832d8be55df79dbc067ebd

(76)

on January 13, 2012
at 06:24 PM

So I meant each day I have been doing a 23 hour fast. On day 5 now. I usually do my Bikram at 4:30pm, today it will be noon. I have been eating "big Ass Salads" and burgers with homemade guac as well as some roasted butternut squash. I do drink some tea during the day when I am at the office. Ken

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 13, 2012
at 04:55 PM

Andrew is talking about ketogenic diets, exercise, cravings, and fasting. Probably too many things at one time. It can be done, but you have to balance. Maybe he can do it without carbs after exercise- but he ought to eat after exercise and have some carbs on hand in case. Otherwise he'll end up eating junk. My post was aimed at him having success, not in maintaining ketosis 24/7. He'd still be in ketosis most of the time if he only ate carbs after exercise.

D826ee7c5f65d509348f7fe8aeeafdd4

(368)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:31 PM

Probably 3 days

D826ee7c5f65d509348f7fe8aeeafdd4

(368)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:29 PM

What time of day do you do Bikram? And how big of a meal do you eat afterwards? I usually take a 6:30 am class, have a coconut water immediately afterwards and my appetite is suppressed for several hours afterwards... My bikram days now are essentially a short fast until I make dinner. I'm interested to see how I'll feel if I continue the fast. Thanks

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:22 PM

How do you fit 4 days into 23 hours?! Oh...

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:21 PM

Needing to eat carbs to replenish glycogen after a bit of yoga is ketogenic?

Fe87afa634afe26f4f6fd956abe0b46a

(565)

on January 13, 2012
at 01:40 AM

I don't know what kind of studio your friend went to, but I can tell you that this is absolutely not true as far as any Bikram studio I have ever seen. The best part of the class is when it's over and all the windows are opened and you feel the cool, outside air rush in! I can't imagine how nasty the air would be in a studio like your friend described.

Ed983a42344945b1ff70fd9597a23493

on January 13, 2012
at 01:20 AM

How long will your short fast be?

Ed983a42344945b1ff70fd9597a23493

on January 13, 2012
at 01:18 AM

Not really, you can eat some starch and still be practicing a ketogenic diet.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 12, 2012
at 07:39 PM

That's kinda missing the point of a ketogenic diet.

D826ee7c5f65d509348f7fe8aeeafdd4

(368)

on January 12, 2012
at 07:11 PM

Edited! Fully anticipating negative comments :)

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 12, 2012
at 06:56 PM

Could you try and phrase this as more of a specific question? It would save people (a) relating their life story or (b) being negative about fasting and telling you what you should do instead.

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8 Answers

3
363d0a0277a8b61ada3a24ab3ad85d5a

(4642)

on January 12, 2012
at 07:10 PM

If water fasting, I would not do any real physical exercise, and get plenty of rest, from personal experience. It does jump you into ketosis pretty fast.

3
A03a8c971145965630283ff0b47484a0

on January 12, 2012
at 07:08 PM

I am relatively new to Paleo, but I do some IF that kicks me into Ketosis.

For example, yesterday I did almost a 24 hour fast not eating 7pm to 7pm except a couple of slices of salami. When I first started Paleo, which was the same time as starting CrossFit, I was seeing 1 pound per day weight loss. This dropped off after 10 days, but when I throw in a little IF, I see weight loss pretty similar. (Started at 202 in Nov. 2011 and I am currently 180 heading for 170). I have good energy through the day, and I do a morning workout so I am not too hungry when I workout.

Some people say that ketosis eats muscle, but my anecdotal experience is nice gains in strength doing the same workouts from Dec. to Jan. during which I was in and out of ketosis. Point being that if it was that detrimental to muscle I wouldn't expect to be getting better at my lifts.

Also, I notice that even though my weight isn't changing alot (muscle is heavier than fat right?), my leanness is changing and I see a difference there when I get Ketosis to kick in after a couple of days.

My last point, is that it doesn't take much to get out of ketosis, which is why I do IF. I follow strict Paleo almost 100% (had a little dark chocolate that had sugar in it last night). If I am in Ketosis and then have a bunch of fruit, then it takes a day to get back into it. Also, using Ketosis Strips tells me that I am generally only in the moderate range of 40-60 on the ketosis scale which is mostly impacted, I think, by fruit consumption.

2
744342f7ec832d8be55df79dbc067ebd

(76)

on January 13, 2012
at 01:22 AM

I am in my forth consecutive day of a 23 hour fast where Bikram is the last thing I do before I eat. I have been paleo for a few years now and fast regularly, I just decided this week to keep fasting each day after Monday's 23 hour fast. I always fell great when I fast and this week is even better. Oh, I am sticking to a Whole30 diet too, started on Jan 2nd. I also mix in the pushups, pull ups and other body weight exercise, everything together totally puts me in the zone. Now that I feel so well I am reluctant to stop the fasting but probably will when the weekend gets here. bikram seems best for me when in a fasted state. Go for it and see how you feel. KB

744342f7ec832d8be55df79dbc067ebd

(76)

on January 13, 2012
at 06:30 PM

Actually, Bikram always seems best for me when I have not eaten prior. So if I go in the morning without breakfast or otherwise fasted.

