1

votes

Ketogenic diet - extreme thirst, chapped lips

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 15, 2013 at 4:29 PM

I just got results back from my rheumatologist yesterday, and I found that my case of Ankylosing Spondylitis is progressing (spine is showing signs of falling apart). That motivated me to cut out everything but meat for a couple months to see if I can completely halt the progression plus clear up some major digestive distress. I feel great on the ketogenic diet...the inflammation goes way down, but the problem is that after a week, I get so thirsty that I can't seem to drink enough water. My lips even start getting chapped and bleed. Despite guzzling tons, what can I do? If I add sweet potato or squash, I damage my spine.

Any advice? Thanks!

Lindy

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on June 03, 2013
at 06:02 PM

Biotin is another vitamin I've heard associated with chapped lips. You might want to check you are getting enough. You may not want to take it at night if you decide to supplement though- it makes your dreams more vivid. This is not always a good thing.

70c75942b975919dfbed8dddbd767b60

(289)

on June 03, 2013
at 05:39 PM

Please please read Jolaine's story linked from my answer. You really need to understand what this disease does to people. I'm not sure why you assumed that Lindy didn't consult doctors?

7e13e284a1bafd7b4de14a50ee96140c

(322)

on January 18, 2013
at 05:23 AM

yea im not sure of the mechanism but im confident thats directly related to my chapped, dry lips. how is the high fat inuit diet related though? at the end of the day its whatever work for you

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 16, 2013
at 11:07 AM

Side note...please have compassion for people like me who are banging on every door. You can't imagine what some of us have been through with conventional/naturopathic medicine. I've paid over $50,000 to combat this beast. Why else would I be asking a bunch of strangers? Desperation.

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 16, 2013
at 11:02 AM

Interesting...it seems like increasing fats works. This would make sense when you think of the diet of the Inuit (mostly fat).

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 16, 2013
at 11:01 AM

Uh...I have been working closely for 7 years with a wide variety of doctors. This is so cutting edge that they don't know about it yet. In fact, one of my docs is on the forefront, and he's avidly looking at these studies with me as I try this. I prize Paleohacks because there are many people traveling the same roads, and the collective advice from around the world is incredibly valuable. Not all comments are useful, but I've often been amazed at the knowledge here.

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 16, 2013
at 10:59 AM

Been tested for diabetes, and I don't have it (fortunately). Should I be eating more animal fat then instead of the meat? Straight cuts of fat, for example? Thanks!

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 09:06 AM

Lindy, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. Scottts is right that when you eat too much protein, the body burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete all the nitrogen, it's plausible that the body increases your thirst. It's also important for you to know that increased thirst can be a symptom of serious disease including diabetes.

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 08:37 AM

Lindy, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. Scottts is right that when you eat too much protein, the body burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete it, it's plausible that the body increases your thirst. It's also important for you to know that thirst can be a symptom of serious disease including diabetes.

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 08:34 AM

Lindy, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. You've been misinformed about what a ketogenic diet is. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. Scottts is right that when you eat too much protein, the body burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete it, it's plausible that the body increases your thirst. Thirst can also be a symptom of serious disease.

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 08:32 AM

Linday, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. You've been misinformed about what a ketogenic diet is. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. Scottts is right that when you eat too much protein, the body burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete it, the body increases your thirst. It's possible that this is why you're thirsty. Thirst can also be a symptom of serious disease

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on January 16, 2013
at 08:31 AM

Is this process described in The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living or do you have another reference where I can read more into this? Lately I've experienced increased urination while it smells stronger than usual. I don't sweat at all though.

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 08:30 AM

Linday, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. You've been misinformed about what a ketogenic diet is. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. Scottts is correct that when you eat too much protein, the body converts it into glucose and burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of excess nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete it, the body increases your thirst. It's possible that this is why you're thirsty.

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on January 16, 2013
at 02:52 AM

Sorry. You're beyond my expertise now. Good luck.

Fa666905e4ed72858084dbcfed164daf

(649)

on January 16, 2013
at 01:42 AM

RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:44 PM

Yes, I did the London AS diet without success for a year before I went super-strict autoimmune paleo. The London Diet allows dairy, nightshades, nuts, and eggs that all cause me problems (as well as all FODMAPs foods...those are out too). Abstaining from other foods keeps the pain down and keeps me off my meds. If I eat those foods, the inflammation goes up. I'm just in a desperate race to figure this out before they put me on the biologic drugs again. :(

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:41 PM

I would be eating just protein, so lots of it to keep my weight up (super thin right now...underweight). I don't know the exact amount. Is there any way to deal with the ammonia on the ketogenic diet?

