11

votes

Paleo Summit Hack-a-thon: Jack Kruse, 2/27

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created February 27, 2012 at 2:19 AM

What: The Paleo Summit (see also this post)

Who: Dr. Jack Kruse MD ??? Neurosurgeon

Topic: Leptin Circadian Cycles. Dr. Kruse uncovers how leptin resistance lies at the root of inflammation, obesity, and chronic disease. He also shares how he lost 133 pounds in a single year by correcting the ???biological mismatches??? that were once prevalent in his life..

What did you think of the Quilt's presentation?

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Well, color me slapped down!

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:22 PM

Did you mean that they are large dangerous creatures wreaking havoc in the paleoshere? Then who is Mothra?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 08, 2012
at 01:16 PM

I intended to say stuck rather than such.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 08, 2012
at 08:04 AM

Kurt, he is the new Guru. All must worship him without question or else remain such in the dogma of the past.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 08, 2012
at 05:32 AM

Excellent choice in movie references. But I'm afraid you have the analogy wrong...Chauncy Gardner laid no claim to fame at all. It was thrust upon him. He was a simple man of simple truths.

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 08, 2012
at 05:24 AM

"I like to watch." - Chancey Gardener

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on March 05, 2012
at 09:07 AM

jk I respect Dr. K's work but as a medical student I do feel alot of what I'm learning is way backwards. (even the faculty are starting to realize it, they're advocating for eggs/sat fat over cereal grains)

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on March 05, 2012
at 09:06 AM

always kill the patient.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on March 05, 2012
at 08:43 AM

Kruse and Guyenet are the Godzilla and King Kong of Paleo right now, no doubt about it. I don't think they're irreconciliable. In fact I'm now doing a ketogenic Paleo Diet as outlined by Kruse's Leptin Reset Rx + I'm cooking such a diet in a low reward manner i.e. boiling/cooking gently/no seasoning at all vs being a Paleo gourmet. Obviously such an extreme diet (extreme from SAD) takes time to get used to it but I did! So I can attest its both doable and both men are conciliable in their theories if that makes sense

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on March 04, 2012
at 03:53 PM

I wanna be this type of mouse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKRm1e2lNjU&feature=related

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on March 04, 2012
at 02:52 PM

lol. you really are one of the funnier PH'ers

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 04, 2012
at 12:04 PM

The key question then is are you a Zucker rat or a Djungarian hamster? :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:31 PM

I thought conventional wisdom meant "what is generally believed to be true".

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on February 29, 2012
at 11:53 PM

I did it entirely by accident and there was no improvement. NSAIDs do work temporarily but I now know enough of the relevant anatomy that corrective exercise is more effective.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:30 PM

and why there has been especially in the ancestral health movement pendelum swings on actionable dietary guidelines. I intend to look more into this for myself, with whatever scrutiny I can muster from my vantage point.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:30 PM

Now, the way I see it, he's publicly laid out the way for others to question many deep assumptions (including his) and prove this for themselves. The few, new working assumptions threaded throughout his writings do deserve thoughtful scrutiny. But the most fascinating proposition is the one that would seem to demystify many anomalies including the huge amount of contrary results in research done on human health and nutrition,

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:26 PM

I can appreciate how he put this stuff forward. He isn't trying to scientifically prove it to anyone else. He's apparently proven it to himself, but the rigor of science came after the original storm of creative associations and what-ifs. That is how scientific discovery can emerge from subjective personalities under subjective experiences, as the above cited post describes.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:42 PM

re: #4, I'm not following it all either and hope for a clarification/expansion on this topic. I think the main take-away is that eating seasonally is better than not, but it still may not be optimal.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:39 PM

re: #2 Most CW experts will still say that it doesn't matter what you eat if you have an AI disease. That's just one example.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:38 PM

Oh, I know, maybe if he had studied more english instead of wasting all that time at a stupid science museum...... (srously, I'm so jealous)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 28, 2012
at 07:39 AM

"t will be interesting if the larger paleo community will ditch the science-only perspective and embrace other ways of looking at things." We don't have to use science for arguments anymore? SWEEET. This is awesome. I just asked my goddess about Dr. Kruse and she said she didn't like him very much.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on February 28, 2012
at 02:34 AM

Yeah, I couldn't tell if injecting female pregnancy hormones was part of the "holy trinity" or not...

