4

votes

Any Christian Paleos out there?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created December 16, 2010 at 6:53 AM

I am not interested in getting into a evolution vs creation argument here. What I am interested in is what the Bible and Jesus says about food, diet, and low carb eating. I think it says a lot and aligns very nicely to Paleo. What do you say?

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 03:28 PM

this argument is made in certain Jewish circles too, especially for celiacs who don't feel it is right to be bound my mitzvot (commandments) from later times that involve grain products.

Fb17c9dcae8790443cc5fb85f47d10a7

(118)

on December 31, 2010
at 11:00 PM

Great extracts - thank you for those. I do like the idea that abstaining from meat is evil. And I believe we should always give thanks for the food we are about to eat 0 even if it just a private and silent thanks to whatever gods/goddesses one believes in.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on December 21, 2010
at 01:46 AM

Buddhist are not even vegetarian, not necessarily ( monks are often vegetarian, but the follower does not need to be). Hinduism, on the other hand is strictly lacto-vegetarian.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on December 21, 2010
at 01:45 AM

Buddhist are not even vegetarian, not necessarily (some monks are vegetarian, but the follower does not need to be). Hinduism, on the other hand is strictly lacteo-vegetarian.

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 21, 2010
at 12:21 AM

I went to a Catholic school the other day to look into their grad programs. They had bagels, muffins, soda and candy to snack on. I go to a Buddhist temple to learn to meditate on Wed's, they have vegetables, nuts, seeds, rice and tofu to snack on. I agree that Eastern religion is still off when it comes to diet but at least in practice it seems much healthier than what is presented at church. (Im not religious so not bashing any religion).

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 21, 2010
at 12:18 AM

Im not religious but the Bible does NOT forbid eating pork. The Torah and the Koran do. Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? - Jesus

5f0158c23fcb5636e57b4ce097784da0

(1386)

on December 20, 2010
at 12:24 PM

could be my words. it's actually rather scary..

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 19, 2010
at 05:41 PM

I assume your rep points will come back once the suspension is over.

Bc2110309df459e4fd6c8dab58e364ab

(1096)

on December 19, 2010
at 02:52 AM

this entire thread is insane. most of you know that you're shooting fish in a barrel.

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 19, 2010
at 01:59 AM

If someone asked, just for example, 'Any wheat-eating paleos out there?' and I posted an answer detailing how wheat is neolithic and is harmful because of x, y, z, would that answer be inappropriate and marked for deletion as well? Is it only because this is about religion? I would like some clarification, because I really did not attempt to be rude or antagonistic, I sincerely tried to give a paleo-minded opinion on this topic and it shouldn't be given any special treatment because of its 'sensitive' subject nature.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 18, 2010
at 11:40 PM

(Abstaining until March because of nutrition school qualifying exams...wish me luck!)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 18, 2010
at 10:29 PM

I was being a bit mean, Jae wasn't, Scientology gets attacked disproportionately, I see your point as well. Personally, I wouldn't classify that as a back-handed non-apology, or as trolling and insulting other paleohackers. Are all my rep points really deleted now? But regardless of my view, it's your site and you keep things ordered pretty well. Keeping things smooth when it comes to religion and politics seems like a fine policy for a site owner. Have a great holiday, and I'll be back in March!

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 18, 2010
at 06:08 PM

@Kamal -- Nice back-handed non-apology. Since I have to treat you as a child, I have given you a time-out. See you in two days.

Ce0b5fd94b1034e96cf710b6f138c29d

(4089)

on December 18, 2010
at 05:26 PM

@Ben: arguably, the early bits of Genesis are all about the transition from foraging to farming; being cast out of Eden, being forced to live by the sweat of the brow, Eve's curse, Cain & Abel...

Ce0b5fd94b1034e96cf710b6f138c29d

(4089)

on December 18, 2010
at 05:23 PM

Simple, really. Bread was the staple food at the time and place of the Last Supper. If it had happened in Asia, the Eucharist would involve rice and rice wine. If it had happened in the late Paleolithic, perhaps it would have involved mammoth jerky and hallucinogenic mushroom juice or whatever other form of intoxicasnt was popular at the time. The important thing, I think, is the participation in the ritual. And a little bread won't kill you and we're not Vegans.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 18, 2010
at 06:23 AM

Jay and Melissa- I bought a book a while ago for a friend about "Foods of the Bible". Funny enough, we couldn't tie it to my paleo diet, because of the above reason. But the answer was probably deleted because some people identify very strongly with their religion, and analyzing the religion in order to shed a negative light on it is taken as a personal insult.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 18, 2010
at 06:11 AM

Point taken. I was being a bit mean, but I do think Jae was quite sincere and very analytical (not personally attacking paleohackers). If this thread was about Paleo as it relates to Scientology, I suspect no one would interpret these comments as being an asshole. But thus is life, and I see your point as well.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 18, 2010
at 03:12 AM

How did this answer the question of "Any Christian paleos out there?" It's a yes or no question.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on December 18, 2010
at 01:15 AM

@Jae -- Ironically, you are lowering the signal to noise ratio as well as being an asshole. While I tend to agree with you (!) -- bashing someone's faith is not scientific. Restrain yourself or I will suspend you. Goes for you as well Kamal. Don't try to hide behind the cloak of reason/rationale when it comes to insulting people.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 17, 2010
at 07:28 PM

Melissa, why did you delete my answer? Pointing out that Christianity centrally includes a creation story that begins thousands of years after the end of the paleolithic period has relevance, I strongly believe, for a question about the PALEO diet and Christianity. Based on your other comments, I didn't think you were religious, so why were you offended by the answer?

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:57 PM

Melissa, I did answer the question, and it wasn't just a pithy condemnation of Christianity as a 'dumb religion', it was relevant to the topic. I commented on how, from a paleolithic perspective, religious behavior is detrimental to the health of society, and I tried to tie in metaphors from themes common to this website. I'm sorry you feel my answer was so inappropriate, but I disagree in that it is no more inappropriate than the original question asked. If you want to delete my answer, then delete the original question from the site as well.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 17, 2010
at 04:00 PM

Either way, you didn't answer the question. The question wasn't an invitation to comment on how dumb religion is.

9f2b5def0bc7fd8ad615637d1ffeb9ec

on December 17, 2010
at 03:37 PM

If you were celiac, then it would hurt a lot.

5f0158c23fcb5636e57b4ce097784da0

(1386)

on December 17, 2010
at 12:34 PM

couldn't agree more with @jay's "It's time to stop being polite to religious people - their beliefs are ridiculous and dangerous". or in the words of pat condell, "you and your religion already get way more respect than you ever deserved" ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4dSiHqpULk please go make your own "paleo for christans" forum please. thank you very much.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:46 AM

@haig: Further, how do you reconcile _your own comments about religion_ with your quote: "He asked a question on 'Paleo'hacks.com, **a site that uses rational and empirical reasoning with a foundation in evolutionary theory and anthropology to assess diet**" What you offered was an insanely general interpretation of religious formation/evolution that has nothing to do with diet/exercise or the original question. You also simply attack their faith while failing to address why the question might be innapropriate for these forums. At the very least I think we might maintain civil discourse.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:40 AM

yikes. not sure why everyone is getting so mad. anyway, 1. I do think there is rooom on paleohacks for people who are looking for ways to modify the paleo diet/lifestyle to suit their personal needs (whether those be work, disease, religion or culture related). 2. @Jay/Haig: My point is not to defend religion, but rather to point out that just as advancing it on the boards seems inappropriate, it seems equally inappropriate to be rude, stereotype based on personal beliefs (religious or otherwise).

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:20 AM

I 100% agree with you, Haig. It's time to stop being polite to religious people -- their beliefs are ridiculous and dangerous. Logical debate doesn't work either, since if logic worked on religious people, there would be no religious people. Rather, we have to ridicule their obvious ridiculous beliefs because even idiots know when they are being mocked - and everybody's social brain responds to it, even without realizing it.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 17, 2010
at 05:06 AM

OK you folks are going to have to actually answer the question and not trash other people's religions. I fear and tremble for the day we see "Any Republican Paleos out there?"

