I have been Paleo for a month now and yes I have had a trip up but I was wholly paleo for 3 weeks before a day off the wagon as it were. I am paleo for the health benefits but I also am intrigued by weight loss and want to try ketosis. I thought I might have been in ketosis as I IF everyday and do so comfortably and though that was a sign of ketosis. I wake up and won't eat until ~1/2pm and then I will have a meal of cabbage, brussel sprouts, broccolli/cauliflower, mushrooms and a fatty meat. Admittedly I could eat alot of meat but then I may not have another meal the rest of the day. In fact the meal at 1pm may even be delayed until 5/6/7pm. However, my morning consists of coffee with the solid part of coconut milk I have pre-chilled (cream?). I have stopped that this week.
I know that's alot of veg but it's only one meal and I thought they were low carb veggies? I am don't really know what I am doing tbh. I have read, re-read and am now confused again. I just don't know. I want to be healthy hence paleo but I know want to additionally lean out. I am 11 stone and 5ft 10in. I am muscular not too noticeably, my legs are ok but you could never tell I had strong arms. I want to reduce bf% but I don't want to lose muscle. I am scared if I don't eat the protein I will lose muscle but then I am scared of eating too much and so kicking off glucogenesis. I know people may say it's hard to eat too much meat/protein but I love it, I could easily sit down to a pack of bacon and 6 eggs in one sitting or like last week I ate 1 pound of beef mince in my sole meal of the day; had it with the aforementioned veggies.
I am really confused and would love your help!
FYI Despite originally thinking so, I now don't think I am in ketosis as I bought keto stix and they are negative or have 'trace' ketones in morning. I also don't have smelly breath as far as I am aware of and I definitely don't have stinky pee. I do have constipation though possibly from eating all the sprouts! I supplement daily on 3-5 dessertspoons of extra strength cod lover oil <-- is that ok?
asked byRebecca_L (637)
Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!
on November 12, 2012
at 08:18 PM
Ketosis is governed by your brains need for glucose. If you fail to provide 100-120g a day of glucose (from dietary carbohydrate, stored glycogen reserves or gluconeogenesis) then you meet some of that need with ketones.
I've got to "deep purple" but only by restricting my carbs to <25g Net Carbs (ie with the fibre subtracted), restricting my protein to <15% and exercising.
There are lots of reasons why your ketostix might not be turning purple:
- They're out of date
- They've got damp
- You're drinking too much liquid and diluting them out
- You're testing at the wrong time (they're highest in the evening, lowest in the morning).
- You're burning them all up.
However, the most likely reason is that you're not deep in ketosis are:
- You're eating too many carbs
- You're eating too much protein (more than 0.8g per lb of lean body mass)
- You're eating too many calories
- You're fundamentally a bad person.
Number 2 will probably catch you out the most. (I made the last one up).
In my experience ketostix are a pretty fair guide to blood ketones. If my blood ketones are over 2mmol/l then the stix will be deep purple.
on December 06, 2012
at 05:55 PM
You said your purpose is to lose body fat. If that's your purpose, it's useful to understand that the reason ketosis causes weight loss is because it suppresses appetite, causing you to eat hypocalorically without effort.
(A hypocaloric diet is one which provides fewer calories than your body burns.)
This causes the person to enter a virtuous cycle where they eat hypocalorically, which induces continuing ketosis, which suppresses appetite, which causes them to eat hypocalorically, etc. It's possible for an overweight person to eat only 400 to 600 calories every other day in this situation, without any hunger between meals. The extreme case of this is a long-term, total fast. There is no hunger on long fasts, because ketosis suppresses appetite. I've fasted as long as 30 days, and I wasn't hungry. It's a remarkable thing.
The Atkins people have spread the misconception that ketosis is an indication that the body is burning its own fat. This isn't true. Ketosis can indicate two things: (1) That you're eating certain obligately ketogenic foods like coconut oil, or (2) that you are eating such small amounts of carbs and protein that the liver starts manufacturing more ketone bodies and less glucose. In the case of (2), the liver doesn't care where it gets the raw material for the ketone bodies. It can make ketone bodies from the fat you eat, not just from fat that is stored in your body.
You can very easily be in high ketosis without burning net amounts of body fat. I myself have been in this state for a couple of years now. In fact you can gain body fat in high ketosis. I've done that too. If you want to burn net amounts of body fat, you need to eat hypocalorically.
You asked in comments about 0.8 g of protein per pound of lean bodyweight.
The rule of thumb for protein for an adult on a highly ketogenic diet is 0.8 g per KILOGRAM, not per pound. For you that's 66 g/day. That's only an estimated starting point, and it's for a highly ketogenic diet, which may not be what you want. The best way to use this rule of thumb is to try it and then adjust it according to measured results. To measure results, you need to buy a blood ketone meter.
