3

votes

Tired after eating/high inflammation/healing gut/food allergies?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created July 28, 2010 at 1:31 AM

Im guessing that perhaps Im having an issue with my gut lining.

I was diagnosed with multiple food allergies before I went Paleo. The test was suspect though as the only foods that came up were also the foods that I was eating.

Ive now been Paleo for around 8 months and although Im better I still get tired, stiff neck/back, and light headache after eating. This was especially true after eating pork and chicken but Im also now noticing it after eating red meat. I eat red meat often so its like Im developing a sensitivity to it. I eat conventional meat but then I also supplement with around 10 grams of fish oil a day.

I know my tiredness, and aches are food related as Ive been doing the Martin Burkhan type daily fasting and feel GREAT in the time running up to my first meal (at 1:00 PM). Then I tank after the first meal of the day. This meal is almost always; some sort of green vegetable cooked in grass fed butter with sea salt and red meat cooked in grass fed butter with some sea salt and black pepper. I also snack on coconut oil sometimes when cooking. I know its not from eating too much as Im often still slightly hungry afterwords.

What is happening here? Any ideas on how to fix it? Ive pretty much felt this way but much worse for over a decade (since I hit teenage years) and although better since going Paleo am still frustratingly feeling like crap daily.

If it helps;

Diagnosed with low serotonin, low dopamine, high histamine (inflammation), lowest glutamate level they've ever seen. This was from a neurotransmitter test about 1.5 months ago.

Supplements; Vitamin D3 (5K), Carlson's fish oil (10 g), Probiotics, Natural Calm (before bed), B-Complex, Norwegian Kelp, L-Arginine, Vitamin K (100 mg).

Random; I took antibiotics and accutane throughout my teens to combat acne. I was a latch key kid so I grew up on microwave meals and milk. Been eating well for 1.5 + yrs and paleo around 8 months.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on August 06, 2010
at 12:31 AM

I've been eating grass fed beef with some sea salt and kale the last few days, does this count as bland enough?

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 02, 2010
at 06:04 PM

... self-medication for some sort of infection/overgrowth (I do know that sheep do this!).

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 02, 2010
at 05:58 PM

Seb, I've found the same thing with 'snake oil' salesmen, hence my previous dismissal of them, I can see I'll have to look into the matter. I do seem to recall reading something about either bromelaine or the one taken from papaya being quite bad for health, but will check it out. I know I didn't have H. Pylori before I got the PPI's, but who's to say about afterwards! My gut is irritated by absolutely anything, I've not encountered any-one as tannin-sensitive as me, which is a shame because I'm addicted to anything tannic. I have wondered whether it might be a form of automatic...

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 02, 2010
at 01:27 AM

...Ground for bad bacteria (especially H. Pylori, a bacteria that causes ulcers). I would definitely look into that if I where you. Maybe try a Betaine HCI supplement when eating large meals as well as focusing on getting high amounts of good bacteria. I think slow digestion more often than not is associated with low stomach acid, but normally the acidity returns to normal when the flora is healthy without the need for things like betaine HCI so this supplement would only be temporary. Anyway, feel free to shoot me an email through my website and I would be happy to discuss it in more details.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 02, 2010
at 01:22 AM

Hey David, unfortunately I haven't read or learned anything that ended up being very informative online about enzymes. It's just too full of snake oil salesmen. The thing I can say though is that they really work and digest a part of your food for you. Bromelain is extracted from pineapples and helps digest proteins and is a natural anti-inflammatory (really worked with me). All those, especially betaine HCI have the potential to irritate a fragile gut/stomach though. If you had PPI in the past, I think chances are good that your stomach acid is low and I low stomach acid is a good breeding...

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 31, 2010
at 06:22 PM

Thanks Seb, I must say I've never really looked into supplementing digestive enzymes. Do you know of a good introductory source of information. I've always been sceptical of general talk of "enzymes" in general, I suspect due to the association with the raw food movement. I used to have reflux and proton-pump-inhibitors, but not had anything like that of late. In fact I wondered whether my problem my generally be a lack of stomach acid.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on July 31, 2010
at 02:58 AM

@David, have you tried digestive enzymes or bromelain and papaya or bile salt supplements? Your pancreas might have become lazy in its production of digestive enzymes. Maybe it could also be about your stomach acidity, to you suffer from any acid reflux? My own digestion was extremely slow when I was eating a raw food diet, then came back to normal and then has gone worse since my gut flora has gone haywire and is now very slow. I also know that bad gut flora can effect you even when food is in the stomach. For example, gastritis can be caused by a candida overgrowth.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on July 31, 2010
at 02:28 AM