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:05 AM

Are you serious? He asked a question on 'Paleo'hacks.com, a site that uses rational and empirical reasoning with a foundation in evolutionary theory and anthropology to assess diet, what Jesus and the bible says! And I'm the inappropriate one? If there really are that many paleohackers who view religion as sacred and use it to inform the advice they give on this site, then I think I'm at the wrong site.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 17, 2010
at 05:05 AM

This isn't even an attempt to answer the question. Move to the Cthulu thread plz.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:01 AM

@Kamal- I was simply making a point regarding rationalization. You might want to take a course in context ;-)

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 17, 2010
at 04:58 AM

@Haig- You didn't answer the question. Regardless of what others have written, you responded with an outright attack of what is sacred to many paleohackers. Over the line imo.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 17, 2010
at 04:53 AM

What. With all the words spilled here it's clear some people need to start an atheist support group :)

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 17, 2010
at 04:04 AM

Defend religion on another site. This is a site about paleolithic human behavior and its relation to modern health, and I gave my informed opinion about neolithic behavior such as organized religion from a paleo-minded perspective inline with the spirit of this website.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:46 AM

And I think Ben's comments are quite the bait for sarcasm. "One species changing into another species"?? If Ben thinks that's a ridiculous hypotheses, he may want to take some courses in genetics!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:44 AM

My answer was very sarcastic, but was not meant to be offensive. I just don't think religious beliefs should be too sacred to be criticized or even ridiculed. Instead, it might be best if they are open to frank discussion. Either there is a god or there isn't, nobody has special knowledge of which others can't understand. I'm very careful about ridiculing sensitive topics that exist in the real world (genocide, rape, et), but religion is a hypothesis (albeit a very deeply embedded and untested one).

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:36 AM

But yes, I agree with you: -no reason for bitterness -it definitely is not fair (and all too common) to lump all 'christians' together. First of all its an incredibly diverse faith, second of all this wouldn't fly with ANY OTHER religious group.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:35 AM

...it just seems hypocritical to deny the reason it works but appreciate the _fact_ that it works. That's all.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:34 AM

It just seems strange to me, sort of irrelevant, to have qualms only with the theoretical aspects of the diet. I'll stop tip-toeing around my opinion: I think the bible is a verifiably poor source for information about the material world/physical structure of our universe/general science. I do think it is a tremendously rich source of other, maybe more important, wisdom (for lack of a better word). The paleo diet works because it is scientifically sound. It's like arguing whether to use a light bulb because you don't believe in electricity. It works and its useful...

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:30 AM

I thought jesus came to 'reform the law, not to overturn it'. Anyway, guess that can go either way anyway. I think what a lot of people are referencing is the fact that a lot of the dietary recommendations of the bible come from the old testament. Anyway, I am far from a biblical scholar so I'll shut up. My point is that, I think questions of how to follow a paleo diet within self or religion imposed nutritional codes is perfectly valid and a great question to ask on this forum.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:27 AM

even if you took communion every day...I was raised catholic...that thing is tiny.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:27 AM

would a little communion wafer ONE day a week really even hurt?

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:25 AM

I really don't think this is an appropriate venue to attack christianity, and your response doesn't even sort of answer the original question. I think you should also realize that like us, Christianity _evolved_ out of those very religions your talking about and contains elements of them (especially catholocism and the orthodox sects). Anyway, I don't agree with all aspects (or I guess I should say interpretations of Christianity) but misinformed bashing of it is a) innapropriate and b)just so tired.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:21 AM

heres why the relevance is questionable. This website is called paleohacks, and is based around a forum whose sole function is the discussion of methods and tactics for implementing the paleo-diet/lifestyle (and its variations). I think you raise really good points and valid questions--all of which I think are fascinating and _worth asking_. The question is, are they relevant to the basic goal of the site? I think thats where it gets murky. Further, I'm still not convinced why there needs to be any conflict between paleo and christianity at all.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:17 AM

this is a really beautiful answer. I'll tip my hand, religion wise: I used to live in a zen monastery for a little bit of time (lay resident, not a monk). My teacher used to say: Science is the study of how things work, Religion is the study of _what things are_ (i.e. fundamentally). I think this is a very useful distinction.

6fa48935d439390e223b9a053a62c981

(1676)

on December 17, 2010
at 02:40 AM

People are entitled to their beliefs, Kamal and Jay, even if you don't understand, agree, or approve. Your arrogance and condescension are offensive. And this answer is clearly not intended to elucidate or contribute, but only to belittle and denigrate.

6fa48935d439390e223b9a053a62c981

(1676)

on December 17, 2010
at 02:38 AM

People are entitled to their beliefs, Kamal and Jay, even if you don't understand, agree, or approve. Your arrogance and condescension are offensive. And this answer is clearly not intended elucidate or contribute, but only to belittle and denigrate.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 17, 2010
at 01:44 AM

+1! Well said, Melissa!

Fab01b4dbedb2252688eb552d0071306

(216)

on December 17, 2010
at 01:14 AM

I feel like you can just cherry pick quotes to fit whatever argument you see fit...its been done numerous times with the bible. Don't boil a kid in its mother's milk is interpreted historically by jews to mean not to mix dairy and meat. I find this whole discussion of reconciling paleo with christianity a bit silly as paleo is based on evolutionary science.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:19 PM

gilliebean, I appear to have won the war of attrition. =/ For that, I apologize. To me, that means that I have done a poor job at arguing my position (considering how verbose I have been).

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:07 PM

That's tongue in cheek... but you can't resort to miracles, and if you do, that's the definition of pseudoscience.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:07 PM

That's tongue in cheek... but you resort to miracles, and if you do, that's the definition of pseudoscience.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:05 PM

I'm gonna send up an LOL and call it a night. ;P

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:05 PM

@gilliebean: you are absolutely right. There is plenty of published "scientific" research that claims to back up the low-fat, low-cholesterol craziness of the last 40 years. **There is a fine line between pseudoscience and bad science. Let's help people avoid both on PaleoHacks** (and in general) -- that is what I'm asking.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:00 PM

Right. So, Christian Paleos should take this as a sign that if their faith in God is strong, then they will be healthy even if they eat SAD. In fact, that's the ultimate test of faith, right? My conclusion: Christians shouldn't eat Paleo at all, unless they are weak of faith.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 10:57 PM

So perhaps I have an axe to grind, but if my mother is any influence, it's in a different direction than most people would probably expect.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 10:56 PM

Lol Melissa maybe so. But my mother and I see eye to eye on almost everything regarding religion. She rails against religious hypocrisy and sloppy, misinformed exegesis with as much vehemence as I do. The misinterpretation of scripture pisses her off even more, because, well, she reads the texts in their original languages and studies them, and people like Kevin Brown take bad translations and (mis)interpret them however they please.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 10:54 PM

Lol Melissa maybe so. I don't think that is true in my case. My mother works to make the world a better place within her religious communities; I... well, I dunno what I do, but I definitely do it outside of communities that traditionally call themselves religious. My axe to grind is NOT against religion. It's against sloppy thinking, particularly in people who AGREE with my conclusions -- but with poor arguments. Taleb and his intellectual lineage are my models.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 16, 2010
at 10:40 PM

"And according to my mother, who is a biblical scholar, scripture also supports multiculturalism, diversity, and equality." Haha, that explains things. People whose parents are biblical scholars/priests/pastors always have the biggest axes to grind.

5f0158c23fcb5636e57b4ce097784da0

(1386)

on December 16, 2010
at 10:37 PM

@Jae thanks for your comments. as soon as paleohacks becomes a playground for religious nutcases i'll be outta here.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 16, 2010
at 10:36 PM

i.e. by evaluating weight gain/loss, bio-marker changes, measurable performance changes (ammt. of weight lifted, rep max, etc.) I'm not defending Paleo to the death, but it does work well for me. I don't think the fact that there aren't yet a lot of studies to support paleo casts the same doubt on it that the materialistic (i.e. regarding the physical world) claims of christianity do (and should) endure.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 16, 2010
at 10:33 PM

yea but it is making claims that are verifiable. we are getting into a whole other realm of discussion here, but christianity like all religions makes metaphysical/mystical/spiritual claims (i.e. those that do not fall within the empirical spectrum, cannot be proven or disproven within an empirical system). It ALSO makes materialistic claims about world history (the fall, the flood, etc.) which can and ought to be evaluated in an empirical method. Obviously, from a scientific perspective many of these claims are patently false. ANYWAY one can verify Paleo claims on a personal basis.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 16, 2010
at 10:28 PM

Well, a lot of paleo stuff has not been peer-reviewed. In fact, a lot of scientists scoff at paleo for being unscientific.

