I've had some intense carb/sugar cravings late night. I usually have a late breakfast. I don't get hungry until about 1045.
I workout 6 to 7 times a week with cross-training, weight-training and cardio/ fasted cardio (3 times a week).
I'm Intermittent Fasting (12 to 24 hours) twice every 6-8 days or so.
My calorie restricting regimen : 1700 - 1990 cals ( 25 % Fat 45% Protein and 30% Carb)
Typical Day : 1045-Breakfast: Nut Butter, Fruit, Eggs 230-Lunch: Salad and Turkey 430-Snack: Chicken Livers and Saut??ed Veggie 830-(Post Workout) Dinner: Flank Steak, Egg Whites and Sweet Potato with Coconut and Cinnamon
asked byPaleoPrince (35)
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on November 03, 2013
at 03:56 PM
@LAFruitGoblin in response to http://paleohacks.com/answers/500853/view.html
My dear troll, apologies for the very late reply, but unlike you, I do not have three health related businesses to run from my mother's basement, and have a real life, with a real job and a very real family with its own very real obligations, so I can't jump on every comment and reply immediately, unlike you, who despite your two or was it three businesses, seem to have an unlimited amount of time to waste on the internets proving that "someone is wrong on the internet" http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png, and do so on a forum that is the opposite of the lifestyle you're following.
Oh, right, I don't down 4Kg of sugar, so I don't have the energy you have to sit in your mama's basement answering the internets every 3 seconds, I'll stick to my coffee, and remain bulletproof, thank you.
Indeed, I accuse you of trolling, and your own admission to the same proves it so:
"Not sure who Bill Bailey is, just an activist here aspiring to shatter the paleo illusions that have turned into a religion for so many lost, suffering people. " (emphasis mine) from: http://paleohacks.com/comments/500406/view.html
"A single burger’s worth of beef, or three slices of cheddar, boosts insulin levels more than almost 2 cups of cooked pasta"
A quick google of that line seems to point that you pulled this quote from:
http://www.hippocratesinst.org/wp-content/pdf/28-4_screen.pdf a pro-vegan, newagey agenda rag, or perhaps the book ‘Carbophobia’ by Dr Michael Gregar, yet another such source. or this other anti-atkins attack site: http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/13/Phony_Baloney.htm
Seems you vegan/fruitarian lots are lazy and like to copy and paste answers word for word. Speaking of dogma, that's what you're reciting, my good troll - in this case, anti-Atkins dogma. Well, what do you expect if you copy and paste and don't think for yourself?
This is standard vegan (or is it now fruitarian) dogma meant to attack Atkins, you're using it out of context to attack paleo. In case you didn't notice, paleos don't generally eat cheese, those that do, have a slightly different diet, called primal, which includes dairy.
As I pointed out before, the problem isn't the insulin, it's the glucose. Yes, indeed, protein does trigger insulin, though to a far lesser degree than carbs, and as usual, you ignore the function of glucagon which mediates insulin. In case you weren't aware, whey is highly insulogenic, and there's a good reason behind this: it's to grow a baby mammal from its mother's milk. This is why whey is an effective ergogenic used by bodybuilders to get big. In fact, if you want to get "70s Big", you'd do a GOMAD diet, aka "Gallon of Milk a Day" - there are plenty of things wrong with that diet, especially since cow's milk is designed to do one thing and one thing only: turn a very small dumb mammal into a very large dumb mammal, and its milk is species incorrect to humans. I can't argue with the results. If you want to get 70s big, that's the way to go.
That study you quote is from 1988 and is quite old, and misleading.
From http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/10526/2 we see that 1oz of raw beef (since burgers are weighed as quarter-pounder with an asterisk after them noting pre-cooking weight) contains 5g of protein, and has a glycemic load of 0. Once ounce of cheddar contains 2g of carbs, and has a glycemic load of 1: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/8/2
Versus 1oz of pasta, which has a glycemic load of 4: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5757/2
"...and whole fruits, have almost no effect on raising BG. " - that's a lie.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin_index shows that bananas raise both insulin and blood sugar.
See where it says beef? Raises insulin by 51, see where it says banana, raises insulin by 81! "almost no effect" my ass!
