With all the leptin-talk over the last few months, much of it courtesy of the vaunted Dr.K/Quiltweaver, I thought I???d see what the consensus was regarding this study and its analysis by Professor Andro:
If you are practicing methods of leptin-control, or are interested in leptin at all, will this change your approach?
What do you make of the reporting by Andro that leptin is secreted in a diurnal pattern: with a peak at 1am, a steady decrease until its lowpoint at 1pm, and then a rising at 4pm?
Do you think there is any relation to the general IF idea of eating more food later in the day, in a bolus?
asked byben61820 (15976)
Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!
on July 16, 2011
at 06:01 PM
For me I am following this with interest but the jury is still out, lots more research is needed. As for me I have always naturally tended to eat little throughout the day and eat heavy at night. A lot of my people follow a similar pattern and when I speak to Elders they say that it was very similar in the time before the white man changed things. They tend to get up early, might have a light meal/snack then get work done / go hunting, then the tribe gathers for a large common meal before sundown.
on July 21, 2011
at 10:34 PM
Diurnal baseline leptin release (that has been known about for many years) will be overwhelmed by spikes in leptin secondary to carbohydrate intake.
In almost all of these studies, there is no accounting for leptin resistance that may occur long term; the studies are not carried out long enough. So there may be short-term gain i.e. reduced appetite secondary to carb loading secondary to a spike in leptin, but continued repetition of this will cause leptin resistance. If I am correct, and I firmly believe that I am, that leptin resistance is primarily secondary to and caused by leptin overexposure, then anything that spikes leptin will ultimately result in leptin resistance, that being the ultimate culprit. There may be short-term gain, but long-term detriment.
on July 16, 2011
at 03:51 PM
I asked a carb backloading question a while back and I am so glad to see you bring it up again - with the ANDRO stamp of approval!
Keifer's site has a bit more on this. I've also looked into his carb nite solution.
I've been saving carbs for night time, using resistance exercise as well of course and have noticed the following - smaller waist size, better sleep and interestingly better skin quality. Also, I am finally making gains in the squat deadlift department - the quest for booty continues.
I am interested in leptin control, I have been following Dr. K, I read Rosedale, I also read the blogs like Keifer's and T-Nation, etc. to get their take. I am starting from a place of senstivity, so I guess the evening carbs prolly work well for me because of that. Also, the training, I train pretty heavy.
IFing doesn't work well for me - I think fasting maybe does weird things in women - but that's speculation. Dr. Eades likes to say a high fat/protein low carb diet mimics starving, without the calories restriction. So, I've not been fasting during the day, rather I've been eating vlc until night.
I don't know if this adequately addresses your question, I was just excited to see this topic again :)
on July 16, 2011
at 06:21 PM
A good study, I like it. I would be careful not to interpret this so much as "carbs past 6 are good" rather than "carbs for breakfast are bad", that is the conclusion and partially explains why low carb diets are so good for quick short-term fat loss.
on July 16, 2011
at 01:49 PM
The basis of IFing well ala leangains require leptin sensitivity for optimal results
on July 22, 2011
at 01:32 AM
hm....there is a difference between decreasing leptin resistance(increasing sensitivity) and increasing leptin. i think this is where people get mistaken.
leptin sesitivity means your receptor raising leptin is about the carb feeding
in fat people reducing leptin is necessary. but there comes a threshold your brain determines where all the positives go negative and you get the leptin drop induced by diet/weight loss. thats where increasing calories sporadically/cyclically helps when one wishes to maintain a health but lower weight than their body predetermines(set point i guess). leptin should equate with your leaness
more body fay= less need for leptin increases but more need for lowering it(any diet will do as long as you lose weight and do your best to keep muscle)
leptin is a result of caloric intake/balance and body fat.
now...leptin receptors/resistance is a whole nother ball field. i think its more daily activities/dopamine regulation/hormone balance/emotional balance/sleep/vita D/season of the year it is etc...
on July 17, 2011
at 08:44 AM
I suppose this is more or less what I do already, insofar that though I don't eat many carbs, I eat all my carbs (apart from a few low carb vegetables) in the evening. This is largely because part of the reason why I reintroduced carbs in the first place was because a small dose before bed was supposed to help with sleep (and I'd been suffering from waking too early), but also it just seemed and felt intuitive. I'd read before about a carbohydrate meal early in the day substantially blunting fat burning for the rest of the day and based on vague Taubesean considerations about carbs and insulin, it seemed likely that eschewing carbs throughout the day (and only having one big meal of protein during that time) would be optimal.
I don't think this particular study tells us a great deal though. Stabby hit the nail on the head when he noted that this just shows a benefit from not eating your carbohydrate throughout the day, rather than showing a benefit to eating carbohydrate late per se. The positive changes that the even carb group gain are also those that we normally see in people losing weight, low carbing or fasting.
On the leptin point generally. That rhythm makes sense and also fits my experience of variations in energy. Claims to be able to reset leptin are intriguing, since it seems a potentially powerful mechanism, but a rather vague science. I've been particularly interested in this, again due to my sleep. The central idea I've been following is that eating (in a way that provokes a response from leptin, i.e. not plain fat) primes the body to think that it's daytime and thus to wakefulness, so although I've been eating most of my carbs at my evening meal, I've been trying not to eat too late in the day (which is hard to achieve). When I have managed to enter a fasting state before bed, my sleep and wakefulness the next day has always been good. Prior to this I've also often eaten most of my calories (typically a huge protein meal) very early and then eating very little throughout the rest of the day. I've normally done this when I'm sleep deprived- I find the huge dose of protein can really crank up the cortisol and blood sugar (rather like a cup of coffee).
on July 16, 2011
at 05:23 PM
I guess I am getting more picky, but before I would take away anything from a study such as this, I'd like to see the individual data for each subject. I do not believe in the overall averages as an indication of anything. I don't care all that much about what hormonal pattern he sees, since I am pretty much sure that I follow a different pattern. Putting the carbs in the evening is popular in a number of plans, including the Carb Addicts diet. Even Dr. K suggests keeping breakfast low in carbs. I try to keep carbs low in the early part of the day, since carbs in the morning greatly increase afternoon and evening cravings. I am not sure why this is so, and for me I don't really care all that much because by being on a low-carb, grain-free diet, the carbs are so easy to avoid anyway. I am already certain that it is hormonal. IF'ing with both food and carb-eating in the afternoon and evening did not work for me. What concerns me about a number of these studies is what I also see in the CW studies and "evidence-based" recommendations. That is, to do a study on healthy young men, badly apply it to fat old women, broadcast their ONE RIGHT WAY, and then admonish the women when it doesn't work for them.
on July 16, 2011
at 01:25 PM
I think the key here is that the group only rating carbs in the PM are having their blood sugar spike less often and therefore a better overall balance.
on July 19, 2011
at 01:35 AM
What would really be interesting would be to take a similar study and change the carb-eating window, say from dinner only. That is the basis of the Carbohydrate Addicts diet. I think you can eat all the "good" carbs at the evening meal, but it has to be within an hour. Curious to see how this WOE would compare to carb-eating later at night.