1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:52 PM

I think this was a reasonable question, but sadly now it's turned into a different debate which isn't valid here

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:48 PM

So can science (support anything I want it to support), if it's properly funded. ;)

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:46 PM

Oops, I misread your comment and mis-typed mine. I mean scripture supports a high-fat, low-carb diet. Still doesn't change the fact that it supports any damn thing you want it to support, if you go hunting for confirmation.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:42 PM

Kevin Brown mentions that this section of Daniel is a reference to the idea that even though the young men were eating what everybody knew to be the less nutritionally dense diet, they were still sustained by God. It's supposed to be a miracle. ;)

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:42 PM

I completely agree with you that scripture supports a high-carb, low-fat diet. But it also supports slavery and the subordination of women. And according to my mother, who is a biblical scholar, scripture also supports multiculturalism, diversity, and equality. My point is that these are all interpretations of scripture that guide people's lives for better or for worse. (IMO, my mom's work makes the world a better place.) **It's still not science.** Looking to scripture for dietary advice is simply pseudoscience, unless you want to look at the history of dietary practices and their effects.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:37 PM

And here's verse 16: "So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead." So in Daniel, wine is bad and water is good. Oh, noes! This contradicts Brown's interpretation of 1 Timothy 5:23 and Gen 18 as teaching us that too much water = bad, and that fermented beverages are healthier.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:31 PM

Why not serve up a slice of Daniel 1:12-15? “Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:28 PM

He interprets the "don't boil a kid in its mother's milk" passage as an injunction against pasteurization? "**God personally drank Raw Milk,** calls it the blessing of God, and warns against boiling Milk (pasteurization). Exactly what the Liberation Diet recommends. **There sure seems to be a lot of amazing coincidences with the Bible and the Liberation Diet!**" Um, yeah, they're there if you LOOK for them and conveniently ignore other passages. Hey, there are a lot of amazing coincidences with the Bible and slave-owners' mentalities! Woohoo!

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:26 PM

All that said, I understand your concerns about entertaining questions that don’t help us all get to the heart of why paleo/primal is the optimal way of feeding ourselves. I’ll leave it to Melissa and Patrick to decide what to do with this question.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:26 PM

I see no problem with offering an answer to that question, if there is an answer to be had. And if there’s no answer, or if there’s an answer that says, “Scripture supports a high-carb, low-fat diet!” Then I think it’s fair for that answer to be provided here (and voted down, potentially). But just like I ignore the answer to the question about “Quality Bacon Sources in San Diego” because I don’t live there, people who aren’t looking for scriptural references to food and diet can ignore the answers to this question. (more)

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:26 PM

Jae, thank you. I appreciate the distinction between religion and pseudoscience and I appreciate that you've highlighted it here. Also, I love this comment of yours "if you are going to ignore the allegedly anti-Paleo dietary advice in the Bible, then you also need to ignore the allegedly pro-Paleo dietary advice." And quite honestly, I have no good counter-argument for you there. The question to me is simply, "What *is* the pro-Paleo dietary advice that people have found in the bible?" (more)

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:26 PM

Can't wait! Let me have it! ;D

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:24 PM

gilliebean, I usually love your posts but I can't let this one slide. There is a TON of junk in the article you quoted. Some of his interpretations really stretch the bounds of credulity. For example:

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:18 PM

I forgot a fourth option (what do you do if your scripture contradicts Paleo science?): just look for quotes in your scripture that seem to confirm Paleo science! Except now you're playing the confirmation bias game, and thus failing to be a good critical thinker.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:18 PM

No prob Jae...I always like reading clear and passionate arguments.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:10 PM

Kamal, thanks for both of your comments above.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 08:23 PM

By the way Andrew, my sister is a naturopath who graduated from Bastyr (I looked at your profile). She mentioned several times that there's a lot of cool stuff mixed with a lot of pseudoscience there. I wonder if they have a class on spirituality and nutrition?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 08:15 PM

Don't calm down. Polk holes, examine logic, test hypotheses.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:49 PM

Jay, you are clearly out of line when you suggest that all Christians "don't believe in evolution" or believe in talking snakes and the like. No religion or culture is monolithic. It's all to easy to ridicule people when you lump them into labels based on their most ridiculous members. Hell, some Paleos believe that chicken breast and canola oil are great but short ribs and sweet potatoes are bad. Please don't resort to strawman arguments. We don't need them.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:33 PM

Calm down, grasshopper.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:02 PM

Jay- you cannot win arguments with Christian people. You only have logic and science, whereas they have a plethora of irrational but established tools at their disposal. That being said, I will upvote your answer as a sign of solidarity.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:48 PM

Jae, I'm loving this rant. Please keep going! If we cannot safely rant against "sacred" pseudoscience, then we have lost the war against idiocy.

3f61ba25dff05b513c7769a22408169a

on December 16, 2010
at 06:37 PM

Second that as a Catholic, there is gluten free host but you do need to ask in advance and know who, Priest or Eucharistic minister, will have it available. As for being troubled by the presence of bread, you always have to remember the historical audience. This was a blood sacrifice that was understood by the Jewish audience, how would that audience have reacted if the shared item had been meat. As it was explained to me, the Bible was written in certain places and times for a level of understanding of the universe that was present. Sometimes parables, allegories, types are necessary.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:09 PM

@Jay- What do you believe that is so rational? Creation by accident? Matter just existing with no beginning or end? One species changing into another species? A random explosion ultimately being responsible for all life? Rationality fail. Anyway, I'm done with this. This discussion with you became pointless, fast. Take care. See you around the forum.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:06 PM

@Ben, you believe in talking snakes, virgin pregnancy, god's son, who is also god somehow, rising from the dead, a death which was a sacrifice (how exactly is it a sacrifice if he was a god?) which gave mankind a way to avoid being tortured by the god-dad for eternity, which apparently happens to all people born before jebus or who had parents who taught them equally silly myths from the neighboring bronze age tribes -- and you are lecturing me about rationality!

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:05 PM

@Ben, you believe in talking snakes, virgin pregnancy, god's son, who is also god somehow, rising from the dead, a death which was a sacrifice (how exactly is it a sacrifice if he was a god?) which gave mankind kind a way to avoid being tortured by the god-dad for eternity, which apparently happens to all people born before jebus or who had parents who taught them equally silly myths from the neighboring bronze age tribes -- and you are lecturing me about rationality!

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:02 PM

@Ben, you believe in talking snakes, virgin pregnancy, god's son, who is also god somehow, rising from the dead, a death which was a sacrifice (how exactly given he was god) which gave mankind kind a way to avoid being tortured by the god-dad for eternity, which apparently happens to all people born before jebus or who had parents who taught them equally silly myths from the neighboring bronze age tribes -- and you are lecturing me about rationality! LOL

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:48 PM

@Jay- You can reconcile science with Christianity without destroying the idea of Creationism, or Jesus. Your generalizations, and lack of knowledge in Christianity (not to mention your lack of patience) discount your ability to have any sort of rational discussion.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:39 PM

@Ben, nobody speaks for me but me. Fine by me if you arbitrarily jettison parts of Christianity (like the creation myths), but you have no principled reason for picking those parts and not other parts (jesus myth). Whatever floats your boat, dude. I'd appreciate if so-called Christians stopped voting their bronze-age values so our political dialogue could start to be rationale. Grow some balls and realize that everything your parents told you when you were little isn't true.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:37 PM

And with that, I've failed at self restraint. Two clarifications (although probably too little, too late): **1.** I have no problem with religion per se, but I do have a huge problem with pseudoscience. Unlike the New Atheists, I think one can be religious without being pseudoscientific and vice versa. (I would not call myself an atheist, FWIW.) **2.** I have a problem with this question because it strikes me not as religious, but as pseudoscience.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:22 PM

@Jay- My religion? As in.....Christianity? Because there is a church that can speak for all Christians? Who speaks for you?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:22 PM

Maybe I am being unfair in asking good Christian Paleos to look at their dietary choices with a skeptical empiricist's eyes. But for me, the difference between this forum and say, the vegan forum, is that we ask ourselves tough questions. Maybe leptin's more important than insulin. Maybe vitamin D is not a cure-all. Maybe lots of fish oil is not a good thing. And the reason we ask ourselves these questions is because we understand the scientific method. **So to look to a holy book for dietary guidance strikes me as the kind of pseudoscientific bullshit that should be left off of this forum.**

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:17 PM

But I may have misspoken. The first option (ignoring the allegedly contradictory passages) may not be intellectually dishonest for a "good Christian Paleo." And the reason is that, if I were a good Christian Paleo, I would find it absurd to look to the Bible for dietary advice (rather than, say, spiritual guidance). And if you are going to ignore the allegedly anti-Paleo dietary advice in the Bible, then you also need to ignore the allegedly pro-Paleo dietary advice.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:11 PM

Now what is a good Christian Paleo to do if there are passages in the Bible that contradict our best Paleo thinking? Well, I dunno. Ignore the passages? Explain them away ("oh, that passage on Ezekiel bread is SO misunderstood")? Or change their way of eating based on what the Bible says? The first option is intellectually dishonest. The second option is fraught with confirmation bias. And the third is just absurd from a skeptical empiricist's point of view.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:06 PM

So, here's my question: what would you do, as a good Paleo critical thinker, if Stephan Guyenet wrote up a blog post tomorrow about a monumental study that showed that drinking 3 liters/day of soymilk (fortified with gluten and omega-6!) definitively cured cancer, AIDS, premature ejaculation, acne, and social awkwardness? And then the study was replicated under tight controls? Well, I dunno about you, but I would have to do some serious rethinking about my current positions on gluten and soy and omega-6. (continued...)

