3

votes

Is diet or exercise more important for BMD?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 16, 2013 at 2:22 AM

I always used to think that k2 and d3 were the critical factors for BMD, but then I read this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21162947 which says "Type IIB human skeletal muscle fibers positively correlate with bone mineral density irrespective to age" and it got me thinking that activities that Increase Super Fast Twitch IIB muscles might likely be more important than even supplementing with k2/d3. What's your take on this?

I theorize it might be because IIB muscles have higher ca2+ signaling than slow and regular fast twitch fibers so, in the same way that k2 puts calcium where it should go, Super Fast Twitch muscles also keep calcium where it is supposed to be. So which do you think is more important for BMD, exercise or diet; or do you think they're equal?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 20, 2013
at 04:52 PM

I thought this is what you were arguing since you said "Wasting is common in the geriatric, as is **protein deficiency**. **Protein intake correlates with BMD** as well. So I'd wager **a lot of it is diet**. D/K2/Calcium are all important, **but bone has a significant protein component**."

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 20, 2013
at 04:51 PM

Okay, I thought from your post you were saying that protein was important for bmd, in the study it says "Dr. Kerstetter and colleagues found a significant reduction in calcium absorption, secondary hyperparathyroidism and increased serum calcitriol when women consumed dietary protein levels of 0.7 or 0.8 g/kg body weight but not when they consumed 1.0 or 2.1 g of protein/kg body weight." and " intakes higher than the current RDA for protein (0.8 g/kg body weight) are required to protect against this undesirable side effect of lower protein intakes (38)." So more protein might be better.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 20, 2013
at 03:55 PM

Diet suffers a lot from the cocktail effect: synergisms and competitive inhibitions... a terribly complex science to study. I don't see nearly enough multivariate analysis in nutrition sciences.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 20, 2013
at 03:51 PM

I'm not convinced there's much advantage to be had going over minimum protein needs, the problem being that a sizeable number of folks do not meet minimum protein needs, particularly in the geriatric.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 20, 2013
at 02:56 PM

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/3/866S.full I found this article interesting, it discusses the issue and hypothesizes that the role of protein on BMD might be modulated by calcium/d.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 20, 2013
at 02:42 PM

I wonder though if it's just that the people who eat more protein also eat more calories and are TF bigger everywhere (including their bones). I'd be more convinced that protein increases bmd if I saw that the highest protein macro ratio led to increased bmd controlling for total dietary calories.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 19, 2013
at 03:03 AM

Lol jack, one day I'm gonna convince you of the benefits of iib muscle fibers. Whatever you wind up saying is the way to counter emfs and balance circadian rhythm, I'm going to prove that extremely short duration high intensity activities also work towards that same goal using possibly similar mechanisms. I was hoping you'd say that cellular calcium disregulation was responsible for emf damage so I could point out that iib fibers have higher calcium spark activity possibly upregulating the clock genes that calcium manages, but that didn't happen. Mark my words ;).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25477)

on February 18, 2013
at 11:19 PM

neither........but you knew I would say it.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on February 16, 2013
at 04:35 AM

Such comparisons are difficult to answer since diet and exercise are fairly broad concepts. Compared to weight bearing exercise I'd say it's more important to avoid hardcore deficiencies, but once you're replete I doubt increasing vitamin D levels (for example) a few ng/dl matters nearly as much.

  • Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

    asked by

    (10989)
  • Views
    1.6K
  • Last Activity
    1285D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

2 Answers

best answer

2
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 18, 2013
at 12:51 PM

Wasting is common in the geriatric, as is protein deficiency. Protein intake correlates with BMD as well. So I'd wager a lot of it is diet. D/K2/Calcium are all important, but bone has a significant protein component.

Of course, I think there's quite a bit of activity components as well. As surfin' points out, activity will necessarily cause all sorts of hormonal changes, release of growth factors, chemocine secretion, etc...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 20, 2013
at 03:51 PM

I'm not convinced there's much advantage to be had going over minimum protein needs, the problem being that a sizeable number of folks do not meet minimum protein needs, particularly in the geriatric.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 20, 2013
at 03:55 PM

Diet suffers a lot from the cocktail effect: synergisms and competitive inhibitions... a terribly complex science to study. I don't see nearly enough multivariate analysis in nutrition sciences.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 20, 2013
at 04:51 PM

Okay, I thought from your post you were saying that protein was important for bmd, in the study it says "Dr. Kerstetter and colleagues found a significant reduction in calcium absorption, secondary hyperparathyroidism and increased serum calcitriol when women consumed dietary protein levels of 0.7 or 0.8 g/kg body weight but not when they consumed 1.0 or 2.1 g of protein/kg body weight." and " intakes higher than the current RDA for protein (0.8 g/kg body weight) are required to protect against this undesirable side effect of lower protein intakes (38)." So more protein might be better.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 20, 2013
at 02:42 PM

I wonder though if it's just that the people who eat more protein also eat more calories and are TF bigger everywhere (including their bones). I'd be more convinced that protein increases bmd if I saw that the highest protein macro ratio led to increased bmd controlling for total dietary calories.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 20, 2013
at 04:52 PM

I thought this is what you were arguing since you said "Wasting is common in the geriatric, as is **protein deficiency**. **Protein intake correlates with BMD** as well. So I'd wager **a lot of it is diet**. D/K2/Calcium are all important, **but bone has a significant protein component**."

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on February 20, 2013
at 02:56 PM

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/3/866S.full I found this article interesting, it discusses the issue and hypothesizes that the role of protein on BMD might be modulated by calcium/d.

2
E253f8ac1d139bf4d0bfb44debd1db21

on February 17, 2013
at 01:47 AM

If one were to use the analogy of a building site:

Diet is like the building materials. Provided the rate of supply is relative to their rate of use then there is no delay in construction (or suboptimal physiological response). But increasing the rate of building materials will not increase rate of construction above what the workmen, their equipment and site access can provide.

Activity is like the workmen and equipment. Exercise activates genes that encode growth factors and enzymes that direct and facilitate growth and repair.

Site access is like genetic limitations and age. These are constraints that are very difficult or sometimes not possible to get around.

In other words both exercise and diet are important but overall there are genetic and age related limitations.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!