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Trying Leangains/Intermittent fasting Paleo-Style: Am I really supposed to eat that much?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created February 16, 2013 at 5:27 PM

So, I'm playing around with the idea of trying leangains. 2 main problems to work out:

1) I cross fit 2-3 times a week, plus I usually throw in some weight lifting or dancing/biking/skiing/hiking on my off days. Usually this is 5-6 days/week of activity. Leangains recommends no cardio, just weights 3 days/wk.

2) Since going paleo, I've been eating around 80-100 grams of fat per day, less than 100 grams carbs, and 80-100 grams protein. This is my lean gains/intermittent fasting calculator:

http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

So now I'm supposed to refeed with carbs (350 grams) on workout days, eat 1900 calories on rest days, lower my fat, up my protein, and eat nearly 2500 calories on workout days. I've been kind of trying and this is very hard to do. Here is yesterday: Pre-workout: 6 oz chicken, sauteed spinach, mushrooms, and onions. Post-work out: Water with unflavored whey protein and vita greens, then for my post-workout meal I had 4 oz salmon, a big salad with beets, 2 servings squash, 1/2 yam, some carrots, and some yogurt. And I had, ahem, a big glass of wine. I was full. Like, really full. And I barely met my protein requirements for the day and did not meet my carb requirements. And my 8 hours of eating was up.

Is anyone else playing around with this? What have you found works? Are you eating dairy/whey to meet your protein requirements?

Does anyone else think my calorie requirements are nuts? I know, I know. I've got to lay off working out so much. It's a work in progress. I never thought I'd be saying that.

0abbec29fdcc092e969885ad70aa4c11

on February 17, 2013
at 11:58 PM

Ok? So you aren't using Lean Gains for what the author expects you to use it for. I also don't see that skipping breakfast and condensing your eating window is superior to just eating less across 3 meals the way the majority of weight-class athletes do it. Same with modifying training to include super-sets, shorter rests etc...

3b031bce7c181c10452ee202e2b54dc6

(803)

on February 17, 2013
at 06:15 AM

My advice from being a Berkham IF'er for over a year is: Read his site. Every. Single. Article. Then, go over to bodyrecomposition.com and read as much Lyle McDonald as you can. then decide. I'm quitting IF after great success to follow more a Sisson/McDonald mix

B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 01:32 AM

Thanks, that was helpful. My mind was boggled with paleo, now it is being boggled again by the idea of stuffing face and doing less. I certainly haven't stopped learning!

B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 01:31 AM

I'm not hoping to get down to super-low body fat. I'm a woman within normal range who would like to get down to a lower range (like 17%) while being able to maintain or gain a little in my lifts. So, if I didn't do leangains the way I was currently eating with paleo, I could be gaining more fat and muscle than I really want. That's why I'm on the leangains "cut".

B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 01:12 AM

What's a lot of sweet potatoes? Like, I should be adding on 2 whole sweet potatoes to that meal?

B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 01:11 AM

Maybe. I just started but I was definitely trying to limit my carbs more. I think I feel pretty good after a carb-refeed post workout, since I'm most hungry at that time.

0abbec29fdcc092e969885ad70aa4c11

on February 16, 2013
at 10:14 PM

Did you read his blog and the comments? One post was on TEF and e was advising 45-50% protein. If he has changed that, that's good. 2000kcal per day...50%...1000kcal /4 = 250gm. So that is fine if you are an small, atheletic woman but I'm 6'5, 270lbs...I don't need 500gm of protein.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on February 16, 2013
at 08:17 PM

I haven't seen anyone recommending 250g of protein on LG, and very rarely even outside of LG. Typical recommendations start from 1g per kg of bodyweight up to around 2.5g.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on February 16, 2013
at 05:37 PM

If you want to eat more than switch out some of the high volume foods (salad greens) for starch. It will a lot easier for you to eat the amount of carbs you want if you eat starches...

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6 Answers

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1
9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on February 16, 2013
at 08:15 PM

Those are close my macros. Yes, it feels and looks crazy, but it really works. FWIW I didn't find any difference in fat loss rate between 20g and 80g of workout day fat consumption

I'm in the last weeks of a LeanGains cut on paleo/primal - been doing it for 1.5 years, lost 20+ kilos. Started at well above 20%, currently below 12%.

My current macros are 2400 cals PWO (I train fasted), and 1600 on off-days. On weekly average I do 162g carbs, 126g protein, 84g fat (yes, I count my calories). On workout days I eat 300+g of carbs, less than 50g on a typical off-day. Protein roughly same, fat the balancing macro.

I re-introduced sweet potatoes and occasional white rice to my diet to help with the PWO carbs. Rest I fill mostly with fruit: apples, bananas, dates, figs, grapes, prunes, dates, etc.