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:00 PM

Now, my most charitable formulation of OP's question is: "I eat Paleo. I also believe in the Bible. Any contradictions there?" Now here's what bugs me. Paleos and vegetarians and vegans and slaveowners and abolitionists and sexists and feminists and capitalists and communists have all claimed to find evidence for their worldviews in the Bible. Now, you can argue till the cows come home about how the communaziracist Ezekiel bread lovers have misinterpreted key words/passages, or taken them out of context, to fit their own views. (continued...)

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:58 PM

Well, I didn't name it Paleo. They people that came up with it call it Paleo. I just like how it works. I didn't find out about it by researching or caring what my ancestors ate. My trainer recommended it and it worked.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:55 PM

Sherpamelissa, then why do you call it paleo?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:50 PM

@gilliebean: that question is basically "how do I deal with lifestyle logistics?" That is a valid question, because it's not always easy to fit Paleo in with our families and our busy lifestyles, etc. Advice on that kind of question is appreciated and welcome. (continued...)

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:32 PM

I personally do not eat Paleo because "I believe that eating the foods that were available to humans for the millions of years during which humans evolved is more likely to lead to good health than eating the foods that humans produced in the last 10,000 years" I eat Paleo because I believe the science behind the digestion issues with insulin and how they affect my body. And it makes me feel better and look better.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:27 PM

It's not my fault that your religion makes verifiably false claims

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:23 PM

It's not my fault that your religion makes some verifiably false claims.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:17 PM

I am very non-religious and still found this discussion really interesting and thought provoking.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:17 PM

Hey Jay! Thanks for the generlization that all Christians don't believe the paleolithic period existed. I love it when someone tells others what they believe "(In fact, you don't believe in the first half of the neolithic period either)". Not to mention that the "whole point of eating paleo" is to be healthy and to live optimally with this body you either believe evolved or was created.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:09 PM

I think that in the same way that the question, "How do I explain paleo to my family who doesn't get it?" is relevant here, this question is relevant.

F3951b3141a6ab7036b33e70b4bfad71

(269)

on December 16, 2010
at 03:47 PM

My Catholic Church offers a gluten free host...just ask as it is not advertised very well.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on December 16, 2010
at 03:26 PM

What do they do for celiacs? Is there a gluten-free choice? Oooh, just found this link: http://foodallergies.about.com/od/wheatallergies/f/communionwheat.htm

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 03:13 PM

I am having a hard time restraining myself from leaving a comment that could result in a flame war. But I think this question is NOT appropriate for this forum.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 02:34 PM

+1 to Stephen-Aegis Agriculture is a punishment. Man was forced to farm as a result of the fall.

1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on December 16, 2010
at 02:09 PM

I think I'm going to print your answer off, laminate it and put it on my wall. Legendary.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on December 16, 2010
at 01:57 PM

Gilliebean, I understand what you mean, but palestinians around the year zero were most certainly not paleo. They probably handled their food much more like WAPF followers would do, which is better than contemporary. That is what I meant...

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 01:50 PM

Pieter, this question is obviously intended for those Christians that follow the paleo diet (not the WAPF diet) and as such is appropriate in this forum.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 01:49 PM

This question is obviously intended for Christians who follow the paleo diet (not the WAPF diet) and as such is appropriate in this forum.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on December 16, 2010
at 12:27 PM

Ezekiel bread is supposed to be made with DUNG as a PUNISHMENT, yes, bread is punishment even in the bible.

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:07 AM

Perhaps this question would be better for an audience of followers of traditional diets like WAPF?

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27 Answers

16
A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 02:03 PM

UPDATE: Those interested should go read Chris Masterjohn's post about this over at The Daily Lipid.

Kevin Brown over at Liberation Wellness provides an examination of the bible through the lens of food and health in this post. Here's a few key quotes:

[In] Gen 9:2-3,

???And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth [upon] the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.???

God is now commanding all animals shall be food for man... The death and roasting of an animal should always remind us of the judgment of God, and our need of a Savior. Every time we eat meat therefore, it should remind us of our need of Christ.

[Then in] Gen 18:1,

???And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre...???

We then continue in verse 7 and 8,

???And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave [it] unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set [it] before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.???

God gives us a menu of what He eats personally so there is no mistaking it. He is eating butter (saturated animal fat), milk (raw, full animal fat, not refrigerated), and the calf. (Red meat, which is saturated animal fat).

As we read in Acts 10:11-14,

???And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth??? Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air, and there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean. And the voice [spake] unto him again the second time, what God hath cleansed, [that] call not thou common. This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.???

God repeats His message in the New Testament, telling Peter three times so there can be no mistake. Then God records it twice in the Bible. We have been therefore, divinely assured it is in accordance with God???s will to eat beef or pork, tuna or shark, insects or reptiles, birds of the air.

And finally, a comment on vegetarianism:

1 Tim 4:1-4,

???Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving, for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.???

God states, in no uncertain terms, those who preach the abstaining of meats are preaching the doctrines of devils, speaking lies and hypocrisy.

He offers a recap at the end of the post. Here's some highlights:

  • Once Adam sinned, eating meat became the standard, as the death of animals??? points to our need for Christ

  • God uses Butter, Raw Milk, and Red Meat in the Bible and eats them personally to teach us that they are good, acceptable and healthy

  • Clean and Unclean dietary laws know as the ceremonial laws were given to the Children of Israel only for spiritual teaching, but the New Testament ushered in a new era of the gospel and the unclean laws were done away by God most definitely

  • All food is to be made clean by thanksgiving to God, each time we eat, we remember Him who faithfully feeds us

  • The removal of some of the key foods in the Bible, Butter, Raw Milk, Salt, Red Meat etc. [causes] physical damage to humanity...

Hope this helps!

P.S. David over at Health for Life wrote a piece on wheat and the bible that may be of interest as well.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:19 PM

gilliebean, I appear to have won the war of attrition. =/ For that, I apologize. To me, that means that I have done a poor job at arguing my position (considering how verbose I have been).

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:24 PM

gilliebean, I usually love your posts but I can't let this one slide. There is a TON of junk in the article you quoted. Some of his interpretations really stretch the bounds of credulity. For example:

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:07 PM

That's tongue in cheek... but you resort to miracles, and if you do, that's the definition of pseudoscience.

Fab01b4dbedb2252688eb552d0071306

(216)

on December 17, 2010
at 01:14 AM

I feel like you can just cherry pick quotes to fit whatever argument you see fit...its been done numerous times with the bible. Don't boil a kid in its mother's milk is interpreted historically by jews to mean not to mix dairy and meat. I find this whole discussion of reconciling paleo with christianity a bit silly as paleo is based on evolutionary science.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:42 PM

Kevin Brown mentions that this section of Daniel is a reference to the idea that even though the young men were eating what everybody knew to be the less nutritionally dense diet, they were still sustained by God. It's supposed to be a miracle. ;)

1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on December 16, 2010
at 02:09 PM

I think I'm going to print your answer off, laminate it and put it on my wall. Legendary.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:26 PM

Can't wait! Let me have it! ;D

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:00 PM

Right. So, Christian Paleos should take this as a sign that if their faith in God is strong, then they will be healthy even if they eat SAD. In fact, that's the ultimate test of faith, right? My conclusion: Christians shouldn't eat Paleo at all, unless they are weak of faith.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:31 PM

Why not serve up a slice of Daniel 1:12-15? “Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:05 PM

I'm gonna send up an LOL and call it a night. ;P

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:37 PM

And here's verse 16: "So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead." So in Daniel, wine is bad and water is good. Oh, noes! This contradicts Brown's interpretation of 1 Timothy 5:23 and Gen 18 as teaching us that too much water = bad, and that fermented beverages are healthier.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 09:28 PM

He interprets the "don't boil a kid in its mother's milk" passage as an injunction against pasteurization? "**God personally drank Raw Milk,** calls it the blessing of God, and warns against boiling Milk (pasteurization). Exactly what the Liberation Diet recommends. **There sure seems to be a lot of amazing coincidences with the Bible and the Liberation Diet!**" Um, yeah, they're there if you LOOK for them and conveniently ignore other passages. Hey, there are a lot of amazing coincidences with the Bible and slave-owners' mentalities! Woohoo!

