6

votes

Gluconeogensis vs safe starches-- hormonal/longevity issues

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created August 17, 2012 at 8:59 PM

What are the main differences in how someone processes glucose from the diet vs gluconeogenesis?

Paul Jaminet, a seriously smart cookie and charming guy, writes we need a certain number of grams of glucose a day and can create it through gluconeogenesis in protein. He advocates eating less than your body needs so you are still activating the gluconeogenesis pathway.

Low carbers and circadian Krusers:

Help me understand your argument better. What is not clear to me are how eating 100g of starch a day in a the context of a high fat diet would be more deleterious than creating the glucose from protein. The high fat content would lower the blood glucose spikes.

Does gluconeogensis create more/less igf-1 or insulin?

Lets assume the person in question ingesting the "safe starches" or keto-ic gluconeogenesis diet is not insulin resistant.

I would guess that gluconeogenesis might have a slower onset vs the sudden injestion of sugars that can spike with ingested carbs being processed at one time.

Inquiring minds want to know.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 19, 2012
at 03:00 PM

ThinnerStrength: It has a lot of say: http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 18, 2012
at 01:45 AM

Interesting points as to precursors. Look forward to reading your post.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 18, 2012
at 12:19 AM

That is a funny and insightful comment Mscott.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on August 17, 2012
at 11:31 PM

I wonder if people over at bizzaro paleohacks say the same things about cholesterol biosynthesis.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 17, 2012
at 10:59 PM

How much say does the body have in turning excess protein into sugar?

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 17, 2012
at 10:50 PM

That's why I always thought it might be better to just trust my body to make its own glucose rather than try to manage it myself.

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 17, 2012
at 10:49 PM

That's why I always thought since I might be better off letting my body make what it needs rather than try to manage it myself.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 17, 2012
at 10:09 PM

Paul Jaminet writes to me that "The body tries to conserve protein stores so relying on gluconeogenesis for glucose, as opposed to eating it, downregulates glucose utilization."

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 17, 2012
at 09:20 PM

Continued-- "The key point is that what happens at the liver is a big deal and is controlled by enzyme PEPCK"

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 17, 2012
at 09:18 PM

Your friendly neighborhood nameless neurosurgeon responded with this on facebook: "If one is LR gluconeogenesis is broken at liver, brain, and muscle layers and this will lower your IGF1 because your HS CRP is rising due to the cytokine storm of LR. Insulin would go higher but you would not respond because the receptors would be resistant."

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4 Answers

5
64433a05384cd9717c1aa6bf7e98b661

(15236)

on August 17, 2012
at 10:13 PM

In addition to what Drs Kruse and Jaminet said, I think an important distinction is that gluconeogenesis is regulated by internal feedback mechanisms. Safe starches are regulated by who puts the food on our plate and how big of a portion it is.

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 17, 2012
at 10:49 PM

That's why I always thought since I might be better off letting my body make what it needs rather than try to manage it myself.

F9638b939a6f85d67f60065677193cad

(4266)

on August 17, 2012
at 10:50 PM

That's why I always thought it might be better to just trust my body to make its own glucose rather than try to manage it myself.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on August 17, 2012
at 11:31 PM

I wonder if people over at bizzaro paleohacks say the same things about cholesterol biosynthesis.

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 17, 2012
at 10:59 PM

How much say does the body have in turning excess protein into sugar?

43f469552cfd3be73fc88a9821b14986

on August 18, 2012
at 12:19 AM

That is a funny and insightful comment Mscott.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on August 19, 2012
at 03:00 PM

ThinnerStrength: It has a lot of say: http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

4
5dffdd2f807170dcc66d6d687f4e2ba4

on August 17, 2012
at 11:50 PM

There are big differences between eating the sugar and having your body make it, such as similar to what Diane notes; the body is much more adept in knowing where and when the glucose is needed. The difference also depends on the precursor used; far better to use glycerol from fat, lactate, and ketones themselves than amino acids, that need hardly be used at all, if properly adapted to my diet. Most important is the effect on hormones such as insulin and leptin that glucose will raise that in turn has a major adverse impact on repair and the longevity phenotype exemplified by calorie restriction. I address this very issue in my next blog post summarizing the safe starch debate by posing 4 questions including the above, that I answer. This should go up tonight or tomorrow morning. Thanks for the question.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 18, 2012
at 01:45 AM

Interesting points as to precursors. Look forward to reading your post.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 18, 2012
at 03:13 AM

Does gluconeogenesis create more/less igf-1 or insulin?

NB: The arrow of causality is in the other direction.

Where gluconeogenesis = GN,

promotes GN: glucagon, growth hormone

inhibits GN: insulin, IGF-1

Remember, 3 ways to increase blood glucose: exogenously (eating carbs), glycogenolysis (breaking down glycogen stored in liver and muscle) and GN (synthesising glucose from proteins, glycerol and lactic acid)

The rate of glucose produced via GN can never match that of exogenous intake and only briefly matches that of glycogenolysis. Consequently, the effect on insulin is minor.

2
1a4cea849e43bd461de2842679681820

on August 17, 2012
at 11:07 PM

There are big differences between eating the sugar and having your body make it. I address this very issue in my next blog post that should go up tonight or tomorrow morning. Thanks for the question.

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