2

votes

Females=Masculine and Males=Feminine?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created February 01, 2013 at 6:10 AM

Maybe this is just me, but have you noticed that most females today are very masculine in nature and males are more feminine? (I am female by the way) Is it the food/water that we are eating/drinking(affecting hormones) or is it culture/media or did it start with feminism or all of the above? I have also noticed males' height getting shorter and shorter.(I don't know if that is related)There might be some of you who misundersand this post and think I am talking about appearances, I assure you I am not, there is something just off and reversed about our men and women of today.

I am very sorry if this post offended anyone and please forgive me, that is not my intention. Honestly I have been pondering this for about 4-5 years.

I also think this is very relevant to Paleo and humanity in general.

7eba3d743671649c1e06cacce0ba4e77

(1423)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:56 PM

Thank you so much Amy for the recommendation. I just looked up the Pottenger's Cats study and it is very interesting, and this is the exact thing that I feel is happening. I will be looking into it further.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:27 PM

Yeah, there is a big PC crowd in here. Come on...this and August are right on. Nothing wrong with speaking in terms of masculine and feminine traits Unless we are becoming a bunch of amoebas I guess.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:15 PM

+1. 0.9 of which go to the beer comment. Keen observation.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:14 PM

+ .1 for the whole of it, and +.9 for the beer drinkers comment.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 05:52 PM

True! So true!:)

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:58 PM

Disgaree: "Our fundamental bone structure/production of sex hormones (those things that cause to appear/act more masculine/feminine) are not affected by what we eat."

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:56 PM

Very good answer. I especially love this: "I for one could not fix your car engine if you broke down, but I could bake you a mean tarte tatin."

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:53 PM

Pottenger's Cats, baby. Pottenger's cats.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:52 PM

Have you studies Pottenger's Cats? This is that coming to fruition in human beings instead of cats. Males are becoming more docile and females more aggressive.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:52 PM

The general trend for the past few generations has been to be taller, but the subsidized stuff, especially soy, is effecting the current generation. We could see a very quick drop off.

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:48 PM

Peacocks- the noticeable ones- are invariably male. Also, I am certainly taller than my father, but it is highly doubtful my niece and nephews are going to be taller than me. This is in part due to the short people my siblings seem to favor, but also due to the fact they are more likely to be bottle fed and fed crap than I was. Mom got some stuff wrong (soy milk?) but she was trying, so I probably got better nutrition than most in my cohort. So, I don't think past performance is predictive here.

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on February 01, 2013
at 12:15 PM

But if diet effects hormones then surely it does. Also parental exposure to toxins has been shown to cause genetic problems for future generations.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:42 AM

Our fundamental bone structure is affected by what our parents eat. Directly.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:41 AM

I define femininity in terms of "well adapted for child bearing and rearing". If is shaped as a banana, not sure how healthy her kids would be.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:39 AM

Partially true. An hourglass figure and full lips are feminine in ALL CULTURES. 6 pack on a guy is masculine in ALL CULTURES.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 01, 2013
at 07:05 AM

And I'm not sure that men have been getting "shorter and shorter." At least in the UK, we've been getting taller for ages.

E35e3d76547b18096a59c90029e7e107

(15613)

on February 01, 2013
at 07:04 AM

What's the comparison class? Presumably not the paleolithic or pre-industrial cultures, so do you just mean compared to your childhood memories of men/women?

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8 Answers

6
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20898)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:07 PM

Came here to say basically what August said: it's the xenoestrogens in our environment that are screwing us up. Soy, hops (ever notice how girly beer lovers are?), and plastics are everywhere and they contain tons of xenoestrogens. For guys, what this means is that the xenoestrogens mimic estrogen and change the estrogen/testosterone ratio and make guys more girly. For girls, xenoestrogens both act as a weaker estrogen but bind more tightly to estrogen receptors. That means that a xenoestrogen effectively blocks real estrogen making the effective estrogen level lower in women pushing them to be more manly.

