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Newcastle diabetes cure: what do you think?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 08, 2013 at 7:30 AM

For those of you who don't feel like googling, there is a diet cure for type 2 diabetes implemented by the Newcastle University.

Basically, it is a short-term (as short as 11 days) low-calory (600 calories) low-carb diet based on green vegetables and Optifast milkshake for additional nutrients. No meat, fish, dairy or fat. Nothing else.

I am contemplating on doing it for two weeks, then adding fat and protein.

I am not keen on Optifast milkshake and do not want to incorporate it.

So, what do you think?

Thanks in advance :)

EDITED - LINKS PROVIDED

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/may/12/type-2-diabetes-diet-cure

http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/Lim.pdf

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press.office/press.release/item/diet-reverses-type-2-diabetes

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 10, 2013
at 11:16 AM

abetes, if there is indeed permemant damage or risk of the 'body remembering' with regard to people who've been 'cured' of diabetes. Without knowing detailed followup of the ppl in the study though I think that it's difficult to say blanketly that this is a cure. A lot is not understood..

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 10, 2013
at 11:12 AM

@Sataran, not sure we really disagree very much. I agree it is a cure insofar as ppl who are diagnosed within four years can regain sensivity, but without there being a followup to know what happens to people as a result of going on a crash diet (regain? or what do they do maintain weight and lifestyle?, what hap[pens to their beta cell function- is there damage?), it can't justifiably be framed as a cure because they're back from the dead. A heart attack patient can be too (and I know these aren't necessarily analogous situations - damage done in aheat attack is more than what occurs with di

0b1183c1cb9a03cb6dad93cb60926f6e

on August 10, 2013
at 12:23 AM

Yeah, but it's still one guy. That one guy can't speak for the demographics.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 09, 2013
at 01:40 PM

@thhq - for now I am just low-carbing. My results are very very strange so I need to figure out what is going on before doing anything. Thanks for commenting.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 09, 2013
at 12:38 PM

Tiredness and fatigue aren't diagnostics for T2. And controlling high blood sugar after diagnosis I cut sugars and starches severely, including potatoes and rice along with bread, pastries and breakfast cereal.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 09, 2013
at 12:34 PM

I could control my blood sugar into a normal non-diabetic range within 2 weeks of T2 diagnosis by strictly reducing high glycemic carbs. I assumed this was the normal outcome of the carb counting method that ADA developed. Whether or not, it worked for me short term. What worked long term (6 years at this point) was the loss of 50 lbs and getting rid of my obesity. Lower weight, smaller waistline.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 09, 2013
at 12:28 PM

When my doctor diagnosed me as T2 there was substantial evidence - 8.0 A1C and 200 fasting blood glucose on repeated tests. As satarin says, without evidence of diabetes why would you do this?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 09, 2013
at 10:15 AM

I wanted to have the glucose tolerance test, but I need the doctor's permission first. I am planning to see two different doctors next week, so... let's see what is going to happen with that.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 09, 2013
at 10:14 AM

Agree. But in one of the articles (not sure if I provided the link to it) there was a follow up from only one guy. His diabetes did not come back in 1 year.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 09, 2013
at 10:12 AM

Thank you very much for your answer.

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on August 09, 2013
at 03:28 AM

Actually this is a cure. You're literally brought back from the dead. Once dx'ed as diabetic, there is really no way to regain reverse insulin resistance. This study was the only confirmed case of diabetes reversal other than gastric bypass. Here, undoubtedly, some will maintain their old habits and become diabetic. But a few will not, having learned their lessons. I know one guy who did the same and he think he's lucky to have been brought back from the dead and is low carbing. He will not be turning diabetic.

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on August 09, 2013
at 12:43 AM

Why not first see if you're diabetic first?

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 09, 2013
at 12:28 AM

Yes, he was, and no detail is provided regarding what he has done in the period since. It's not much of a follow up if we don't know how's he's been living since- if he can go to work while on 600calories a day for 11 days, who's to say he's returned to areasonable sized intake? A lot of people who lose a lot of weight quickly keep it that wak by exercising madly 0 who's to say he isn't? If we can really say it's a long term cure not a short term fix, these things need to be known...