744342f7ec832d8be55df79dbc067ebd

(76)

on January 13, 2012
at 06:24 PM

So I meant each day I have been doing a 23 hour fast. On day 5 now. I usually do my Bikram at 4:30pm, today it will be noon. I have been eating "big Ass Salads" and burgers with homemade guac as well as some roasted butternut squash. I do drink some tea during the day when I am at the office. Ken

D826ee7c5f65d509348f7fe8aeeafdd4

(368)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:29 PM

What time of day do you do Bikram? And how big of a meal do you eat afterwards? I usually take a 6:30 am class, have a coconut water immediately afterwards and my appetite is suppressed for several hours afterwards... My bikram days now are essentially a short fast until I make dinner. I'm interested to see how I'll feel if I continue the fast. Thanks

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:22 PM

How do you fit 4 days into 23 hours?! Oh...

2
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on January 12, 2012
at 08:47 PM

Make sure you are supplementing with Magnesium (Citrate, Malate or Glycinate.) Most folk are deficient and you will really feel the effects of the deficiency when you fast or go vlc. You don't want any dizziness when doing Bikram yoga!

Also, if you are going vlc & fasting to get rid of your sugar cravings, make sure you are 100% Paleo first.

Gluten seems to trigger cravings in some people and if you are only "mostly" Paleo, this may be the problem, NOT the amount of carbs you are eating.

2
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 12, 2012
at 07:28 PM

It is the other way around; there is a benefit to ketogenic dieting before fasting. Either way you'll go ketogenic, but if are definitely ketogenic before you start fasting (and you've had a lot of fat + nutrition to hold you over during the fast), then the fast will not be too troublesome because there will be no blood sugar crash.

If you fast first you'll get the blood sugar crash during the fast and you may cave into the cravings.

Also, your training regimen means you do need more calories and probably some carbohydrates, especially after exercise, to replace glycogen stores.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 13, 2012
at 04:55 PM

Andrew is talking about ketogenic diets, exercise, cravings, and fasting. Probably too many things at one time. It can be done, but you have to balance. Maybe he can do it without carbs after exercise- but he ought to eat after exercise and have some carbs on hand in case. Otherwise he'll end up eating junk. My post was aimed at him having success, not in maintaining ketosis 24/7. He'd still be in ketosis most of the time if he only ate carbs after exercise.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 13, 2012
at 02:21 PM

Needing to eat carbs to replenish glycogen after a bit of yoga is ketogenic?

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 12, 2012
at 07:39 PM

That's kinda missing the point of a ketogenic diet.

Ed983a42344945b1ff70fd9597a23493

on January 13, 2012
at 01:18 AM

Not really, you can eat some starch and still be practicing a ketogenic diet.

2
Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on January 12, 2012
at 07:26 PM

I think the main benefit of starting with a fast will essentially be psychological. I would expect it would make it easier to break with previous habits and cravings, to focus on the true purpose of food. It also makes it a lot easier to cope whenever you have doubts with the new diet.

As to the exercise, I would say it depends on your current level of fitness. I keep doing yoga, bodyweight exercises as well as high intensity cardio, sprints, sports and heavier weights while fasting. My strength doesn't suffer, but depending how long you go you may find a shortness of breath in sprints particularly as essentially it becomes an aerobic exercise. You'll also want to take it steady when standing etc. particularly if in a hot room as your blood pressure will probably be affected. If you're dizzy all the time or struggling then you probably want to exercise less and sleep more, but if you're careful you can probably find that limit yourself. Of course, if by a 'short fast' you mean 16 hours then this is unlikely to be relevant.

0
61b801de5dc345b557cd4623d4a4f26b

(2682)

on January 13, 2012
at 03:23 PM

I did bikram yoga for the first time this past Monday...I was STARVING almost immediately after the class ended. 8)

My guess is, just like any other activity, once you get used to it a fast would not be a problem. Sounds like you have been doing bikram for a while, so I would assume you would be fine. Just go by how you feel.

-1
0bf4aaa16b8532ca8fb773d86900d153

on January 12, 2012
at 09:05 PM

I would rethink the practice of Bikram oga. After i watched a video from a biking athlete. Who told me that the air is only changed by the airconditioning i would not do bikram yoga. Imagine you breath this used air in and out. which is going thorugh the air conditioning.

Better to breath fresh air.

Fe87afa634afe26f4f6fd956abe0b46a

(565)

on January 13, 2012
at 01:40 AM

I don't know what kind of studio your friend went to, but I can tell you that this is absolutely not true as far as any Bikram studio I have ever seen. The best part of the class is when it's over and all the windows are opened and you feel the cool, outside air rush in! I can't imagine how nasty the air would be in a studio like your friend described.

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