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How to Stay out of Ketosis?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created December 20, 2011 at 3:17 AM

On my 2 lifting days I think tubers are great, but on off/light activity days I'm interested in staying out of Ketosis without them. Given that, I'm aiming for 50 % Carbs from Veg (Carrots,onion..) and 50 % Carbs from fruit. Do you guys think for ex. a large orange with Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner is too much fruit? Is this plus some veg enough to stay out of ketosis? (not that theres anything wrong with Ketosis) - I'm 23 yr old male, with 10 % BF (I apologize if someone has asked/answered this already)

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Probably 150-220g PWO twice a week. Possibly a fast metabolism has me feeling pretty low carb fluish on off days?

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 09:55 PM

Thanks so much conciliator

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 20, 2011
at 07:05 PM

As far as total carbs for moderation: Something around 20-50% of your daily calories is probably ideal. Very active can go up to 70%, very sedentary down.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 20, 2011
at 07:04 PM

That's fine. Something like <50g fructose total in a day, or <100g if you're active will have zero problems and likely benefits. In general, it's pretty hard to do anything crazy with fruit. The problems come when people drink soda. As far as teeth go, I'd try to eat foods at meals (no nibbling), chew gum after anything acidic. Stay away from dried fruit as they are bad for your teeth. Obviously an acidic carb source (pineapple) is not ideal for your teeth, but it has other benefits, life is full of compromises.

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 06:41 PM

"run" meaning diet, not cardio

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 06:40 PM

Activity on non-lifting days: Chores, Deskwork, hiking, music=not too muscle glycogen depleting. I want to run on very little starch on my off days, but avoid ketosis by a decent amount. I'm interested in a DeVany/Cordain starchless approach (Root veg + Sat. Fat are IMO good though). Do their recommendations not apply to natural lean people?

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 06:31 PM

Hi Conciliator, how much do you think is beyond moderation? I was contemplating trying 1 whole pineapple spread across my 3 meals (meat+veg,etc.). Possible Fructose overload or Tooth rot?

B3e7d1ab5aeb329fe24cca1de1a0b09c

(5242)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:09 PM

True Dave S, but I find I have to be in 'constant' ketosis for several weeks for this to occur.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on December 20, 2011
at 11:31 AM

Ketonuria (ketones in the urine) is what a ketostick measures, It does not measure ketosis. You can have plenty of ketosis going on with no signs of ketonuria. Typically, as you adapt to ketosis, less and less ketones will spill into your urine.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on December 20, 2011
at 11:27 AM

50 grams CHO per day seems to be the dividing line for most people. This separates nearly continuous ketosis from the occaisional dip into ketosis between meals or overnight. Some people need to go quite a bit lower to sustain ketosis, as we are all unique snowflakes (just like everybody else). You would have to be one heck of an outlier to sustain ketosis at 100 grams of CHO per day, so conciliator is correct. You would probably dip into it overnight, however - or going a long time between meals. That's normal and expected.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 20, 2011
at 11:19 AM

What is your actual goal? Unless it truly is simply to somehow 'stay out of' ketosis, which seems rather esoteric.

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 20, 2011
at 11:18 AM

True, he'll be in ketosis to some extent constantly

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 20, 2011
at 08:21 AM

As you are lean, you will have relatively good insulin sensitivity. Carbs tend to be good for sports performance/maintaining muscle mass. Having liver glycogen also sets an anabolic 'tone' through the body, being in ketosis sets a catabolic tone via the liver. If you feel less sluggish without tubers, then by all means skip them. Fruit will do the trick. I just think if you don't actively dislike fruit/carbs, it is to your benefit to eat them (in moderation).

286a4ff7c362241c5c4b020df4972212

(1288)

on December 20, 2011
at 05:42 AM

Remember lifting weights will release ketones - you really need to test first up in the morning. As its takes a few days to swap over I very much doubt that you are going in and out of ketosis day by day

B3e7d1ab5aeb329fe24cca1de1a0b09c

(5242)

on December 20, 2011
at 05:15 AM

I think if you had another carb re-feed of that quantity during the week you'd probably struggle to get into ketosis anyway, just depending on how active you are on non lifting days. You could always get some ketostix and experiment with what works to keep you out/in.

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 04:47 AM

Long Term Goals are to lean out maybe another % or two. But more importantly I feel quicker and less sluggish without the tubers and my teeth and skin are cleaner. Is there a down side to being on the brink of ketosis?

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 20, 2011
at 03:38 AM

If you're 10% bodyfat I wouldn't recommend staying on the brink of ketosis, but like always it depends on goals.

