6

votes

Is CAFO meat Paleo or a neolithic agent of disease?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created March 02, 2012 at 6:04 PM

So lots of threads on this site about whether it is OK to eat CAFO meat for budgetary reasons and what to do if that's all you can afford.

My question is simply, if we are telling people to eliminate the NADs (neolithic agents of disease): primarily gluten and vegetable oils, then why are some of us going right ahead and saying it's OK to eat hormone- and antibiotic-laden meat & dairy?

The health impact is likely just as staggering, given the high rates of antibiotic resistance and the still unknown impact of a couple generations raised in a xenoestrogen soup, primarily caused by CAFO operations, (as well as the prevalence of plastics and BCPs in the water supply.)

Fertility rates fell more rapidly from 2007 through 2009 than for any 2-year period in more than 30 years. In my work in the birth world, I am seeing many women in their late 20s and early 30s with fertility problems--is this partly due to the CAFO meat?

Are we doing ourselves and our children a disservice by calling CAFO meat Paleo?

Have you watched the FRESH movie? Free to watch on this link through tomorrow.

ETA: Thanks for your feedback so far!

I think the question could also be rephrased as: Should we encourage folks who can't afford grassfed/free-range meat to eat CAFO meat, or find a healthier and affordable option, like free-range eggs/dairy, wild caught fish and (gasp) properly prepared organically-grown legumes?

ETA2: I edited my question, thanks to Matt!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 06, 2012
at 11:22 PM

Definitely worth the $15 to purchase, if you like to share information, like I do!

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on March 06, 2012
at 10:13 PM

There was only a three-minute preview at the link this afternoon, but it was lovely. Very encouraging to see people farming and raising livestock in healthy ways. Thanks!

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on March 06, 2012
at 04:49 AM

If you can get it...just eat only the ground beef and divide a pound into 3 meals.

3c997ffae3db9464325b96979346d9e9

(1290)

on March 03, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Grass fed organ meats are cheaper (and healthier) than muscle meat...Whole Foods sells great wild caught canned red salmon for $2.50 for 7 ounces...No CAFO- rise above the narcissism, make a statement and shut down a horrific industry

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Edited to Add..

535fafe8afe6923870905c707c4f4454

(720)

on March 03, 2012
at 09:00 AM

Thanks for the movie link! what is ETA, I've never seen it used in this context!

Ca1150430b1904659742ce2cad621c7d

(12540)

on March 03, 2012
at 06:20 AM

*nod nod* I can't eat chicken or eggs because of the soy they eat. If I want eggs, there is only one place I can get them in the united states, and I have to have them shipped in. I don't even bother with chicken any more... It's simply not worth it from a health standpoint.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on March 03, 2012
at 05:50 AM

If I eat a goat or a cow that ate grass, that doesn't mean I ate the grass, technically. But it also means that I didn't eat any toxic by-products of a broken/diseased metabolism. Know what I mean?

Medium avatar

(5639)

on March 03, 2012
at 05:48 AM

Ambimorph, both are what I meant.

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc

(3280)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:49 AM

And, good question; thought-provoking!

Fb67dc30cead043d1d13ea503a3044dc

(3280)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:48 AM

Thanks for the link to the movie, Dragonfly -- that was GREAT.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:09 AM

Ambimorph~ I would have agreed with you, but interestingly, several moms I know can't feed their kids CAFO meat due to allergic reactions (same reactions they have to corn or soy). The kids can eat grass-fed meat, no problem.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:06 AM

Avoiding vegetables?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:06 AM

My whole point is that it may not be the healthiest option. Have you watched the film, Chelsea?

D0952bfcc8728e24d32049dc9513b7a0

on March 03, 2012
at 04:00 AM

Agreed Nance and Rob, in my area grassfed beef is $6.75+/lb, and the smallest order you can place is 80 lbs. Definitely not feasible with my part-time job/full-time student budget.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Matt~ you may change your mind after watching the film...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 03, 2012
at 02:15 AM

No, it's just non-optimal.