@Matthew It's called Herxheimer reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction) and causes all sorts of reactions. I've been dealing with those reactions for the last 12 or so years of my life and know very well what it feels like.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 30, 2010
at 04:37 PM

I also wouldn't worry too much about having 10g fish oil. I don't know the stats for carlson's, since I can only find the capsules online, but for the 'super strength' fish oil I use, 10g oil only = 2.714g omega 3 = 414mg DHA, 644mg EPA. That not a huge amount, it would barely balance out the omega 3 in 100g of butter. That does suggest of course, than generally salmon beats fish oil (3-5g o-3 per tin and more absorbable). I second every-one saying that wild amounts (more than 3:1 o-3:o-6 over an extended period) would be a bad idea, but I doubt you're doing that.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on July 30, 2010
at 11:29 AM

Why would bacteria dying cause symptoms?

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on July 29, 2010
at 03:10 AM

Well, if a person repeatedly feels sick right after eating, that is a good clue that there is something about the processing of that meal that is not going right. COuld be the meal or could be the processing mechanism, or both. Might want to eating only single things at each meal and see if you can find anything that does not cause the neg side effects. This could also be a clue.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 29, 2010
at 01:15 AM

Thanks Nicole, I'll check it out :-)

9f1c368e3e31781918961f5d137d7b2a

(190)

on July 28, 2010
at 10:40 PM

The Eades Protein Power Lifeplan has a chapter on leaky gut and healing it. It might be useful for you

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:09 PM

I did read that but since my issue is inflammation I continue the higher dose

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:07 PM

It's also not related to my blood glucose level. I don't feel light headed after I eat, I get a stiff neck, back and headache after I eat. I've had blood glucose tested and it's fine (I used to get light headed pre Paleo).

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:03 PM

As I said in the post I've had these issues fo over a decade. 14 yrs to be exact. I've been IFing for 1 week so it's not related. I've been tested for hypoglycemia and I don't have it. My thyroid is fine and my liver is too. I'm not repeatedly hitting my head on the wall as I've been trying different thnys trying to figure it out. I don't eat Paleo for body comp issues I eat it because I'm trying not to feel like crap.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on July 28, 2010
at 01:29 PM

I don't know of a way to enter line breaks in comments. Does anybody else know?

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on July 28, 2010
at 01:28 PM

That said, I think that message has gotten kinda lost sometimes.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on July 28, 2010
at 01:28 PM

Robb is on record noting that the high-dose recommendation is generally only for newbies or people with inflammation issues or people who do not eat primarily grass-fed. He is generally in favor of tapering down the dose when insulin/inflammation seem to be under control (as measured by body composition, joint issues, etc.) and grass-fed is the primary meat source. He's even gone so far as to suggest that fish oil might not even be necessary if you eat a lot of oily fish and only grass-fed (and if you are already lean and healthy, etc.) Pretty reasonable IMO.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 28, 2010
at 01:00 PM

This is pretty much the only thing I disagree with Rob on. For someone with stomach issues, that much (probably rancid) fish oil is going to be a big problem.

3eafb88d6a6d762fcfa8ed4eb0576260

(642)

on July 28, 2010
at 06:29 AM

Well, I think Robb may be a little over-enthusiastic about it. Chris Masterjohn has also sounded the alarm on this issue; see, for example, http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/PUFA-Special-Report.html

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:07 AM

Thanks, Im going to order some of this and some glutamine. Ive heard Robb mention it many times too and plan on trying it out

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:05 AM

Not according to Robb Wolf. Check out this link to his fish oil calculator. I weigh in the low 190s...http://whole9life.com/fish-oil/

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on July 28, 2010
at 03:55 AM

I agree that 10gm is too much fish oil. Dr. Kurt Harris takes one tsp. of Carlson's cod liver oil (about 1/2gm DHA + 1/2gm EPA) on days when he indulges in significant omega-6 PUFAs ( http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/13/what-i-eat.html ).

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on July 28, 2010
at 03:49 AM

Wow, interesting article. I wonder if this is another case of people trying to take a pill to replicate a food and having it backfire. Taking a fish oil pill may simply not be a good substitute for eating a lot of fresh fish. Plus the fish in the store can't hold a candle to delicious fresh caught fish.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 28, 2010
at 03:41 AM

Yeah, I'd use a lot less and buy only the refrigerated stuff. Or just eat fish...

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 28, 2010
at 03:41 AM

L-lysine might be a good idea too

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 03:10 AM

I weigh in the low 190s.....http://whole9life.com/fish-oil/

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:35 AM

im way more energetic before I eat... but I dont get necessarily tired after, just less motivated.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:11 AM

I think that they are related to my body's reaction to food as the inflammation level is also high (histamine). I feel more inflamed after eating a lot of foods. Right now I notice it most after eating protein sources (eggs, meat, etc..)

