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votes

What do you think about homeopathy?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created August 01, 2011 at 7:49 AM

Do you have any positive experieces. My father used to do this. I think it some how working. especially for usage of poison plants and substances.

I have used athroposophic substances and its a strange feeling. i dont realy know if its positive or negative.

it has a effect for sure.i think more than just sugar.

anthroposophic is also like homeopathic, its a bit different in its alchemistic way.its based on thoughts of rudolf steinar.

518be53d5bdcf1d04fcb1a171bd3f0b1

(187)

on September 02, 2011
at 10:08 AM

How can you be so sure it doesn't work? I can be sure it does work because I have experience of it working over and over again. I can understand anyone saying they can't see how it can work but to be convinced it doesn't when you have no experience of it not working... I agree it defies logic but to assume we understand how everything works is just arrogant. I will continue to use it knowing from experience that I am right in my choice.

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:58 PM

You're welcome, Pieter D!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 11:16 AM

i hard on arnica homeopathic and hypericum.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 01:07 AM

@Kamal - so either email me at guitaravind@gmail.com or give me your real email address :-)

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:05 AM

^^^^^^^ oh, u so funny kamal. i die.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:04 AM

^^^^^ oh, u so funny kamal.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:54 PM

Yes! Indian buffet would be spectacular. I'll email you my contact info. Or you can contact me at chunkylover53@aol.com.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:33 PM

I was cynical until I had some AMAZING experiences with hypnosis and TCM. I began my biochem career at The Salk Institute and ended up a patient in university studies of faith healers, a leap into the unknown and unexpected to say the least. I've learned more about TCM and believe the majority of it is less Woo, more science, but time will tell. Paleo has only increased my interest in TCM as so much is based on understanding change, flow, and balance. We chase balance daily and there is nothing wrong with that!

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 07:29 PM

+1 Nice answer Darth KaMaul. So maybe you didn't see my other response to your comment (about Lion-O and his Thundercat daughter). Are we going to grab some Indian food in LA loaded with omega-6 and other toxins, maybe Saturday night since Friday I think you are booked?

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:28 PM

hey, thanks for the comic strip!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:06 PM

I wish it wasn't called "placebo". The term makes me think of secret labs, Disney villains, or that opera singer Placebo Domingo. We should embrace placebo, study the shit out of it, and use the placebo effect to trick our bodies into performing better. Not sure how that would work though. First step is to change the name. Maybe something like "The Omegatron Effect" to make it seem less cliche.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:05 PM

I wish it wasn't called "placebo". The term makes me think of secret labs, Disney villains, or that opera singer Placebo Domingo. We should embrace placebo, study the shit out of it, and use the placebo effect to trick our bodies into performing better. Not sure how that would work though. First step is to change the name though. Maybe something like "The Omegatron Effect" to make it seem less cliche.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:58 PM

+1 for understanding the Placebo effect. If it works, it works.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 02, 2011
at 06:55 PM

I agree with this. Paleo might also be outside the mainstream, but it is based on a scientific hypothesis that is physically plausible and has plenty of science to back it up.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:18 PM

Liked the video, but have a quick comment about dilution. I've found that my gluten intolerance is MUCH more sensitive to minor traces of gluten than to eating an entire loaf of bread. I've had "exploding diarrhea" after minute traces of Soy Sauce or Ketchup which were more rapid and more violent than the results of eating pizza or garlic bread. Any help with a medical explanation to my body's ability to identify minute traces of gluten is greatly appreciated in advance, thx.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:48 PM

6) Paleo is scientific. It took me a while from the time I heard about paleo until the time I started eating paleo. It just didn't make sense, since the literature seemed to conflict so much. But in reality, it doesn't. The conflicting literature is typically in the form of cohort studies that make false assumptions. I didn't understand much science (and still don't), but after reading what rigorous studies actually say, I'm fairly sure that the three horsemen of paleo are in fact real. Excess Omega 6 is bad, excess fructose is bad, and gluten is probably bad.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:45 PM

5) The issue not just a bio/chem issue, but also a physics one. This is not something I know much about, but I heard a debate where it was concluded that in order for homeopathy to be real, several laws of physics would need to be reversed. One can speculate than anything can happen blah blah, but there is such a thing as matter, gravity, electrons, etc etc.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:43 PM