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 28, 2012
at 12:30 AM

Quilt, you are brevity personified :)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 28, 2012
at 12:20 AM

http://jackkruse.com/the-holy-trinity-ct-4/

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:50 PM

or put the art back into discovery and exploration. it's a worthy topic.. see this post: http://openanthcoop.ning.com/profiles/blogs/scientific-discovery-and

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:12 PM

re: #3, Kruse does identify the uncoupling proteins, which allow your engine to rev, but not go anywhere. He says in some other places that for fat people, that pathway is broken. If they eat too much, it turns to fat instead of being thrown off as heat.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:07 PM

wow, too much answer to fully address, but have you tried Robb Wolf's autoimmune protocol?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:05 PM

conventional wisdom is "knowing things that ain't so".

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:04 PM

it will be interesting if the larger paleo community will ditch the science-only perspective and embrace other ways of looking at things. IMO, "we" are just as bad, if not worse than CW in this respect. If we were truly paying attention to our ancestors, this would be a bigger factor.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:01 PM

..such a tease...

183f5c49a7a9548b6f5238d1f33cb35e

(1716)

on February 27, 2012
at 09:54 PM

SO it's true! Our nephilim overlords did genetically engineer us coz our brains are mismatched with our paleolithic genes! ;)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 09:45 PM

Beth, I agree that year round feasting is probably one of the most important things.

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on February 27, 2012
at 09:35 PM

Haterade is most definately *not* paleo. :-)

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 27, 2012
at 09:31 PM

"A girl can wish, can't she ;). Beth" Yep, and I'm wishing to eat bananas 365 - just one per day though. :-))

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 08:53 PM

Except I think the real problem is not bananas or other fruits and vegetables. It's that we have way overswung the pendulum from "allowing weaker individuals to survive" to living in an all feasting world with a body designed for famine. As Kruse (and Chris Kresser) have said, it's a mismatch of genetics and environment. As I said on Dr. Kruse's blog, I don't know that that means we all need to take to Arctic caves (or give up fruit and greens for the winter), but I do think it's learning what exactly may be useful to help restore our natural homeostasis. A girl can wish, can't she ;).

0df0b1c6ae16bbb75b4a5efa3d876765

(2240)

on February 27, 2012
at 08:46 PM

+1 for thoughtful insight, especially about becoming better 'artists'.

537001f30670e73eb0ac45779af649a5

on February 27, 2012
at 08:42 PM

the "every bit" gets him into trouble, and me too. cheers

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 27, 2012
at 08:41 PM

@Beth, I'm comfortable with the line of thought but I'm also remembering that "we're allowing weaker individuals to survive." When our fit ancestors survived the winters (no fruit/green plants) weaker ones died. I'm not willing to assume that everyone's health will improve if they give up fruit and greens for the winter. I can see that maybe we should try cutting back and see if good things happen, but it may be that eating those things is now necessary for some/many of us.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 08:28 PM

BTW, just to be really clear, I do think the question about eating bananas 365 days a year is one that I think matters. I'm far from being a LC evangelist, but I find the whole question of what did we eat when (and how much of it) to be intriguing. Of course pre-industrial people in cold climates ate a lot of tubers (hello, root cellar). But they also probably burnt off a gazillion calories keeping warm and they probably had much higher vitamin D stores from sun exposure over the summer. Maybe I'm nuts, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find some of those things in play here.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 07:14 PM

It's a good thing Jimmy Moore's presentation is shorter than the others or you might need to call the paramedics ;).

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 27, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Tis probably true Beth. The most important thing he said in that interview was how humans differ from animals -- we can control our environment (at least to large extent). Absent becoming a subsistence hunter/gatherer type -- not just getting paleo foods from the market -- I don't see how there's a whole lot of difference.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 27, 2012
at 06:14 PM

Tonight you get more clarity

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 27, 2012
at 06:14 PM

He who laughs last last best........that is all I am going to say. Beth I appreciate your open mind and tonight you will be rewarded. I promise.