Coaxing the body to enter high ketosis is much harder than most people think. As little as 7.5 grams of carbs per day has been shown in a scientific study to reduce ketosis markedly. I can tell you from my experience that a single stalk of celery (which contains less than a gram of carbs) reduces my ketosis noticeably. A pound of mince contains about 90 grams of protein; right there you're over your limit. Your vegetable meal probably contains enough carbs to prevent you from going above very low levels of ketosis.
If you're serious about this, I suggest that you start with a diet that is guaranteed to cause high ketosis. Then gradually make the diet less extreme until you get to a point you like. Such a starting diet, for you, would be 66 grams per day protein, zero carbs except what you consume in meat, and the rest of calories as fat. An unpleasant diet to be sure, but you'll only be on it for about a week. Then you can add some carbs back.
And again, if you want to lose weight, keep in mind that you have to eat hypocalorically.
Also, you would probably reach higher ketosis if you divided your day's food into four small meals, because the insulin impact (the highest spike) would be lower.
on November 12, 2012
at 07:59 PM
I wonder if you're consuming too many veggies to support ketosis? Check out his sample ketogenic menu plan: http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/ketogenic-diet-menu.html. I'll quote the author here:
Here are a few examples of a daily ketogenic diet menu. As you can see, it comes down to eating controlled portions of meat, as much fat as you like, and low carb veggies...."
Note the author's wording "as much fat as you like" while the amounts of meat (protein) and low carb veggies are understood to be controlled. This is a single source albeit a similar to other available examples. Perhaps you might consider trying this approach for a few weeks.
on November 13, 2012
at 02:31 AM
Ketostix only show excess ketones that spill in the urine, and only one kind of ketones (there are two types). They are not a reliable indicator of ketosis. There are blood ketone meters that will give you a much more accurate assessment of ketosis, but the strips are pretty expensive (~$5 each).
Tips to get into ketosis: Moderate protein--enough to preserve your lean body mass is OK, but too much protein can be converted to glucose and knock you out of ketosis. Lots of fat--as much as 85% of caloric intake Very few carbs--not knowing the portion size of the veggies you eat, you want to aim for fewer than 20 grams of carbs net (minus fiber grams). Load the veggies you do eat with butter or other healthy fat.
When in ketosis, you may be thirsty, have bad smelling breath and urine. Things may taste funny, and you should not be hungry at all.
For vitamins, eat organ meats/offal as well as muscle meats.
on December 06, 2012
at 12:41 PM
After eating low carb off and on for over 10 years, I was frustrated that I had never reached ketosis until I tried the "6 Week Cure for the Middle Age Middle", by the Docters Eades. After two weeks, I am in constant ketosis. I've eaten very low carb a lot, so I don't think that's what worked, but the three new things I did -- eliminating caffeine, adding coconut milk, no dairy, and taking the supplement luceine, may have done the trick. My weight is good, but I'd still like to lose another 10 pounds. As a 63 year old female, 5'5" and a 139 pounds, I did lose 4 pounds on the first week of Drs. Eades "cure". I'm hoping to lose another 6. I was just so excited when that stick turned purple!!!!
on November 12, 2012
at 08:45 PM
Dang it tripper maybe you should change your mushrooms. More hope, more change. Burn your mothers Atkins and try the sweet potatoes you evolved to eat.
on November 12, 2012
at 08:25 PM
track your carbs. Under 25g is ketosis. Thats a sure fire way to control your ketiosis. Make sure you do re-feeds. Also check out bulletproof coffee (adding coconut oil and organic grassfed butter to coffe while IFing) that kickstarts ketosis and aids to IFing.
on November 12, 2012
at 10:45 PM
Thank you all very much for your quick responses! I still am slightly confused in that could I really be eating too much if I eat, well so little? Is my eating too infrequently hampering weight loss and ketosis? I fry everything in lots and lots of coconut oil and try to choose the fattest cuts of meat. I will try reducing carbs but I have an embarrassing question so please don't ridicule me but I find it hard to get rid of CW. To me vegetables mean vitamins and nutrients. I am kind of scared about not getting enough as I can't guarantee my meat is grass-fed. I buy mostly supermarket meat but ensure its local (NI) or at least British hoping that will make it more likely to be grass-fed. How do I get vitamins and minerals if my meat isn't grass-fed?
Also I thought BFC in the morning kicks you out of ketosis? The link mentions nuts, aren't they high in omega 6?!
Sorry, I'm just getting frustrated that I don't think I'm doing this right. :(