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2 Answers

1
Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

on December 20, 2011
at 03:35 AM

100g of carbs will keep you out of ketosis for the most part. Fruit would be slightly more helpful in this regard, but I don't think you should worry about the differences as they are miniscule.

And no, that's not too much fruit.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 20, 2011
at 03:38 AM

If you're 10% bodyfat I wouldn't recommend staying on the brink of ketosis, but like always it depends on goals.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on December 20, 2011
at 11:27 AM

50 grams CHO per day seems to be the dividing line for most people. This separates nearly continuous ketosis from the occaisional dip into ketosis between meals or overnight. Some people need to go quite a bit lower to sustain ketosis, as we are all unique snowflakes (just like everybody else). You would have to be one heck of an outlier to sustain ketosis at 100 grams of CHO per day, so conciliator is correct. You would probably dip into it overnight, however - or going a long time between meals. That's normal and expected.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 20, 2011
at 07:05 PM

As far as total carbs for moderation: Something around 20-50% of your daily calories is probably ideal. Very active can go up to 70%, very sedentary down.

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 20, 2011
at 08:21 AM

As you are lean, you will have relatively good insulin sensitivity. Carbs tend to be good for sports performance/maintaining muscle mass. Having liver glycogen also sets an anabolic 'tone' through the body, being in ketosis sets a catabolic tone via the liver. If you feel less sluggish without tubers, then by all means skip them. Fruit will do the trick. I just think if you don't actively dislike fruit/carbs, it is to your benefit to eat them (in moderation).

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 04:47 AM

Long Term Goals are to lean out maybe another % or two. But more importantly I feel quicker and less sluggish without the tubers and my teeth and skin are cleaner. Is there a down side to being on the brink of ketosis?

Cf32992bfa1907147c7cdc451bba9c63

(2890)

on December 20, 2011
at 07:04 PM

That's fine. Something like <50g fructose total in a day, or <100g if you're active will have zero problems and likely benefits. In general, it's pretty hard to do anything crazy with fruit. The problems come when people drink soda. As far as teeth go, I'd try to eat foods at meals (no nibbling), chew gum after anything acidic. Stay away from dried fruit as they are bad for your teeth. Obviously an acidic carb source (pineapple) is not ideal for your teeth, but it has other benefits, life is full of compromises.

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 06:31 PM

Hi Conciliator, how much do you think is beyond moderation? I was contemplating trying 1 whole pineapple spread across my 3 meals (meat+veg,etc.). Possible Fructose overload or Tooth rot?

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 09:55 PM

Thanks so much conciliator

0
B3e7d1ab5aeb329fe24cca1de1a0b09c

(5242)

on December 20, 2011
at 04:31 AM

How many tubers (carbs by gram) do you have on your lifting days?

I currently lift 3x a week and eat about 150g of carbs, mostly from tubers on those days, and about 30 - 50g on non lifting days, and I don't enter ketosis, at least not in any manner to show up on a ketostix.

And no, I don't think that's too much fruit.

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Probably 150-220g PWO twice a week. Possibly a fast metabolism has me feeling pretty low carb fluish on off days?

Dfada6fe4982ab3b7557172f20632da8

(5332)

on December 20, 2011
at 11:18 AM

True, he'll be in ketosis to some extent constantly

286a4ff7c362241c5c4b020df4972212

(1288)

on December 20, 2011
at 05:42 AM

Remember lifting weights will release ketones - you really need to test first up in the morning. As its takes a few days to swap over I very much doubt that you are going in and out of ketosis day by day

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on December 20, 2011
at 11:31 AM

Ketonuria (ketones in the urine) is what a ketostick measures, It does not measure ketosis. You can have plenty of ketosis going on with no signs of ketonuria. Typically, as you adapt to ketosis, less and less ketones will spill into your urine.

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 06:40 PM

Activity on non-lifting days: Chores, Deskwork, hiking, music=not too muscle glycogen depleting. I want to run on very little starch on my off days, but avoid ketosis by a decent amount. I'm interested in a DeVany/Cordain starchless approach (Root veg + Sat. Fat are IMO good though). Do their recommendations not apply to natural lean people?

B3e7d1ab5aeb329fe24cca1de1a0b09c

(5242)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:09 PM

True Dave S, but I find I have to be in 'constant' ketosis for several weeks for this to occur.

B3e7d1ab5aeb329fe24cca1de1a0b09c

(5242)

on December 20, 2011
at 05:15 AM

I think if you had another carb re-feed of that quantity during the week you'd probably struggle to get into ketosis anyway, just depending on how active you are on non lifting days. You could always get some ketostix and experiment with what works to keep you out/in.

C8a5c6d2804326646bb274e491f7f21b

(534)

on December 20, 2011
at 06:41 PM

"run" meaning diet, not cardio

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