1

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Is insulin resistance, and possibly leptin resistance the root cause of Neolithic disease?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 30, 2013 at 10:55 PM

And if not then why is it associated with nearly every modern Neolithic disease?



Well I've looked around and it seems that most diseases or illnesses have a root in insulin resistance or leptin resistance, if you don't believe me post an illness/disease and I'll post a study showing it being correlated with insulin or leptin resistance. My question is, are these Diseases of civilization caused by insulin resistance or is something else causing insulin resistance and Neolithic disease?

See http://paleohacks.com/questions/166504/the-hands-down-ultimate-hack#axzz2JTYfuafs for some basic studies correlating insulin resistance to different ailments/diseases.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

use the force, lmao. I'd also rather use metrics for health improvement, spot on m8.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 01, 2013
at 02:25 PM

And saying "follow the phenomenology" is the same as saying "use the force". Great theatrical device, but I'll continue to use the metrics for health improvement.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 01, 2013
at 01:41 PM

raydawg my point was that using a three dollar word without explaining it in context is about as useful as phrenology.

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on January 31, 2013
at 07:07 PM

Thanks for the website but I'm sero negative HLA-b27 :/. Stephen - it probably has to do something with prolonged cortisol release and inflammation caused by the diet. The whole body is connected so it's a lot more complex question that one specfic reason for why. The whole nuero-endo-immune connection is not something that's looked at by all doctors.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on January 31, 2013
at 04:31 PM

You're in front of a computer, google words you don't know! For Crom's sake, here, I'll do it for you! Lazy kids these days! phenomenology |fiˌnäməˈnäləjē| nounPhilosophy the science of phenomena as distinct from that of the nature of being. an approach that concentrates on the study of consciousness and the objects of direct experience.

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on January 31, 2013
at 03:54 PM

Metrics are good and all, but just because something isn't measurable doesn't mean it's not the cause. It just may be hard to define.

62fafa8cb15af7c562fa8c270f7b6174

(619)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:52 PM

Correlation =/= Causation, but I realize your question is beyond simple math. I'm beginning to believe our over sized brains developed in response to the lost battle in our bellies.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:36 PM

Where's the metric? If there was a definitive test for one's degree of leaky guttedness I'd give it some credence. Until then it lurks in the shadows with phrenology. I can take action on metrics but not on suppositions.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:27 PM

Sedentary lifestyle has far worse effects than lack of Vitamin D. You can Neolithically supplement your way out of that. You can't supplement your way out of low HDL and high systolic blood pressure. Those are better treated by living a Paleo hunt-and-gather lifestyle.

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on January 31, 2013
at 01:53 PM

I agree with this. Chronic (not acute) stress, whether at pyschological/bodily/cellular levels (they're all linked anyway) is arguably the root 'cause' of disease. The utility of saying this might not be so good when counterposed with understanding and stating the mechanisms through which stress causes disease though.

75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac

(2506)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:24 PM

I agree with your leaky gut idea.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:04 PM

I definitely agree that modern lifestyle facilitates modern disease but I want to know WHY?? I think there is probably a third variable problem that causes both, or even several third variable problems, like grains and chronic stress for example. I think what you said about acute stressors was interesting have you heard of Todd Becker or hormesis?

A402a961303d312055dc0b253f29deac

(320)

on January 31, 2013
at 10:22 AM

Have you taken a look at the London Ankylosing Spondylitis diet (http://www.kickas.org/)? It is a diet designed by the Ebringer group at King's college years ago ... looks so paleo :-D

A402a961303d312055dc0b253f29deac

(320)

on January 31, 2013
at 10:18 AM

Stephen, the article you cited does not show any cause-effect relationship. Phenomenology means repeated observation without looking for the one, big, underlying cause. It's at the root of discovery. Most researchers love to spread the "science -> applied science -> widespread application" myth. Funny thing is, for a lot of inventions, you can find the exact other way around (cf. Taleb, 2011). Theory-free observation *precedes* theory.

Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on January 31, 2013
at 06:22 AM

you don't need to justify your -1. i don't really care.