Eating protein and fat does not endanger nerve cells, or eyes when blood levels of these get too high, but when blood sugar does get too high it does. So the point isn't that insulin is raised, the point is that when blood sugar is raised beyond a certain threshhold, insulin is triggered in order to safely lower it to non-toxic levels. This is why type 2 diabetics carry glucometers, not insulin meters - it's not the insulin response that's a problem for them, it's the toxic effect of too much glucose on nerve tissue that leads to diabetes complicated blindness and amputations!
Infact, high blood sugar is now also known to cause brain damage, which after a lifetime of ingesting tons of fruit, you're likely to suffer from: http://www.neurology.org/content/early/2013/10/23/01.wnl.0000435561.00234.ee.short
This flows well with the observations that vegans tend to be brain damaged, but from another angle than the B12 you and I previously discussed, because most non-meat protein sources tend to be also high in carbs. You could, of course, extract and isolate the protein from things like soy, rice, and peas and provide vegan sources, but you won't be able to do so in a primitive environment. This is why you'll never be able to find a totally vegan culture in history - it was simply not possible until the modern era - they'd die off of B12 deficiencies since your beloved pichuberries don't exist in most of the world.
The core of "paleo dogma" which you keep repeating is simply this: we remove those food items which are toxic. Animals can defend themselves by running, or by fighting with claws, teeth, and in rare cases venom. As a species, few of us eat venomous creatures, and the cultures that do know how to avoid it. We've even found that parts of mammal brains are hardwired to recognize and fear
Plants cannot run away, they can develop defenses however to prevent being eaten. We paleos simply avoid most of the plants that are harmful to us, as well as modern sources of toxins from manufactured items and CAFO meats. There is one backdoor arguement that supports eating of fruit: fruit are meant to be eaten, their plants want us to eat them so we spread their seeds. Very true.
In general, fruits are not available in the wild all year round, but rather are available at the end of summer and are pretty much the majority source of fructose. Fructose is used as a signal that winter is coming, and that we should pack on some fat in preparation of this, so having access to fruit year round is a bad idea when we didn't evolve so.
As you well know, we handle fructose differently than glucose, and you might or might not know that we have a lovely enzyme in our saliva called sucrase that cleaves sucrose into fructose and glucose when it hits an acidic environment (the stomach). In http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/70/2/269.full, they use fructose to harm liver cells so as to test the protective effect of glutathione, so yes, science knows for a fact that fructose is toxic to the liver, and that the liver is the only organ that can process it.
Science also knows that fructose is involved in insulin resistance: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/76/5/911.short and yet, as we all know, fructose has zero effect on insulin. So how does it cause diabetes? By damaging the liver. The liver can turn fructose into glycogen when its stores are empty, or fatty acids when it is full. If too much fructose comes in too quickly, it creates so many free fatty acids that we see a disease called Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver disease, that is so much fat is created so quickly that it cannot be removed quickly enough and it builds up and damages the liver: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=fructose+nafld
Looking at a single medium banana: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1846/2 it contains ~6g of free fructose, and ~3g of sucrose; since sucrose is a fructose molecule bonded to a glucose molecule, that raises it to about 7g of fructose after the action of sucrase per banana. Multiplied by 15, you're getting 105g of fructose each time you have one of your 15 banana shakes (and I'm not even counting the sugar you're adding!). As you may know, bananas are a modern invented fruit. The original was simply a seed pod, where as the modern has to be cloned as it has no viable seeds. It's not an ancestral fruit, nor anything we've evolved with.
Perhaps as a fruitarian, you might also wish to consider the evil dark side of this fruit: http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=12442 but, never mind that, we'll ignore all the blood spilled so you can blend 15 of these frankenfruits into a smoothie each day and give yourself diabetes or Alzheimer's later on in life.
I'm not going to waste my time delving deeply into your links to http://paleovegan.blogspot.com/ and other propaganda websites like it.
