2

votes

Does caffeine (or chocolate) raise insulin, thereby stopping fat burning (ketosis)?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created July 10, 2012 at 9:06 AM

So caffeine and the stimulant in chocolate raises insulin. Insulin shuts down fat oxidation. So, if you are in ketosis, on VLC, won't drinking coffee or eating raw dark chocolate shut of that nice fat burning mode? I know when I am VLC, if I have ANY, I mean a few SIPS of tea or nibbles of cacao, I IMMEDIATELY get that "hormonally hungry" feeling.

Any thoughts?

EDIT

So I've found that on meat/fat only days, in Ketosis, caffeine or stimulants of any kind make me feel terrible, and VERY hormonally hungry between meals (with the same timing and calories that on non-caffeine days are satiating). I literally can scarcely make it to my next meal, feeling utterly starved and losing all concentration.

However, on carb-up days after exercise, I can eat some chocolate or drink some tea, and while I feel quite stimulated (perhaps too much, I seem to be sensitive), it isn't a bad feeling, and I don't get the hunger afterwards.

Interesting.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on July 24, 2012
at 12:09 AM

I drink plenty of water.

Af2662fc82df87952abb3fdf16b20aa4

(410)

on July 23, 2012
at 07:07 PM

My 100% cocoa powder has per 100g: 330kcals; 23.1g protein; 10.5g carbohydrate; 21.7g fat; 12.1g fibre (I think in the UK fibre isn't included in the total carb count, otherwise those numbers don't make sense haha)

11b7b7ba720a5cd43c74a0ef99a16adb

(3448)

on July 23, 2012
at 03:44 PM

Link? The info seems to be all over the map on caffeine. A quick search turned up studies finding: Caffeine causes/prevents insulin resistance. Caffeine prevents/worsens diabetes. Caffeine hinders/helps weight loss. All from "legit" sites like the Mayo clinic and the American Diabetes Assoc. Its seems that for every Caffeine study saying one thing, there seems to be a study saying the exact opposite.

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 23, 2012
at 01:19 PM

Caffeine, for most people, improves insulin sensitivity, and like Mscott said, also increases fatty acid oxidation.

1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

(6719)

on July 23, 2012
at 12:09 PM

Drink W A T E R

Medium avatar

(2417)

on July 11, 2012
at 05:37 AM

Caffeine or any stimulat has always made me jittery and jacked, no matter the dose or diet.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 10, 2012
at 06:12 PM

thhq-Here's a study I'd remembered reading about that: http://www.ajcn.org/content/79/1/40.short

6b365c14c646462210f3ef6b6fecace1

(1784)

on July 10, 2012
at 01:33 PM

if i'm not mistaken, thinking ABOUT food raises insulin levels. ANYTIME you eat ANYTHING, your insulin levels rises. so it may or may not be all in this person's head.... however, Insulin release also triggers the "i'm satisfied" hormones in the body. So that's the confusing bit .... wait, then it is all in the head.. ::scratches::

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 10, 2012
at 01:26 PM

The ones I've seen show cafffeine to cause insulin resistance (as per David Moss).

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:58 PM

So far as I know caffeine does not have any effect on beta oxidation of fatty acids. But maybe VLC creates a perfect storm and disrupts normal fat metabolism.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:55 PM

Yep...that's why drug store diet pills contain tons of caffeine.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:55 PM

Or it's having a fit because it's gross. =)

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:48 PM

Glad you point out how insulin doesn't kill fat-burning necessarily. as long as one is in a caloric deficit, insulin's actions will not prevent burning of fat.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:27 PM

If sipping tea makes you "hormonally hungry", whatever that means, it's in your head. That has nothing to do with insulin or fat-burning.

Medium avatar

(2417)

on July 10, 2012
at 11:32 AM

Raw, 100% cacao powder. I think my system just doesn't like stimulants.

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9 Answers

6
A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 10, 2012
at 09:20 AM

Insulin does not just throw a kill switch on fat oxidation. The levels of numerous hormones affect the rate of fatty acid oxidation at any given time. Epinephrine, which stimulants like caffeine raises, increases fatty acid oxidation. I couldn't say for sure right now, but I have read that caffeine and theobromine tend to increase fatty acid oxidation.

As far as your hunger, if such foods do raise insulin (I was unaware they did), that might cause low blood sugar, which can result in hunger. But I'm only speculating, it could be other things.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:58 PM

So far as I know caffeine does not have any effect on beta oxidation of fatty acids. But maybe VLC creates a perfect storm and disrupts normal fat metabolism.