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:07 PM

That's tongue in cheek... but you can't resort to miracles, and if you do, that's the definition of pseudoscience.

Fb17c9dcae8790443cc5fb85f47d10a7

(118)

on December 31, 2010
at 11:00 PM

Great extracts - thank you for those. I do like the idea that abstaining from meat is evil. And I believe we should always give thanks for the food we are about to eat 0 even if it just a private and silent thanks to whatever gods/goddesses one believes in.

11
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 16, 2010
at 10:38 PM

Good gracious people. Let's not be bitter! This IS relevant. A lot of Christian sects have fasting protocols, for example, that make following a paleo protocol difficult. And even those of us that aren't religious are likely to have family members who follow a religion and it's nice to be able to talk to them about this. Many clergy are ignorant of nutrition and it's often not helpful to consult them. For example, a priest told my aunt that the paleo diet is a morally decadent diet....way to miss the point.

What I told my grandparents is that the type of wheat and wheat products that are available today are completely different than what is mentioned in the Bible. The bread of Jesus was very coarse, fairly flat, and low in gluten.

The problem is that the Bible is pretty open to interpretation, so you can pretty much use it to support any dietary philosophy....

But I have to correct some of the bitterness here. In quoting Mosaic law to prove how ridiculous the Bible is, you are forgetting that Christianity teaches that Jesus fulfilled that law and you don't have to follow it anymore.

"But, Christians don't believe in evolution... or the paleolithic period... (In fact, they don't believe in the first half of the neolithic period either)."

Um, some Christians do. Not all Christians are literalists.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:34 AM

It just seems strange to me, sort of irrelevant, to have qualms only with the theoretical aspects of the diet. I'll stop tip-toeing around my opinion: I think the bible is a verifiably poor source for information about the material world/physical structure of our universe/general science. I do think it is a tremendously rich source of other, maybe more important, wisdom (for lack of a better word). The paleo diet works because it is scientifically sound. It's like arguing whether to use a light bulb because you don't believe in electricity. It works and its useful...

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:30 AM

I thought jesus came to 'reform the law, not to overturn it'. Anyway, guess that can go either way anyway. I think what a lot of people are referencing is the fact that a lot of the dietary recommendations of the bible come from the old testament. Anyway, I am far from a biblical scholar so I'll shut up. My point is that, I think questions of how to follow a paleo diet within self or religion imposed nutritional codes is perfectly valid and a great question to ask on this forum.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 17, 2010
at 01:44 AM

+1! Well said, Melissa!

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:35 AM

...it just seems hypocritical to deny the reason it works but appreciate the _fact_ that it works. That's all.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:36 AM

But yes, I agree with you: -no reason for bitterness -it definitely is not fair (and all too common) to lump all 'christians' together. First of all its an incredibly diverse faith, second of all this wouldn't fly with ANY OTHER religious group.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 17, 2010
at 04:53 AM

What. With all the words spilled here it's clear some people need to start an atheist support group :)

7
Af66712088dcb124b4c44a2a82f319fd

on December 16, 2010
at 05:59 PM

I'm a Christian and I eat Paleo. My body is a temple afterall.

6
23814fb403606c0424bf90770dd5c0f5

on December 16, 2010
at 12:04 PM

As a fellow believer, I have encountered this personal soul searching myself. What I discovered was basically, as believers and followers of Christ, we can eat anything. Not meaning that we should, but our options are many. Primal type diets are based upon science and are therefore documented and proven. This style of eating actually does agree with biblical ideology once you look beyond the "usual" bible passages. Furthermore, if you read this site, and other similar sites, personal testimonies from others, irregardless of their spiritual beliefs, support this WOE as most beneficial. Remember that the foods we have today were not the same as the foods that were found or raised during biblical times. Genetic modifications and agricultural changes have morphed them into something else. Don't get hung up on this "Ezekiel Bread" mentality. That whole passage has been misinterpreted. (For a good perspective on that read http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/ezekiel-said-what.html). Read the Bible and determine what to do yourself. My recommendation is to start with the Book of Acts and go through Paul's letters to the churches. Pray for guidance and most importantly, listen. Just my opinion. Blessings, Mike

4
Cfccbcf3450ac4919311ded8ef162d49

(2312)

on December 17, 2010
at 04:37 AM

I don't mix nutrition with religion

4
1c4ada15ca0635582c77dbd9b1317dbf

(2614)

on December 16, 2010
at 12:55 PM

I'm a Christian. Whilst I try and have my faith flow through all areas of my life, I just don't see my diet selection as that big a deal in that regard. Fasting is something relevant to both Christianity and paleo though - so a nice fit.

3
Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

on December 17, 2010
at 03:09 AM

There is nothing in the Bible that would oppose eating a Paleo Diet. Unlike some Eastern religions (in particular, Hinduism) the Bible is full of examples showing that all types of food can be eaten. The only particular dietary restrictions applies to certain days of the year, in which fasting may be prescribed. Nevertheless choosing a paleo diet should be based on a personal decision that you made, and the scientific evidence that supports it.

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 21, 2010
at 12:21 AM

I went to a Catholic school the other day to look into their grad programs. They had bagels, muffins, soda and candy to snack on. I go to a Buddhist temple to learn to meditate on Wed's, they have vegetables, nuts, seeds, rice and tofu to snack on. I agree that Eastern religion is still off when it comes to diet but at least in practice it seems much healthier than what is presented at church. (Im not religious so not bashing any religion).

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on December 21, 2010
at 01:46 AM

Buddhist are not even vegetarian, not necessarily ( monks are often vegetarian, but the follower does not need to be). Hinduism, on the other hand is strictly lacto-vegetarian.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on December 21, 2010
at 01:45 AM

Buddhist are not even vegetarian, not necessarily (some monks are vegetarian, but the follower does not need to be). Hinduism, on the other hand is strictly lacteo-vegetarian.

3
D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:17 PM

Yes, I am. However, I hold my faith as dealing with existential realities. It and science are not by any means enemies. They ask different questions and are interested in different aspects of reality and experience. "What does it mean to be a person who is alive and in a predicament?" is different from "What are the mechanism that allow life to happen?" They can inform each other but only to a point.

Does paleolithic nutrition align with Christian spirituality? I really don't think that they inform each other much either way. As the paleo diet can help people feel better and experience reality in a more full, worthwhile manner, I can probably use it as a tool to fulfill some of the ethical 'duties' of a Christian. But that connection isn't especially captivating to me. True, yes, but not captivating. Oh and the pesky do I believe in evolution question? I don't care either way. I find it to be a beautiful, helpful and compelling heuristic.

The work of Walker Percy does a very beautiful job exploring the distinction between science and post-modern spirituality especially in his essay "A novel about the end of the world." Peter Rollins does some great philosophical work setting up Christianity in its proper philosophical frame work as a deconstructive anti-religion. GK Chesterton also does a nice job setup the non-sense framework of Christianity in A Generous Orthodoxy. The chapter "The Ethics of Elfland" is deserving of close attention.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:17 AM

this is a really beautiful answer. I'll tip my hand, religion wise: I used to live in a zen monastery for a little bit of time (lay resident, not a monk). My teacher used to say: Science is the study of how things work, Religion is the study of _what things are_ (i.e. fundamentally). I think this is a very useful distinction.

3
61b801de5dc345b557cd4623d4a4f26b

(2682)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:27 PM

I'm a Christian and currently switching over to a Paleo way of eating. I am eating this way b/c it makes sense for me. I don't scrutinize every line in the Bible and try to glean the meaning I want from it. I think we were all given brains for a reason and the Bible is just a guide. A reference book, if you will. Read it, study it, and then remember that the world exists outside the Bible.

I don't think that what the Bible tells us indicates what our diets should be anymore than what clothing we should wear or what kind of car we should drive. The message I get from it is probably different from the message that you (or any other person) get from it.

The point is, if you are a Christian with a solid foundation of belief, your beliefs will differ from nearly every other Christian you meet b/c the Bible isn't the end-all, say-all. That's what your personal relationship with God is all about.

For me, my foundation of belief includes taking care of myself and being as healthy as I can be. That happens to include following a Paleo way of eating.

2
3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:14 AM

Christianity, along with all other organized religions, is as much a neolithic poison as high-fructose corn syrup. It is a super stimulant, just like candy bars, that offers hyper-concentrated amounts of what once was tolerable in small doses. Organized religion, in my opinion, is one of the most nefarious neolithic corruptions of human society, owing its far reaching influence mainly to centralized structures that would not be possible without the practice of agriculture.