4) My sister and I don't see eye to eye on this. I believe that the suckiness of western medicine drove her to homeopathy without considering it deeply. I have tried homeopathy, and can totally see that it would "work" when not compared to a control group. Time heals, people adapt, etc. Separating the placebo effect from the treatment effect might be the most important concept ever in medicine. It has transformed many areas of medicine. For example, one was far more likely to die of heart disease back when for many reasons. One was that the treatments were never studied for placebo effect.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:39 PM

3) Paleo can fail for many reasons. One is that nutrition is not great as a treatment, but rather for prevention. Another is that people are different. I don't think we disagree on this point. But using a base paleo diet and building on that after seeing what works for you is usually prudent.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:38 PM

2) The homeopathy intake questionnaire is great and very thorough, but the translation into homeopathic remedies is nonsensical and largely based on one guy's experience two hundred years ago. I wish my primary care physician cared that much to ask about life, exercise, nutrition, and feelings.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:36 PM

Thomas-- those are all good points. Let me try to address the ones I know about. 1) I have read the randomized trials on homeopathy. My day job is to read clinical trials and evaluate their quality and applicability to real life. I certainly don't mean to shut anyone up, as tons of studies are dumb and citing them is often used to say "hey look, i'm smart".

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:58 PM

Paleo is like Proteus. It keeps changing. That's good. However, I don't know how you can say Paleo is scientific, since there seems to be no standard Paleo diet, or at least one that works.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:52 PM

As I mentioned before, the germ theory failed major tenets of logic before there was a way of verifying that germs existed. Imagine living before the microscope and people telling you there were little organisms invading your body that nobody could see. In some ways that is much more fantastic than saying their are spirits that are causing the disease.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:50 PM

4th, if homeopathy is so bad, why does your sister continue to practice it?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:50 PM

3rd...Why does Paleo fail so often? Why does allopathy fail so often?How do you explain those failures? Why is only homeopathy subject to such close scrutiny?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:49 PM

2nd of all, even if I don't know a lot about homeopathy, I know this much. They put your through about a two hour questionaire to determine your type. They don't have a one-size-fits-all for a particular illness, although you might be led to believe that from those boiron medicines they sell at Whole Foods. That's going to make it much more difficult to create a study.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:46 PM

Whenever someone mentions "study" around here, it is a sign that means, "shut up, I know what I am talking about but you dont". I am not shutting up and neither should anybody else who has had an experience, good or bad, with homeopathy or anything else.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:45 PM

1) First of all, have you read all of those randomized placebo-controlled studies on homeopathy. Who gets to run those studies? Aren't you suspicious of them at all. If it's a good study, then yes, that needs to be taken into considerationl Reread my post Kamal. Also see the link that Lunabelle posted. Paleo is not backed by science, history and it sure as hell isn't backed by my intuition (maybe yours). For more intuition, go to the Ancestral Symposium. You will have more intuition once you have been there.

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:39 AM

@mth, you wonderful caring sharing human being. Curses on the toothpaste spitter that undid all your good humanitarian work!

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:34 AM

@oak0y, sorry but that makes absolutely no sense.

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:31 AM

I downvoted for exactly the same reasons as KC but I see the OP has selected it as the best answer so I guess Noah was spot on in his assessment. The OP was after validation not evidence, for which none CAN exist.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:50 AM

Ha! I totally forgot about the toothpaste thing! I have tried homeopathic remedies from time to time, and when I would complain about them not working to my friends who had success with homeopathy, they would often ask if I had used mint toothpaste or had some orange juice that day. I need my medicine to be stronger than toothpaste residue.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:42 AM

I saw that the first time a few months ago. When they asked what kind of car hit the patient, I could see what was coming next, and laughed so hard I fell off of my bed.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:21 AM

lunabelle- that article seems a little misleading, unless I'm reading it wrong. The article is saying that Montagnier has developed a test which can detect the influence of viral and bacterial DNA in highly diluted solutions. That is several steps outside of a homeopathic remedy having any biological effect in disease treatment. Nobel Prizes are great and all, but this particular argument doesn't seem to make sense to my untrained eye.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:17 AM

Homeopathy is quite benign compared with some overhyped pharmaceuticals and toxic medical treatments. That being said, several cases have been reported of cancer patients eschewing chemo and radiation in favor of homeopathy for very treatable cancers, then dying because the cancer progressed unhindered.