There's more to the story, but the environment, including our diet, is really screwing us all up.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:15 PM

+1. 0.9 of which go to the beer comment. Keen observation.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:27 PM

Yeah, there is a big PC crowd in here. Come on...this and August are right on. Nothing wrong with speaking in terms of masculine and feminine traits Unless we are becoming a bunch of amoebas I guess.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:14 PM

+ .1 for the whole of it, and +.9 for the beer drinkers comment.

6
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41757)

on February 01, 2013
at 03:21 PM

Gender roles are in constant flux. Perceptions of beauty/ideal is in constant flux.

How masculine was this guy?

females=masculine-and-males=feminine?

Not sure your impression of human height trends is accurate. N=1, my family is continuing to get taller with subsequent generations. But that trend seems to be observed worldwide... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height#History_of_human_height

7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:48 PM

Peacocks- the noticeable ones- are invariably male. Also, I am certainly taller than my father, but it is highly doubtful my niece and nephews are going to be taller than me. This is in part due to the short people my siblings seem to favor, but also due to the fact they are more likely to be bottle fed and fed crap than I was. Mom got some stuff wrong (soy milk?) but she was trying, so I probably got better nutrition than most in my cohort. So, I don't think past performance is predictive here.

5
Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:13 AM

Where are you looking, because big cities will have huge demographic shifts.

Frequent certain London nightclubs at 6am on a Sunday morning and you can see a whole cocktail of gender blurring. But I do think (in terms of big cities) you can see the definition of gender being diluted; whether this is a good thing is debatable of course.

I see no reason to doubt the effect that the chemical concoction is having on us and our gender expression and personalities. But watch the next generation coming up that have from birth been bombarded with not only poor diet but huge amounts of sexual imagery and theme. There is something pretty wrong when you in a shop and you hear a 7 year old girl singing a current pop song with lyrics about 'taking a dirty picture to send to her boyfriend because he loves her' while paying for a bag of sweets with her mum.

In terms of general masculine/feminine traits, again I am not sure overall, I mean how do you define it nowadays? As soon as you say 'a man is like this, a woman is like this' you get bonked on the head for being biased. There is a growing tide of the want to remove the division and definition.

There are also those weird things like girl's styling is now clown/stripper with huge platform heels, inch-long fake eyelashes and enough make-up to sink a battleship. Men are spending hours on their hair, shaving their chests clean and wearing clothing that at times seems to be kind of homoerotic geriatric. Also I remember I stopped playing video games at 18 because ummm I was no longer a kid, yet nowadays the average age for a video game player is 37.

But it gets slightly more tricky too, I for one could not fix your car engine if you broke down, but I could bake you a mean tarte tatin.

I think this sort of thing is hugely complicated, I mean CrossFit is only just kicking off here in the UK, and I am yet to meet a girl who can squat twice my weight. Most girls here basically lift pints of beer.

I would like to ask her (a Crossfit girl) how she personally defines feminine. 'Strong is the new Sexy' and I agree it is very sexy indeed, but has this come about because men are getting progressively weaker or perhaps just perhaps simply girls want to get strong because there is no reason not to.

My best-friend can kick my ass in air-squats and legwork, I can kick her's in upper-body strength, we are both training for muddy obstacle races, but she sure looks far better in a dress and tango heels then I ever would. And when we embrace she goes underneath and lets me hug her, loves when I choose the restaurant and wait till she sits down first, but she would categorically be the first person you would want around in a zombie attack.

Femininity and masculinity are pretty tricky to define nowadays...

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:56 PM

Very good answer. I especially love this: "I for one could not fix your car engine if you broke down, but I could bake you a mean tarte tatin."

4
0f2cd316c08a5499ad23bcf54369b314

(80)

on February 01, 2013
at 02:12 PM

Erm... It's just that gender roles/stereotypes are getting weaker and people can express themselves and their nature more easily. That is a good thing. There is naturally variety in human gender/gender expression expression and it's healthy.

4
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 06:54 AM

I have noticed that too... but it is not universal. I mean, not in most countries. Although the trend is obvious.

I basically have an unconfirmed theory that everything in our history is tied to our biology which is tied to our nutrition. How do we know that the wars are not connected to food supply? I believe that at some point changes in food sources affect populations en masse and influence historical events directly.

In the States that would be introducing breakfast cereals, hot pockets and other convenience foods as comfort foods.

