1

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Entering Ketosis?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created June 05, 2012 at 6:14 PM

I have been doing a ton of reading and just never posted anything before so just bare with me here. I appreciate any and all help.

I am 6'7" and 300lbs. Have been following a Paleo Diet for a few weeks now, but always have bad weekends (beer) and lose all progress. I am trying to get into ketosis but am only getting a trace of ketones in my urine based on the ketostix. How many ketones do I need to see on the stick to know that I am burning fat?

Also, I've read a lot about eating 1 gram of protein/1lb on body weight... There is no way I can eat 300 grams of protein/day. Is there a safe protein amount I should and could realistically get to? Also, any advice on my calorie intake? I've been eating nothing but lean meats and fats for a few days now.

Again, any and all advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on November 13, 2012
at 01:16 PM

The 0.6 to 1g of protein per lb lean body mass is the amount that you need to maintain your muscle mass. The excess is turned into glucose, so you want to avoid it wherever possible.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on November 13, 2012
at 11:16 AM

How does reducing the protein affect muscle mass? Will it not decrease?

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 07, 2012
at 03:12 PM

He's baaaaaacckkkkk! With even more spam. Mujahid, spam isn't paleo. Not even when you attach it to pseudo content.

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 05, 2012
at 10:58 PM

You are very likely consuming 10-15 times your weekly carb consumption over just a period of 24-36 hours... This kills your insulin sensitivity, floods your blood stream with excess insulin and glucose and can be terrible for your liver. I highly recommend reading this article from MDA on what you do to your body when you carb binge. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-carb-binge/#axzz1ws4oEKDp

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 05, 2012
at 10:56 PM

You can spice up your salad using some Balsamic Vinegar instead of lemon juice. Quite tasty. Or even some Coconut Aminos. What's really gonna kill you is your weekends. You can't become fat adapted by constantly throwing your body a curveball every 5 days. It's really gonna take some commitment if you want to get to ketosis. And from what it sounds like, your weekend binge days are REALLY BINGE days... Fruit smoothy for breakfast is high carb, subway subs (probably a 12") is high carb, beer and pizza high carb

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 05, 2012
at 08:18 PM

+1 "And beer and weight loss aren't friends"

C116f7e54620c6003b67cd4450a298cd

on June 05, 2012
at 08:11 PM

I think Eric is laying it out pretty well. Though it might "seem" boring, drop the smoothie on the weekends (for the first few weeks). Control sugar/carbs/insulin and you'll get in better control of your binge eating. Also, for what it's worth, add olive oil (after you've cooked stuff) to everything; salads, eggs in the morning, etc. bumping up the fat and oil intake seems to curb the cravings too! As Mark S. says, shoot for 80%+ primal! Over time, you'll start seeing and feeling better and work toward perfection. I've been at it 13 months now and everyday is a journey. It's a LIFE LONG QUEST.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 05, 2012
at 08:04 PM

The 1 gm protein per pound is per pounds of lean body mass. You can go by a rough estimate of that with the calculator here: http://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/lean-body-mass The figures I've seen vary from .5 gms per pound (sedentary) to .7 gms (light activity up to 1.5 gms for heavy body building.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:40 PM

In the new book (Art and Science of Low Carb Performance) he says 0.6 to 1.0g per lb of lean body weight. So the 1.0g is supposed to include athletes. It's possible, but 25% sounds too much high to me. I test my blood ketones everyday and if I get much about 18% (as a runner) I get bounced out of ketosis.

C4af3c6ee13a7b3a582e162731351a4f

(20)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:33 PM

Weekends will consist of a fruit smoothie in the morning - blended frozen stawberries, mangos and blueberries. Then lately I've been having a Subway sub or something similar for lunch and then one night on the weekend I will drink a couple of beers while out or at a baseball game and then a bad food like a pizza at night. I know I do very well during the week as I can see and feel it. I've bought and Mark Sisson's 21 day total body transformation but cannot sustain it for the duration. I'll binge on the weekend and eat a SAD diet for a week before getting back on the wagon. Too inconsistent

C4af3c6ee13a7b3a582e162731351a4f

(20)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:26 PM

Eric, thanks for the help. Typically I will eat 3-4 eggs in the morning with 2-3 strips of uncured bacon. Around lunch time I will have a salad with spinach, tomatoes, carrots, cucumber, onion and chicken breasts with a dressing of olive oil and fresh lemon. (not tasty though, any suggestions? With dinner I typically have meat and a vegetables, commonly a steak with asparagus, or fish & broccli etc... Drinking nothing but water during the day.