Although I'll bother with this one http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v480/n7375/full/nature10629.html. I'm not going to pay the $30 to read an article just to refute it when I can simply point to this
"A widely held explanation is the expensive-tissue hypothesis, which proposes a trade-off between brain size and the mass of other energetically expensive organs, especially the digestive tract. Now a survey of 100 mammal species reveals no such trade-off, refuting the idea that expensive tissues compete for energy. There is a negative correlation between the size of brains and the amount of stored energy in the form of adipose tissue, however. The authors propose that the increase in human brain size was facilitated by a combination of stabilization of energy inputs and a redirection of energy from locomotion, growth and reproduction."
The flaw is clear. They looked for storage of fat. Wild humans are lean humans. Obese humans in the wild are sabretooth tiger food.
Studying 100 mammal species is not studying humans since those species did not develop fire and didn't cook their food. The paper is titled "Energetics and the evolution of human brain size" not "It's Curtains For The Expensive Tissue Hypothesis" - that's just sensationalism by a pro-vegan agenda attack site which you can see attacking quotes from Mark Sisson. Even so, that very same pro-vegan site states "It is not evidence that pre-humans were strict vegans. It is not evidence that Homo sapiens are natural herbivores. Prehistoric humans and their ancestors ate meat, and sometimes a heck of a lot of it. You'll just have to deal with that." So your pointing here is useless and does not help your standing in any way shape or form.
In terms of your pathetic calcium/alkaline osteoporosis links, the issue is vitamin K. Without it, taking calcium supplements is detrimental. Have fun educating yourself: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=vitamin+k+and+osteoporosis
"400g of carb calories were burned daily without any exercise"
Yeah, no kidding, ever heard of basal metabolic rate? works the same without carbs. 400g X 4 = 1200, that's barely enough to lie in bed sleeping and keep alive. Big whoop.
Even the mainstream media knows this factoid: http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/fruit-cause-insulin-up-1905.html
"Avoid bananas, with 27.6 grams of net carb or 7 teaspoons of sugar per large fruit"
" observational studies that showed that increased fruit consumption is tied to lower body weight and a lower risk of obesity-associated diseases. "
Funnily enough the first page of that http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1693739
"fructose rapidly undergoes glycolisys, fueling the de novo lipogenesis under some conditions. This newly synthesized lipid may accumulate locally causing fatty liver and insulin resistance..." There you go, debunked by your own reference. Ha Ha!
"Fructose metabolism may up-regulate hepatic signal transduction involved in inflammation and drive uric acid production possibly contributing to hypertension and endothelial dysfunction... marked metabolic aberations including insulin resistance, dyslipedimia, higher blood pressure, and increased visceral adiposity.."
"Beals, et al., (1984) examining the fossil evidence from a thermoregulatory perspective, concluded thatHomo have been de-encephalizing and getting shorter for about 100,000 years, which puts the start of the decline well into the Middle Paleolithic..." Yes, that's from 1984. This is from 2003: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17003019 you have your chronological order confused buddy.
Now, in terms of your intentions, you're clearly trolling and attacking people, not just their ideas. Some choice ad homeniems from your past few days at paleohacks:
- Your a joke of a person
- You have no critical thinking abilities.
- you are just extremely socially conditioned
- Its incredible how butt hurt you appear,
- common paleo religious devotee mistake.
- Had tou had any ahred of a brain cell left,
- you two mongrels.
- illiterate bad breath zombies
- You really are a dumbass who doesn't understand the implications of factory farming animals , or what goes into feeding those animals, no sense in arguing with a dumbass who has it figured out :)
- your ridiculously pathetic response only validates my scientific stance that much more.
- Are you absolutely sure you didn't initiate this all, with the crackpipe, mom's basement accusations? Your an undercarbbed dipshit unable to refute anything using scientific studies, just a parrot at best.
- your out of your mind, your running purely on conjecture its fucking hilarious; my information is scientific, yours is paleo parroting;
- your ridiculously pathetic response only validates my scientific stance that much more
- Wow ketosis has ruined your brain....