81bb94ebbfe93b43ee0c76d757da3c48

(168)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:46 AM

Wonderful - both of you! It's astonishing what we can convince ourselves to believe, isn't it?!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:24 AM

Thomas- I find it interesting how strongly you defend homeopathy from ridicule, after noticing how often you've ridiculed Chris Kresser for graduating from acupuncture school. Only one of these modalities has a plausible biological mechanism and doesn't violate basic tenets of physics, and it isn't the one that rhymes with "chromeopathy".

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:56 AM

And if you can explain any way in which homeopathy could be verified with better instrumentation, I'm all ears. My sister is a homeopath and author of a homeopathy guide book, and she certainly cannot explain to me why it fails when rigorously tested. Paleo is not nearly like that. It is backed by science, history, and intuition. Comparing the two just because they are not practiced by allopathic doctors is simply a nomenclature issue.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:52 AM

Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter studies are specifically designed to differentiate the placebo effect from the treatment effect. While something like surgery is not able to be tested well in this manner, homeopathy is. The fact that people make fun of it without knowing much does not change the fact that homeopathy fails major tenets of logic, does not have biological plausabilty, and fails in the rigorously conducted trials. Drawing parallels between making fun of homeopathy and making fag jokes seems quite a stretch to me.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 02, 2011
at 02:27 AM

Marie, I'm not in favor of homeopathy (and am pretty cynical about most woo), but despite upvoting several anti-homeopathy replies here, I'm also upvoting yours. You made an excellent point clearly, and surprised me with a point of view I'd forgotten I'd ever shared, lol.

D10ca8d11301c2f4993ac2279ce4b930

(5242)

on August 02, 2011
at 02:08 AM

At the very least it's benign.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 01:14 AM

BTW - +1 from me. I always find it hilarious when a group of heretics (i.e. us) make fun of another group of heretics. Good thing our shit don't stink...actually good thing that years of NAD consumption has diminished my sense of smell, so I am numb to it

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 01:10 AM

Isn't homeopathy the therapy that religious zealots use to help homosexuals "recover". You know - "pray the gay away". No? Ok I must be confusing it with something else. My bad.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 02, 2011
at 12:38 AM

+1 all over the place for Japsican. Excellent reality check!

6b72eeb3f0c98b487f712efcb5092c90

(293)

on August 02, 2011
at 12:32 AM

Downvoted for including acupuncture as quackery. You may not understand or agree with the means by which it works, but I think there's plenty of defensible evidence that it does indeed work.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 12:30 AM

Very good, lunabelle! Thank you for posting this. See you on HighBrow.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:49 PM

Upvoted. This is a good point. I had a friend who had Multiple Sclerosis. She tried everything. Finally she found an acupuncturist who claimed to have had success with MS. It worked. When I left her (in Italy) she often had to use a cane to walk. Now she goes dancing. Placebo? Who cares?! She doesn't!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:46 PM

Homeopathy, for better or worse, is not based upon "minimal effective dose". I don't know what good ideas you are talking about. Although there are different schools of homeopathy (I believe) they all believe in "dilution". Homeopathy is not herbology. In Europe, homeopathic doctors have to go through a regular medical curriculum and then specialize in homeopathy. It's not like here in the US, where anybody can call himself a homeopathist.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Upvoted. This is a good point. I had a friend who had Multiple Sclerosis. She tried everything. Finally she found an acupuncturist who claimed to have had access with MS. It worked. When I left her (in Italy) she often had to use a cane to walk. Now she goes dancing. Placebo? Who cares?! She doesn't!

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:37 PM

Anectdotally, after years of taking literally thousands of histories on stroke patients, I've yet to come across a single patient who's CVA resulted from a Chiropractic adjustment. In fact, rarely are they the result of physical trauma. I assure you, if one compiled a list of injuries (Not just CVAs) caused by irresponsible practitioners in allopathic medicine, it would DWARF any of the lists you can find on quackwatch.

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:23 PM

I work primarily on a stroke floor, and work float on orthopedic and spine injury. Honestly, if someone throws a clot do to an adjustment, they were most likely on their way and primed to throw a clot with some seriously advanced atherosclerosis. I mean, people crack their necks and have "Adjustments" in all sorts of sports endeavors free from CVAs. AND, if you do the numbers, such incidences are actually quite rare, and NOBODY can prove (or disprove) that the adjustment was the cause.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 01, 2011
at 10:44 PM

yes .

