7

votes

Intermittent Fasting better than antioxidants?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 06, 2012 at 2:08 PM

Those familiar with the work of Michael Ristow will know that caloric restriction results in dramatically extended life expectancy in C. Elegans. In his studies, he noted that antioxidant supplementation thwarted this effect.

His premise is that CR induces a hormetic effect - via oxidative stress - presumably mediated by endo-antioxidants (superoxide dismutase??). Hence antioxidant supplements interfere by limiting oxidative stress, and short circuiting hormesis.

So - it seems that one should AVOID AO supplements - particularly when following an IF regimen. Comments, please...

It seems too, that AGE production might just be the decisive factor in matters health and longevity, rather than oxidative stress per se, since it looks like the body is able to cope with that. Logically, then, aren't avoidance of fructose, keeping blood glucose levels moderately low, and IF the way to go?

Seems to fit the Paleo approach!

D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on February 25, 2012
at 06:30 PM

To Wisper - link problems? Works fine for me (just checked)

D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on February 25, 2012
at 06:29 PM

To Mash - yes - excellent. The hormesis approach is convincing for me.

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on February 24, 2012
at 08:32 PM

Link? 10 more to go

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on February 24, 2012
at 12:36 PM

His recorded talk on IF is great too.

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:39 PM

Tomatos still do that. Well, ones you grow yourself. :) The storebought have all pretty much been bred for thick skins so they can be picked green and last longer in shipping across the world to stores...

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:50 PM

And from personal experience I can tell you that 50 years ago most fruit sold in the US was much sweeter than it is today. You couldn't bite into a tomato without juice spraying everywhere! Berries were MUCH sweeter.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:33 PM

@Namby Pamby: check this out >>> http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11879&page=189 on page 189, read about custard apples. Probably sweeter than anything we eat, but wouldn't "process" well.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:32 PM

@Namby Pamby: check this out >>> nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11879&page=185 on page 189, read about custard apples. Probably sweeter than anything we eat, but wouldn't "process" well.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:27 PM

@Namby Pamby: check this out >>> http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11879&page=185

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:10 PM

Fruits have not always been sweet. Fruits have been bred for sweetness. They were seasonal. Denise Minger's point was regarding sparse fruits with unusual sweetness, not consumed by large populations. Modern fruit farming ==> higher fructose load, probably less fiber. Built-in appetite control not totally gone (as in juice) but certainly lessened.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:44 PM

See Cordain's latest book where he warns against antioxidant supplements, which may do what you describe. He recommends taking only fish oil and Vit D; all other, isolated vitamin and mineral supplements may not help and in fact may harm, including Paleo favorites like Selenium, Vit K2, C, etc. IF AGE is the main culprit, then we should see fuitarians not faring too well. The Q is: is it excess fructose or any level of fructose. AGE will be minimized by wiping out all fructose sources from your diet, including veggies like carrots, tomatoes, and onions. Expect another long, heated debate.

  • D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

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3 Answers

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1
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 03:59 PM

Given that whole fruit has always been in our environment, and we may have eaten different species along the way but they were always sweet--as was honey--and that we can not make our own vitamin C I plan to continue eating a piece or two of whole fruit each day. Supplements are manufactured and processed just as junk food is and they are even more highly processed.

I agree that HFCS and eating mass quantities of fruit every day isn't good for you, just as I agree that eating only vegetables is a famine-type diet and eating only meat may just perhaps be a famine-type diet though there are people who swear they thrive on both those approaches.

I subscribe to "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" and I will continue to eat whole meat, vegetables and fruits. When I was eating a ton of fruit along with HFCS my liver enzymes were just fine--if a couple pieces of fruit can shorten my life on an ancestral eating plan then there's something wrong with the plan.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:32 PM

@Namby Pamby: check this out >>> nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11879&page=185 on page 189, read about custard apples. Probably sweeter than anything we eat, but wouldn't "process" well.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:33 PM

@Namby Pamby: check this out >>> http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11879&page=189 on page 189, read about custard apples. Probably sweeter than anything we eat, but wouldn't "process" well.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 05:50 PM

And from personal experience I can tell you that 50 years ago most fruit sold in the US was much sweeter than it is today. You couldn't bite into a tomato without juice spraying everywhere! Berries were MUCH sweeter.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:10 PM

Fruits have not always been sweet. Fruits have been bred for sweetness. They were seasonal. Denise Minger's point was regarding sparse fruits with unusual sweetness, not consumed by large populations. Modern fruit farming ==> higher fructose load, probably less fiber. Built-in appetite control not totally gone (as in juice) but certainly lessened.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on January 06, 2012
at 04:27 PM

@Namby Pamby: check this out >>> http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11879&page=185

5e36f73c3f95eb4ea13a009f4936449f

(8280)

on January 06, 2012
at 06:39 PM

Tomatos still do that. Well, ones you grow yourself. :) The storebought have all pretty much been bred for thick skins so they can be picked green and last longer in shipping across the world to stores...

best answer

2
D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on February 24, 2012
at 12:14 PM

Hey folks - I found my own answers - elegantly researched by Todd Becker.

Take a look if you're interested in this topic, Todd has tackled it in his own inimitable "OCD" style.

http://gettingstronger.org/2011/03/the-case-against-antioxidants/

9f54852ea376e8e416356f547611e052

(2957)

on February 24, 2012
at 08:32 PM

Link? 10 more to go

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on February 24, 2012
at 12:36 PM

His recorded talk on IF is great too.

D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on February 25, 2012
at 06:29 PM

To Mash - yes - excellent. The hormesis approach is convincing for me.

D07a525f9021f8d72bf6aaa52893c795

(1011)

on February 25, 2012
at 06:30 PM

To Wisper - link problems? Works fine for me (just checked)

0
082bf04a7486991c5e573a66f1404b3e

on January 06, 2012
at 03:49 PM

The AGE thing is definitely real. You only need to look at massive steroid abusers (and I mean, worlds-strongest-man type; big BIG guys) and then google their age (and srsly, wtf) to see the enormous impact of carb-loading.

Not sure about anti-oxidants, but it's an interesting train of thought and I'll definitely do some reading on it.

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