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Date Syrup. How does it differ from Maple Syrup or Honey with regards to insulin spikes?

Commented on June 12, 2014
Created June 11, 2014 at 12:01 PM

Can date syrup (thick and sticky black syrup extracted from dates after boiling) be used as a substitute for maple syrup and honey? Which is the best sweetner that doesn't spike insulin levels too much?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 12, 2014
at 03:09 PM

And BTW Matt, I pouted, but I did not leave!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 12, 2014
at 09:54 AM

I knew that raisins were satan's rabbit droppings, and now I know that honey is bee vomit. Thanks for improving my paleo education!

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 12, 2014
at 02:34 AM

Matt , did you only close this question because she picked me as the best answer instead of you?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 11:54 PM

I tried, but once you start quoting mercola, I think it's time for tough love.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on June 11, 2014
at 11:36 PM

Paul also recommends tapioca syrup. I seem to recall Paul mentioning that he may rate it just above rice syrup in recent times, cannot recall exact reason, it was either because a) white rice syrup is hard to find (usually brown) or b) potential trace amounts of lead depending on the source of the rice (or that may have been more to do with rice itself than the syrup) http://perfecthealthdiet.com/recommended-supplements/

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 11, 2014
at 10:42 PM

Lol @CDone, your answers would probably still be here if you were a little sweeter when you talked, if you were a sweet talker like me ;).

0bc176844623a6e5187ca527adb96328

(18)

on June 11, 2014
at 10:13 PM

From restaurant chef to being in charge of people who are in charge of large data centers. Who are you @cdone? #mysteriousbackground

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 09:53 PM

you should have seen all my great answers the OP deleted. But at least we know she's a serious Mercola supporter -- once you get proven wrong, delete and pretend it never happened.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 09:52 PM

came close. When I got back from swab summer, the summer before senior year in high school. The restaurant I had worked out was closed and the chef-owner filed for bankrupcy. Made me change career paths.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 11, 2014
at 09:08 PM

@cdone, you went to Cordon Bleu for college, right?

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 08:31 PM

please learn how to use comments.

The word used to describe date syrup in Turkish is suyu which roughly translates into juice. The word used to describe molasses is şurubu which roughly translates into what american's think of syrup. Culinarily speaking, the term "Date Syrup" refers to a raw product. Whether the translation gets confused is not on the table.

Again, GI does not measure how sugars in food affect your, my, or anyone's glucose levels. They are approximations based on reference assumptions.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 08:22 PM

but they are biochemically different. you should know that, given your doctorate and everything. But Mercola is right, Dr.s cannot be trusted.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 11, 2014
at 08:17 PM

Oh look, random-ass science-y sounding numbers! Who knows where Mercola came up with them… Typical numbers show somewhere around 95-97% NaCl. A smattering of potassium and calcium sulfates (2-3%)… If you're talking trace minerals, let's look at iron content… around 40 ppm. In 1 gram of salt that's 0.04 mg of Iron, and for perspective the RDA is around 10 mg. To even meet 10% of your daily needs, you'd consume 25 grams of your cutesy pink salt. All other mineral content is even lower than that. And that's probably good, because many of those 84 touted minerals are in fact toxic.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 08:07 PM

Yes, I worked in the kitchen of a middle eastern restaurant, I know exactly how date syrup is made. I've made it dozens, if not 100s if times.

Date syrup is, by definition, a raw product. When you filter out the pulp and boil out water you create Date Molasses

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 07:58 PM

GI and GL are different, but I wouldn't use either to decide what I should eat to minimize insulin spikes. Technically they are not averages, they are approximation based on reference assumptions. Do you know what reference assumptions in dynamical systems are? Glycemic index does not measure insulin reaction to a food.

Personally, if I cared about such things, I would use a blood glucose meter.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 07:24 PM

Culinary, that is not true. Maybe the crap you buy from the store, but date syrup is, by definition, a raw product. Glycemic load is an average -- it holds true for a population, not person-to-person. Not a good measurement to make decisions by.

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 07:10 PM

What you just explained, i already know. I am pretty aware of how Maple Syrup is extracted and how Honey is. My question was how they differ in Glycemic load :). Date Syrup is quite refined, not just dates blended with water. Dates blended with water makes it into a Date Paste which is full of fibre. Date Syrup on the other hand is made by Dates blended with Water then extracting the liquid out of it then boiling it into a thick black sticky syrup.