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on February 27, 2012
at 06:07 PM

Yes, turquoise has different kinds of electrons than blue. This is where the 30,000ft optic comes in handy.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 05:24 PM

hehe Beth :) Though I expect Quilt would be more likely to say the sky was more of a quantum turquoise.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 27, 2012
at 05:16 PM

Can everyone refrain from putting down an answer unless they have actually listened to the presentation? I will delete any "answers" from people who haven't.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 27, 2012
at 05:13 PM

After 55 years, I'm finally getting warm, too.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 27, 2012
at 05:10 PM

He could not make it simpler, he just seems incapable of doing so. If he can't handle something as simple as explaining why Phelps goes through 18000 cals/day without "thermal coefficients" (hint -- thermal coefficients aren't the same as temperature) there's little hope. Michael Phelps burns a lot of calories because he spends a lot of time in the water so his body expends a lot of fuel to keep his temperature up. He's not uncoupled from his metabolism or whatever.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 27, 2012
at 05:05 PM

He could not make it, he just seems it. If he can't handle something as simple as explaining why Phelps goes through 18000 cals/day without "thermal coefficients" that don't even make sense -- words have meaning -- there's little hope.

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

(5939)

on February 27, 2012
at 05:01 PM

Anthony - After you ask the experts, do you follow them or do the opposite? Does it affect your answer if they teach in medical school?

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 04:58 PM

Evelyn, Kruse pegged your BS meter before you even listened to today's presentation. Like Melissa, I appreciate when you call bullshit on someone, but I'm not sure Kruse could say the sky is blue and you wouldn't have had some cynical retort about it ;).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 27, 2012
at 04:26 PM

It started with Jimmy 474 podcast....i took another step today......and tonight or tomorrow I bring it all together. Then judge me.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 27, 2012
at 04:25 PM

I am not done yet. When I am done then bury me.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 27, 2012
at 04:14 PM

Hi folks, I'm curious if any of you listened to either Kruse podcast with Jimmy. Kruse pegged my BS meter early on. He never once says "how" really. Just eat paleo. Last I checked bananas aren't grains or dairy and allowed on paleo diets so just don't eat them unless you're living where they grow, getting the geothermal vibes and eating them in season. Got it. Shut off access to my area postema. Sigh!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:52 PM

When you look at the details he does talk a right load of nonsense :)

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 03:47 PM

Re Evelyn's take all I can say is wow! Interesting that I can gloss over some of the things she finds egregious because there are some things I really liked in what I heard.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:33 PM

Go Leptin Man :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 27, 2012
at 03:27 PM

Here is Evelyn's take http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/02/live-blogging-from-paleo-summit-iii.html#more More when I have time to listen to it.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:24 PM

What is conventional wisdom then?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:21 PM

a good scientist always washes his/her hands BEFORE visiting the bathroom

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:20 PM

washing your hands isn't conventional wisdom, there is actually some data there

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on February 27, 2012
at 02:39 PM

I will admit it's changed my views somewhat on Quilt.

537001f30670e73eb0ac45779af649a5

on February 27, 2012
at 01:53 PM

i dont know lets ask the experts, you should probably do it out of courtesy but probably dont need to a lot of the time.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 27, 2012
at 01:52 PM

The urine germs reset the leptin levels.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:51 PM

How about after visiting the bathroom? :)

537001f30670e73eb0ac45779af649a5

on February 27, 2012
at 01:50 PM

ya thats not 'too much'

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:47 PM

It is totally conventional wisdom to wash your hands before operating on someones brain.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:44 PM

His blog may not be very organized, his presentation was fine!

537001f30670e73eb0ac45779af649a5

on February 27, 2012
at 01:43 PM

washing your hands too much is a problem.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:30 PM

I hope he still washes his hands.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:28 PM

Does he do the opposite of wash his hands before treating patients? :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:27 PM

I hope he still washes his hands.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on February 27, 2012
at 08:46 AM

This is the presentation : http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BRuKdHANLM0

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:26 AM

OK Beth, now I get it- you are linking people to the Summit!

667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on February 27, 2012
at 02:31 AM

Oh I can't wait to see the responses you get

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11 Answers

10
87f26cf235a0e2420e28779113b0257b

on March 08, 2012
at 05:21 AM

Reading the discussion of Kruse's emissions here reminds me of nothing so much as Being There by Jerzy Kosinski.

People apparently will take anything seriously, to the point where the more incoherent and implausible it sounds, the more profound it appears to them.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 08, 2012
at 08:04 AM

Kurt, he is the new Guru. All must worship him without question or else remain such in the dogma of the past.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 08, 2012
at 01:16 PM

I intended to say stuck rather than such.