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:48 PM

Glad you point out how insulin doesn't kill fat-burning necessarily. as long as one is in a caloric deficit, insulin's actions will not prevent burning of fat.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on July 10, 2012
at 06:12 PM

thhq-Here's a study I'd remembered reading about that: http://www.ajcn.org/content/79/1/40.short

C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 23, 2012
at 01:19 PM

Caffeine, for most people, improves insulin sensitivity, and like Mscott said, also increases fatty acid oxidation.

2
C45d7e96acd83d3a6f58193dbc140e86

on July 10, 2012
at 12:35 PM

Funny, studies have shown caffeine to both increase insulin sensitivity and to suppress appetite.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on July 10, 2012
at 01:26 PM

The ones I've seen show cafffeine to cause insulin resistance (as per David Moss).

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:55 PM

Yep...that's why drug store diet pills contain tons of caffeine.

2
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 10, 2012
at 09:48 AM

Caffeine does raise insulin, but it also causes insulin resistance- if it didn't, it wouldn't have the effect that it does of forcing energy (fat and glucose) into the bloodstream.

I think the most likely cause of your immediate hunger is the effect of either the caffeine or the tannins on your gut, which would stimulate appetite (stimulating gastric acid, speeding gastric emptying etc.).

1
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:26 PM

Black, plain coffee won't raise your insulin in any meaningful way.

What shuts down any and all fat-burning is eating enough calories to support your energy needs (read: maintenance) and/or eating more than those amount of calories.

You will burn bodyfat while in some sort of caloric deficit. If you are in caloric deficit you won't have to worry about insulin.

0
785efa3950951957e65fa17efb25b078

(452)

on July 23, 2012
at 02:26 PM

Insulin is not the only way to stop/start fat storage/burning: http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

Caffeine potentially decreases insulin sensitivity: http://examine.com/supplements/Caffeine/#xmain_clinical_results

0
24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on July 10, 2012
at 02:12 PM

Oh lordy. Fat burning vs. carb burning is irrelevant. If you have a lower RQ (burn more fat vs. carb) or a higher one, it doesn't matter. It's like if you have a mixed fuel furnace. You put oil and coal in it. The furnace burns more oil than coal when that tank is more full, but it's still heating the same home. Is the furnace running on 70% oil more of a "fat burning" furnace than one running on 70% coal.

I don't think so.

Nutritional ketosis and being a fat burning beast are gimmicks people.

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:54 PM

? Have you had tests done to determine whether your insulin level rises in response to tea-sipping? It's not all that clear that caffeine raises insulin levels.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/coffee-diabetes-and-weight-control-research-review.html

Granted these studies were not done on VLC dieters. In your VLC-state of ketosis maybe it is possible that stimulants like caffeine have that effect. Show us the numbers!

Medium avatar

(2417)

on July 11, 2012
at 05:37 AM

Caffeine or any stimulat has always made me jittery and jacked, no matter the dose or diet.

0
Cf416725f639ffd1bb90764792ce7b8a

(2799)

on July 10, 2012
at 11:24 AM

I lost a good bit of weight while drinking my usual 6 cups a day. I also toss a heaping teaspoon of navitas cocao powder into my whey shakes a couple of times a day. None of this knocked me out of ketosis.

Sure there's no sugar in that dark chocolate?

Medium avatar

(2417)

on July 10, 2012
at 11:32 AM

Raw, 100% cacao powder. I think my system just doesn't like stimulants.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on July 10, 2012
at 12:55 PM

Or it's having a fit because it's gross. =)

0
Bb3d1772b28c02da2426e40dfcb533f5

(5381)

on July 10, 2012
at 09:58 AM

Chocolates primary stimulants are theobromine, and phenethylamine, although theobromine is a xanthine family compound like caffiene, and there is a tiny amount of caffiene in chocolate. Personally chocamine or chocolate extracts stimulant action kicks caffienes or coffees behind, being both stronger and unlike caffiene, slightly mood boosting.

It seems little known to many people however, chocolate (or rather raw unprocessed cacao) is quite full of carbs apparently.

I cant remember if they are fibre or sugar or what though. I only know because its considered a forbidden food on the SCD diet because of its carb content (dark or not), and I spent a while trying to find what kind it was, but ive forgotten what I found.

That said, rabid knee shaking fear of a macronutrient probably isnt healthy. Besides you could always switch to chocamine, which has no sugar or carbs (but it is pretty strong tho, as mentioned, stronger than coffee or energy drinks, although nothing druglike)

Af2662fc82df87952abb3fdf16b20aa4

(410)

on July 23, 2012
at 07:07 PM

My 100% cocoa powder has per 100g: 330kcals; 23.1g protein; 10.5g carbohydrate; 21.7g fat; 12.1g fibre (I think in the UK fibre isn't included in the total carb count, otherwise those numbers don't make sense haha)

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