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:40 PM

Lol! :P Its pretty in pink!

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:38 PM

Oh crap, Mercola just got quoted. Ok people, forget logic, we've got a Merc....

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:37 PM

But it's pink! And Pink is so pretty. What do you know living in a drab castle...

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:37 PM

Look mister. Keep up this "critical thinking" crap and we are going to have to label you "Non-Paleo". Thinking is a neolithic agent of disease.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:34 PM

sweet talker....

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:31 PM

I would be afraid to give rice syrup a try as it is quite processed. I try to stick to minimally processed.

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:30 PM

Hi Desmond, do you use it? How does it taste? I would be afraid to give rice syrup a try as it is quite processed. I try to stick to minimally processed. Thanks

86c97b2779feab3c330f5e1c5fea7e25

(2312)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:19 PM

Yeah I know the Perfect Health Diet recommends Rice Syrup if you need a sweetner

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:17 PM

Hi, thanks for your answer. I do know about Rice Syrup. Didn't know it had such a low GI. But then so does Agave! I will look into it though. Such a mission finding the perfect sweetener for everyday use! Thanks.

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 05:41 PM

Himalayan salt is unprocessed and purely natural and boasts healing benefits due to its trace minerals. Seems like himalayan is not much different than table salt to you? You made a similar comparison earlier with processed table sugar compared to natural sweeteners such as raw honey (which despite being high in fructose) has healing benefits too which cane sugar and other processed sugars don't have.

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 05:18 PM

Hi Stephen, thanks for the answer. I do agree with it. Date Syrup is processed as all the fibre is removed. I get the point that it is better to consume sugars with fibre as it has a more steady effect on blood sugar levels. Table sugar freaks me out due to being highly processed, possibly GMO and obviously for being non-paleo!

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 11, 2014
at 02:52 PM

We'll be at your house tomorrow morning at 6 am. But since you already have 3 warnings and 2 citations, you're looking at a few weeks in the big house for this misstep mister. Tell your loved ones you'll miss them and get your affairs in order, we'll be seeing you soon.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 11, 2014
at 02:22 PM

And do not fool yourself into thinking that a paltry amount of minerals redeems your odd sugar source… it doesn't. I made this point recently with someone who was a fan of Himalayan pink salt. The amount of minerals in it was so low, that the serving necessary for a meaningful amount of minerals was insanely high.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 11, 2014
at 02:16 PM

Sure, it's not paleo. But just because something is made from "paleo-approved" ingredients doesn't mean it's paleo. Call a spade, a spade. To paraphrase Robb Wolf: A paleo cookie is still a cookie, dammit!

Sugar itself is not the problem either. It's excess sugar that increases dietary energy beyond what is needed.

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 11, 2014
at 02:13 PM

Apparently I'm not paleo enough… when should I expect the paleo police to confiscate my paleo membership card?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 11, 2014
at 01:31 PM

@Matt 11, how could you be so naive?

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 01:01 PM

Matt, table sugar isn't Paleo. All sugars aren't the same (Cane Sugar, Molasses, Honey, Maple Syrup, Dates etc). They are biochemically different with different amounts of fructose-glucose-sucrose ratio and their mineral content when taken into consideration.

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8 Answers

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0
Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 11, 2014
at 01:48 PM

Hi @Paleoista, I see that you're looking for a nice sweetener that doesn't spike insulin since insulin spikes are bad! I completely agree with that since insulin spikes, instead of steady insulin levels could likely lead towards insulin resistance and a host of other ill effects.

That being said, fructose rich, fiber void alternatives are likely not the answer either as fructose is even worse than sugar in some situations at causing insulin resistance, increasing abdominal fat, triglycerides, and heart disease. Please try not to be that hard on @Matt 11 by remembering that the high fructose, processed, fiber void alternatives that you are considering aren't any more paleo or healthy than the basic table sugar that @Matt 11 recommended.

  1. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-19/news...
  2. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive...
  3. http://examine.com/faq/is-hfcs-high-fructose-corn-...
  4. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/0...
  5. http://grist.org/article/researchers-yes-hfcs-is-m...
  6. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eatingwell/sugar-cor...

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:34 PM

sweet talker....