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on January 31, 2013
at 05:39 AM

Sorry but your last paragraph I could not disagree more with. It is this "researching" that leads us to paleo and other methods of improving our health. These theories are what causes humanity itself to think rather then going with mainstream medicine. As a phD/md I'm disappointed that of all people you would say something like that as your whole profession roots from theories and research of all whom may not be labelled "researchers" as you so call it.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:53 AM

-1 only because I don't feel like you answer the question or add to the conversation by just saying "is this a 'come at me, bro' post?".

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:51 AM

A "come at me bro post" would be if I said that insulin resistance causes these things, that's not what I'm asking, I want to know why these things are correlated in pretty much every case I've found. I'm open to third variable suggestions especially if they're supported by data, inflammation or grains or empty carbs or antinutrients could all be possible third variable causes and I'd like to get PH's opinion on the matter.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:48 AM

Insulin Resistance and Leptin Resistance are correlated with a ton of maladies. I want to know why this is. Does being leptin resistant or insulin resistant cause these maladies or is there a realistic third variable problem (such as grains possibly being the source of both)? Since insulin/leptin resistance are associated with modern Neolithic diseases there should be a reason for this, is it because they cause Neolithic diseases, third variable, or both? umad bro? Lol... http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23214554.jpg

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:42 AM

Insulin Resistance and Leptin Resistance are correlated with a ton of maladies. I want to know why this is. Does being leptin resistant or insulin resistant cause these maladies or is there a realistic third variable problem (such as grains possibly being the source of both)? Since insulin/leptin resistance are associated with modern Neolithic diseases there should be a reason for this, is it because they cause Neolithic diseases, third variable, or both? umad bro? Lol...

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:11 AM

I've only had good insulin resistance scoring done for the last two years, but the 200 fasting blood sugar, 8 A1C and T2 diabetes diagnosis was enough of an indicator of insulin resistance for me to take responsive action 6 years ago. After losing weight by controlling eating and exercising more my last LP-IR score was 5 (45 is the high action limit). I could very well have been insulin resistant well before 6 years ago, but treating all the above root cause behaviors I listed cured my insulin resistance.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 01:20 AM

@mathgirl72, and it also predates your leptin resistance?

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on January 31, 2013
at 01:15 AM

I have been obese since age 8. I became insulin resistant at 38. So, yes, MY obesity predates my IR by 30 years.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:46 AM

You became obese before becoming insulin/leptin resistant or you became obese as you became insulin/leptin resistant? (do you have tests from thru out the process?). Being sedetary increases insulin resistance dramatically in healthy volunteers: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596308/ in just a matter of days.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:43 AM

Is phenomenology akin to phrenology? Not familiar with the term.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:14 AM

I will say it looks like Rheumatoid arthritic individuals are severely insulin resistant though:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000991201000055X . So if insulin resistanc isn't causing this, then something should be causing both of these things. I'm interested in this stuff which is why I bother with the research. It's a major hobby of mine.

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6 Answers

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3
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on January 31, 2013
at 04:54 AM

I don't disagree with your statement, but I'd posit that you can't prove it and it may likely not be the root cause.

One other possibility is that the root cause is leaky gut, which causes both an inflammatory and autoimmune response which can drive insulin resistance which drives leptin resistance.

I'd be comfortable saying that insulin and/or leptin resistance show up with just about any disease of civilization. But I'm not comfortable saying that it's the cause.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:36 PM

Where's the metric? If there was a definitive test for one's degree of leaky guttedness I'd give it some credence. Until then it lurks in the shadows with phrenology. I can take action on metrics but not on suppositions.

510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on January 31, 2013
at 03:54 PM

Metrics are good and all, but just because something isn't measurable doesn't mean it's not the cause. It just may be hard to define.

75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac

(2506)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:24 PM

I agree with your leaky gut idea.

