2

votes

Ketogenic Cocktail of Leucine, Lysine, Cream, and Coconut Oil?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 30, 2012 at 3:31 PM

I generally subscribe to the Kurt Harris doctrine that supplements are a poor substitute for simply eating natural foods in accordance with paleolithic principles.

However, I recently bought some L-lysine and leucine powders and am experimenting with them.

As many of you know, our bodies can break down most proteins into glucose, so a high protein diet (as opposed to a high fat, low carb diet) will tend to have only muted ketogenic effects. L-lysine and leucine are the exceptions; they are the only exclusively ketogenic amino acids.

And of course coconut oil and heavy cream, especially in the absence of carbs, induce ketosis.

So I occasionally make myself a "ketogenic cocktail" with all four of the ingredients: L-lysine, leucine, heavy cream, and coconut oil. I typically mix a few drops of vanilla extract and sometimes some unsweetened cocoa powder. Since I rarely eat anything sweet, this mixture actually tastes like dessert to me.

I was wondering if anyone else has experimented with mixing these ingredients before. Have you noticed any significant differences in how you feel or look? Have you measured your level of ketosis to see whether consuming the "ketogenic cocktail" has any significant impact?

420ab6c646066ba241f3cbed97fdaa73

on July 10, 2012
at 03:18 AM

Haha. That would be funny having a conversation with myself. Though Kamal and I do seem to have similar complexions, I assure you we aren't the same people.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on July 04, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Looking quickly at the thumbnail pics, Kamal and Roger appear to be the same person! Anyone else notice that?

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on July 04, 2012
at 02:03 AM

I have never tried it, but I find your reasoning and the question mighty interesting.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 30, 2012
at 08:01 PM

Oh shit, gelatin isn't LYCINE rich, it's GLYCINE rich. Duh! Well, there goes my plan.

420ab6c646066ba241f3cbed97fdaa73

on June 30, 2012
at 06:08 PM

Interesting about the gelatin. Wikipedia's entry on gelatin states: "The approximate amino acid composition of gelatin is: glycine 21%, proline 12%, hydroxyproline 12%, glutamic acid 10%, alanine 9%, arginine 8%, aspartic acid 6%, lysine 4%, serine 4%, leucine 3%, valine 2%, phenylalanine 2%, threonine 2%, isoleucine 1%, hydroxylysine 1%, methionine and histidine <1% and tyrosine <0.5%." I suppose the source of the gelatin matters, but this distribution of aminos looks more glucogenic than ketogenic.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 30, 2012
at 04:31 PM

Great question!

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2 Answers

3
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 30, 2012
at 04:37 PM

I've been tempted to try a similar thing before, but have not.

Because leucine may be able to stimulate protein synthesis a bit in the absence of some other amino acids, theoretically it could lower overall protein requirements for a low-cal diet (I stole this from Paul Jaminet).

Like you said, leucine and lysine are ketogenic. And gelatin has the latter in spades, so I figured eating more gelatin and supplementing with leucine around workouts during a low-cal keto diet may be something to try.

But...no. I wussed out. Why? I couldn't get the math right. If you need X grams of essential amino acids, and Y grams of glucose for your nervous system, at least until ketosis kicks in, I couldn't figure out if the benefits of burning an extra amount of calories from deep ketosis before a weekly (carb up / mini potential leptin resset) would be worth it and not jeapordize muscle retention. Does that make sense or am I just tired and writing poorly?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on June 30, 2012
at 08:01 PM

Oh shit, gelatin isn't LYCINE rich, it's GLYCINE rich. Duh! Well, there goes my plan.

420ab6c646066ba241f3cbed97fdaa73

on June 30, 2012
at 06:08 PM

Interesting about the gelatin. Wikipedia's entry on gelatin states: "The approximate amino acid composition of gelatin is: glycine 21%, proline 12%, hydroxyproline 12%, glutamic acid 10%, alanine 9%, arginine 8%, aspartic acid 6%, lysine 4%, serine 4%, leucine 3%, valine 2%, phenylalanine 2%, threonine 2%, isoleucine 1%, hydroxylysine 1%, methionine and histidine <1% and tyrosine <0.5%." I suppose the source of the gelatin matters, but this distribution of aminos looks more glucogenic than ketogenic.

03a4ec34751186201a56da298ac843ce

(4100)

on July 04, 2012
at 02:07 AM

Looking quickly at the thumbnail pics, Kamal and Roger appear to be the same person! Anyone else notice that?

420ab6c646066ba241f3cbed97fdaa73

on July 10, 2012
at 03:18 AM

Haha. That would be funny having a conversation with myself. Though Kamal and I do seem to have similar complexions, I assure you we aren't the same people.

0
8f44b99bb2cfb223247ef165ba467f01

on January 24, 2014
at 11:00 PM

@Kamal

I'm not working on enough cylinders do do the math either, but adding the other two branch chain amino acids to the mix (isoleucine and valine) might prevent the muscle catabolism you're concerned about. Also, word on the street is that the CNS might preferentially burn ketones like betahydroxybutyric acid, so you can might not need daily glucose. Sorry I have no references to share. This word came from the literal street.

Anyway - if you do try let me know how it goes.

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