De641ff2accb4975e1f42886b43009db

(2227)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:07 PM

yup stick to straight liquor (vodka, tequila, etc) in the absence of food.

20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:06 PM

borofergie, that 18% protein threshold is set up to average people? That recomendations are given in which one of his books? i'm about to buy either tho low carb living or the performance. Did he anytime refer to athletes can do a bit more protein(in the range of 20-25%?

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7 Answers

best answer

4
Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:03 PM

I'd suggest the best thing to do would be to start with a 30 day challenge - no cheating. The toughest part will be the beginning, especially for weight loss. Doing a 30 day challenge and keeping track of it online in a public place (Marksdailyapple.com forums are a great place for this), yo will keep yourself honest, get feedback on your daily food consumption and workouts, and be able to really track your results.

Believe me, after thirty days, you WILL see results. and that will motivate you to stick with it. But the biggest struggle sounds like for you is to not binge/cheat on weekends and track back all your progress from the week. Maybe even posting your challenge here will be of benefit.

As far as getting into Ketosis, read this post at Marks Daily Apple on Ketones. It will take your body a while to become Keto adapted, especially if you are cheating on weekends with "liquid bread" (BEER), your body may never actually reach the keto adapted stage... Also check out this post on the "low carb flu" - it IS tough to radically lower carb intake, but try to limit all carbs to multicolored veggies and very minimal amounts of fruit for 10-14 days STRAIGHT no cheating and this might be your best path towards entering ketosis....

What exactly are you eating on an average "Paleo" day vs your cheat/weekend? Be specific please.

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 05, 2012
at 10:56 PM

You can spice up your salad using some Balsamic Vinegar instead of lemon juice. Quite tasty. Or even some Coconut Aminos. What's really gonna kill you is your weekends. You can't become fat adapted by constantly throwing your body a curveball every 5 days. It's really gonna take some commitment if you want to get to ketosis. And from what it sounds like, your weekend binge days are REALLY BINGE days... Fruit smoothy for breakfast is high carb, subway subs (probably a 12") is high carb, beer and pizza high carb

Cbf014e1272e1c092e774c70e78b7890

(300)

on June 05, 2012
at 10:58 PM

You are very likely consuming 10-15 times your weekly carb consumption over just a period of 24-36 hours... This kills your insulin sensitivity, floods your blood stream with excess insulin and glucose and can be terrible for your liver. I highly recommend reading this article from MDA on what you do to your body when you carb binge. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-carb-binge/#axzz1ws4oEKDp

C116f7e54620c6003b67cd4450a298cd

on June 05, 2012
at 08:11 PM

I think Eric is laying it out pretty well. Though it might "seem" boring, drop the smoothie on the weekends (for the first few weeks). Control sugar/carbs/insulin and you'll get in better control of your binge eating. Also, for what it's worth, add olive oil (after you've cooked stuff) to everything; salads, eggs in the morning, etc. bumping up the fat and oil intake seems to curb the cravings too! As Mark S. says, shoot for 80%+ primal! Over time, you'll start seeing and feeling better and work toward perfection. I've been at it 13 months now and everyday is a journey. It's a LIFE LONG QUEST.

C4af3c6ee13a7b3a582e162731351a4f

(20)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:26 PM

Eric, thanks for the help. Typically I will eat 3-4 eggs in the morning with 2-3 strips of uncured bacon. Around lunch time I will have a salad with spinach, tomatoes, carrots, cucumber, onion and chicken breasts with a dressing of olive oil and fresh lemon. (not tasty though, any suggestions? With dinner I typically have meat and a vegetables, commonly a steak with asparagus, or fish & broccli etc... Drinking nothing but water during the day.

C4af3c6ee13a7b3a582e162731351a4f

(20)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:33 PM

Weekends will consist of a fruit smoothie in the morning - blended frozen stawberries, mangos and blueberries. Then lately I've been having a Subway sub or something similar for lunch and then one night on the weekend I will drink a couple of beers while out or at a baseball game and then a bad food like a pizza at night. I know I do very well during the week as I can see and feel it. I've bought and Mark Sisson's 21 day total body transformation but cannot sustain it for the duration. I'll binge on the weekend and eat a SAD diet for a week before getting back on the wagon. Too inconsistent

10
E369d1bd1f1e42cd11d8daecf8055ea3

(105)

on June 05, 2012
at 06:29 PM

I would start by working on this:

"I always have bad weekends"

3
B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on June 05, 2012
at 06:37 PM

Why are you eating "lean meats and fat"? Seriously need to be eating "fatty meats and fat", with some more fat on top of that and a bowl full of whipped cream for desert.