5
A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

on January 31, 2013
at 04:33 AM

Ankylosing spondylapathy, tinea versicolor, cholinergic urticaria. Three conditions I have, and I'm not really insulin resisitant (There's no clear resistant or sensitive side, it varys)

The cause of all our diseases? LIFESTYLE

  • Eating foods that yes can cause blood sugar to spike to quickly, processed food

    Sedentary lifestyle leading to lack of Vitamin D

    Antibiotics

    STRESS STRESS STRESS, caveman had short burst of stress which released cortisol to surpress inflamation but when we get stressed for a long period of time it burns out our adrenals. This stress isn't just running from a lion for 30 seconds but instead perceived prolonged stress from things like due dates, work, financials, etc.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:27 PM

Sedentary lifestyle has far worse effects than lack of Vitamin D. You can Neolithically supplement your way out of that. You can't supplement your way out of low HDL and high systolic blood pressure. Those are better treated by living a Paleo hunt-and-gather lifestyle.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:04 PM

I definitely agree that modern lifestyle facilitates modern disease but I want to know WHY?? I think there is probably a third variable problem that causes both, or even several third variable problems, like grains and chronic stress for example. I think what you said about acute stressors was interesting have you heard of Todd Becker or hormesis?

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on January 31, 2013
at 07:07 PM

Thanks for the website but I'm sero negative HLA-b27 :/. Stephen - it probably has to do something with prolonged cortisol release and inflammation caused by the diet. The whole body is connected so it's a lot more complex question that one specfic reason for why. The whole nuero-endo-immune connection is not something that's looked at by all doctors.

A402a961303d312055dc0b253f29deac

(320)

on January 31, 2013
at 10:22 AM

Have you taken a look at the London Ankylosing Spondylitis diet (http://www.kickas.org/)? It is a diet designed by the Ebringer group at King's college years ago ... looks so paleo :-D

Eed7dabde3d61910685845e04605267f

(2934)

on January 31, 2013
at 01:53 PM

I agree with this. Chronic (not acute) stress, whether at pyschological/bodily/cellular levels (they're all linked anyway) is arguably the root 'cause' of disease. The utility of saying this might not be so good when counterposed with understanding and stating the mechanisms through which stress causes disease though.

3
24c27817ad9ac518946dda4a131737b5

on January 31, 2013
at 03:47 AM

Not the root cause, necessarily.

But because it is the body's energy system - upon which all the cells of the body depend - a malfunction may lead to an infinitude of downstream problems elsewhere. This certainly seems to be the case with insulin resistance.

3
Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:40 AM

Not in my case. I had to become obese before I became insulin resistant.

What made me obese was overeating (especially highly rewarding carb/fat processed foods like cookies and pizza) and being sedentary (from sitting in front of a computer and riding in motor vehicles). So those would be my root causes.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:11 AM

I've only had good insulin resistance scoring done for the last two years, but the 200 fasting blood sugar, 8 A1C and T2 diabetes diagnosis was enough of an indicator of insulin resistance for me to take responsive action 6 years ago. After losing weight by controlling eating and exercising more my last LP-IR score was 5 (45 is the high action limit). I could very well have been insulin resistant well before 6 years ago, but treating all the above root cause behaviors I listed cured my insulin resistance.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 01:20 AM

@mathgirl72, and it also predates your leptin resistance?

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on January 31, 2013
at 01:15 AM

I have been obese since age 8. I became insulin resistant at 38. So, yes, MY obesity predates my IR by 30 years.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:46 AM

You became obese before becoming insulin/leptin resistant or you became obese as you became insulin/leptin resistant? (do you have tests from thru out the process?). Being sedetary increases insulin resistance dramatically in healthy volunteers: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596308/ in just a matter of days.

3
A402a961303d312055dc0b253f29deac

(320)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:04 AM

This one is a complicated one. I would love to have an easy answer to Western Disease, but there isn't one. The effects of processed food, grains and grain-fed industrial meat are more complex than just one hormone.

Let me put it this way: Though you may find a correlation between virtually every entity of Western Disease and insulin/leptin resistance doesn't mean it is the only causative physiological process.