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:39 PM

Interesting! But I was eating berries at the time I first noticed the thirst/chapped lips. I figured it may be even worse if I have to cut them out for a couple months. But it worth a try to supplement a little just to see if it reduces the problem. Thanks!

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:36 PM

Yes, I definitely should have enough salt in my diet because I add very high quality sea salt to my meats. I can't eat coconut (FODMAPs), but I can eat the oil - I use that to fry the meat in. It seems like more salt would increase thirst though?

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:35 PM

Oh, I also ate low glycemic fruits such as organic berries, which I seemed to do o.k. on.

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:32 PM

I have been on the autoimmune protocol for about 2 years now...and my gut lining is not healing yet. The only two meats I avoid are salmon and chicken (cause an autoimmune reaction for some reason), but I eat a wide variety of other meats: fish, mussels, clams, shrimp, grassfed beef, local free-range pork, duck, deer, boar, etc. I was eating meat and veggies that included salad greens, carrots, squash, and an occasional sweet potato, but this hasn't stopped the flares and damage, and since my gut is worse than ever, I thought I would try what a few others have done and go straight meat.

86c97b2779feab3c330f5e1c5fea7e25

(2312)

on January 15, 2013
at 10:53 PM

This...add some sea salt to your food and/or drink a glass of water with a bouillon cube

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on January 15, 2013
at 10:20 PM

You can probably get away just fine with the autoimmune protocol -- basic Paleo but eliminates a few more things that are known to exacerbate inflammatory and autoimmune conditions. And that would open you up to a lot more food variety while still keeping your AS from progressing.

B4e1fa6a8cf43d2b69d97a99dfca262c

(10255)

on January 15, 2013
at 04:51 PM

what animals/cuts of meat are you consuming?

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8 Answers

6
4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on January 15, 2013
at 05:27 PM

Do you have enough sodium to absorb the water that you are drinking? Sodium requirements are higher on a ketogenic diet. Check out The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living (and their second book Low Carbohydrate Performance) by Dr. Jeff Volek and Dr. Stephen Phinney .

Additionally, the "Perfect Health Diet" suggests that low carb dieting can lower stomach mucus has other side effects (like the ones you describe.) They suggest, on their Ketogenic plan, you get 50 grams of carbohydrate calories from safe starches (like sweet potato or white rice), and you can possibly add more starches by taking Coconut or MCT oil (which helps produce ketones).

If you are doing the ketogenic diet for health, read at least one or two of the books, so that you can do it safely and know the long term issues and how to deal with them.

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:36 PM

Yes, I definitely should have enough salt in my diet because I add very high quality sea salt to my meats. I can't eat coconut (FODMAPs), but I can eat the oil - I use that to fry the meat in. It seems like more salt would increase thirst though?

86c97b2779feab3c330f5e1c5fea7e25

(2312)

on January 15, 2013
at 10:53 PM

This...add some sea salt to your food and/or drink a glass of water with a bouillon cube

3
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on January 15, 2013
at 04:50 PM

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:39 PM

Interesting! But I was eating berries at the time I first noticed the thirst/chapped lips. I figured it may be even worse if I have to cut them out for a couple months. But it worth a try to supplement a little just to see if it reduces the problem. Thanks!

2
7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on January 15, 2013
at 10:14 PM

How much protein are you eating? Eating too much protein and burning it for fuel generates ammonia which is a toxin and has to be gotten rid of. This could cause lots of urination/sweating/water loss.

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 08:30 AM

Linday, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. You've been misinformed about what a ketogenic diet is. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. Scottts is correct that when you eat too much protein, the body converts it into glucose and burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of excess nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete it, the body increases your thirst. It's possible that this is why you're thirsty.

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 08:34 AM

Lindy, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. You've been misinformed about what a ketogenic diet is. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. Scottts is right that when you eat too much protein, the body burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete it, it's plausible that the body increases your thirst. Thirst can also be a symptom of serious disease.

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 16, 2013
at 10:59 AM

Been tested for diabetes, and I don't have it (fortunately). Should I be eating more animal fat then instead of the meat? Straight cuts of fat, for example? Thanks!

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 08:32 AM

Linday, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. You've been misinformed about what a ketogenic diet is. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. Scottts is right that when you eat too much protein, the body burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete it, the body increases your thirst. It's possible that this is why you're thirsty. Thirst can also be a symptom of serious disease

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 09:06 AM

Lindy, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. Scottts is right that when you eat too much protein, the body burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete all the nitrogen, it's plausible that the body increases your thirst. It's also important for you to know that increased thirst can be a symptom of serious disease including diabetes.

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:41 PM

I would be eating just protein, so lots of it to keep my weight up (super thin right now...underweight). I don't know the exact amount. Is there any way to deal with the ammonia on the ketogenic diet?