In Eastern Europe, where I live, the changes are quite dramatic. In less than 10 years people were taught to eat Snickers, Mars bars, etc. And the cost is - hyper babies, narrow jaws, feminization/masculinization, acne.

I mean now I understand when the old generation used to say, "In our times there were no things like that". Sure - during their times there were no mass culture with candy bar production!

But if you go around the word, there are still plenty of places (although somewhat less and less) where the guys are still guys and the gals are still feminine.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 05:52 PM

True! So true!:)

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:53 PM

Pottenger's Cats, baby. Pottenger's cats.

2
4357ae212ae4864ebdacc1656594087d

on February 01, 2013
at 10:21 AM

In fact, "masculinization" and "feminization" have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with diet, but genetics, and biological anthropology. Attractiveness/genderedness in all cultures is differently measured, whether you are speaking of height, facial features, or hormonal behavior. Just look at the wives of Nasreddin Shah, the Persian king, born in 1848. They all bear facial hair and have thick, heavy set features, resembling men almost exactly. Yet they were considered the most beautiful WOMEN of their time, and being raised in the countryside this has nothing to do with diet... rather culture, habit, and aesthetic standards.

I would argue that today you perceive men as more "feminine" and females as more "masculine" because the gender hierarchy and differences have been weakened in Western culture, where females are not urged constantly to present as hyperfeminine, and men, likewise, in order to fit into society do not have to be bearded, muscular machos. Perhaps this was the case in the 1950s, but has little do with our food. Our fundamental bone structure/production of sex hormones (those things that cause to appear/act more masculine/feminine) are not affected by what we eat. What IS affected by the external addition of testosterone/estrogen is behavior and mood.... lower/higher sex drive, aggression, depression, weight gain. But this has nothing to do with whether someone is more "masculine" in nature or "feminine."

(source: lesseons taught by biology, anthropology, and neurology courses in college)

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:39 AM

Partially true. An hourglass figure and full lips are feminine in ALL CULTURES. 6 pack on a guy is masculine in ALL CULTURES.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:41 AM

I define femininity in terms of "well adapted for child bearing and rearing". If is shaped as a banana, not sure how healthy her kids would be.

Ca2c940a1947e6200883908592956680

(8574)

on February 01, 2013
at 12:15 PM

But if diet effects hormones then surely it does. Also parental exposure to toxins has been shown to cause genetic problems for future generations.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on February 01, 2013
at 10:42 AM

Our fundamental bone structure is affected by what our parents eat. Directly.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on February 01, 2013
at 04:58 PM

Disgaree: "Our fundamental bone structure/production of sex hormones (those things that cause to appear/act more masculine/feminine) are not affected by what we eat."

1
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on February 01, 2013
at 03:29 PM

Yes. Omega-6 & soy are probably among the largest factors. The xeno-estrogens in the environment no doubt play a role, though exposure varies (I really don't like touching receipt paper).

They push the hormone profile away from normal, and there does seem to be some evidence (even if it is just anecdotal) that the hormone ratios are being effected in a way that would cause women to be more manly, and men to be more feminine. Of course, you have no doubt seen answers in this thread that suggest gender is largely a social construct; and I am of the mindset that people who hold such views aren't too worried about dumping the sort of agents that contribute to this sort of thing into the drinking water. Such things have been discussed as policy ideas, and if you have an ideology of moral relativism and gender plasticity, well, what a great way to prove yourself right.

I have certainly noticed a masculinization of sorts- the good kind, since I am male- since I took up a more paleo lifestyle. I have also begun to think, especially for certain really bad cases, therapies involving steroids may be a good idea. One of the things that worries me is the effects the current standard American everything could have multiple generations out. Pottenger's cats come to mind. It is best to identify and take measures against these things now, rather than have to watch our future generations suffer.

0
A048b66e08306d405986b6c04bf5e8e4

on February 01, 2013
at 07:58 PM

It's all possibilities, considering how gender roles and what's considered "masculine" and "feminine". I'm the only female in a group of male friends, and I'm the only one who isn't sporting the pregnant woman look, even though I'm the only one who could actually pull it off.

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