You can't lean on protein, it won't work. Volek suggests strictly no-more than 18% of calories from protein, you're going to be eating a maximum of 4% carbohydrate, which leaves 78% calories from fat. I aim for 80%

Ignore calories, and just eat to you're full. Once you are in ketosis, your appetite will reduce, and your calorie intake will regulate itself.

And like sidd said, this isn't the diet for you if you "always have bad weekends". It's kinda an all or nothing thing, you don't want to be bouncing in and out of ketosis.

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:40 PM

In the new book (Art and Science of Low Carb Performance) he says 0.6 to 1.0g per lb of lean body weight. So the 1.0g is supposed to include athletes. It's possible, but 25% sounds too much high to me. I test my blood ketones everyday and if I get much about 18% (as a runner) I get bounced out of ketosis.

20203f15287a14924c714eb68a34ce6c

(596)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:06 PM

borofergie, that 18% protein threshold is set up to average people? That recomendations are given in which one of his books? i'm about to buy either tho low carb living or the performance. Did he anytime refer to athletes can do a bit more protein(in the range of 20-25%?

B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on November 13, 2012
at 01:16 PM

The 0.6 to 1g of protein per lb lean body mass is the amount that you need to maintain your muscle mass. The excess is turned into glucose, so you want to avoid it wherever possible.

C68f0b374156e5ce7a9b8358232bfed0

(637)

on November 13, 2012
at 11:16 AM

How does reducing the protein affect muscle mass? Will it not decrease?

1
3654b5b893e312b69f8db05e4e5175b5

on June 05, 2012
at 07:57 PM

Hi Dan, Congrats on changing your way of eating! Regarding how much protein you should be taking in, I follow the 30g of carbs to 15 grams of protein ratio per meal, but usually I eat probably less than 15g of carbs per meal. This usually keeps me well under 100 grams of carb a day. Here is a good reference on how much carbs you should be taking in depending on your goals: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-primal-carbohydrate-continuum/#axzz1wwtvKO6E

The key for me really is carb intake, not calorie, since carb intake will affect how hungry or full you feel later, which will ultimately affect how much food you take in overall.

Also I want to note that I think many people think that low carb means ramping up your protein intake when this isn't always the case. I basically eat a reasonable amount of protein (2-4 oz per meal, like a deck of cards), and replaced my rice/bread/pasta/carbs for veggies, and a bit of fat (from coconut oil or olive oil over my veggies), and good fats from my protein. Obviously your protein intake may change depending on if you strength train or not.

Also, when I first started this, I came with a foundation of knowledge that I got from the book "The Insulin Resistance Diet". I think that might be really helpful for you to look into. This is where I get my 30g of carbs to 15 grams of protein ratio.

And I want to note to be careful with alcohol while you're in ketosis or low carbing, since your tolerance is usually significantly reduced.

Best of luck!

1
Cf416725f639ffd1bb90764792ce7b8a

(2799)

on June 05, 2012
at 06:39 PM

Calculate your lean body mass. Underwater weighing is nice, but there's also http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/library/blbodyfatcalculator.htm

Then base your 1g per pound on the lean body mass if you want to go 1g per pound. Here are a bunch of studies giving different recommendations!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129150/

And beer and weight loss aren't friends.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 05, 2012
at 08:18 PM

+1 "And beer and weight loss aren't friends"

De641ff2accb4975e1f42886b43009db

(2227)

on June 05, 2012
at 07:07 PM

yup stick to straight liquor (vodka, tequila, etc) in the absence of food.

1
76c885d7d27e6c83542ea493ca866dcd

(2178)

on June 05, 2012
at 06:20 PM

As to your protein question, I believe the standard is 1 gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight.

So don't go by your current 300 lbs, but by your goal of.....well, whatever a good weight for 6'7" you would be!

-2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on June 07, 2012
at 03:08 PM

As per my research 300 grams of protein a day is very high. Please go through with below article.

Our protein needs depend on our age, size, and activity level. The standard method used by nutritionists to estimate our minimum daily protein requirement is to multiply the body weight in kilograms by .8, or weight in pounds by .37. This is the number of grams of protein that should be the daily minimum. According to this method, a person weighing 150 lbs. should eat 55 grams of protein per day, a 200-pound person should get 74 grams, and a 250-pound person should eat 92 grams.

http://goo.gl/O5CEC

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on June 07, 2012
at 03:12 PM

He's baaaaaacckkkkk! With even more spam. Mujahid, spam isn't paleo. Not even when you attach it to pseudo content.

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