82166cc32b6cf26de33b69f58fb583b1

on January 16, 2013
at 08:37 AM

Lindy, a high protein diet is not a ketogenic diet. A ketogenic diet is very low in carbs and it also restricts protein. High protein lowers ketosis. It doesn't raise ketosis. A ketogenic diet is high in fat, not protein. Scottts is right that when you eat too much protein, the body burns it for fuel. This produces a lot of nitrogen which must be excreted in the urine. In order to make enough urine to excrete it, it's plausible that the body increases your thirst. It's also important for you to know that thirst can be a symptom of serious disease including diabetes.

Ed0cb30f40daff568778b776b2a5a81d

(943)

on January 16, 2013
at 08:31 AM

Is this process described in The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living or do you have another reference where I can read more into this? Lately I've experienced increased urination while it smells stronger than usual. I don't sweat at all though.

7f8bc7ce5c34aae50408d31812c839b0

(2698)

on January 16, 2013
at 02:52 AM

Sorry. You're beyond my expertise now. Good luck.

0
70c75942b975919dfbed8dddbd767b60

(289)

on June 03, 2013
at 05:31 PM

I recently found this article on The Paleo Mom site. It's a story written by an AS sufferer named Jolaine:

Part 1

Part 2

(it's part 2, but the link to part 1 is at the beginning)

Hopefully it will give you more options to explore.

Btw, it was a really sad story, but also encouraging because now she has the tools to better manage the disease. Also a reminder not to make quick judgments against people. Prejudice is especially easy to do if you think you're an expert on something (many doctors). When will the "experts" realize that there's a lot we don't know about the human body?

0
7e13e284a1bafd7b4de14a50ee96140c

on January 16, 2013
at 02:56 AM

my lips get chapped whenever i skip my omega3 supplement

7e13e284a1bafd7b4de14a50ee96140c

(322)

on January 18, 2013
at 05:23 AM

yea im not sure of the mechanism but im confident thats directly related to my chapped, dry lips. how is the high fat inuit diet related though? at the end of the day its whatever work for you

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 16, 2013
at 11:02 AM

Interesting...it seems like increasing fats works. This would make sense when you think of the diet of the Inuit (mostly fat).

0
1ccc0b0b7a756cd42466cef8f450d0cb

(1801)

on January 15, 2013
at 04:58 PM

Have you heard of the London AS diet? http://www.kickas.org/londondiet.shtml

It sounds like you might given what you said about the sweet potato and squash. If not, it is basically a low starch diet designed to starve the organism that is responsible for the symptoms. I don't see why you would have to abstain from fruit or other carbs though.

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 15, 2013
at 11:44 PM

Yes, I did the London AS diet without success for a year before I went super-strict autoimmune paleo. The London Diet allows dairy, nightshades, nuts, and eggs that all cause me problems (as well as all FODMAPs foods...those are out too). Abstaining from other foods keeps the pain down and keeps me off my meds. If I eat those foods, the inflammation goes up. I'm just in a desperate race to figure this out before they put me on the biologic drugs again. :(

0
Bbae431256192d2c57ba2a2122d12cd3

(84)

on January 15, 2013
at 04:43 PM

I have this problem too, although i'm not ketogenic, but i'm eating low carb.

-2
D8eb01c4eed9c2fe05b915d1d798d50e

on January 16, 2013
at 01:02 AM

Good god, why are you asking a bunch of strangers on the Internet to help you deal with a disease? You need to speak with your doctors about this!

Having said that you may want to have a look at this, and take it to your doctor:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8835506

Low starch diet doesn't mean ketogenic.

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 16, 2013
at 11:07 AM

Side note...please have compassion for people like me who are banging on every door. You can't imagine what some of us have been through with conventional/naturopathic medicine. I've paid over $50,000 to combat this beast. Why else would I be asking a bunch of strangers? Desperation.

Fa666905e4ed72858084dbcfed164daf

(649)

on January 16, 2013
at 01:42 AM

RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

B1076248dde479773e75044818e1878c

(458)

on January 16, 2013
at 11:01 AM

Uh...I have been working closely for 7 years with a wide variety of doctors. This is so cutting edge that they don't know about it yet. In fact, one of my docs is on the forefront, and he's avidly looking at these studies with me as I try this. I prize Paleohacks because there are many people traveling the same roads, and the collective advice from around the world is incredibly valuable. Not all comments are useful, but I've often been amazed at the knowledge here.

70c75942b975919dfbed8dddbd767b60

(289)

on June 03, 2013
at 05:39 PM

Please please read Jolaine's story linked from my answer. You really need to understand what this disease does to people. I'm not sure why you assumed that Lindy didn't consult doctors?

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