If there has to be a religion thread on paleohacks, I would have hoped it would be more about the relevant time period (ie paleolithic!). For instance, how our paleolithic ancestors practiced rituals to honor their food after a kill, or cleansing rituals, or just how paleolithic peoples communed with nature in their own 'spiritual' traditions. That line of questioning, maybe, could give us some inspiration for a modern, paleo-inspired, 'spiritual' diet, just like we look to them for inspiration on how to eat and exercise.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:46 AM

@haig: Further, how do you reconcile _your own comments about religion_ with your quote: "He asked a question on 'Paleo'hacks.com, **a site that uses rational and empirical reasoning with a foundation in evolutionary theory and anthropology to assess diet**" What you offered was an insanely general interpretation of religious formation/evolution that has nothing to do with diet/exercise or the original question. You also simply attack their faith while failing to address why the question might be innapropriate for these forums. At the very least I think we might maintain civil discourse.

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:05 AM

Are you serious? He asked a question on 'Paleo'hacks.com, a site that uses rational and empirical reasoning with a foundation in evolutionary theory and anthropology to assess diet, what Jesus and the bible says! And I'm the inappropriate one? If there really are that many paleohackers who view religion as sacred and use it to inform the advice they give on this site, then I think I'm at the wrong site.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 17, 2010
at 04:58 AM

@Haig- You didn't answer the question. Regardless of what others have written, you responded with an outright attack of what is sacred to many paleohackers. Over the line imo.

5f0158c23fcb5636e57b4ce097784da0

(1386)

on December 17, 2010
at 12:34 PM

couldn't agree more with @jay's "It's time to stop being polite to religious people - their beliefs are ridiculous and dangerous". or in the words of pat condell, "you and your religion already get way more respect than you ever deserved" ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4dSiHqpULk please go make your own "paleo for christans" forum please. thank you very much.

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 17, 2010
at 04:04 AM

Defend religion on another site. This is a site about paleolithic human behavior and its relation to modern health, and I gave my informed opinion about neolithic behavior such as organized religion from a paleo-minded perspective inline with the spirit of this website.

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:57 PM

Melissa, I did answer the question, and it wasn't just a pithy condemnation of Christianity as a 'dumb religion', it was relevant to the topic. I commented on how, from a paleolithic perspective, religious behavior is detrimental to the health of society, and I tried to tie in metaphors from themes common to this website. I'm sorry you feel my answer was so inappropriate, but I disagree in that it is no more inappropriate than the original question asked. If you want to delete my answer, then delete the original question from the site as well.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 17, 2010
at 04:00 PM

Either way, you didn't answer the question. The question wasn't an invitation to comment on how dumb religion is.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 17, 2010
at 05:05 AM

This isn't even an attempt to answer the question. Move to the Cthulu thread plz.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:25 AM

I really don't think this is an appropriate venue to attack christianity, and your response doesn't even sort of answer the original question. I think you should also realize that like us, Christianity _evolved_ out of those very religions your talking about and contains elements of them (especially catholocism and the orthodox sects). Anyway, I don't agree with all aspects (or I guess I should say interpretations of Christianity) but misinformed bashing of it is a) innapropriate and b)just so tired.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:40 AM

yikes. not sure why everyone is getting so mad. anyway, 1. I do think there is rooom on paleohacks for people who are looking for ways to modify the paleo diet/lifestyle to suit their personal needs (whether those be work, disease, religion or culture related). 2. @Jay/Haig: My point is not to defend religion, but rather to point out that just as advancing it on the boards seems inappropriate, it seems equally inappropriate to be rude, stereotype based on personal beliefs (religious or otherwise).

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 18, 2010
at 03:12 AM

How did this answer the question of "Any Christian paleos out there?" It's a yes or no question.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:20 AM

I 100% agree with you, Haig. It's time to stop being polite to religious people -- their beliefs are ridiculous and dangerous. Logical debate doesn't work either, since if logic worked on religious people, there would be no religious people. Rather, we have to ridicule their obvious ridiculous beliefs because even idiots know when they are being mocked - and everybody's social brain responds to it, even without realizing it.

3020fb359dfbedaf90f1611b036d3432

(1138)

on December 19, 2010
at 01:59 AM

If someone asked, just for example, 'Any wheat-eating paleos out there?' and I posted an answer detailing how wheat is neolithic and is harmful because of x, y, z, would that answer be inappropriate and marked for deletion as well? Is it only because this is about religion? I would like some clarification, because I really did not attempt to be rude or antagonistic, I sincerely tried to give a paleo-minded opinion on this topic and it shouldn't be given any special treatment because of its 'sensitive' subject nature.

2
Fe198e0c02edd407cdf8c83c0fceaea1

(753)

on December 17, 2010
at 12:02 AM

How curious, some would dismiss this thread as irrelevant. "Religion" is not some kind of feeble attempt at a type of science. It is neither opposed to nor in cahoots with science. Science seeks knowledge, understanding, completeness, and all the things that flow from them. Religion seeks, well, it's hard for me to even say what it seeks. I think we've moved beyond the Humean conception of religion as an incorrect projection of the human psyche onto an inexplicable natural order. I talk to a lot of people who hold that view, I wrestled with it for a time in my mind. Science works with matter. Religion works with the spirit. I don't know how else to say that without sounding even to myself, a bit flighty. The concept of spirit is amorphous and cheesy and it's easy to deny it because it cannot be verified, but in the end it's just one of those words that you have to use because it's the only one that works to describe something so amorphous and mysterious. If someone touts reasoning, logic, and evaluation of claims as the only way to reach correct knowledge and understanding...You are at liberty to operate in that mental realm. I do sometimes. As little as possible. There are other ways to think. Some people here need to have their minds blown, they are STUCK IN A BOX.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:21 AM

heres why the relevance is questionable. This website is called paleohacks, and is based around a forum whose sole function is the discussion of methods and tactics for implementing the paleo-diet/lifestyle (and its variations). I think you raise really good points and valid questions--all of which I think are fascinating and _worth asking_. The question is, are they relevant to the basic goal of the site? I think thats where it gets murky. Further, I'm still not convinced why there needs to be any conflict between paleo and christianity at all.

2
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on December 16, 2010
at 04:54 PM

I think the Bible is full of many ideas, restrictions, and commands.

Some of which support eating a certain way, and others which could be interpreted to forbid eating the same way.

http://www.logon.org/english/s/p015.html has an interesting analysis of the laws that appear in the food laws in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14.

I have no interest in eating as suggested in the Old Testament, New Testament, or any other book Holy to any religion. I eat as best I can to support my health and to respect the world that I live in.

I know that this discussion has lots of tinder in it to make for a great flamewar, but I'm hoping that we have enough respect for each other to keep it under control.


Yours in Practice and Respect,

Adam

2
E075f760b0b32810e4f7073df47324e8

(128)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:37 AM

For the creationist types I just say god put grains on the earth for birds to eat. Adam and Eve never had a milling machine. They ate meat, fruits and vegetables. For the rest of us I describe it in terms of actual evolution.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 03:28 PM

this argument is made in certain Jewish circles too, especially for celiacs who don't feel it is right to be bound my mitzvot (commandments) from later times that involve grain products.

1
95601768ec9cb75cc3a9cbcd2271ed14

(2206)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:05 AM

I came across this website when researching something totally unrelated a while back and thought it might be relevant to the discussion. While obviously nobody needs the Bible to tell them that PETA says and does a lot of dumb things (or even a website that may or may not of intentionally misspelled animal on the home page), I will say that for anyone who wants them, this guy has spent some time collecting Bible quotations about meat, hunting, and diet, which are easy to find even if you aren't interested in his perspective on them because he conveniently made them bold.

http://www.godeatsredmeat.com/index.html

1
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on December 16, 2010
at 07:54 PM

I cannot lend too much credence to the dietary suggestions of any religious manual due to the lack of citation and peer-review.

I take religion seriously, and i take dietary health seriously, so take it for my opinion when i say "i get a bit wary when social matters try to trump science matters."

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on December 16, 2010
at 10:28 PM

Well, a lot of paleo stuff has not been peer-reviewed. In fact, a lot of scientists scoff at paleo for being unscientific.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 16, 2010
at 10:36 PM

i.e. by evaluating weight gain/loss, bio-marker changes, measurable performance changes (ammt. of weight lifted, rep max, etc.) I'm not defending Paleo to the death, but it does work well for me. I don't think the fact that there aren't yet a lot of studies to support paleo casts the same doubt on it that the materialistic (i.e. regarding the physical world) claims of christianity do (and should) endure.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 16, 2010
at 10:33 PM

yea but it is making claims that are verifiable. we are getting into a whole other realm of discussion here, but christianity like all religions makes metaphysical/mystical/spiritual claims (i.e. those that do not fall within the empirical spectrum, cannot be proven or disproven within an empirical system). It ALSO makes materialistic claims about world history (the fall, the flood, etc.) which can and ought to be evaluated in an empirical method. Obviously, from a scientific perspective many of these claims are patently false. ANYWAY one can verify Paleo claims on a personal basis.