E0250b1e6dc5ec1539ffb745042b4d80

(3651)

on March 08, 2012
at 05:24 AM

"I like to watch." - Chancey Gardener

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 08, 2012
at 05:32 AM

Excellent choice in movie references. But I'm afraid you have the analogy wrong...Chauncy Gardner laid no claim to fame at all. It was thrust upon him. He was a simple man of simple truths.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on September 07, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Well, color me slapped down!

9
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 27, 2012
at 05:07 PM

I've read criticisms of Dr Kruse here and elsewhere for communicating in doctor-speak, acronymns, etc. In this talk, I thought he went out of his way to speak in general terms. There were times I wished he went into more substance for deeper precision but I realize others might not have wanted him to so you can't please everyone.

I agree with his comment that we've "come to the mean" by ensuring that as many individuals survive as possible. I think I disagree with his conclusion that doing so has slowed our evolution; I think it's just as likely we've sped it up because people with many genetic variations have reproduced. Some of those have definitely perpetuated weaknesses that wouldn't have survived "in the wild" but others allowed superior traits to survive despite accompanying weaknesses (think Stephen Hawking.)

I came to attention when Dr Kruse spoke about uncoupling proteins because all my life the guys around me were walking "blast furnaces" while my skin was cool. I was always cold when others were warm despite my obesity.

Hmm. You know, I think my uncoupling proteins were "broken." I'm happy to report that 10 months of quality nutrition have helped and while I'm still not close to radiating heat I'm definitely less cool than in the past.

I'll be willing to read more on his thoughts.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 27, 2012
at 06:14 PM

Tonight you get more clarity

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on February 27, 2012
at 05:13 PM

After 55 years, I'm finally getting warm, too.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:01 PM

..such a tease...

9
8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:19 PM

I thought it was great! The quilt always sounds better than he reads. He couldn't help getting more complex than he had intended to be, so I don't know how it works for people who haven't heard him before. If I have time I'll go back and listen again.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 27, 2012
at 05:05 PM

He could not make it, he just seems it. If he can't handle something as simple as explaining why Phelps goes through 18000 cals/day without "thermal coefficients" that don't even make sense -- words have meaning -- there's little hope.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 27, 2012
at 05:10 PM

He could not make it simpler, he just seems incapable of doing so. If he can't handle something as simple as explaining why Phelps goes through 18000 cals/day without "thermal coefficients" (hint -- thermal coefficients aren't the same as temperature) there's little hope. Michael Phelps burns a lot of calories because he spends a lot of time in the water so his body expends a lot of fuel to keep his temperature up. He's not uncoupled from his metabolism or whatever.

8
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:13 PM

Awesome presentation. He goes over interesting stuff around circadian rhythms, light exposure, inflammation, leptin, cholesterol.

Best quote ever: "Every bit of conventional wisdom I learned in medical school, I now do the opposite."

537001f30670e73eb0ac45779af649a5

on February 27, 2012
at 01:43 PM

washing your hands too much is a problem.

537001f30670e73eb0ac45779af649a5

on February 27, 2012
at 01:53 PM

i dont know lets ask the experts, you should probably do it out of courtesy but probably dont need to a lot of the time.

C4f1a0c70c4e0dea507c2e346c036bbd

on February 27, 2012
at 01:52 PM

The urine germs reset the leptin levels.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:20 PM

washing your hands isn't conventional wisdom, there is actually some data there

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:30 PM

I hope he still washes his hands.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:05 PM

conventional wisdom is "knowing things that ain't so".

9e20abb05f3f6e3cc4bb107f8980aecd

(5939)

on February 27, 2012
at 05:01 PM

Anthony - After you ask the experts, do you follow them or do the opposite? Does it affect your answer if they teach in medical school?

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:28 PM

Does he do the opposite of wash his hands before treating patients? :)

537001f30670e73eb0ac45779af649a5

on February 27, 2012
at 01:50 PM

ya thats not 'too much'

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:27 PM

I hope he still washes his hands.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:24 PM

What is conventional wisdom then?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:21 PM

a good scientist always washes his/her hands BEFORE visiting the bathroom

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:47 PM

It is totally conventional wisdom to wash your hands before operating on someones brain.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 01:51 PM

How about after visiting the bathroom? :)

537001f30670e73eb0ac45779af649a5

on February 27, 2012
at 08:42 PM

the "every bit" gets him into trouble, and me too. cheers

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:31 PM

I thought conventional wisdom meant "what is generally believed to be true".