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on August 01, 2011
at 10:40 PM

Or if we come at this from the other direction... 'Even some paleos, who like thinking out of the box and questioning conventional wisdom, think homeopathy is really questionable' seems to condemn the idea even more than if the mainstream ghad made similar comments concerning the concept.

9759643ce5d97ab8fa649ae954656c4c

(3325)

on August 01, 2011
at 10:18 PM

An article about Nobel Prize winning Luc Montagnier, who is a proponent of homeopathy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullman/luc-montagnier-homeopathy-taken-seriously_b_814619.html?ref=fb&src=sp

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 09:37 PM

Yes, KC gave a clear explanation of his prejudices. He believes homeopathy is nothing but a placebo and based upon his conviction he's going to downvote Amanda.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 07:43 PM

i down vote just to keep balance. upvote can everyone. downvote only users with higher points. so i think this is not a system of equalness. Like talking in a circle where everyone speaks. sometimes its hard to read the lower post cause the top post are so often upvoted. so i just downvote the top post and upvote a lower post to give the lower post a chance. 12 upvotes. and maybe more later, so if some vote down its ok. And i dont realy understand your point i dont use homoepathy right now. I have used it in a special way. And iam not sure if it works. I think this is not the way it can work.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:47 PM

If you want unbiased always go straight to the peer reviewed journals and decide for yourself. That is the best advise I can give to anyone about any health intervention. But, be sure to study up on how to read the methods not just take the abstract and results at face value. Bad news is that many RCT's which are the gold are not a very viable tool for holistic health/wellness to be tested by (too many variables) so you end up with a lot of reductionist thinking and models. Doesn't make them useless just limited. Just never stop learning....

9e975c86f483555ed19e59c5628488ca

(823)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:43 PM

It doesn't seem like you're really wanting to hear what people think so much as be told your belief is valid (if it is or is not is beside the point I'm making here.) If you're looking for a faith boost you should go to a Homeopathy site, the Paleo community doesn't seem to like it very much. Your whole question is worded as a cautions call for support.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:42 PM

Well, as it is that site puts together a lot of the actual peer reviewed research on chiropractic intervention. "JMPT" (journal of manipulative and physiologic therapeutics) is one journal, but journals such as "spine" have plenty of info too. If you don't like to read the actual science literature I'm not sure what sort of resource you might prefer? Sure that site is probably biased in favor of chiro, but I was giving you instances proving it to be helpful since you had already made your mind up otherwise.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:25 PM

Someone already did, but unfortunately, a beach camper at Assateague spit some of their toothpaste in the ocean a few years ago, and the trace amount of peppermint scent counteracted the effect of the homopathic ocean.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on August 01, 2011
at 04:09 PM

OK after having a look at that link...do you have any good unbiased sources, i.e. not that website, which appears to be written by a chiropractor? Seriously.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 04:04 PM

Well I would just let this go but its so wrong I feel I have to say cerebral hemorrhage is so rare following an adjustment that it happens....at the same frequency in population NOT being adjusted. Meaning there is no causation or even correlation here. Here is some research for you to peruse....some of the literature is of higher quality than others, but hey if your interested in learning have at it! http://www.chiro.org/research/

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:59 PM

Wrong on many accounts olivia...cerebral hemorrhage after an adjustment is so rare it happens....the same amount of times it happens in normal day to day life without adjustments. No correlation or causation ever shown anywhere. And the science for legitimacy, well here is a site that holds just a bit of information. Of course its more for the lay public, but I think its pretty well maintained. I do agree your spine is nothing to play around with, so seek a good chiropractor to keep it well!