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:07 AM

Ahhh sorry. I spaced out those comments so that they were legible but when I hit enter they all mushed together.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:07 AM

It was a blood test (E95 and A95 food panel). Tested significant allergy to were; cows dairy/cheese, wheat/gluten/rye/spelt, almonds, egg whites/egg yolk, pineapple, mushroom, and yogurt Tested moderate allergy to (should not eat more than once every 4 days) were; Beef, some cow cheeses (others tested significant allergy), kidney/pinto bean (was fine w/ other beans), honey (I was eating bee pollen at the time), watercress, ginger (was eating at the time) The food I was eating at the time was; beef, eggs, dairy, yogurt, ginger, bee pollen, mushrooms, grains & all of these came up positive

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15 Answers

7
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 28, 2010
at 03:58 AM

One of my maxims is that you can't cancel out shit with fish oil. It doesn't work. Excess PUFAs of all kinds, yes even O3, cause oxidation and other forms of stress. Plus, do you think the hormones and other possible contaminants in conventional meat are good for leaky gut? If you have to eat less meat to buy good meat, than do it. Fasting might also not be a great choose??? sounds like your body is awash in stress hormones anyway and that just increases cortisol.

Your goal is NOT to lose weight, but to heal. Try eating regular consistent meals, dialing up the calories to keep those stress hormones low. Stop consuming rancid fish oil and start eating some wild fish, a few ounces a day. Stop eating conventional meat and start buying meat from grass-finished ruminants and supplementing it with yams. Invest in a good refrigerated commercial probiotic. Try going without dairy for awhile until you are not getting these issues.

In cases like this I would actually avoid fermented foods and spicy stuff. They can be helpful, but they are like machine guns. A commercial probiotic is more predictable.

I've had issues like this before and I've been able to resolve them by bumping up the quality and quantity of food.

Also, like others mentioned, a bland diet might help. If I get into a stomach irritation cycle (thankfullly not lately), I often end up eating a diet of mostly bone broths made in my crock pot with egg yolks.

3
13c5a9f1678d75b93f269cdcf69f14d5

(2339)

on August 02, 2010
at 03:29 AM

So the idea is that you ate the SAD, took antibiotics and now you're in a leaky gut situation. Or are you celiac and just don't know it?

The Cooling Inflammation blog has some ideas on how to correct the gut issue.

Here are some things you can try, in no particular order. I think many of the suggestions above are good (broth, glutamine, stress), but you're going to have to try several of them. This is unlikely to be a one-off fix.

But if it were, the most likely candidate would be gluten. The next most likely, statistically, is casein. Have you challenged gluten since you started Paleo? If your reaction was negative, be sure that your kitchen and supplements are GF. http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-essentials-of-sharing-a-kitchen-with-gluten.html

Getting the casein out of your current impeccable diet is pretty simple, but not cheap. Just swap out the grass fed butter for grass fed ghee. http://www.pureindianfoods.com/

One way to test your supplements for all sorts of problems is to stop taking them for at least 4 days and then add one back each week. I'd test them in this order: Vitamin D3 (5K), B-Complex, Carlson's fish oil (at a reduced dose), Natural Calm.

I'm not sure you need the L-arginine or the K. I think the probiotics can wait for awhile. Several people on the glutenzap board report improving dramatically once they ditched the supplements.

Your headaches may be atypical migraines. The best description I've seen for this is in a book that focused on diet modification to eliminate headaches and migraine: http://www.amazon.com/Heal-Your-Headache-Program-Taking/dp/0761125663/

As a temporary measure, here's a specialized enzyme product that targets histamines: http://histame.com/ I have no idea if this product is gluten free.

Gluten free enzymes http://www.houston-enzymes.com/

If you think you may be having problems with glutamates, check out the fail safe diet. Glutatamate could be an issue if you have more severe symptoms with leftovers or aged meats, such as game.

Glad to hear your thyroid is ok. If these issues run in your family, be sure you had the full panel done, including an rT3. Here's an interesting article on thyroid and gut: http://thehealthyskeptic.org/the-thyroid-gut-connection

What is your vitamin D level?

The food intolerance tests are known for false positives, but they can give you a place to start. Here's a good book for planning an elimination diet and challenge: http://www.amazon.com/Dealing-Food-Allergies-Practical-Detecting/dp/092352164X/ref=pd_sim_b_2 The Brostoff book is also good. If you're still having trouble, look into the 4 day rotation diet as proposed by Theron Randolph.