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on March 05, 2012
at 09:06 AM

always kill the patient.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on March 05, 2012
at 09:07 AM

jk I respect Dr. K's work but as a medical student I do feel alot of what I'm learning is way backwards. (even the faculty are starting to realize it, they're advocating for eggs/sat fat over cereal grains)

7
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:40 PM

I admit, I was skeptical of his ability to communicate before listening to his presentation.

He was very clear & sounded right on to me.

I wish he had explained his throwaway line about "using his mind to change his DNA" better than he did--it puts some people off, unnecessarily, I think!

Too bad his writing style isn't as clear. Hopefully he will hire a really good editor for his book!

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:38 PM

Oh, I know, maybe if he had studied more english instead of wasting all that time at a stupid science museum...... (srously, I'm so jealous)

6
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 02:20 PM

I will be interested to hear Evelyn's take on this presentation, but I found it fairly compelling. His take on leptin is, to this lay person, more satisfying than provided elsewhere (like over on Robb Wolf's blog, where supposedly increased leptin levels leads to leptin resistance).

I will let Dr. K and Stephan Guyenet duke it out in a steel cage over which is primary here (leptin or reward systems). Myself, I don't think it's an either/or, and it certainly seems that a similar paleo-ish diet addresses both ... by both reducing inflammation and reward compared to SAD.

He speaks far less "creatively" than he writes. That said, I'm sure many folks may ding him for using the sloppy "change your thought, change your DNA" when what it sounds like he means is "think about things differently, take a different path from conventional wisdom and change your diet and your environment, and you will affect the expression of your DNA in a healthful way."

But if you weren't going to listen to this presentation because of his writing style, I'd encourage you to reconsider. I'm looking forward to other folks' take!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:52 PM

When you look at the details he does talk a right load of nonsense :)

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 27, 2012
at 04:26 PM

It started with Jimmy 474 podcast....i took another step today......and tonight or tomorrow I bring it all together. Then judge me.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 03:33 PM

Go Leptin Man :)

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 05:24 PM

hehe Beth :) Though I expect Quilt would be more likely to say the sky was more of a quantum turquoise.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 27, 2012
at 04:25 PM

I am not done yet. When I am done then bury me.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 04:58 PM

Evelyn, Kruse pegged your BS meter before you even listened to today's presentation. Like Melissa, I appreciate when you call bullshit on someone, but I'm not sure Kruse could say the sky is blue and you wouldn't have had some cynical retort about it ;).

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on February 27, 2012
at 02:39 PM

I will admit it's changed my views somewhat on Quilt.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 27, 2012
at 04:14 PM

Hi folks, I'm curious if any of you listened to either Kruse podcast with Jimmy. Kruse pegged my BS meter early on. He never once says "how" really. Just eat paleo. Last I checked bananas aren't grains or dairy and allowed on paleo diets so just don't eat them unless you're living where they grow, getting the geothermal vibes and eating them in season. Got it. Shut off access to my area postema. Sigh!

246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21430)

on February 27, 2012
at 09:35 PM

Haterade is most definately *not* paleo. :-)

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 03:47 PM

Re Evelyn's take all I can say is wow! Interesting that I can gloss over some of the things she finds egregious because there are some things I really liked in what I heard.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 07:14 PM

It's a good thing Jimmy Moore's presentation is shorter than the others or you might need to call the paramedics ;).

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on February 27, 2012
at 06:07 PM

Yes, turquoise has different kinds of electrons than blue. This is where the 30,000ft optic comes in handy.

24df4e0d0e7ce98963d4641fae1a60e5

on February 27, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Tis probably true Beth. The most important thing he said in that interview was how humans differ from animals -- we can control our environment (at least to large extent). Absent becoming a subsistence hunter/gatherer type -- not just getting paleo foods from the market -- I don't see how there's a whole lot of difference.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 28, 2012
at 12:30 AM

Quilt, you are brevity personified :)

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 27, 2012
at 03:27 PM

Here is Evelyn's take http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/02/live-blogging-from-paleo-summit-iii.html#more More when I have time to listen to it.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 27, 2012
at 06:14 PM

He who laughs last last best........that is all I am going to say. Beth I appreciate your open mind and tonight you will be rewarded. I promise.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 27, 2012
at 09:31 PM

"A girl can wish, can't she ;). Beth" Yep, and I'm wishing to eat bananas 365 - just one per day though. :-))

7d64d3988de1b0e493aacf37843c5596

(2861)

on February 28, 2012
at 02:34 AM

Yeah, I couldn't tell if injecting female pregnancy hormones was part of the "holy trinity" or not...