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:24 PM

Actually chiropractic can be extremely dangerous. Your neck and spine are nothing to play around with. My mother had a patient who had a cerebral hemorrhage after getting an "adjustment" and that's not exactly an unheard of effect, IIRC. There also no good science whatsoever behind the idea that spinal misalignment causes the majority of health problems. Some chiropractic treatment might be benign or even helpful (through placebo or if all they do is basically give you a back massage) but in general I think it's dangerous quackery.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:23 PM

Recommending quackwatch for any unbiased information is simply laughable and gets an auto down vote.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:22 PM

+1 For a great succinct answer. The fact that people think homeopathy is plausible is a really sad comment on the state of science education.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:20 PM

Actually chiropractic can be extremely dangerous. Your neck and spine are nothing to play around with. My mother had a patient who had a cerebral hemorrhage after getting an "adjustment" and that's not exactly an unheard of effect, IIRC. There also no good science whatsoever behind the idea that spinal misalignment causes the majority of health problems. Some chiropractic treatment might be benign or even helpful (through placebo or if all they do is basically give you a back massage) but in general I think it's dangerous quackery.

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:16 PM

People up-vote what they personally agree with and down-vote what they don't. Even when the question is 'what do you think?' which calls for personal opinions. :) I'm surprised there are apparently many pro-woo members of PH.

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:05 PM

I don't know if I'd lump Chiropractic in with homeopathy and acupuncture. I'm in medicine as an RN and going for my NP, and I think there's quite a bit of good science (as well as quackery) in chiropractic medicine. And believe me, there is PLENTY of quackery in allopathic medicine as well. As for quackwatch, the folks that run that site feel that paleo, WAP, and ancestral nutrition is "quackery." I don't think that site does a great job of backing up it's conclusions as to who it does or doesn't judge as quacks.

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:00 PM

I don't know if I'd lump Chiropractic in with homeopathy and acupuncture. I'm in medicine as an RN and going for my NP, and I think there's quite a bit of good science (as well as quackery) in chiropractic medicine, JUST AS MUCH as one would find in allopathic medicine. As for quackwatch, the folks that run that site feel that paleo, WAP, and ancestral nutrition is "quackery." I don't think that site does a great job of backing up it's conclusions as to who it does or doesn't judge as quacks.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 02:57 PM

+1 KC for a nice clear explanation for a down vote. Even if I didn't agree with you, I'm at the point of voting up any person who owns their down vote with a clear reason.

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 01, 2011
at 02:45 PM

Ha! Great cartoon. Thanks, Joe.

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:38 PM

I can't stand by seeing this with a positive vote tally. @mth is totally on the mark here, and there is absolutely no way that homeopathy does anything other than act as a placebo. So yes, I applied a downvote here.

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:37 PM

How is it these sensible answers are being downvoted at all? And the "OMG IT WORKS!" post is still in positive territory? *boggle*

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 12:30 PM

+1 to counter the down vote. "Hey folks, when you leave a down vote, it's very helpful to leave a comment explaining why you did." It annoys me that I'm to the point of copy and pasting this comment.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 12:29 PM

"Hey folks, when you leave a down vote, it's very helpful to leave a comment explaining why you did." It annoys me that I'm to the point of copy and pasting this comment. If you leave a down vote, you must feel fairly strongly about the issue. If so, why not use the chance for a teaching opportunity.

D3ff004d4a0c42b67cc2c49a5ee9c0f3

(5801)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:10 AM

Ear infections, chicken pox, and most childhood diseases only last from 3 to 7 days without treatment. Most treatments (including homeopathy) do nothing for the disease because by the time you get to the doctor, start taking medicine, etc. the kid is already on the downside of the illness.

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15 Answers

21
D0540fa06cb15b07446b5a1e520f8c36

on August 01, 2011
at 12:07 PM

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 01, 2011
at 02:45 PM

Ha! Great cartoon. Thanks, Joe.

19
5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 10:55 AM

Homeopathy is a great way to get peoples money for literally nothing. The rate of dilution is so high that there is almost certainly not even one molecule of the original left in the super diluted "remedy." Homeopathy claims that this works by some mysterious and untestable energy left behind. And because all kinds of things including scents of mint and eucalyptus can allegedly interfere with homeopathic remedies, they are pretty much untestable.

On the other hand, for minor illnesses and injuries such as bruises, colds and such homeopathy is great, simply because it follows the "first, do no harm" idea very well, and homeopathic remedies make wonderful placebos. Far better than conventional medicine if it keeps people off the drugs for the minor stuff.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 12:29 PM

"Hey folks, when you leave a down vote, it's very helpful to leave a comment explaining why you did." It annoys me that I'm to the point of copy and pasting this comment. If you leave a down vote, you must feel fairly strongly about the issue. If so, why not use the chance for a teaching opportunity.