1
710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:03 PM

I'm curious how this is even relevant, to well, anything.

Let me begin by saying that I am a religious person who has engaged in intense spiritual/religious practices in an organized setting over a long period of time. I have an intense respect for Christianity in general and love Meister Eckhart, Merton, Thomas Aquinas etc. So this is not a post to bash Christianity or various interpretations of Christianity.

  1. thats not productive

  2. religious debate does not seem relevant to this forum

I am curious though, as to why one would feel the need to somehow 'justify' eating Paleo within a Christian context. Eating paleo seems to clearly not conflict with the basic tenets of Christianity (opposed to say various eastern religions that promote vegetarianism for, IMHO, pretty sound moral reasons--note that veganism/vegeterianism is also used extensively in many christian monastic practices).

All the problems of interpreting the Bible literally aside (i.e. as someone mentioned it contains many, many demonstrably false claims about material reality and patently rediculous social recommendations like owning slaves and killing your wife for various minor offenses), I just don't see the need to justify paleo within a christian context or vice versa.

Try it consistently for a month. Does it feel good/improve your overall health?

y: keep doing it

n: tweak it, experiment or stop altogether.

Religious/theological qualms? Consult your pastor/priest/minister whatever.

The idea that one would not engage in the diet, despite positive experiential results, because one disagrees with or has trouble with the proposed mechanisms of that success (i.e. the belief, based in empirical science, that humans have a genetic code that evolved over a very long time) seems very silly. If it works for you, but you cannot accept the theoretical premise, just carry on and thank your god that you found (or he/she/it led you to) something that increases your health and well being--which, btw, I think is a religious/spiritual imperative.

1
9dce97b4c4762a78a577a11585eef8f2

(1239)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:11 AM

I'm not a Christian, but all I know of food in the religion is the Ezekiel bread, mentioning the grains and legumes supposedly endorsed in the Bible...not super paleo...

However, turning one fish into many would make an awesome paleo party trick...

Ce0b5fd94b1034e96cf710b6f138c29d

(4089)

on December 18, 2010
at 05:26 PM

@Ben: arguably, the early bits of Genesis are all about the transition from foraging to farming; being cast out of Eden, being forced to live by the sweat of the brow, Eve's curse, Cain & Abel...

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on December 16, 2010
at 12:27 PM

Ezekiel bread is supposed to be made with DUNG as a PUNISHMENT, yes, bread is punishment even in the bible.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 02:34 PM

+1 to Stephen-Aegis Agriculture is a punishment. Man was forced to farm as a result of the fall.

0
Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18452)

on March 09, 2011
at 10:58 PM

Well I must say that for all the people who question whether or not this question is 'relevant', I think it's pretty telling that this question has generated an impressive response of answers and sub commentary. If a zillion people are highly interested in it and desire to discuss it, then the question commands its own relevancy in that context alone.

I think it's monumentally important to point out that there (obviously) is a significant number of folk on PaleoHacks that claim to be Christian. I'm sorry if this ruffles feathers but chew on this thought for a bit....

The "Christians" commenting here seem to be ok with the conversion, and want to mesh with this community peacefully, even though some of the thinking behind the "Paleo" idea might disagree with their core beliefs. This means they are willing to objectively look at other aspects and consider the whole and not throw the baby out with the bath water. You might call this hypocritical or a "Christian in hiding" or whatever you want, but I call major hogwash on such a generalized declaration. Seems to me, by reading the commentaries, that the folks who got most upset by this comment are non-Christians who become almost offended by it. I can completely understand how a person claiming to be a Christian specifically attacking the validity of the core beliefs of Paleolitic times might be out of line, but that's a whole different approach.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with this question. The OP clearly stated his intention, and even clarified that he believed the 2 worlds can happily mesh together, indicating an intention exactly opposite of what some commenters immediately called blame on him for.

My take...

Can people who call themselves Christians also intentionally eat "Paleo" style?

Of course. Food is food, not a religion. Nobody on earth is currently living in either Bible times or Paleolithic times, so we are all forced to co-exist by default and both camps have people who are seeking the healthiest foods of our time. Eating eggs and the fat of ruminant animals does not contradict with the Bible in any way.

Why do people struggle with the idea of combining Paleo diet and Christianity?

Because many people believe that they contradict each other. But this notion stems more from the human evolutionary side of the Paleolithic era and people interpret the timeframes of the Bible and the passages that speak of food in different ways.

In fact, the Bible teaches, in the Old Testament, that God wanted a sacrifice to be a healthy, fatty animal. He specifically commands NOT to eat the fat part of the animal before the sacrifice. Why? Because God condemns eating fat? One could take this command in this way. But it's the exact opposite actually. He wants a true and valuable sacrifice. Get it? The best part.

Things are not always cut and dry folks. No need to spit flames at one another or become highly offended just because someone believes one thing that doesn't exactly line up with what you believe.

0
C61399790c6531a0af344ab0c40048f1

on December 20, 2010
at 07:39 AM

I am always shocked at just how big a deal religion is in America.

5f0158c23fcb5636e57b4ce097784da0

(1386)

on December 20, 2010
at 12:24 PM

could be my words. it's actually rather scary..

0
25819079a9264c10bcba7cd592e16216

(446)

on December 19, 2010
at 02:14 PM

Yes, I am a Christian and Paleo and it is not the oxymoron that it seems. Though I battled over this issue for years, through a raw foodist and vegeterian stint, once I stop being ethnocentric I realize that:

A. The Bible was written by Jews for Jews. Therefore, their understanding of the world, creation, and food were very different than ours. ex. Creation from nothing may be a 21st century way of thinking. Most religions around the time thought of creation in functional terms instead of material-from-nothing terms. The god(s) made the world functional from a non-functional, chaotic state. (Interested Christians read this book.)

B. Taking this written-by-Jews-for-Jews book out of its original context in terms of dietary laws/advice is not only anachronistic but inapplicable to our current times. God worked within their current system of understanding to reveal himself... he stooped to their level. Yes, fasting is helpful and relevant for anyone's spiritual views and physiological systems, but to say we should eat bread because the people of the Bible ate bread and had recipes for bread takes it out of context and makes the text say something it never meant to say.

C. Brains are there for a reason. I have the privilege to look at science and all of the insightful evidence it presents, so I see that grains and neolithic foods are harmful. Since I have the choice and the means to eat a high quality Paleo diet that works wonders for my body, I will do so.

Paleo enhances my spiritual life through its many benefits. I now appreciate the life and death every animal sacrifices to give me life since I've learned to clean and process my meat. It's a beautiful thing.

0
Bc2110309df459e4fd6c8dab58e364ab

(1096)

on December 19, 2010
at 02:42 AM

Jesus ate kosher. Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. P.S. I am jewish and I love bacon, so I am not being a jerk.

0
286a4ff7c362241c5c4b020df4972212

on December 19, 2010
at 02:22 AM

Well the bible forbids us eating pork ( aka Bacon ) as its an unclean food - where does that leave us all???? LOL

B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 21, 2010
at 12:18 AM

Im not religious but the Bible does NOT forbid eating pork. The Torah and the Koran do. Mark 7:18 (NIV) "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? - Jesus

0
B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on December 16, 2010
at 11:25 PM

Paleo is one of the things that helped me lose my faith. At the time I was attending church and even in a small group. I am very thankful for breaking through this line of thinking and have evolved greatly since dropping my beliefs. A big trigger was reading about the Hadza.

0
F53a74de3f8df19a114c5ac702af2b12

on December 16, 2010
at 04:34 PM

This is an awesome question and Im not open to debate.

As a Christian, I find the paleo diet to be a great way to help others regain their health by having them align their dietary thinking with the Word, realizing that pastured meats and real fats are more closely related to what Abraham, King David, and Paul ate. As for the grains, Christians should be reminded that with all the ag tech going around, no grain is safe for consumption since its genetic structure is nothing close to biblical times.

Jimmy Moore talked about it recently with commentary from all the great minds in paleo.

0
4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 03:57 PM

The whole point of "eating paleo" is to eat foods that were around in the paleolithic period, a period of time which Christians believe didn't exist (god put the fossils in the ground to test your faith - remember?)

The reason to eat paleo is that you believe that eating the foods that were available to humans for the millions of years during which humans evolved is more likely to lead to good health than eating the foods that humans produced in the last 10,000 years.