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on February 27, 2012
at 09:45 PM

Beth, I agree that year round feasting is probably one of the most important things.

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 08:53 PM

Except I think the real problem is not bananas or other fruits and vegetables. It's that we have way overswung the pendulum from "allowing weaker individuals to survive" to living in an all feasting world with a body designed for famine. As Kruse (and Chris Kresser) have said, it's a mismatch of genetics and environment. As I said on Dr. Kruse's blog, I don't know that that means we all need to take to Arctic caves (or give up fruit and greens for the winter), but I do think it's learning what exactly may be useful to help restore our natural homeostasis. A girl can wish, can't she ;).

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on February 28, 2012
at 12:20 AM

http://jackkruse.com/the-holy-trinity-ct-4/

7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on February 27, 2012
at 08:28 PM

BTW, just to be really clear, I do think the question about eating bananas 365 days a year is one that I think matters. I'm far from being a LC evangelist, but I find the whole question of what did we eat when (and how much of it) to be intriguing. Of course pre-industrial people in cold climates ate a lot of tubers (hello, root cellar). But they also probably burnt off a gazillion calories keeping warm and they probably had much higher vitamin D stores from sun exposure over the summer. Maybe I'm nuts, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to find some of those things in play here.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on February 27, 2012
at 08:41 PM

@Beth, I'm comfortable with the line of thought but I'm also remembering that "we're allowing weaker individuals to survive." When our fit ancestors survived the winters (no fruit/green plants) weaker ones died. I'm not willing to assume that everyone's health will improve if they give up fruit and greens for the winter. I can see that maybe we should try cutting back and see if good things happen, but it may be that eating those things is now necessary for some/many of us.

Cc69a51b427eaad36251cce9dcca4d3a

(1074)

on March 05, 2012
at 08:43 AM

Kruse and Guyenet are the Godzilla and King Kong of Paleo right now, no doubt about it. I don't think they're irreconciliable. In fact I'm now doing a ketogenic Paleo Diet as outlined by Kruse's Leptin Reset Rx + I'm cooking such a diet in a low reward manner i.e. boiling/cooking gently/no seasoning at all vs being a Paleo gourmet. Obviously such an extreme diet (extreme from SAD) takes time to get used to it but I did! So I can attest its both doable and both men are conciliable in their theories if that makes sense

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:22 PM

Did you mean that they are large dangerous creatures wreaking havoc in the paleoshere? Then who is Mothra?

4
1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:33 AM

Excellent. I love how he covered biologically appropriate. Also the vagus nerve.

4
284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on February 27, 2012
at 09:00 PM

  1. If he's right about video games and leptin resistance, then shouldn't the entire starcraft-as-religion population of south korea have the highest rates of obesity, if not insomnia and sleep disruption, in the world?
  2. Brain-gut axis--very interesting. How true is his statement that this is not accepted in medical school curriculum if it is, as he says, an indisputable anatomical fact (i.e. function vs. location)
  3. Calories are not all equal: dissipating excess calories as heat. If Ray Peat can maintain body composition by eating many calories and Micheal Phelps can eat many calories (obviously these are different scales) while doing the same, doesn't that imply that there is a mechanism other than what Kruse identifies that makes a certain amount of excess calories irrelevant to bodyfat regulation?
  4. Should you eat bananas in Saskatchewan for optimal health: Kruse says no. What if you live in the continental climate zone, where nearly anything other than tropical fruits can be grown outside? If Danny Roddy moved to Saskatchewan would his OJ, fruits and shellfish not affect his body as they do now? And would the milk and gelatin's effects be unchanged? 5.banana-eating has 'slowed evolution.' That, even for me, seems to be unconnected to the rest of his presentation--not following the tangent.
  5. Inflammation starting in the gut: this seems to be the most common observation of most diet gurus with science backgrounds.
  6. Who has the data to link a particular dietary protocol with reduced general inflammation? My joint pain from overuse injuries was unchanged throughout both low and high-carb paleo as well as the Peaty protocol I'm trying now.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:07 PM

wow, too much answer to fully address, but have you tried Robb Wolf's autoimmune protocol?