Medium avatar

(19479)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:42 AM

I am cool with "paleo" existing as a set of principles rather than a prescription or dogma :)

Medium avatar

(19479)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:41 AM

I think this questions (and it's responses) make it clear that the designation "paleo" may hold personal meaning, but lacks clarity when applied generally. To compare, a vegan can definitively say that "vegan" means no animal products no questions asked. A paleotarian (???) on the other hand has no such clarity. "Paleo" may mean the exclusion of certain foods, how the foods were produced, how the foods were prepared, were the foods available at a particular time, or are the foods generally considered harmless by a paleo expert/guru

Medium avatar

(19479)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:41 AM

I think this questions (and it's responses) makes it clear that the designation "paleo" may hold personal meaning, but lacks clarity when applied generally. To compare, a vegan can definitively say that "vegan" means no animal products no questions asked. A paleotarian (???) on the other hand has no such clarity. "Paleo" may mean the exclusion of certain foods, how the foods were produced, how the foods were prepared, were the foods available at a particular time, or are the foods generally considered harmless by a paleo expert/guru.

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:32 AM

I have to agree with Nance here, the cheap cuts are still too expensive. I don't know where people buy their meat but I haven't been able to find an affordable option on eatwild. Sometimes I wonder if I would be healthier eating a properly prepared legume diet than a heavy CAFO meat diet.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:23 AM

Every time I've gone to eatwild and other places I'm either ineligible because I can't buy large quantities or it's $10/lb for "cheap cuts."

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:22 AM

@AG, where do you suggest I put the 1/2 cow given that I live in an old RV with a small fridge and teeny freezer? Some people live in a rented room or small apt and we don't all have access to a local farm. Just sayin'

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 12:10 AM

Is CAFO beef a neolithic agent of disease? Now *that* is the better question! I am stealing it!

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 03, 2012
at 12:06 AM

I think that's ridiculous. Just because something I eat ate grain, does not mean I ate grain. Unless by "avoiding" you mean something like not supporting the use of, or something.

F524eaa9d58e5cd2d2368ff7bfffda9c

(480)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:57 PM

It is possible to eat pastured meats on a budget. Find a local farm, buy a 1/2 cow or cheap cuts and bones.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:21 PM

Wild-caught salmon vs CAFO beef. What sort of situation are you going to be in where those are your options? If you invoke price points for CAFO vs non-CAFO beef, I find it highly unlikely that non-CAFO beef will be priced more than wild-caught salmon.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:17 PM

Danny, just like to point out that perfection or bust has no subtleties to it. A paleo spectrum has all sorts of room for subtleties.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:10 PM

PH definitely isn't paleo, Robb Wolf even said so. :P

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:10 PM

Is CAFO beef a neolithic agent of disease?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:08 PM

Haven't watched the movie yet, still at work right now. The question is: is CAFO beef just completely non-paleo or simply sub-optimal? Can sub-optimal choices still be paleo? Or are we all sinners in the eyes of Grok?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:03 PM

"Is wild-caught salmon better than CAFO beef?" In terms of healthy food? Yes, unless you happen to be allergic to salmon.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:01 PM

But why is that the default choice, Matt? I asked the question so that folks might think more deeply. Have you watched the FRESH movie?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:28 PM

Are you talking Omega-6?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:26 PM

When I ask myself "Is that Paleo?" my wife likes to quip "No but neither is PaleoHacks...."

Medium avatar

(12379)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:18 PM

I absolutely agree that a dollar spent is a vote cast - and we do eat 90% locally sourced, organic produce, meat and wild fish. But it's not always feasible. Where I live, even the free-range eggs/dairy and wild caught fish in the grocery store are crazy $$$, and we don't have the budget for it (Sourced ahead of time fromm the farmers and fishermen it's much cheaper), so while I would love to be perfect, my life (toddler, hubby and demanding job (9+ hours/day)) leads me to purchase what's on the grocery shelf sometimes when the fridge and freezer are empty.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:03 PM

I answered what it is to me on this thread: http://paleohacks.com/questions/44924/what-is-the-paleolithic-diet/44929#44929. Coles notes - eat locally sourced real food no refined sugar, grains, artificial flavours and colours.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:58 PM

It would do far more than that. It would create far more non-CAFO farms, and the price of CAFO meat would go up, the price of grassfed/pastured organic meat would go down until it was cheaper than CAFO. Now that's a goal worth achievement in our lifetime!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:52 PM

Yes, there are many factors at play. But it's impossible to maximize every single variable. The best you can do is hope to optimize them to produce the best outcome. Could you design a perfect diet? Sure. But can most people achieve it? Probably not. Even if that was achievable, is it even worth it? That's an individual question and it's likely NOT worth it to most people. Law of diminishing returns and all...