But, Christians don't believe in evolution... or the paleolithic period... (In fact, they don't believe in the first half of the neolithic period either). Oh my.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:27 PM

It's not my fault that your religion makes verifiably false claims

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:55 PM

Sherpamelissa, then why do you call it paleo?

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:23 PM

It's not my fault that your religion makes some verifiably false claims.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:44 AM

My answer was very sarcastic, but was not meant to be offensive. I just don't think religious beliefs should be too sacred to be criticized or even ridiculed. Instead, it might be best if they are open to frank discussion. Either there is a god or there isn't, nobody has special knowledge of which others can't understand. I'm very careful about ridiculing sensitive topics that exist in the real world (genocide, rape, et), but religion is a hypothesis (albeit a very deeply embedded and untested one).

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:58 PM

Well, I didn't name it Paleo. They people that came up with it call it Paleo. I just like how it works. I didn't find out about it by researching or caring what my ancestors ate. My trainer recommended it and it worked.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:22 PM

@Jay- My religion? As in.....Christianity? Because there is a church that can speak for all Christians? Who speaks for you?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:49 PM

Jay, you are clearly out of line when you suggest that all Christians "don't believe in evolution" or believe in talking snakes and the like. No religion or culture is monolithic. It's all to easy to ridicule people when you lump them into labels based on their most ridiculous members. Hell, some Paleos believe that chicken breast and canola oil are great but short ribs and sweet potatoes are bad. Please don't resort to strawman arguments. We don't need them.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:17 PM

Hey Jay! Thanks for the generlization that all Christians don't believe the paleolithic period existed. I love it when someone tells others what they believe "(In fact, you don't believe in the first half of the neolithic period either)". Not to mention that the "whole point of eating paleo" is to be healthy and to live optimally with this body you either believe evolved or was created.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on December 16, 2010
at 04:32 PM

I personally do not eat Paleo because "I believe that eating the foods that were available to humans for the millions of years during which humans evolved is more likely to lead to good health than eating the foods that humans produced in the last 10,000 years" I eat Paleo because I believe the science behind the digestion issues with insulin and how they affect my body. And it makes me feel better and look better.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 17, 2010
at 05:01 AM

@Kamal- I was simply making a point regarding rationalization. You might want to take a course in context ;-)

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:05 PM

@Ben, you believe in talking snakes, virgin pregnancy, god's son, who is also god somehow, rising from the dead, a death which was a sacrifice (how exactly is it a sacrifice if he was a god?) which gave mankind kind a way to avoid being tortured by the god-dad for eternity, which apparently happens to all people born before jebus or who had parents who taught them equally silly myths from the neighboring bronze age tribes -- and you are lecturing me about rationality!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:46 AM

And I think Ben's comments are quite the bait for sarcasm. "One species changing into another species"?? If Ben thinks that's a ridiculous hypotheses, he may want to take some courses in genetics!

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:02 PM

@Ben, you believe in talking snakes, virgin pregnancy, god's son, who is also god somehow, rising from the dead, a death which was a sacrifice (how exactly given he was god) which gave mankind kind a way to avoid being tortured by the god-dad for eternity, which apparently happens to all people born before jebus or who had parents who taught them equally silly myths from the neighboring bronze age tribes -- and you are lecturing me about rationality! LOL

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 16, 2010
at 07:02 PM

Jay- you cannot win arguments with Christian people. You only have logic and science, whereas they have a plethora of irrational but established tools at their disposal. That being said, I will upvote your answer as a sign of solidarity.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:06 PM

@Ben, you believe in talking snakes, virgin pregnancy, god's son, who is also god somehow, rising from the dead, a death which was a sacrifice (how exactly is it a sacrifice if he was a god?) which gave mankind a way to avoid being tortured by the god-dad for eternity, which apparently happens to all people born before jebus or who had parents who taught them equally silly myths from the neighboring bronze age tribes -- and you are lecturing me about rationality!

Bc2110309df459e4fd6c8dab58e364ab

(1096)

on December 19, 2010
at 02:52 AM

this entire thread is insane. most of you know that you're shooting fish in a barrel.

6fa48935d439390e223b9a053a62c981

(1676)

on December 17, 2010
at 02:38 AM

People are entitled to their beliefs, Kamal and Jay, even if you don't understand, agree, or approve. Your arrogance and condescension are offensive. And this answer is clearly not intended elucidate or contribute, but only to belittle and denigrate.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:39 PM

@Ben, nobody speaks for me but me. Fine by me if you arbitrarily jettison parts of Christianity (like the creation myths), but you have no principled reason for picking those parts and not other parts (jesus myth). Whatever floats your boat, dude. I'd appreciate if so-called Christians stopped voting their bronze-age values so our political dialogue could start to be rationale. Grow some balls and realize that everything your parents told you when you were little isn't true.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 06:09 PM

@Jay- What do you believe that is so rational? Creation by accident? Matter just existing with no beginning or end? One species changing into another species? A random explosion ultimately being responsible for all life? Rationality fail. Anyway, I'm done with this. This discussion with you became pointless, fast. Take care. See you around the forum.

A8d95f3744a7a0885894ee0731c9744c

(3761)

on December 16, 2010
at 05:48 PM

@Jay- You can reconcile science with Christianity without destroying the idea of Creationism, or Jesus. Your generalizations, and lack of knowledge in Christianity (not to mention your lack of patience) discount your ability to have any sort of rational discussion.

6fa48935d439390e223b9a053a62c981

(1676)

on December 17, 2010
at 02:40 AM

People are entitled to their beliefs, Kamal and Jay, even if you don't understand, agree, or approve. Your arrogance and condescension are offensive. And this answer is clearly not intended to elucidate or contribute, but only to belittle and denigrate.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on December 17, 2010
at 07:28 PM

Melissa, why did you delete my answer? Pointing out that Christianity centrally includes a creation story that begins thousands of years after the end of the paleolithic period has relevance, I strongly believe, for a question about the PALEO diet and Christianity. Based on your other comments, I didn't think you were religious, so why were you offended by the answer?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on December 18, 2010
at 06:23 AM

Jay and Melissa- I bought a book a while ago for a friend about "Foods of the Bible". Funny enough, we couldn't tie it to my paleo diet, because of the above reason. But the answer was probably deleted because some people identify very strongly with their religion, and analyzing the religion in order to shed a negative light on it is taken as a personal insult.

0
655d884d3815063d001642a370ef0154

on December 16, 2010
at 07:04 AM

perhaps you could expand...

-1
9f2b5def0bc7fd8ad615637d1ffeb9ec

on December 16, 2010
at 02:27 PM

As a Christian and paleo enthusiast I am troubled by the presence of bread in the sacrament. I realize that the bread Christ ate was different, but how do we reconcile the problem of grains with the bread of communion?

9f2b5def0bc7fd8ad615637d1ffeb9ec

on December 17, 2010
at 03:37 PM

If you were celiac, then it would hurt a lot.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:27 AM

even if you took communion every day...I was raised catholic...that thing is tiny.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on December 16, 2010
at 03:26 PM

What do they do for celiacs? Is there a gluten-free choice? Oooh, just found this link: http://foodallergies.about.com/od/wheatallergies/f/communionwheat.htm

F3951b3141a6ab7036b33e70b4bfad71

(269)

on December 16, 2010
at 03:47 PM

My Catholic Church offers a gluten free host...just ask as it is not advertised very well.

Ce0b5fd94b1034e96cf710b6f138c29d

(4089)

on December 18, 2010
at 05:23 PM

Simple, really. Bread was the staple food at the time and place of the Last Supper. If it had happened in Asia, the Eucharist would involve rice and rice wine. If it had happened in the late Paleolithic, perhaps it would have involved mammoth jerky and hallucinogenic mushroom juice or whatever other form of intoxicasnt was popular at the time. The important thing, I think, is the participation in the ritual. And a little bread won't kill you and we're not Vegans.

3f61ba25dff05b513c7769a22408169a

on December 16, 2010
at 06:37 PM

Second that as a Catholic, there is gluten free host but you do need to ask in advance and know who, Priest or Eucharistic minister, will have it available. As for being troubled by the presence of bread, you always have to remember the historical audience. This was a blood sacrifice that was understood by the Jewish audience, how would that audience have reacted if the shared item had been meat. As it was explained to me, the Bible was written in certain places and times for a level of understanding of the universe that was present. Sometimes parables, allegories, types are necessary.

710a2d86803b176778ce7db770944bb7

(626)

on December 17, 2010
at 03:27 AM

would a little communion wafer ONE day a week really even hurt?

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