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:42 PM

re: #4, I'm not following it all either and hope for a clarification/expansion on this topic. I think the main take-away is that eating seasonally is better than not, but it still may not be optimal.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:12 PM

re: #3, Kruse does identify the uncoupling proteins, which allow your engine to rev, but not go anywhere. He says in some other places that for fat people, that pathway is broken. If they eat too much, it turns to fat instead of being thrown off as heat.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 28, 2012
at 04:39 PM

re: #2 Most CW experts will still say that it doesn't matter what you eat if you have an AI disease. That's just one example.

284213562569be43dfda0ad40914da6f

on February 29, 2012
at 11:53 PM

I did it entirely by accident and there was no improvement. NSAIDs do work temporarily but I now know enough of the relevant anatomy that corrective exercise is more effective.

4
A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

on February 27, 2012
at 08:19 PM

Thinking out loud here on some meta issues... I personally appreciate the obvious ambition to weave together epistemic problems and dietary / biochemistry problems. Because he's obviously doing a lot of thinking about thinking, it makes sense that he has a bit of an artful approach to communication on the blog and elsewhere. "Art" (ideas conveyed in a non literal structure?) is the most natural way we deal with our world, so the slow stiching of the quilt pieces, just its form, can be a great catalyst for others to think through, to think laterally, to approach old problems in fresh ways. Thinking more clearly, becoming better 'artists', doing better self analysis / self experimentation, etc. That's certainly one of my life goals, at least as important as being free of ND into the later years.

It could very well be that the role of the brain and its patterns of reasoning will become more important than it already has in the ancestral health movement or whatever you want to call it. Because of the inherent interdisciplinary nature of the movement, like with any interdisciplinary movement, there needs to be more exploration into useful, descriptive models to demonstrate cause and effect on any given overlapping topic. Imagine an organized arena for instance to get the neuro surgeon's perspective, the physicist's perspective, the biochemist's perspective, and the anthropological perspective on the same thing. I think Dr Kruse might implicitly be pushing more for something like this (and the symposiums sort of stab in that direction as well)? He and some others seem to be a few steps ahead so its hard to know.

For instance he alludes to gut intuition at one point in the interview; it would be wonderful to see more of that spelled out and explored from across disciplines, coherent theories proposed from competent disciplinarians, what this means for the ancestral movement, if and what are formal models of information evaluation. Or perhaps it already has been worked out from several angles and needs to be further dispelled in the public arena.

What I'm sensing is we can't just try to think logically about the things related to health, but also our role of thinking itself and how the health related matters fold back on that. I'm wondering if situation theory (google Barwise and Perry's work) may be helpful in working this stuff out.

0df0b1c6ae16bbb75b4a5efa3d876765

(2240)

on February 27, 2012
at 08:46 PM

+1 for thoughtful insight, especially about becoming better 'artists'.

8949bf87b0e0aefcad10f29975e4fa2b

(8989)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:04 PM

it will be interesting if the larger paleo community will ditch the science-only perspective and embrace other ways of looking at things. IMO, "we" are just as bad, if not worse than CW in this respect. If we were truly paying attention to our ancestors, this would be a bigger factor.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on February 27, 2012
at 10:50 PM

or put the art back into discovery and exploration. it's a worthy topic.. see this post: http://openanthcoop.ning.com/profiles/blogs/scientific-discovery-and

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:30 PM

Now, the way I see it, he's publicly laid out the way for others to question many deep assumptions (including his) and prove this for themselves. The few, new working assumptions threaded throughout his writings do deserve thoughtful scrutiny. But the most fascinating proposition is the one that would seem to demystify many anomalies including the huge amount of contrary results in research done on human health and nutrition,

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on February 28, 2012
at 07:39 AM

"t will be interesting if the larger paleo community will ditch the science-only perspective and embrace other ways of looking at things." We don't have to use science for arguments anymore? SWEEET. This is awesome. I just asked my goddess about Dr. Kruse and she said she didn't like him very much.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:26 PM

I can appreciate how he put this stuff forward. He isn't trying to scientifically prove it to anyone else. He's apparently proven it to himself, but the rigor of science came after the original storm of creative associations and what-ifs. That is how scientific discovery can emerge from subjective personalities under subjective experiences, as the above cited post describes.