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:46 PM

Great resource, Michelle! Thanks!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:46 PM

Indeed. I vote with my dollar every day.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:45 PM

What does Paleo mean to you, Bree?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:44 PM

This isn't about making *anyone* feel guilty. It's about recommending a seriously questionable food source instead of some healthier alternatives.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:30 PM

I ate organic, free-range vegetarian for 14 years very cheaply. If only I'd dropped the grains, legumes and veggie oils!

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:27 PM

The UK has a very different scale to the US in terms of units per CAFO production site, for sure. The issues are still the same, though.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:24 PM

Thank you for getting my question, PrimalDanny!

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:44 PM

The seeds of legumes.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:24 PM

Pulses--I'm sorry, I'm ignorant on that. Are you speaking of something plant-based?

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:18 PM

I think this is a massive variable. In the uk where I am from, a lot of places that are not organic or pature raised are no where near as bad as those places you see in vegan videos.

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:17 PM

I wonder how many upvotes that sentiment has gained in various question recently :) I think Dragonfly is suggesting that perhaps we could afford to acknowledge a few more subtleties to the discussion.

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:48 PM

Wow, that movie is powerful.

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:34 PM

Ack! I forgot about pesticides for a blissful moment. The steak I had out there was absurd too -- it was a 14oz filet mignon. That's just not normal. It was a delicious treat/cheat to be sure, but the obviousness of use of growth hormone was kind of offputting.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:29 PM

Thanks for reminding me that we are getting grains & legumes (corn & soy) via CAFO meat. No to mention all the pesticides used on the feed crops...

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12 Answers

15
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:42 PM

Of course it's not. But when it comes down to paleo with CAFO meat vs SAD with CAFO meat, the choice is obvious. Don't let perfection get in the way of improvement.

EDIT: I see the question has been modified a bit. Though I don't think my answer above changes. Obviously paleo food is better than non-paleo food. (Whether paleo food must be organic/grass-fed/insert-buzzword-here is debateable!) Is wild-caught salmon better than CAFO beef? It really is hard to say, because one is beef and one is salmon. Is an apple better than an orange?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 03, 2012
at 02:15 AM

No, it's just non-optimal.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:01 PM

But why is that the default choice, Matt? I asked the question so that folks might think more deeply. Have you watched the FRESH movie?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:26 PM

When I ask myself "Is that Paleo?" my wife likes to quip "No but neither is PaleoHacks...."

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:03 PM

"Is wild-caught salmon better than CAFO beef?" In terms of healthy food? Yes, unless you happen to be allergic to salmon.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 12:10 AM

Is CAFO beef a neolithic agent of disease? Now *that* is the better question! I am stealing it!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:52 PM

Yes, there are many factors at play. But it's impossible to maximize every single variable. The best you can do is hope to optimize them to produce the best outcome. Could you design a perfect diet? Sure. But can most people achieve it? Probably not. Even if that was achievable, is it even worth it? That's an individual question and it's likely NOT worth it to most people. Law of diminishing returns and all...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:08 PM

Haven't watched the movie yet, still at work right now. The question is: is CAFO beef just completely non-paleo or simply sub-optimal? Can sub-optimal choices still be paleo? Or are we all sinners in the eyes of Grok?

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:21 PM

Wild-caught salmon vs CAFO beef. What sort of situation are you going to be in where those are your options? If you invoke price points for CAFO vs non-CAFO beef, I find it highly unlikely that non-CAFO beef will be priced more than wild-caught salmon.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 03:50 AM

Matt~ you may change your mind after watching the film...

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:10 PM

PH definitely isn't paleo, Robb Wolf even said so. :P

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:17 PM

I wonder how many upvotes that sentiment has gained in various question recently :) I think Dragonfly is suggesting that perhaps we could afford to acknowledge a few more subtleties to the discussion.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:24 PM

Thank you for getting my question, PrimalDanny!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:17 PM

Danny, just like to point out that perfection or bust has no subtleties to it. A paleo spectrum has all sorts of room for subtleties.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:10 PM

Is CAFO beef a neolithic agent of disease?