If you do identify intolerances, many of these are likely to be temporary. plan to test again at 6 months or a year. (Any food I like gets another test!)

If you challenge eggs, be sure to challenge yolks and whites separately. The Joneja book discusses this in detail. Her methods are designed primarily for true allergies, (sudden, severe reactions) but will work for intolerances (delayed reactions).

Just our of curiosity, what sort of grains were you eating when the tests where done?

Do you have a dishwasher? What brand of dish soap do you use? (humor me, I realize this is a strange question!)

Check back and tell us how it is going.

I am glad you are seeing some improvements with the Paleo diet, but if it is gluten, it could take awhile before you feel better. You've had this problem for quite a long time now. And if it is celiac, you may need to be incredibly vigilant to get the sort of improvements your hard work deserves. The disruption to your serotonin levels point toward to gluten, in my experience. I believe you've mentioned mood issues in previous posts?

2
55187c79855f6cd12b2280efce753345

on December 08, 2010
at 08:29 PM

one more thing about the original posters comments.

Serotonin and Dopamine are decreased (along with other neurotransmitters) via the H3 Histamine Receptor when too much histamine is present. This can be due to the gut lining being irritated by food intolerances or an infection (parasite, bacteria or yeast).

This isn't simply the whole picture, but it seems to be the clearest piece of information I've read, dealing with mood issues and gut issues together.

Histamine itself can cause gut irritation. Some people think it is one food or another causing them problems when the find out that it is foods high in Histamine that are doing it. Especially when dizziness is present.

Finally, Fish Oil whether you love it or hate it, it is very high in histamine and can directly cause alot of the original posters issues. Vitamin B12 and Folic acid also increase histamine greatly.

Magnesium is extremely important to lower this. Also, Turmeric in a form that is easily absorbed has Anti-Inflammatory and Anti-Histamine properties and can help.

Is is fully up to yourself if you want to take anything, but at least take a look into this and see if it is relevant to yourself, James

2
62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on July 28, 2010
at 04:02 AM

Interesting that you tested allergic to everything you were eating. I wonder if it is a case of leaky gut and the food you are eating is getting into places that it does not belong, like into the blood stream. Then the body makes antibodies to those things.

One thing to try is eating super bland food for 3 days and see if that helps. I have seen various version of the bland diet, but when I do it, I have a very short list that has become even shorter now that I am paleo. I eat boiled unseasoned chicken, apple sauce with no additives (no sugar, no apple juice concentrate, just apples) and bananas. I used to include unsalted crackers and white rice but those are not paleo. However, if I got really sick and had to do this again, I might consider some of the white rice just for variety. Everyone I know who has tried the 3 day bland diet has shown marked improvement if not full recovery after 3 days. Probs were always bad digestion/nausea/sickness type probs that would not go away and were getting progressively worse. No one has ever shown any bad effects as of yet, although if you have blood sugar issues, you may need to eat less banana and apple sauce and more chicken. Of course, most of these people were eating SAD before the 3 day bland so I don't know if the 3 day bland was the kicker or just the avoidance of SAD. Anyway, might be worth a shot and if you feel better after 3 days, this will be a clue. Obviously, you are not going to want to eat just 3 things for the rest of your life, but for many people, it gives the gut a chance to recover and clarifies that the issue was digestive and not something else.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on August 06, 2010
at 12:31 AM

I've been eating grass fed beef with some sea salt and kale the last few days, does this count as bland enough?

2
3eafb88d6a6d762fcfa8ed4eb0576260

on July 28, 2010
at 03:00 AM

That is an insane and unnatural amount of fish oil. Many have warned that it is not so healthy after all. See, for example, this article.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on July 28, 2010
at 03:49 AM

Wow, interesting article. I wonder if this is another case of people trying to take a pill to replicate a food and having it backfire. Taking a fish oil pill may simply not be a good substitute for eating a lot of fresh fish. Plus the fish in the store can't hold a candle to delicious fresh caught fish.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 28, 2010
at 01:00 PM

This is pretty much the only thing I disagree with Rob on. For someone with stomach issues, that much (probably rancid) fish oil is going to be a big problem.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on July 28, 2010
at 01:28 PM

Robb is on record noting that the high-dose recommendation is generally only for newbies or people with inflammation issues or people who do not eat primarily grass-fed. He is generally in favor of tapering down the dose when insulin/inflammation seem to be under control (as measured by body composition, joint issues, etc.) and grass-fed is the primary meat source. He's even gone so far as to suggest that fish oil might not even be necessary if you eat a lot of oily fish and only grass-fed (and if you are already lean and healthy, etc.) Pretty reasonable IMO.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 28, 2010
at 03:41 AM

Yeah, I'd use a lot less and buy only the refrigerated stuff. Or just eat fish...