- I didn't realize I was arguing with an illiterate zombie, sorry your so screwed up in the head that you would actually believe the nonsense you've typed
You sir, are a troll, you should be banned from paleohacks.
on October 31, 2013
at 04:15 AM
I do feel bad for the paleo's who mix high carb with high fat, like Matt 11. It makes me feel sad that they took nutrition into their own hands, regardless of the mountains of clinical and peer reviewed information that exists regarding high fat and high carb diabetes research. I hope you, @Matt 11, will at least get a glucose meter. @DiceDawg I am just giving him a taste of his own medicine, Im friendly to those who don't attack me... Even to my aggressors I will always offer a lending hand in the form of nutrition advice, its my pleasure.
on October 30, 2013
at 05:26 PM
@cl101 Its not an amino acid free, nor fat free diet. Your claim is not well founded, "I used to eat a very high fruit diet", oh really? How much fruit exactly were you eating, if you were eating oats and dairy, doesn't sound like any sort of fruit diet I have ever researched. Its easy to under eat and not have energy, its even easier to log your caloric nutrient ratios on something like cronometer.com and see the actual nutrition you got for a given day. Im sorry you underrate and then blamed fruit for not having energy, but even sorrier your on paleo and likely reliant on caffeine for energy.
Just as meat eater is a broad term, vegan is very broad, vegetarian is very broad. Im afraid you cannot blame sugar for your energy woes when all competitive athletes who use energy, rely on sugar for their fuel. You just don't see athletes in ketosis accomplishing much at all, besides perhaps heavy weights, but you won't see and sort of endurance in that athlete, nor a long timeframe of being able to compete. Starve yourself of the glycogen you need and you won't perform for ****.
on October 30, 2013
at 03:27 AM
I'm trying to experiment with reducing my sugar cravings at night as well. Here are some things that have been working for me...mind you, I still have some tough days, but it's been getting significantly better over the last week or two
1) don't start the day off sweet. I used to have fruit every morning at breakfast. Now, if I want a starch with breakfast, I'll have (sweet) potatoes instead of a banana. So breakfast is savory, with eggs and bacon (sometimes some mushrooms and/or spinach as well)
2) allow yourself something small and sweet after dinner. I just started allowing myself a piece of dark chocolate or a small serving of fruit (like 1/4 cup grapes or 5-6 strawberries) after dinner. Immediately after, I have a cup of tea and brush my teeth. I satisfy the craving with something small and then "clean my mouth" to give myself the feeling that I'm "done" for the evening
3) just don't keep really tempting sweet stuff around in large quantities. I buy small individually packaged dark chocolate squares...I hope to one day have the willpower to just break off a piece of a larger bar to save on packaging and buy in bulk, but that's just not in the cards right now. And I no longer keep tons of options around...I have one kind of chocolate and one or two kinds of fruit in the fridge. I used to keep a few cartons of "treat" ice cream (grass-fed from a local dairy) in the freezer, along with nut butters (including flavored) and even a box of gluten free waffles. Not anymore. It's just too tempting. If it's there and I've had a rough day, I'll eat it. I'm an emotional eater and turn to food if it's available to me, but I'm much less likely to overeat if I know I don't have a seemingly unending supply. Even tonight, I went back to get another square of dark chocolate when I should have been making my tea, but stopped when I saw I only had about 5-6 left
on October 29, 2013
at 08:02 PM
Your craving sugar because your cells are starving. I typically start my day with a 15 banana smoothie, followed for lunch by 20 large medjool dates blended with water, a couple nice pink lady apples after that, a large salad (3-4 bell peppers for vitamin c), then typically 5-10 cups cooked rice or 1-2k cal of pasta... I rotate different fruits all the time but always hit 4k minimum calories. I losing weight, and healing health issues from paleo. I have no cravings throughout the day for any fatty foods, am putting on lean muscle mass, but still occasionally have nuts and seeds. I came from a paleo lifestyle where I was reliant on caffeine, feeling emotionally unstable, and constantly craving large amounts of sugar.
on October 27, 2013
at 03:13 PM
5-6 days of cross-fit may consitute over training, you definitely need to make sure you are hitting optimal deep sleep cycles if you are exercising that much, you probably need to eat a lot more, I don't see enough fat in your diet, amp up the grass-fed butter and coconut oil a little? It would be helpful to see your age/height/gender, if you are a 6' man at 200 pounds with all that exercise, you should be eating twice the amount of calories a day than you currently are eating, and probably more safe starches, you're probably exhausting your muscle glycogen and not giving your body the ability to recharge. If you are trying to gain strength, size, or lose weight vis-a exercise, I would suggest working out 1 to 2 a week instead of 5-6 and eating more carbs on the days that you do exercise and limiting them/restricting them on your repair days. Remember that our bodies don't get the benefits of exercise while we are exercising but during the time in which we allow ourselves to repair, it's all about the hormones.