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 08, 2013
at 06:38 PM

I felt great after the immunologist treatment, and after re-introducing some junk food it went back to what it was before. Now if I eat potatoes and other carbs I feel great, but I gain weight, but if I stop eating potatoes, I lose weight and feel lousy.

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on August 08, 2013
at 02:01 PM

Are you more, less, or the same as far as fatigue goes than say, a year ago?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 08, 2013
at 01:29 PM

I am still very tired and fatigued on some days and cannot pinpoint the reason. I am thinking doing the glucose-intolerance test.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 08, 2013
at 01:28 PM

They posted a follow-up - his diabetes did not return.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 08, 2013
at 01:27 PM

Actually, their most famous patient was on the diet for 11 days.

C6648ab69e5a1560c7585fe3ba7108fb

(880)

on August 08, 2013
at 12:23 PM

Seconded. The article states that T2 is reversable within four years of insulin resistance appearing, at least according to the researchers, but there's no real reason to do a crash diet that's not sustainable long-term just to lose the weight necessary to restore insulin sensitivity.

3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on August 08, 2013
at 11:15 AM

Fat is the least insulinogenic macronutrient. No reason to cut out fat, especially if you're looking to regain control of your blood sugar levels.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 08, 2013
at 10:41 AM

If you thought ppl wouldn't want to google, wouldn't including a link follow from that to make it easier...?

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4 Answers

best answer

1
D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on August 09, 2013
at 03:48 AM

The study actually happened quite a while ago. It was controversial but was groundbreaking since it was really the first confirmed case of diabetes reversal. No, we're not talking about the End of Diabetes like Dr. Fuhrman says -- i.e., maintain normal BG by being on a legume-based diet. We're talking about actually reversing glucose intolerance after ingesting 75 grams of carbs.

These were all confirmed diabetics. It is true that they were all recently diagnosed. So their diabetes hadn't progressed too far.

You're supposed to stress the system ... the Newcastle study talks about removing the fat from the inner organs: liver and pancreas. No one knows the exact mechanism but I wouldn't be surprised if the weight loss resulted in the suppression of postprandial ghrelin and BCAAs. This happens when you undergo gastric bypass/lap band surgery, which also reverses T2 diabetes.

Those are the only 2 confirmed cases of diabetes reversal in human history: (1) the "shock and awe" starvation diet for recently-dxed diabetics and(2) lap-banding for T2 diabetics in deteriorating conditions. Why knock it? Yes, ideally, they should be followed by a lifestyle reversal which will keep them from becoming diabetic again. But it's the mechanism that we're after, not whether they should adopt Paleo or VLC or SAD.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 09, 2013
at 10:12 AM

Thank you very much for your answer.

3
Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

on August 08, 2013
at 10:46 AM

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21656330

They went on a crash diet in the short term (8 weeks, not 11 days) and lost weight, which 'cured' the diabetes. It seems counterintutive to me that this is a cure. They lost weight quickly, then beta cell function returned... What's going to happen when they stop eating a starvation diet? If they have a crappy lifestyle or even eat well the crash diet could predispose them to weight gain and then diabetes all over again. In which case I question if this can really be considered a cure if following the study ppl might contract it again. Short term amelioration yes? Long time cure no.

This is my thinking at the moment...

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 08, 2013
at 01:28 PM

They posted a follow-up - his diabetes did not return.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 09, 2013
at 12:28 AM

Yes, he was, and no detail is provided regarding what he has done in the period since. It's not much of a follow up if we don't know how's he's been living since- if he can go to work while on 600calories a day for 11 days, who's to say he's returned to areasonable sized intake? A lot of people who lose a lot of weight quickly keep it that wak by exercising madly 0 who's to say he isn't? If we can really say it's a long term cure not a short term fix, these things need to be known...