I eat one large meal a day, and one or two large snacks. It took me a month or two to adjust to the massive PWO meals. I can now down 1500 cals without breaking a sweat, which includes 500g of chicken or a similarly sized prime steak, one or two large sweet potatoes, and a piece of fruit.

I have really bad appetite, so if I can do this, so can you. I would almost say that LG has fixed my bad appetite, as I'm actually looking forward to my clean bulk starting in a few weeks.

B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 01:32 AM

Thanks, that was helpful. My mind was boggled with paleo, now it is being boggled again by the idea of stuffing face and doing less. I certainly haven't stopped learning!

1
3b031bce7c181c10452ee202e2b54dc6

on February 17, 2013
at 06:19 AM

pwitty, I noticed you mentioned you're female.

Please read this article as word of warning from a fellow paleo gal who tried IF. Just as I mentioned, please read Berkham's site in it's entirety before you jump on the band wagon!

http://civilizedcavemancooking.com/reviews/how-intermittent-fasting-saved-mewhile-slowly-killing-me/

0
705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

on February 16, 2013
at 09:19 PM

I don't understand how it's Leangains w/this kind of activity level. It just seems like an 8 hour intermittent fasting window and the macros necessary to cram food into that window.

You get used to eating more after a while. Hint: You can use food reward theory about food choice for fat loss and in reverse. Change viscosity, add salt, and add artificial sweeteners.

0
0abbec29fdcc092e969885ad70aa4c11

on February 16, 2013
at 08:13 PM

Gaining muscle takes a lot of calories. I believe Lowery et al calculated 2600kcal to synthesize a pound of muscle plus the amino acids required.

In general I'm not impressed with the Lean Gains approach. It is a bit obsessive for my taste. Also, I just don't see people needing more than 250gm or so of protein in the context of a diet with a fair whack of carbs.

If you want to gain visible muscle mass just be smart - Eat a lot of food, eat a lot of meat, lift with a lot of volume and give it 6-12 months before you cut calories and try to lean out.

I really think you are pissing into the wind trying to be 4% BF while gaining muscle. Not saying it can't be done (though I have my doubts) but it is just isn't optimal.

0abbec29fdcc092e969885ad70aa4c11

on February 16, 2013
at 10:14 PM

Did you read his blog and the comments? One post was on TEF and e was advising 45-50% protein. If he has changed that, that's good. 2000kcal per day...50%...1000kcal /4 = 250gm. So that is fine if you are an small, atheletic woman but I'm 6'5, 270lbs...I don't need 500gm of protein.

B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 01:31 AM

I'm not hoping to get down to super-low body fat. I'm a woman within normal range who would like to get down to a lower range (like 17%) while being able to maintain or gain a little in my lifts. So, if I didn't do leangains the way I was currently eating with paleo, I could be gaining more fat and muscle than I really want. That's why I'm on the leangains "cut".

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on February 16, 2013
at 08:17 PM

I haven't seen anyone recommending 250g of protein on LG, and very rarely even outside of LG. Typical recommendations start from 1g per kg of bodyweight up to around 2.5g.

0abbec29fdcc092e969885ad70aa4c11

on February 17, 2013
at 11:58 PM

Ok? So you aren't using Lean Gains for what the author expects you to use it for. I also don't see that skipping breakfast and condensing your eating window is superior to just eating less across 3 meals the way the majority of weight-class athletes do it. Same with modifying training to include super-sets, shorter rests etc...

0
B72e976b2df9e7f01315830062a5209c

(1365)

on February 16, 2013
at 08:01 PM

1) Martin isn't entirely against cardio if you're overweight, but if your main goal is to put on muscle then yeah, it isn't necessary at all.

2) Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of sweet potatoes on workout days. Normal Paleo on off days.

B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 01:12 AM

What's a lot of sweet potatoes? Like, I should be adding on 2 whole sweet potatoes to that meal?

0
3b031bce7c181c10452ee202e2b54dc6

on February 16, 2013
at 05:36 PM

were you having problems with satiety before trying Berkham's approach?

3b031bce7c181c10452ee202e2b54dc6

(803)

on February 17, 2013
at 06:15 AM

My advice from being a Berkham IF'er for over a year is: Read his site. Every. Single. Article. Then, go over to bodyrecomposition.com and read as much Lyle McDonald as you can. then decide. I'm quitting IF after great success to follow more a Sisson/McDonald mix

B9cfa43798183424786a59d11ac52f76

(145)

on February 17, 2013
at 01:11 AM

Maybe. I just started but I was definitely trying to limit my carbs more. I think I feel pretty good after a carb-refeed post workout, since I'm most hungry at that time.

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