I've been trying to educate myself on ketosis both for fat loss and for increased flexibility (decreased appetite, clarity of thought, ability to fast more easily etc.) but the more information I get the more confused I become.
Recently, I've been interested in TKD and CKD. There seems to be less information on TKD so I'm focusing on CKD for now. I understand the basic idea of eating VLC 5-6 days a week and then doing a calculated refeed once a week. The science behind this makes sense to me. That said I'm still curious if this is really a ketogenic diet? Everything I read seems to indicate that adjusting to ketosis takes well over a week if not two. And according to Mark Sisson if you're trying to become a "ketogenic athlete" this requires a couple MONTHS of adaptation to really see all the benefits. So how does CKD even work? I mean can you really even say you're in ketosis for those 5-6 days? And if so it can't be a very deep ketosis so is the fat loss just a result of an inevitable caloric deficit?
Also, according to Lyle McDonald you should eat 150 grams of protein for the first week or two to spare your muscles as you adjust to producing/utilizing ketones. But it's also suggested from other sources to consume lower amounts of protein when trying to stay in ketosis. So where would CKD fit in with protein consumption?
asked byMarcPH (1533)
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on February 10, 2013
at 07:58 PM
I can only subscribe to that it takes months to become truly keto adapted. You'll notice more and more benefits along the way (I'm not saying that ketosis is superior to other diets, just stating what I've experienced). The CKD works exactly like McDonald says. I don't really believe in it and think there are more benefits to staying strictly in ketosis. That said, i won't rule out that it works for some if you really execute it correctly.
Protein will induce gluconeogenesis. But as McDonald highlights you only need the 150g in first two weeks after that he says that you can go as low as 50g. As I've understood the CKD you don't change the protein consumption on the refeed day significantly from the other days. Again, I would say this is highly individual and something you should test for yourself. Compared to the SKD, it's probably even more important to measure (serum) ketones and gains in terms of muscle and strength as there are so many variables to tweak.
I follow a the SKD and after 1-1.5 months where I would say I have followed (or close to) a 'well formulated ketogenic diet' my max output sprinting is 10% below my peak. I still think there is room for improvement as I tweak the diet even more. To me being in ketosis is highly individual - you simple need to find out what works for you.
Something I really struggle to find out is how much protein I can/should eat given the gluconeogenic effect and how closely it correlates to carb intake. I'm currently close 1.5g/kg but thinking that I might need to increase it due to activity level in various activities.
on February 10, 2013
at 09:03 PM
I've always doubted it. McDonald wrote the book before anyone had easy access to Blood Ketone meters. From my personal experience, it takes a lot of discipline to get decent blood ketone levels by VLCing, it seems unlikely that anyone could drop in and out of deep ketosis on a weekly basis.
I'd love for someone to prove me wrong with some decent blood ketone results.
on July 05, 2017
at 09:17 AM
I am always low (0.5mmol or less) first thing in the morning. I think this has to do with cortisol levels on rising which is a natural response. Having caffeine will increase this response unless it has added fat like a bulletproof coffee. Quite often I will put off my first coffee for a couple of hours.
on March 01, 2013
at 02:43 PM
Just a quick reply: I've started doing a "proper" ketogenic diet about a year ago, and switched to a CKD[24hr refeed period, about 550-600grams of carbs] (+IF) a few months ago, and I do get back in "deep ketosis" during the the week quickly, as indicated by ketostix as well as by blood ketone test strips (don't have any right now since they're quite expensive, so I can't give you exact numbers). If I get some strips again I'll test how fast the reentering happens, not sure if it's one day only or a bit more.
Interestingly I get out of ketosis during the IF time in the morning, especially after my first (plain) coffee. Still don't know what causes this, would be surprised if it would actually be the coffee. Shortly after the first meal of the day I'm back in again.
That should've been a reply to borofergie. I have to admit I don't get how you can reply directly to a posting.