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on August 09, 2013
at 03:28 AM

Actually this is a cure. You're literally brought back from the dead. Once dx'ed as diabetic, there is really no way to regain reverse insulin resistance. This study was the only confirmed case of diabetes reversal other than gastric bypass. Here, undoubtedly, some will maintain their old habits and become diabetic. But a few will not, having learned their lessons. I know one guy who did the same and he think he's lucky to have been brought back from the dead and is low carbing. He will not be turning diabetic.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 09, 2013
at 12:34 PM

I could control my blood sugar into a normal non-diabetic range within 2 weeks of T2 diagnosis by strictly reducing high glycemic carbs. I assumed this was the normal outcome of the carb counting method that ADA developed. Whether or not, it worked for me short term. What worked long term (6 years at this point) was the loss of 50 lbs and getting rid of my obesity. Lower weight, smaller waistline.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 08, 2013
at 01:27 PM

Actually, their most famous patient was on the diet for 11 days.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 10, 2013
at 11:16 AM

abetes, if there is indeed permemant damage or risk of the 'body remembering' with regard to people who've been 'cured' of diabetes. Without knowing detailed followup of the ppl in the study though I think that it's difficult to say blanketly that this is a cure. A lot is not understood..

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on August 10, 2013
at 11:12 AM

@Sataran, not sure we really disagree very much. I agree it is a cure insofar as ppl who are diagnosed within four years can regain sensivity, but without there being a followup to know what happens to people as a result of going on a crash diet (regain? or what do they do maintain weight and lifestyle?, what hap[pens to their beta cell function- is there damage?), it can't justifiably be framed as a cure because they're back from the dead. A heart attack patient can be too (and I know these aren't necessarily analogous situations - damage done in aheat attack is more than what occurs with di

C6648ab69e5a1560c7585fe3ba7108fb

(880)

on August 08, 2013
at 12:23 PM

Seconded. The article states that T2 is reversable within four years of insulin resistance appearing, at least according to the researchers, but there's no real reason to do a crash diet that's not sustainable long-term just to lose the weight necessary to restore insulin sensitivity.

1
0b1183c1cb9a03cb6dad93cb60926f6e

on August 08, 2013
at 04:46 PM

I would have to read the original study to come to a conclusion. I need to see statistics and I need to know the demographics of the population.

Updated

Okay, now that I have read the article. First problem: This sample size is too small. 11 people? and of that 2 were women? This study isn't even statistically significant. But then again, Freud came up with a theory for children that is still practiced today and never studied a single child. Second issue: I noticed is that 2 of the 11 people regained their diabetes and there was an average of a 7-8 pound weight gain after three months. What bothers me is that the authors don't say why. We can only assume that their habits reverted back before the intervention. Who were the two? Was it the women? That could have implications. Lastly, I agree with their limitation about length of diabetes diagnosis was 4 years. So, they are saying that if you have had diabetes for more than 4 years, they cannot promise that this will work. The diet seems to consist of vegetables, liquid diet formula, some supplements, and some water or energy free beverages. It would make sense that you would lose weight. However, did this study account for all the causes? Nope. They just focused on weight. I gotta get off my soapbox or I'll go on and on. The point is I would wait until there is a larger study. They only did a 4 month followup. What happens after 12 months? 24 months? Where are these people!!????

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 09, 2013
at 10:14 AM

Agree. But in one of the articles (not sure if I provided the link to it) there was a follow up from only one guy. His diabetes did not come back in 1 year.

0b1183c1cb9a03cb6dad93cb60926f6e

on August 10, 2013
at 12:23 AM

Yeah, but it's still one guy. That one guy can't speak for the demographics.

1
76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

on August 08, 2013
at 10:55 AM

What level of hell are you currently living in VB to make you want to try this? I know you've spoken before of differing aliments you???ve had, but, what is still happening that you think this may help to correct?

Truth.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 08, 2013
at 01:29 PM

I am still very tired and fatigued on some days and cannot pinpoint the reason. I am thinking doing the glucose-intolerance test.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on August 08, 2013
at 06:38 PM

I felt great after the immunologist treatment, and after re-introducing some junk food it went back to what it was before. Now if I eat potatoes and other carbs I feel great, but I gain weight, but if I stop eating potatoes, I lose weight and feel lousy.

76026e8ef496039d5075440ff731aa0d

(5386)

on August 08, 2013
at 02:01 PM

Are you more, less, or the same as far as fatigue goes than say, a year ago?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on August 09, 2013
at 12:38 PM

Tiredness and fatigue aren't diagnostics for T2. And controlling high blood sugar after diagnosis I cut sugars and starches severely, including potatoes and rice along with bread, pastries and breakfast cereal.

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