A2fe5bbd09c7804fd321e9e9a9f9d199

(1614)

on February 28, 2012
at 07:30 PM

and why there has been especially in the ancestral health movement pendelum swings on actionable dietary guidelines. I intend to look more into this for myself, with whatever scrutiny I can muster from my vantage point.

2
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on March 04, 2012
at 12:32 AM

I find myself defending him here more than I probably need to, but I've gotta say that time and time again as I wade through the scientific literature I find sources and explanations for many of his assertions....

I've posted a lengthy list of references about leptin and thermogenesis on here, today I've come across this paper that includes a section about cold temps. I'm not saying this paragraph answers everything, but in response to people who say his blogs spout unbacked claims, there are at least solid connections to be made between leptin and cold temps.

It has been shown that cold exposure reduces circulating leptin levels and leptin expression,19,28,70 ??? 72 suggesting that leptin may participate in the adaptive mechanism triggered by variations in external temperature. Trayhurn and co-workers28,73 hypothesized that the inhibitory effect of low temperature on leptin results from an increase in the adrenergic tone induced by exposure to cold temperatures,which would in turn act through the b3-adrenoceptor (b3-AR) present in adipose tissue, inducing a reduction in the expression of leptin mRNA. It has been reported that this was the case for mice19 and rats.28 Hardie et al70 also found that acute cold exposure decreased the level of circulating leptin in lean Zucker rats. However, it appears that this is not so for other rodents, such as the Djungarian hamster.21 For animals living in areas with large seasonal temperature variations, a decrease in serum leptin may represent an adaptive mechanism for maximising the size of fat deposits when environment temperature is low. Trayhurn et al28 showed that the leptin mRNA observed in brown adipose tissue was further reduced on cold exposure, paralleling the response observed in mouse white adipose tissue. These authors postulated that these findings may suggest the existence of a feedback loop between the hypothalamus and BAT, that would result in an inhibition of leptin gene expression when the sympathetic system is activated. Interestingly, Trayhurn et al28 reported contrasting results to those reported by Moinat et al,19 who showed no change in leptin expression in the white adipose tissue of rats which were acutely cold-exposed.

19 Moinat M, Deng C, Muzzin P, Assimocopoulos-Jeannet F, Seydoux, J, Dulloo AG, Giacobino JP. Modulation of obese gene expression in rat brown and white adipose tissues. FEBS Lett 1995; 373: 131 ??? 134.

28 Trayhurn P, Duncan JS, Rayner DV. Acute cold-induced suppres- sion of ob (obese) gene expression in white adipose tissue of mice; mediation by the sympathetic system. Biochem J 1995; 311: 729 ??? 733.

70 Hardie LJ, Rayner DV, Holmes S, Trayhurn P. Circulating leptin levels are modulated by fasting, cold exposure and insulin administration in lean but Zucker (fa=fa) rats as measured by ELISA. Biochem Biophys Res Commun 1996; 223: 660 ??? 665.

71 MacDougald OA, Hwang CS, Fan H, Lane MD. Regulated expres- sion of the obese gene product (leptin) in white adipose tissue and 3T3-L1 adipocytes. Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1995; 92: 9034 ??? 9037.

72 Peino R, Pineiro V, Gualillo O, Menendez C, Brenlla J, Casabiell X, Dieguez C, Casanueva FF. Cold exposure inhibits leptin secretion in vitro by a direct and non-specific action on adipose tissue. Eur J Endocrinol 2000; 142: 195 ??? 199.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on March 04, 2012
at 12:04 PM

The key question then is are you a Zucker rat or a Djungarian hamster? :)

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on March 04, 2012
at 03:53 PM

I wanna be this type of mouse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKRm1e2lNjU&feature=related

64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on March 04, 2012
at 02:52 PM

lol. you really are one of the funnier PH'ers

0
Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on February 27, 2012
at 05:09 PM

I haven't listened to all of his presentation yet, but I will say this much. I've not been a fan of his writing. It comes off to me as a bit high-brow, etc. I consider myself pretty intelligent and well-read, but I need lay explanations for more scientific topics. However, his presentation was much clearer as something spoken than written. While he may still be controversial, he's at least worth listening to.

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