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 05:18 PM

Hi Stephen, thanks for the answer. I do agree with it. Date Syrup is processed as all the fibre is removed. I get the point that it is better to consume sugars with fibre as it has a more steady effect on blood sugar levels. Table sugar freaks me out due to being highly processed, possibly GMO and obviously for being non-paleo!

0
537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

on June 11, 2014
at 08:21 PM

I live in a middle eastern country and have never come across anything as Dates Molasses, instead they call what you are referring to as Molasses, "Syrup" and thats how its made so thats why i couldn't accept it being raw and unprocessed. Yeah Glycemic Index isn't the measurement of insulin reaction but it does measure how sugars in food affect our glucose levels and yes i take insulin spikes seriously. I am more conceded about Glycemic load than Glycemic index.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 08:31 PM

please learn how to use comments.

The word used to describe date syrup in Turkish is suyu which roughly translates into juice. The word used to describe molasses is şurubu which roughly translates into what american's think of syrup. Culinarily speaking, the term "Date Syrup" refers to a raw product. Whether the translation gets confused is not on the table.

Again, GI does not measure how sugars in food affect your, my, or anyone's glucose levels. They are approximations based on reference assumptions.

0
537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

on June 11, 2014
at 07:41 PM

seriously? GI isn't a good measurement to make decisions by? Now this has got to be your own belief! GI is an average but it helps you keep an eye on foods that affect your blood sugar in different ways. I personally know how GI controlled diet works wonders! Plus GI varies for different types of sugars. Also have you ever tried making date syrup yourself? do you know how exactly its made? i don't touch anything unless i know whats in it and how it was produced. Date paste is a raw product not Date syrup as it is boiled down to a sticky syrup.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 07:58 PM

GI and GL are different, but I wouldn't use either to decide what I should eat to minimize insulin spikes. Technically they are not averages, they are approximation based on reference assumptions. Do you know what reference assumptions in dynamical systems are? Glycemic index does not measure insulin reaction to a food.

Personally, if I cared about such things, I would use a blood glucose meter.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 08:07 PM

Yes, I worked in the kitchen of a middle eastern restaurant, I know exactly how date syrup is made. I've made it dozens, if not 100s if times.

Date syrup is, by definition, a raw product. When you filter out the pulp and boil out water you create Date Molasses

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:47 PM

Date Syrup differs from Maple Syrup in that it's made by blending dates and water not by boiling the water out of the sap from maple trees.

It differs from honey in that it's made by blending dates and water, and is not bee nectar vomit.

At the end of the day sweeteners are primarily sugar. Date Syrup (if you make it yourself) will have more fiber left over which is a good thing. But it is such a modest difference that if you are not 100% dialed-in already -- the difference will be negligible.

There are sweetners like stevia, sweet basil, etc that are not sugar based (and have minor insulin spikes if any) -- you may want to investigate those -- or you may want to work on eliminating your sweet tooth.

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 07:10 PM

What you just explained, i already know. I am pretty aware of how Maple Syrup is extracted and how Honey is. My question was how they differ in Glycemic load :). Date Syrup is quite refined, not just dates blended with water. Dates blended with water makes it into a Date Paste which is full of fibre. Date Syrup on the other hand is made by Dates blended with Water then extracting the liquid out of it then boiling it into a thick black sticky syrup.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 12, 2014
at 09:54 AM

I knew that raisins were satan's rabbit droppings, and now I know that honey is bee vomit. Thanks for improving my paleo education!

0
86c97b2779feab3c330f5e1c5fea7e25

(2312)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:09 PM

Have you looked into Rice Syrup? I believe it has the lowest (if none) fructose of all sweeteners. Don't quote me on that but worth looking into.

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:17 PM

Hi, thanks for your answer. I do know about Rice Syrup. Didn't know it had such a low GI. But then so does Agave! I will look into it though. Such a mission finding the perfect sweetener for everyday use! Thanks.

0
537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

on June 11, 2014
at 05:37 PM

@Matt 11

Himalayan salt is unprocessed and purely natural and boasts healing benefits due to its trace minerals. Seems like himalayan is not much different than table salt to you? You made a similar comparison earlier with processed table sugar compared to natural sweeteners such as raw honey (which despite being high in fructose) has healing benefits too which cane sugar and other processed sugars don't have.

Dr. Mercola quotes: " All forms of salt are not equal.