12
2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:52 PM

In an ideal world we would all be eating organic, pasture raised animals, free from hormones and other chemical nasties. Unfortunately it's not an ideal world and not everyone has the luxury of being able to afford the, lets face it, really expensive meats! I would be worried that by being too judgemental we could be ostracising people who could really benefit by reintroducing meat into their diet, or simply just by cutting grains and vegetable oils. I think it's great to get the information out there to eat only humanely sourced meats and I support that cause fully. What I feel uncomfortable with is making people with almost no money feel guilty about the choices they have to make temporarily. Hopefully when situations for people improve, they can make even better changes, but in my humble opinion, any step in the right direction is a good one.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:44 PM

This isn't about making *anyone* feel guilty. It's about recommending a seriously questionable food source instead of some healthier alternatives.

11
Medium avatar

(12379)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:44 PM

I think we do the best that we can do to get by. Cost is a factor for many people, and eliminating many of what was previously considered filler foods (pasta, bread etc.) which is much cheaper to feed a family on can create a budget pinch in order to feed a family.

I know personally we do as much as we can - we buy our fruit and veggies from a local organic co-op, we buy our beef, lamb, pork and turkey from a local organic farmer and we also buy fish from a community supported fishery, but sometimes our order runs out, and up here in Canada buying organic meat is INSANE expensive from the grocery stores, and we can't afford to do it. So I'll buy CAFO meat (however, in Canada I think the CAFO meat is a bit better than in the US).

I definitely think it is more important to get rid of processed foods and grains first. And I definitely think that we should all support local food.

But I really don't like labelling things as paleo or not. Me no likey paleo cops

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:45 PM

What does Paleo mean to you, Bree?

Medium avatar

(12379)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:18 PM

I absolutely agree that a dollar spent is a vote cast - and we do eat 90% locally sourced, organic produce, meat and wild fish. But it's not always feasible. Where I live, even the free-range eggs/dairy and wild caught fish in the grocery store are crazy $$$, and we don't have the budget for it (Sourced ahead of time fromm the farmers and fishermen it's much cheaper), so while I would love to be perfect, my life (toddler, hubby and demanding job (9+ hours/day)) leads me to purchase what's on the grocery shelf sometimes when the fridge and freezer are empty.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:03 PM

I answered what it is to me on this thread: http://paleohacks.com/questions/44924/what-is-the-paleolithic-diet/44929#44929. Coles notes - eat locally sourced real food no refined sugar, grains, artificial flavours and colours.

6
Medium avatar

on March 02, 2012
at 06:52 PM

No.

If the most basic premise of Paleo is grain-avoidance, then by eating CAFO garbage, you are not avoiding grains.

As a side benefit, if everyone who is Paleo was able to vote with our dollars and buy only grassfed beef, it would be a significant economic boost to the independent farms that supply it, and send a clear message to the Industrial "Food" giants of the world. In a very simple view of things, grassfed is more expensive, because there isn't much demand for it. Demand it.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on March 03, 2012
at 05:48 AM

Ambimorph, both are what I meant.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 02, 2012
at 09:28 PM

Are you talking Omega-6?

Ca1150430b1904659742ce2cad621c7d

(12540)

on March 03, 2012
at 06:20 AM

*nod nod* I can't eat chicken or eggs because of the soy they eat. If I want eggs, there is only one place I can get them in the united states, and I have to have them shipped in. I don't even bother with chicken any more... It's simply not worth it from a health standpoint.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:58 PM

It would do far more than that. It would create far more non-CAFO farms, and the price of CAFO meat would go up, the price of grassfed/pastured organic meat would go down until it was cheaper than CAFO. Now that's a goal worth achievement in our lifetime!

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18706)

on March 03, 2012
at 12:06 AM

I think that's ridiculous. Just because something I eat ate grain, does not mean I ate grain. Unless by "avoiding" you mean something like not supporting the use of, or something.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on March 03, 2012
at 05:50 AM

If I eat a goat or a cow that ate grass, that doesn't mean I ate the grass, technically. But it also means that I didn't eat any toxic by-products of a broken/diseased metabolism. Know what I mean?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:46 PM

Indeed. I vote with my dollar every day.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:09 AM

Ambimorph~ I would have agreed with you, but interestingly, several moms I know can't feed their kids CAFO meat due to allergic reactions (same reactions they have to corn or soy). The kids can eat grass-fed meat, no problem.