3eafb88d6a6d762fcfa8ed4eb0576260

(642)

on July 28, 2010
at 06:29 AM

Well, I think Robb may be a little over-enthusiastic about it. Chris Masterjohn has also sounded the alarm on this issue; see, for example, http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/PUFA-Special-Report.html

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 03:10 AM

I weigh in the low 190s.....http://whole9life.com/fish-oil/

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on July 28, 2010
at 01:28 PM

That said, I think that message has gotten kinda lost sometimes.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 30, 2010
at 04:37 PM

I also wouldn't worry too much about having 10g fish oil. I don't know the stats for carlson's, since I can only find the capsules online, but for the 'super strength' fish oil I use, 10g oil only = 2.714g omega 3 = 414mg DHA, 644mg EPA. That not a huge amount, it would barely balance out the omega 3 in 100g of butter. That does suggest of course, than generally salmon beats fish oil (3-5g o-3 per tin and more absorbable). I second every-one saying that wild amounts (more than 3:1 o-3:o-6 over an extended period) would be a bad idea, but I doubt you're doing that.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:05 AM

Not according to Robb Wolf. Check out this link to his fish oil calculator. I weigh in the low 190s...http://whole9life.com/fish-oil/

6426d61a13689f8f651164b10f121d64

(11488)

on July 28, 2010
at 03:55 AM

I agree that 10gm is too much fish oil. Dr. Kurt Harris takes one tsp. of Carlson's cod liver oil (about 1/2gm DHA + 1/2gm EPA) on days when he indulges in significant omega-6 PUFAs ( http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/11/13/what-i-eat.html ).

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:09 PM

I did read that but since my issue is inflammation I continue the higher dose

1
55187c79855f6cd12b2280efce753345

on December 08, 2010
at 08:17 PM

I'm not sure if this is even looked at by the original poster anymore, but I thought I might post for anyone else that reads this.

Get a stool sample done by a lab that tests for parasites. A 3-Day stool sample with fixative ( the fixative is used to preserve the parasites until the lab gets the sample). Yes, it doesn't sound pleasant, but you will most likely get the answer you need.

'IBS' is just some lame excuse for doctors not knowing what is going on with your gut. It IS NOT all in your head, at all. More likely is that whatever is going on in your head, is Caused by your gut.

If you look at current research, or read some of the better forums you'll see that everyone who is currently having success with IBS has found a CAUSE. Not simply adapting their eating, ....although this is important as well.

If you have 'IBS' (with or without mood issues) or food intolerances that continue to pop up (first gluten, then dairy! then corn and soy! Now I can eat nothing!), Even if your Celiac and continue to get worse after removing Gluten.

GET A STOOL TEST DONE BY A PROPER LAB.

Find one that does a '3-Day Sample with fixative' and specifically looks for Blastocystis Hominis and Dientamoeba Fragilis. Chances are you have one of the two, or both. They are NOT harmless, like your doctor (who really doesn't know what he is talking about, in this case) may think, you can even read something as simple as Wikipedia to see this. Then do yourself a favor and read about them both by searching 'badbugs' on google. That sites sells nothing, it is just information from a long term sufferer.

The two bugs are a massive problem, in fact, almost everyone that I've met with 'IBS' -who has ever been tested- has one or both of them. I will say that it is naturally not the cause 100% of the times, but it is the cause Far too often to ignore.

if and when you decide to get treatment. You can try the herbal route, that is your choice. But I will unfortunately say that herbal never fully solved the problem for me, and I have never heard of it completely killing off either parasite. Your doctor may also tell you to take Flagyl, but this horrid med rarely, if even kills either of the bugs. They are hard to treat, but possible. Contact the women at 'badbugs' if you want the best combination of anti-Biotics (she will tell you FOR FREE, don't worry) to take. Then you'll have to talk to your doctor, or a ask her for a doctor that treats them to order them.

Finally, if you get tested/treated and find that this is the cause - SPREAD THE WORD! Get people informed, since the medical community is again dragging it's feet. Better testing and treatment needs to be developed. The only country that knows how to treat this is Australia for sh*ts sake. How can the US and Canada be this far behind?? I can't believe that these bugs can be ignored when you can even find them listed as a possible cause under 'wikipedia - IBS'.

James

1
0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on July 30, 2010
at 12:10 PM

I can't really give you a good answer as to what you should do. However I think you should ignore the results of the tests you have had done.