Type of Salt Matters

Today's table salt has practically nothing in common with natural salt. One is health damaging, and the other is healing. Natural salt is 84 percent sodium chloride, and processed salt is 98 percent.So, what comprises the rest?

The remaining 16 percent of natural salt consists of other naturally occurring minerals, including trace minerals like silicon, phosphorous and vanadium. But the remaining two percent of processed salt is comprised of man-made chemicals, such as moisture absorbents, and a little added iodine.

You might be tempted to think "salt is salt," but even the structure of processed salt has been radically altered in the refining process. Refined salt is dried above 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit, and this excessive heat alone alters the natural chemical structure of the salt. What remains after ordinary table salt is chemically "cleaned" is sodium chloride,

The processed salt is not pure sodium chloride but is only 97.5 percent sodium chloride and anticaking and flow agents are added to compromise about 2.5 percent. These are dangerous chemicals like ferrocyanide and aluminosilicate. Some European countries, where water fluoridation is not practiced, also add fluoride to table salt. In France, 35 percent of table salt sold contains either sodium fluoride or potassium fluoride and use of fluoridated salt is widespread in South America.

Salt as Nature Intended it: Himalayan Crystal Salt

The more you can move toward a diet of whole organic foods in their natural state, the healthier you'll be—whether it's veggies, meat, dairy products, or salt.

Given that salt is absolutely essential to good health, I recommend switching to a pure, unrefined salt. My favorite is an ancient, all-natural sea salt from the Himalayas.

Himalayan salt is very special. It is completely pure, having spent many thousands of years maturing under extreme tectonic pressure, far away from impurities, so it isn't polluted with the heavy metals and industrial toxins of today. And it's hand-mined, hand-washed, and minimally processed. Himalayan salt is only 85 percent sodium chloride, the remaining 15 percent contains 84 trace minerals from our prehistoric seas. These trace minerals are important for, among other things, good bone health, as explained by Dr. Robert Thompson in his book The Calcium Lie.

It's also the most delicious salt you'll ever find—so much so that I always caution people before they use it because once most people taste it, they have a very difficult time ever using conventional salt again. That is one of the reasons why so many gourmet chefs exclusively use this salt.

So, please, relax and salt your food to taste, provided the salt you're using is natural and unrefined. If you are exercising heavily, or in the middle of a heat wave, you may require more salt than on a cool day when you're relaxing. And remember, the more processed foods you consume, the higher your sodium will be, as it is hidden is just about everything that comes in a box or can. And of course, this is NOT the kind of salt your body needs.

So there you have it, the sodium myth debunked.

Source:http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/09/20/salt-myth.aspx

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on June 11, 2014
at 06:38 PM

Oh crap, Mercola just got quoted. Ok people, forget logic, we've got a Merc....

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 11, 2014
at 08:17 PM

Oh look, random-ass science-y sounding numbers! Who knows where Mercola came up with them… Typical numbers show somewhere around 95-97% NaCl. A smattering of potassium and calcium sulfates (2-3%)… If you're talking trace minerals, let's look at iron content… around 40 ppm. In 1 gram of salt that's 0.04 mg of Iron, and for perspective the RDA is around 10 mg. To even meet 10% of your daily needs, you'd consume 25 grams of your cutesy pink salt. All other mineral content is even lower than that. And that's probably good, because many of those 84 touted minerals are in fact toxic.

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on June 11, 2014
at 12:49 PM

Sucrose (table sugar) has a glycemic index of 65, maple syrup 50, pure fructose 25. I couldn't find date syrup but it's probably a little higher than fructose. The dry date sugar I've had was not purified - just pulverized dates - which contain a lot of indigestible fiber. This would have less glycemic effect (insulin spiking) than fructose.

http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide.com/glycemic-...

0
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on June 11, 2014
at 12:22 PM

Dates are high in fructose which is non-insulin spiking. Sugar is sugar though, why not just consume a moderate amount of table sugar if you need a sweetener?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on June 12, 2014
at 02:34 AM

Matt , did you only close this question because she picked me as the best answer instead of you?

537af33098ddcd2804245c43fe99756c

(0)

on June 11, 2014
at 01:01 PM

Matt, table sugar isn't Paleo. All sugars aren't the same (Cane Sugar, Molasses, Honey, Maple Syrup, Dates etc). They are biochemically different with different amounts of fructose-glucose-sucrose ratio and their mineral content when taken into consideration.

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