12

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Paleo diet vrs ketogenic Diet. If paleo is a nutritional solution for many of the diseases of civilization, is a Ketogenic Diet even a better solution? In what context would a Ketogenic Diet not be a better solution for Diabetes, CVD, CKD, hi BP?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created April 27, 2011 at 4:21 AM

If paleo eating is great for us who are attempting to become more healthy after years of abuse, then why is not a truly ketogenic diet even better?

And for those people who have metabolic problems, wouldn't a ketogenic diet solve those problems even faster than a paleo diet which allows more carbs than a ketogenic diet. There are type 2 diabetics that have truly reverse their disease by a ketogenic diet.

We know that a ketogenic diet is fairly successful in treating epileptic children.

A ketogenic diet has successfully been shown to reverse kidney disease in diabetic rats as reported in this study. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110420184429.htm

The principal researcher, Dr Charles Mobbs, was interviewed by Jimmy Moore this week in which he talks about his research and what it might mean for humans.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWYdHtBU9k8&feature=youtu.be

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YLAx-NclIo&feature=youtu.be

We see the many success stories with paleo here. But we rarely hear of success stories of truly ketogenic eaters, ie 87% fat, 8% protein, 5% carbs as defined by Dr. Mobbs. Is that because it is too "hard" or are people just lazy about their health? They say it is not for me.

In what context is a truly ketogenic diet not advised?

00cd3b6f51530a6832fcda1712edbec3

(2411)

on February 18, 2013
at 11:37 PM

Throw out your ketostix — they are worse than useless. They measure only acetoacetone spilled into the urine, which is not a marker for ketosis. It just measures whether your body is using all the acetoacetone being produced. Also, after about two weeks in ketosis, the muscles stop using this ketone and start using another ketone, beta-hyrdoxybutryate, which the urinary strips don't detect.

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 27, 2011
at 05:02 AM

Great question. We need a thorough smackdown on this topic! The gauntlet is down!

B4ec9ce369e43ea83f06ee645169cee0

on April 27, 2011
at 04:38 AM

I think this question needs a bounty!

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4 Answers

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3
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on April 27, 2011
at 05:03 AM

I know one person with metabolic disease who had severe problems going into ketosis. Her body would refuse. She would almost collapse because of no energy on many occasions when trying to avoid carbs. Ironically, she is very much convinced that avoiding carbs is the way for her to improve her health issues. So she has spent a lot of effort trying to eat really healthy, take vitamins, etc just to get her body healthy enough to make the transition to ketosis without severe physical collapse. She says over a year's worth of effort, she has improved greatly and her body will now go into ketosis, albeit reluctantly at times.

She says she has researched this a ton and there are some people whose bodies are SOOO screwed up, that they have similar issues. Examples are some heavily obese people who have abdominal surgery to prevent themselves from overeating, and they physically are not able to overeat, but yet they still can't lose weight. Sure, they lose some, maybe 150#, but then the weight loss stalls long term. They can't seem to go into efficient fat burning mode. So I don't think ketosis is for everyone, although I think it would probably help a lot of people.

I have also heard that some people feel low carb can contribute to thyroid slow down. Could be again that a response from a sickened body that is not accustomed historically to a eating regime, may not go as expected. Sometimes you solve on eproblem but cause another. Each of us are such individuals that I don't think there can ever be a one size fits all system of eating. Those from the tropics, whose ancestors have always had carb, may well do better with some carb. For others, perhaps not. We don't know the details of what happens in the body well enough to currently make any blanket statements.

Also, from a personal perspective, I seem to do well with an occasional potato in my diet. Also, it may be assumed in the question, but it was not mentioned about the types of ketogenic foods eaten. I am assuming you mean ketogenic and paleo together right? If not, then 3 sticks of margarine and some lowcarb icecream would be considered ketogenic, but I would certainly not recommend them!

2
6da7ce6a4a250c46a6e78b5b4e22da83

(987)

on April 27, 2011
at 05:33 AM

It seems like a fallacy to think that if a diet cures some specific diseases, it is therefore ideal for more healthy people as well.

I've been addicted to the idea of taking advantage of ketones for some time. I seem to go into ketosis easily (after a day or two I'm turning ketostix purple) - but I feel miserable, depressed and tired. I've stuck it out for five or six seeks without any real improvement. I'm just now beginning to accept that low carb may not be good for me. Perhaps I simply run better with some starches in my diet.

Also, I've heard claims that prolonged ketosis may have some negative effects on thyroid and testosterone production. Again, because the fact that ketosis cures some diseases does not mean it doesn't have some downsides of its own...

00cd3b6f51530a6832fcda1712edbec3

(2411)

on February 18, 2013
at 11:37 PM

Throw out your ketostix — they are worse than useless. They measure only acetoacetone spilled into the urine, which is not a marker for ketosis. It just measures whether your body is using all the acetoacetone being produced. Also, after about two weeks in ketosis, the muscles stop using this ketone and start using another ketone, beta-hyrdoxybutryate, which the urinary strips don't detect.

2
Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on April 27, 2011
at 05:00 AM

It might be good for some diseases like those with brains or kidneys which need to run on ketones. But it can't exactly be said that other diseases that respond to a ketogenic diet need ketones. For non-brain-kidney-whatever-can-run-on-ketones related diseases if there isn't a 20% carbohydrate control group then we may not extrapolate the results to a ketogenic diet.

Also it can't be said that a type 2 diabetic "reversed" their condition unless they passed a glucose tolerance test after properly adapting to more carbohydrates. Managing blood sugar is not to be equated with curing. A ketogenic diet in no way shape or form cures the condition by itself, although it might be useful in managing it, but then again it might not be necessary.

When is is not advised? High-intensity glycolytic exercise. Srsly.

1
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on April 27, 2011
at 02:52 PM

I would say that the person's goals dictate the answer.

Meaning that if you are an athlete using pretty much in any manner explosiveness and/or the glycolytic pathway then a ketogenic diet IS NOT going to improve your performance. Ketones are great for maintenance and fueling the body for just kind of living life in a relaxed manner, but they ARE NOT good for fueling muscles on the fly, as in endeavors that use the glycolytic pathway.

If one is not concerned with this sort of athletic activity and is say, just a fat person trying to lose weight quickly, then yes a ketogenic diet is fine.

Then for those specific situations, like the OP mentioned epilepsy, etc yes a ketogenic diet has been proven to be useful.

Goals dictate the answer.

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