The allergy test, E95 and A95 food panels, are based on IgE and IgG antibodies. IgE is a good marker for real allergies. IgG is not and is often used by alternative health people as a marker for undefined "food intolerances". As most people will have IgG antibodies for lots of foods these people can then sell you special foods and supplements to treat the allergies you don't have and charge you for the tests. While it may be useful in certain situations it is not for screening large numbers of different foods.

Most people will end up with some IgG antibodies to the foods that they eat regularly as the immune system regularly samples what is in your gut. It is not proof that your gut is leaking. These IgG antibodies can also protect you from developing an allergy. Testing for IgG4 against foods is not recommended as a diagnostic tool.

As far as I know neurotransmitter tests are completely meaningless. Bogus Diagnostic Tests. I do not think histamine alone is a good marker for inflammation.

I would also question the fish oil supplements. Buying a quality brand it would be costing you a lot. I'd rather spend the money on some fish each week. If you are eating meat and veg you are likely not getting much omega 6. I do not know if consuming a lot more 3 than 6 is a good idea.

1
9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

on July 29, 2010
at 04:56 AM

I would cut the black pepper, cut the butter, cut the fruits, cuts the egg whites, cut the nightshades, cut goitrogenic vegetables and cut the nuts and seeds. Oh and also cut the coconut milk.

Stay there for a couple of weeks and eat a lot of broths with well cooked vegetables and lots of animal fat and pastured-meat. I would also increase the probiotic intake and have good dose of lacto-fermented vegetables (probably not cabbage though, carrots or cucumbers are good choices). See if large dose probiotics has any effect. Negative effect could be a good sign if it's die-off. To me die-off is a bit like hay-fever: headaches, sneezing, red eyes, fatigue, moaning... When die-off is in full motion my digestion and appetite is much better.

Now I know your problem is probably completely different than mine, but then again the only way to rule out food is to only eat what's known not to cause problem to almost anybody and the foods listed above have the potential to cause problems to people with a multitude of conditions.

If you feel better after a couple of weeks of eating the simplified diet, you know it's related to food and to one of those you removed and can then start testing them one at the time. I personally think nuts and seeds shouldn't be consumed by anybody and fruits should only be minimally consumed.

You have to be pretty serious about it though and stick with it 100%. I've been dealing with leaky gut/bacterial overgrowth/gastritis and now just a handful of nuts would make me feel bad for a couple of days. I even get an upset stomach from fish oil and this is why I can't recommend it to people with a serious digestive issue even if in theory it reduces inflammation.

My problem is complex and the only way I was able to get better was by trial and error over a period of 4 years and this is what lead me to the paleo diet.

If you do the steps I mentioned you could save yourself a lot of time trying to figure out what's going on.

It goes without saying that stress, sleep and other lifestyle factors are to be well balanced. What I now like to do is take a couple of days off from work whenever I feel tired and stressed. I don't care being short on money or having my boss asking questions, my health and well-being is worth way more than my job or bank account.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on July 31, 2010
at 02:28 AM

@Matthew It's called Herxheimer reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herxheimer_reaction) and causes all sorts of reactions. I've been dealing with those reactions for the last 12 or so years of my life and know very well what it feels like.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on July 30, 2010
at 11:29 AM

Why would bacteria dying cause symptoms?

0
E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 30, 2010
at 05:21 PM

If this is purely and quite directly correlated with after meals, then it sounds like it's just too much food overburdening your stomach. I often feel pretty rubbish- tired, sluggish, achy and headachy- after a heavy meal, feeling sleepy after eating a lot is quite a well known phenomenon. In my case, and possibly in yours, the problem is just a sluggish/weak digestive system. I often find that meals sit very heavily on my stomach and take hours to digest. If you're at all stressed (at least physiologically). This would definitely slow down your digestion, as the body moves all its blood supply away from the digestive system and to the extremities ready for fight or flight. This is one of the few downsides of paleo- 500g of beef takes a lot more digesting than does an equivalent amount of sugar/starch (which is of course normally a good thing. I think it's entirely possible, on such a diet to still be hungry (i.e. lacking energy) while still feeling too full to eat anything. I doubt it's anything to do with a leaky gut, bacteria or such further down in the digestive tract, since the symptoms would start later and last longer.