Take, for example, Rheumathoid Arthritis (RA), which very often gets better when going paleo. It is an autoimmune process most likely triggered through an overgrowth of Proteus mirabilis bacteria in conjunction with unfavorable genetics (HLA-DR1/4). Western Diet gives that bacteria a chance to grow with our guts and bladders through constant starch feeding and grain lectins in a grain-induced leaky gut. So, people with RA are already on a bad diet, and some of them most likely will display the laboratory finding of insulin resistance. But did insulin resistance cause the RA? No.

Physiology is a complicated and harsh mistress. But instead of soothing your soul with theory, I suggest you follow the phenomenology. Paleo makes quite a lot of sense and it helps a large percentage of people. So why bother with theory all day if you're not a researcher?

(sidenote: MD/PhD speaking)

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on January 31, 2013
at 04:31 PM

You're in front of a computer, google words you don't know! For Crom's sake, here, I'll do it for you! Lazy kids these days! phenomenology |fiˌnäməˈnäləjē| nounPhilosophy the science of phenomena as distinct from that of the nature of being. an approach that concentrates on the study of consciousness and the objects of direct experience.

A402a961303d312055dc0b253f29deac

(320)

on January 31, 2013
at 10:18 AM

Stephen, the article you cited does not show any cause-effect relationship. Phenomenology means repeated observation without looking for the one, big, underlying cause. It's at the root of discovery. Most researchers love to spread the "science -> applied science -> widespread application" myth. Funny thing is, for a lot of inventions, you can find the exact other way around (cf. Taleb, 2011). Theory-free observation *precedes* theory.

A5127d60bca783084f191f38ffa357a6

(687)

on January 31, 2013
at 05:39 AM

Sorry but your last paragraph I could not disagree more with. It is this "researching" that leads us to paleo and other methods of improving our health. These theories are what causes humanity itself to think rather then going with mainstream medicine. As a phD/md I'm disappointed that of all people you would say something like that as your whole profession roots from theories and research of all whom may not be labelled "researchers" as you so call it.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 01, 2013
at 02:25 PM

And saying "follow the phenomenology" is the same as saying "use the force". Great theatrical device, but I'll continue to use the metrics for health improvement.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:14 AM

I will say it looks like Rheumatoid arthritic individuals are severely insulin resistant though:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000991201000055X . So if insulin resistanc isn't causing this, then something should be causing both of these things. I'm interested in this stuff which is why I bother with the research. It's a major hobby of mine.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

use the force, lmao. I'd also rather use metrics for health improvement, spot on m8.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on January 31, 2013
at 12:43 AM

Is phenomenology akin to phrenology? Not familiar with the term.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on February 01, 2013
at 01:41 PM

raydawg my point was that using a three dollar word without explaining it in context is about as useful as phrenology.

-1
Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:28 AM

is this a 'come at me, bro' post?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:48 AM

Insulin Resistance and Leptin Resistance are correlated with a ton of maladies. I want to know why this is. Does being leptin resistant or insulin resistant cause these maladies or is there a realistic third variable problem (such as grains possibly being the source of both)? Since insulin/leptin resistance are associated with modern Neolithic diseases there should be a reason for this, is it because they cause Neolithic diseases, third variable, or both? umad bro? Lol... http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23214554.jpg

Ee6932fe54ad68039a8d5f7a8caa0468

(2668)

on January 31, 2013
at 06:22 AM

you don't need to justify your -1. i don't really care.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:42 AM

Insulin Resistance and Leptin Resistance are correlated with a ton of maladies. I want to know why this is. Does being leptin resistant or insulin resistant cause these maladies or is there a realistic third variable problem (such as grains possibly being the source of both)? Since insulin/leptin resistance are associated with modern Neolithic diseases there should be a reason for this, is it because they cause Neolithic diseases, third variable, or both? umad bro? Lol...

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:51 AM

A "come at me bro post" would be if I said that insulin resistance causes these things, that's not what I'm asking, I want to know why these things are correlated in pretty much every case I've found. I'm open to third variable suggestions especially if they're supported by data, inflammation or grains or empty carbs or antinutrients could all be possible third variable causes and I'd like to get PH's opinion on the matter.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 31, 2013
at 02:53 AM

-1 only because I don't feel like you answer the question or add to the conversation by just saying "is this a 'come at me, bro' post?".

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