5
8487a2f7fb8be0a568275667af0794c8

on March 03, 2012
at 02:02 AM

People need to get over themselves. Do the best you can for you and your family. If thats whats available to you and as long as your avoiding gluten, processed sugars, vegetables and legumes your healthier than 99 percent of the population.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:06 AM

Avoiding vegetables?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 03, 2012
at 04:06 AM

My whole point is that it may not be the healthiest option. Have you watched the film, Chelsea?

4
273729a18d2f18903815d2644a4d64de

(1683)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:21 PM

CAFO meat is not "Paleo" per se...yes its fatty meat, but those unhappy cows dont make for GOOD fatty meat. You are more than what you eat, but how your food was produced as well. A carrot is a carrot is a carrot right?! Wrong. Theres a difference in a conventional carrot grown in ground thats been contaminated in comparison to a "conventional" carrot grown at a local farm. Same goes for the beef. I, too, cannot afford Grassfed meats so I go for the less expensive hormone and antibiotic free meats. Auburn University has a co-op where the animals are not given hormones, antibiotics, or other crap, are pastured their entire lives (see them every day going to and from campus) AND grain fed. While not nearly as bad as CAFO meat, its still grainfed. The cows are happy, and I feel like that will play a lot into the quality of the meat (the steaks are DELICIOUS. Tender and juicy with just enough fat to blacken and enjoy at the end ;])I bought about 20 pounds of meat yesterday (chicken, beef, and pork) for about $45 dollars. If you live anywhere near an agriculture university, check and see if they have a co-op...maybe a local farmer would have cheap, good quality grass and grainfed cows?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:46 PM

Great resource, Michelle! Thanks!

4
Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:22 PM

Short answer: no. But that's a paleo-puritan idealistic answer.

One could make an argument, and best if scientific tests were done, that there is some "paleo-inspired" benefits to eliminating grains (primary sourced) although still eating CAFO meats that were fed unnatural, grain-based diets (sourced secondarily). The question I'd be curious to answer is if the benefits of the removal of the active, negative agents (e.g. gliadin) is as much or stronger of a healthy change that continuing exposure to high levels of Omega-6 is deleterious.

For me, I consider CAFO meat (and seafood like farm-raised and any US shrimp) my "cheat food". I avoid it mostly, but when out and about (like when I was on vacation in Omaha -- pretty much the grain-fed capital of the US), my friends and I had some pretty great-tasting, totally evil CAFO steaks.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:29 PM

Thanks for reminding me that we are getting grains & legumes (corn & soy) via CAFO meat. No to mention all the pesticides used on the feed crops...

Ebb10603524dd22621c1155dd7ddf106

(19150)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:34 PM

Ack! I forgot about pesticides for a blissful moment. The steak I had out there was absurd too -- it was a 14oz filet mignon. That's just not normal. It was a delicious treat/cheat to be sure, but the obviousness of use of growth hormone was kind of offputting.

3
78cb3c4f70de5db2adb52b6b9671894b

on March 29, 2012
at 03:43 AM

The only protein from animals I had was sustainably caught seafood (such as sardines and canned salmon) and pastured eggs until I found grassed beef (certified humane) at a reasonable price. I think CAFO meat is disgusting, from a health and ethical standpoint. It can easily be done if someone budgets with planning. Grassfed beef is great, but if you can't afford it, I think "safer" proteins in the meantime is just something you should do, at least for the majority of it. I'm mostly bothered by the torture of CAFO animals so I may be biased. I don't want to put that in my body.

I would give up cable, that extra shirt I might buy, eating out, walk a little longer to save on gas etc. to be able to afford quality meat.

3
F524eaa9d58e5cd2d2368ff7bfffda9c

(480)

on March 02, 2012
at 06:55 PM

No, absolutely not.

As mentioned above by eating CAFO meat you are not avoiding grain.

As well as the fact that CAFO meat represents everything which is wrong with our species. Its absolutely fucking disgusting.

Anyone who says its ok has never been inside, I have, and its EXACTLY like those horrible Vegan videos show you.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:27 PM

The UK has a very different scale to the US in terms of units per CAFO production site, for sure. The issues are still the same, though.