Alas I don't have many ideas how to solve it, if this is indeed the problem. Liberal use of ginger/spices can stimulate the digestion. Avoiding lots of water near mealtimes too. You could try eating smaller meals and see whether the symptoms are caused by eating a pound of meat at once, or by even a gram of meat hitting your digestive tract. Getting a few more calories from carbs might also help, since they're quite easily and quickly digested and can stimulate appetite; so long as you don't go overboard and eat enough carbs to put you to sleep. When I've experienced these symptoms myself I've wondered whether perhaps eating a huge amount of meat leads to a temporary loss of energy, since as well as the body having to digest it all, the insulin spike might also shift circulating fat out of the bloodstream for a while before the protein starts causing a release of glucose. Most carnivores seem to just spend most of their time sleeping after a successful hunt.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 02, 2010
at 05:58 PM

Seb, I've found the same thing with 'snake oil' salesmen, hence my previous dismissal of them, I can see I'll have to look into the matter. I do seem to recall reading something about either bromelaine or the one taken from papaya being quite bad for health, but will check it out. I know I didn't have H. Pylori before I got the PPI's, but who's to say about afterwards! My gut is irritated by absolutely anything, I've not encountered any-one as tannin-sensitive as me, which is a shame because I'm addicted to anything tannic. I have wondered whether it might be a form of automatic...

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on July 31, 2010
at 02:58 AM

@David, have you tried digestive enzymes or bromelain and papaya or bile salt supplements? Your pancreas might have become lazy in its production of digestive enzymes. Maybe it could also be about your stomach acidity, to you suffer from any acid reflux? My own digestion was extremely slow when I was eating a raw food diet, then came back to normal and then has gone worse since my gut flora has gone haywire and is now very slow. I also know that bad gut flora can effect you even when food is in the stomach. For example, gastritis can be caused by a candida overgrowth.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on August 02, 2010
at 06:04 PM

... self-medication for some sort of infection/overgrowth (I do know that sheep do this!).

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on July 31, 2010
at 06:22 PM

Thanks Seb, I must say I've never really looked into supplementing digestive enzymes. Do you know of a good introductory source of information. I've always been sceptical of general talk of "enzymes" in general, I suspect due to the association with the raw food movement. I used to have reflux and proton-pump-inhibitors, but not had anything like that of late. In fact I wondered whether my problem my generally be a lack of stomach acid.

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 02, 2010
at 01:22 AM

Hey David, unfortunately I haven't read or learned anything that ended up being very informative online about enzymes. It's just too full of snake oil salesmen. The thing I can say though is that they really work and digest a part of your food for you. Bromelain is extracted from pineapples and helps digest proteins and is a natural anti-inflammatory (really worked with me). All those, especially betaine HCI have the potential to irritate a fragile gut/stomach though. If you had PPI in the past, I think chances are good that your stomach acid is low and I low stomach acid is a good breeding...

9bc6f3df8db981f67ea1465411958c8d

(3690)

on August 02, 2010
at 01:27 AM

...Ground for bad bacteria (especially H. Pylori, a bacteria that causes ulcers). I would definitely look into that if I where you. Maybe try a Betaine HCI supplement when eating large meals as well as focusing on getting high amounts of good bacteria. I think slow digestion more often than not is associated with low stomach acid, but normally the acidity returns to normal when the flora is healthy without the need for things like betaine HCI so this supplement would only be temporary. Anyway, feel free to shoot me an email through my website and I would be happy to discuss it in more details.

0
67bc68bd0331fd160656876c8de46924

on July 28, 2010
at 02:34 PM

You're focusing on little details and not the overall picture. This is the problem people have when they blindly go for a diet without checking in with their bodies and develop their I-know-what-I-should-eat instinct.

I think going Paleo — or restricting your carbs greatly and quitting grains — makes a huge positive difference for most people, but that doesn't mean it works for everyone (not saying it doesn't for you, but you need to open your mind... Don't make the mistake of the passionate vegetarian). Also, many people do the conversion too quickly, without giving their bodies the time to relearn how to deal with the additional protein and fat.

Something that will help you greatly is LOTS of really dense bone broth. It'll provide minerals in a natural form that a leaky gut can assimilate and help rebuild glutamate, which you really need to rebuild your gut.

It's possible that you're not assimilating fat properly, because fat should provide the energy you need, but it obviously isn't. Perhaps you need a good liver and gall-bladder cleanse? This is just my intuition based on what you write. I'd need to learn more to know for sure.

Finally, not every health issue we experience is foods' fault. Your living situation might be affecting you. Can you deal positively with stress? Is there anything in your environment that could be making you sick?

Hope this helps some... Good luck on your journey :-)

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3

(20807)

on July 29, 2010
at 03:10 AM

Well, if a person repeatedly feels sick right after eating, that is a good clue that there is something about the processing of that meal that is not going right. COuld be the meal or could be the processing mechanism, or both. Might want to eating only single things at each meal and see if you can find anything that does not cause the neg side effects. This could also be a clue.

0
6eb2812b40855ba64508cbf2dc48f1b6

(2119)

on July 28, 2010
at 12:48 PM

I see a lot of posts on here lately that are basically "it hurts when I bang my head on the wall, so do you guys think I should just keep banging my head against the wall?"