Less than 2k calories with out enough fat, and that much exercise, along with not giving yourself significant carbohydrate to restore muscle glycogen sounds to me like a sure-fire stress hormone cocktail. If you are losing fat rapidly, aren't inflammed, and are builiding muscle, despite the fallacies that I have gleaned from your current approach, then disregard my assessment and keep on keepin'-on, but I have a feeling that if you worked out less and added even just 600 more calories (I eat 2500 a day and wish I could afford to double that number, and I only exercise once a week) from oils (eat them yolks son/lady) and got rid of the white meat (antibiotic riddled, bad-fat city), you'd lose your sugar cravings and make much more progress in your efforts of realizing your body compisition goals.
on October 27, 2013
at 02:57 PM
Start supplementing with Alpha Lipoic Acid (ALA or RLA). ALA will lower cravings.
Whenever you get cravings, take a scoop of L-Glutamine (you could get pills, but it's best as a powder.) Glutamine tastes sweet and can be used by our brain cells as a source of ATP, so it can quiet those cravings.
Additionally, glutamine has the added benefit of healing the gut lining (which if you need, along with bone broth can be a very useful supplement.) It can also be used to reduce DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soarness) or post-workout energy dips.
on October 27, 2013
at 02:33 PM
You're simply under-eating (not necessarily carbohydrate either). You're already eating well-below BMR and if you're as active as you say you are, you're significantly under-eating and going to fail sooner or later. Add 500-1000 calories in, titrating until you hit maintainance.
on October 27, 2013
at 02:28 PM
Magnesium can really help with those cravings, it's not immediate, but it helps to take the edge off.
on October 26, 2013
at 03:27 PM
I find I crave in the evenings if I don't have enough fat at dinner. I make homemade mayo regularly, and mix it with other flavors to make a sauce (mayo+sriracha is heavenly), or else I include avocado with my meal. I use good butter on my veggies, or olive oil if I'm roasting them.
I also found that taking amino acids, per Julia Ross' book The Diet Cure, helped.
on October 25, 2013
at 10:52 PM
Eliminate the fruit except for something tart like granny smith apples or tart grapefruits, not the oversized sweet modified ones but the little organic kind, cut sweet potato. Cut everything sweet from your diet and tough it out for a few months. At some point you will get over it, and if you don't then you will be fighting that demon forever. I'm at the point where anything sweeter than 80% dark chocolate sends a shiver down my spine as too sweet.
on October 25, 2013
at 10:28 PM
Eat some sugar in the evening.
on October 25, 2013
at 09:25 PM
What's your height, wt., BF% and wt. loss goals? I'm looking at your total calories and wondering if that's enough for you, given your exercise regimen.
Also, given your exercise regimen, it might be helpful to back-load some good carbs after the workout to replenish muscle glycogen and do a cycling ketogenic diet (one day/wk of 300–400g of good carbs and taper down in qty. through the week). Also, I've heard that supplementing with L-glutamine and chromium piccolonate helps curb carb cravings.
on October 25, 2013
at 09:24 PM
Make sure you eat plenty of protein and fat at dinner and drink lots of water. Sugar cravings could be oyur body's way of telling you you need more protein. It could also mean that you need more fuel with your workout schedule, so possibly consider adding more safe starches. Also, I notice you eat egg whites, and though egg whites are a high quality protein, most of the nutritents (such as the much sought-after vitamin D) are in the yolk, so try whole eggs instead; it's also possible the sugar cravings are your body telling you you need more nutrients. Don't forget to get enough sleep, sleep is vital to balancing your hunger hormones and when you get enough sleep, cravings tend to decrease.