2

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Ketosis - <20g vs. Leucine/Lysine?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 24, 2012 at 2:16 PM

Question (I'm really trying to wrap my head around the ketogenic diet) :

IS there a difference in which the body would function in a ketogenic state (including how it would use fat for fuel and how it would feel) if one were to:

a) Eating 80% fat...under 20g carbs of just a few greens..mod protein. say .75 per lb of lean body mass... and achieve ketosis..

VS.

b) Eating saying 50-60% fat...same protein, but eating around 40-50g carbs only from greens, but Supplementing with MCT, and Lysine/Leucine...

Any experience with both and how they differ?

I tried A) recently...but am finding B) might work better for me...but I'm not feeling the same effects..

Hope this makes sense! Thoughts...?

7e13e284a1bafd7b4de14a50ee96140c

(322)

on May 02, 2012
at 03:33 PM

Hey wondering if you can update. Btw it does take about 3-4 weeks to become really fat-adapted and experience that high energy. When you introduced some carbs + MCT did you feel any different mentally? more alert? less alert?

59ee717de524f921efb7f2984157339f

(871)

on February 24, 2012
at 03:47 PM

August, thank you. I didn't know that about the Leu/Lys I think i'll call that out, and focus on accessing my last lbs of body fat. Does MCT oil do the same? Also I read over at Hyperlipid that : "Coconut oil is interesting. It has a reputation for assisting weight loss, but if gavaged in to the stomach of a chow fed lab rat it will decrease blood glucose and increase blood insulin levels. You don't want to increase your insulin levels if you want to loose weight. There are other plus and minus sides to coconut oil, but I'd keep life simple and avoid it" What do you think about that?

59ee717de524f921efb7f2984157339f

(871)

on February 24, 2012
at 03:45 PM

Yes, Im trying to lose the last 10 lbs ...I was feeling extreme lethargy in Option A. very tired and low energy. I added a little more broccoli and Kale and felt better. But could it hinder my fat loss?

A4587cfef29863db612c43f89c202cc1

(2053)

on February 24, 2012
at 02:42 PM

Are you trying to lose weight? Why do you feel that option "b" works better for you, even without the same effects?

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2 Answers

2
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 24, 2012
at 03:20 PM

I've done something close to a) before. The big worry with b) is what the leucine is doing to you. Insulin will increase in response to it, as you likely know because bodybuilders appear to be supplementing about 20g of it in order to saturate a pro-growth pathway. So, this in turn makes it a bit hard for you to access fat stores, at least until the insulin level subside, which is why you aren't feeling the same effects. This comes down to what your goals are. It is usually best to lose weight, then try to gain muscle- and if you decide to use pro-growth agents, use them for a short amount of time. The season in which we would have likely received the most incentive to grow would likely have been in summer.

59ee717de524f921efb7f2984157339f

(871)

on February 24, 2012
at 03:47 PM

August, thank you. I didn't know that about the Leu/Lys I think i'll call that out, and focus on accessing my last lbs of body fat. Does MCT oil do the same? Also I read over at Hyperlipid that : "Coconut oil is interesting. It has a reputation for assisting weight loss, but if gavaged in to the stomach of a chow fed lab rat it will decrease blood glucose and increase blood insulin levels. You don't want to increase your insulin levels if you want to loose weight. There are other plus and minus sides to coconut oil, but I'd keep life simple and avoid it" What do you think about that?

0
D6304567ada7ac5e8c6f4e5902270831

on February 24, 2012
at 04:11 PM

This is off the cuff, but I don't believe there is a one-size-fits-all number for fat:protein:carbohydrate ratios or specific quantities of which fatty acids ... even based on body mass index etc. I think you just have to discover this through your own (careful) experimentation *. Based on your genes you may be prone to cellular insulin resistance and/or inefficient at storing glycogen etc., so your requirements for nutritional ketosis might be higher than others'. Your metabolism of certain FAs may also be impaired, etc.

(*) I say careful because radical dietary changes can sometimes be dangerous (even if the end result is not). Really do find a professional doctor or nutritionist whose theories you can trust. They should be able to help you achieve nutritional ketosis without any bad things happening [1]. While usually sudden ketosis can be safe (I believe) it does perhaps have a drug-like effect [2] and this can be unexpectedly intense (there are some anecdotes of the onset of ketosis triggering pretty intense manic episodes in bipolar individuals, for example) and or really, really dangerous given actual drug interactions (at least with valproic acid) in certain individuals [3]. To me, this is not so much a specious warning, but one anyone should consider; bipolar could be very common and I venture to guess many people just have never been diagnosed!

[Note: I don't mean to fear-monger at all; I'm personally a fan of a nutritional ketosis. But really do your homework and get professional advice if you want to radically alter your diet in short time.]

[1] http://www.pedneur.com/article/S0887-8994(08)00399-8/abstract

[2] http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(06)00577-9/abstract

[3] http://fdlpsychiatry.com/media/mania.pdf

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