You may have a seriously leaky gut, but doing IF is not going to help, especially if you're avoiding eating because you feel lousy after you eat. You should really figure out why. While food allergies can cause your symptoms too, maybe this time it's not an allergy. IF can cause cortisol issues and all your hormones need to cooperate for you to feel good.

Tiredness and headaches can be caused by hypoglycemia. Don't assume that because you're eating low carb you're not having a blood sugar problem. Protein can, especially if your body is in some distress (fasting, hormonal issues, etc) be turned into glucose.

Buy a blood glucose meter - they are cheap. Do some post-prandial tests and figure it out. The meters themselves are cheap at Wal-Mart (like $10), and Amazon has the best price on test strips and lancets.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 29, 2010
at 01:15 AM

Thanks Nicole, I'll check it out :-)

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:07 PM

It's also not related to my blood glucose level. I don't feel light headed after I eat, I get a stiff neck, back and headache after I eat. I've had blood glucose tested and it's fine (I used to get light headed pre Paleo).

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:03 PM

As I said in the post I've had these issues fo over a decade. 14 yrs to be exact. I've been IFing for 1 week so it's not related. I've been tested for hypoglycemia and I don't have it. My thyroid is fine and my liver is too. I'm not repeatedly hitting my head on the wall as I've been trying different thnys trying to figure it out. I don't eat Paleo for body comp issues I eat it because I'm trying not to feel like crap.

9f1c368e3e31781918961f5d137d7b2a

(190)

on July 28, 2010
at 10:40 PM

The Eades Protein Power Lifeplan has a chapter on leaky gut and healing it. It might be useful for you

0
35a9207254408c6907f7082640c7bfaa

(822)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:33 AM

The best part of having just one big meal a day is that you only have to deal with the unpleasant post-meal digestion effects once per 24h. Heck, sometimes a nap after eating is pretty nice. I think most people feel more energetic and less weighed down during the fast periods just like you.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:35 AM

im way more energetic before I eat... but I dont get necessarily tired after, just less motivated.

0
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on July 28, 2010
at 02:13 AM

Im gonna advise a little Robb Wolf endorsed NOW FOODS Super Enzyme.

Amazon Link, NOW FOODS Super Enzyme

tired-after-eating/high-inflammation/healing-gut/food-allergies?

It may be a case of struggling Digestive System, your body needs a little help getting the digestive fire started, and you can get it going, and then slowly ramp yourself back off them until you arent taking them anymore.

Im also a fan of Adding a little acid to your digestion,

Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar "With the Mother" is nice too.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 05:07 AM

Thanks, Im going to order some of this and some glutamine. Ive heard Robb mention it many times too and plan on trying it out

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on July 28, 2010
at 03:41 AM

L-lysine might be a good idea too

0
2fd2b2346da1afd4cea4de40ed8480a0

(106)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:00 AM

well the seratonin and dopamine will affect your mood/preformance throughout the day, but im not sure how much that can be attributed to your diet because as long as you're getting all of the nutrients your body needs to synthesize those chemicals, you shouldn't have a problem. and eating paleo should help, so in my opinion you should have that checked out unless someone else has a way to stop the other effects, and in doing so, helps your neurotransmitter levels.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:11 AM

I think that they are related to my body's reaction to food as the inflammation level is also high (histamine). I feel more inflamed after eating a lot of foods. Right now I notice it most after eating protein sources (eggs, meat, etc..)

0
0dc1d63c3d5975f5115f535c6a90c9dd

(2283)

on July 28, 2010
at 01:51 AM

what were the foods you tested allergic to and what test was used?

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:07 AM

Ahhh sorry. I spaced out those comments so that they were legible but when I hit enter they all mushed together.

Ae011d9f1c8654ea66854ca2a977c397

(1165)

on July 28, 2010
at 02:07 AM

It was a blood test (E95 and A95 food panel). Tested significant allergy to were; cows dairy/cheese, wheat/gluten/rye/spelt, almonds, egg whites/egg yolk, pineapple, mushroom, and yogurt Tested moderate allergy to (should not eat more than once every 4 days) were; Beef, some cow cheeses (others tested significant allergy), kidney/pinto bean (was fine w/ other beans), honey (I was eating bee pollen at the time), watercress, ginger (was eating at the time) The food I was eating at the time was; beef, eggs, dairy, yogurt, ginger, bee pollen, mushrooms, grains & all of these came up positive

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on July 28, 2010
at 01:29 PM

I don't know of a way to enter line breaks in comments. Does anybody else know?

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