2507b557331c8a674bc81197531e609a

(4994)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:18 PM

I think this is a massive variable. In the uk where I am from, a lot of places that are not organic or pature raised are no where near as bad as those places you see in vegan videos.

2
D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on March 06, 2012
at 03:24 AM

Robb Wolf (ie paleo babby Jesus) says:

"Consider the following: Hippy Excuse for Failure #1: ???I can???t always find grassfed meat, so I???ll eat a bagel!???

Hippy Excuse for Failure #2 ???I can???t Always find organic/local vegetables, so I???ll eat a bagel!???

NO! We do the best we can, where we are, with what we have. Nicki and I lived on less than I did in grad school for 2 years getting the gym going. I bought bulk meat, bulk olive oil and tons of onions and cabbage because they were CHEAP. In a scenario like this I could make the argument for a 50lb bag of rice get some cheap/decent carbs If you are training. buy a can of fish oil to round things out???you are good to go.

Here are the things to get from all this: 1-You will NEVER see affordable, locally produced food if we do not push that agenda. 2-In the interim, you can do very well, on very cheap.

I???m helping some folks locally who are on disability and a fixed income of less than $8k/year to make smart choices in all this. they are looking, feeling and performing better (both have wicked autoimmune issues which are rapidly resolving) and it is cheaper than the wonder bread and other foods they were eating before.

HANG in there!! You have community here, but you just need to take care of yourself and family, and make it all work for YOU."

copied from my post here: http://paleohacks.com/questions/61260/better-no-meat-at-all-than-lower-quality-meat#ixzz1oIsYYeb2

2
Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

on March 02, 2012
at 07:23 PM

The question should be, is CAFO-based paleo the healthiest option for that budget? Every aspect of modern paleo eating is tempered by an acknowledgment that paleo foods aren't available to us in their original form. If the meat isn't healthy, is it better to eat more meat or should we look more to subsist on pulses. I know which of those has a stronger historic tradition.

F524eaa9d58e5cd2d2368ff7bfffda9c

(480)

on March 02, 2012
at 11:57 PM

It is possible to eat pastured meats on a budget. Find a local farm, buy a 1/2 cow or cheap cuts and bones.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:24 PM

Pulses--I'm sorry, I'm ignorant on that. Are you speaking of something plant-based?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on March 02, 2012
at 08:30 PM

I ate organic, free-range vegetarian for 14 years very cheaply. If only I'd dropped the grains, legumes and veggie oils!

742ff8ba4ff55e84593ede14ac1c3cab

(3536)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:32 AM

I have to agree with Nance here, the cheap cuts are still too expensive. I don't know where people buy their meat but I haven't been able to find an affordable option on eatwild. Sometimes I wonder if I would be healthier eating a properly prepared legume diet than a heavy CAFO meat diet.

Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

(5198)

on March 02, 2012
at 07:44 PM

The seeds of legumes.

D0952bfcc8728e24d32049dc9513b7a0

on March 03, 2012
at 04:00 AM

Agreed Nance and Rob, in my area grassfed beef is $6.75+/lb, and the smallest order you can place is 80 lbs. Definitely not feasible with my part-time job/full-time student budget.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:22 AM

@AG, where do you suggest I put the 1/2 cow given that I live in an old RV with a small fridge and teeny freezer? Some people live in a rented room or small apt and we don't all have access to a local farm. Just sayin'

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 03, 2012
at 01:23 AM

Every time I've gone to eatwild and other places I'm either ineligible because I can't buy large quantities or it's $10/lb for "cheap cuts."

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on March 06, 2012
at 04:49 AM

If you can get it...just eat only the ground beef and divide a pound into 3 meals.

1
3c997ffae3db9464325b96979346d9e9

on March 03, 2012
at 01:13 AM

It's not OK, improvise and budget if need be. You don't need to eat it everyday or the absurd amounts of meat eaten at one sitting posted by some here (which raises uric acid levels and is harmful to the liver and kidneys)

3c997ffae3db9464325b96979346d9e9

(1290)

on March 03, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Grass fed organ meats are cheaper (and healthier) than muscle meat...Whole Foods sells great wild caught canned red salmon for $2.50 for 7 ounces...No CAFO- rise above the narcissism, make a statement and shut down a horrific industry

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