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:34 AM

@oak0y, sorry but that makes absolutely no sense.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 07:43 PM

i down vote just to keep balance. upvote can everyone. downvote only users with higher points. so i think this is not a system of equalness. Like talking in a circle where everyone speaks. sometimes its hard to read the lower post cause the top post are so often upvoted. so i just downvote the top post and upvote a lower post to give the lower post a chance. 12 upvotes. and maybe more later, so if some vote down its ok. And i dont realy understand your point i dont use homoepathy right now. I have used it in a special way. And iam not sure if it works. I think this is not the way it can work.

18
26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

on August 01, 2011
at 12:19 PM

I think it's potentially damaging and utter bullshit. Homeopathy angers me.

What's sad is that a lot of homeopaths have great knowledge. But instead of using herbal and more 'natural' treatments to help their patients they waste everyone's time and money with this 'dilution' nonsense.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 12:30 PM

+1 to counter the down vote. "Hey folks, when you leave a down vote, it's very helpful to leave a comment explaining why you did." It annoys me that I'm to the point of copy and pasting this comment.

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:37 PM

How is it these sensible answers are being downvoted at all? And the "OMG IT WORKS!" post is still in positive territory? *boggle*

26b7615ef542394102785a67a2786867

(7967)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:16 PM

People up-vote what they personally agree with and down-vote what they don't. Even when the question is 'what do you think?' which calls for personal opinions. :) I'm surprised there are apparently many pro-woo members of PH.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:22 PM

+1 For a great succinct answer. The fact that people think homeopathy is plausible is a really sad comment on the state of science education.

17
D3ff004d4a0c42b67cc2c49a5ee9c0f3

(5801)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:09 PM

I just bought all the homeopathy cures at the local health food store and poured them down the toilet. Now the entire Great Lakes system will cure everyone immediately. In several days, that water should be making its way to the oceans via the Mississippi River. Within weeks that water will be in contact with water everywhere on the planet.

Yes, that's right, I have single-handedly eliminated disease on the planet!

Why didn't someone think of this before?

81bb94ebbfe93b43ee0c76d757da3c48

(168)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:46 AM

Wonderful - both of you! It's astonishing what we can convince ourselves to believe, isn't it?!

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:25 PM

Someone already did, but unfortunately, a beach camper at Assateague spit some of their toothpaste in the ocean a few years ago, and the trace amount of peppermint scent counteracted the effect of the homopathic ocean.

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:50 AM

Ha! I totally forgot about the toothpaste thing! I have tried homeopathic remedies from time to time, and when I would complain about them not working to my friends who had success with homeopathy, they would often ask if I had used mint toothpaste or had some orange juice that day. I need my medicine to be stronger than toothpaste residue.

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:39 AM

@mth, you wonderful caring sharing human being. Curses on the toothpaste spitter that undid all your good humanitarian work!

13
B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 01, 2011
at 02:44 PM

I'm sad about homeopathy, because its use demonstrates that people are pretty gullible.

This comic strip explains homeopathy quite well, I think:

89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:28 PM

hey, thanks for the comic strip!

B525b3e4b1d6f1cdceec943cdec6eb7d

(1680)

on August 03, 2011
at 09:58 PM

You're welcome, Pieter D!

10
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 10:03 PM

I cannot make a case FOR homeopathy. However, you should look into some of the ridicule that proponents of the germ theory received before it was able to be verified by instrumentation. So, my problem is with the hubris of you all. In lieu of more concrete, scientific evidence one should be careful with homeopathy. As with all types of medicine-alternative or mainstream-there are plenty of people who want to rob you. I agree. However, homeopathy could be verified with better instrumentation. My point is don't be so sure of yourselves.

People here talk about N=1 all the time. Some people have success with homeopathy. Who are you to say definitely that it was all a placebo effect? The best you can say is that homeopathy falls outside of the present scientific paradigm and that you've haven't seen any studies that support its benefits.

It's funny to see people on what is an alternative health site (and don't think for a minute that what people espouse up here is part of mainstream science...if you do, you're fooling yourself) resort to supporting their arguments by linking to quackwatch. Check out the history of that website and report what you find out.

Seeing Paleos make fun of homeopathy is sort of like seeing a group of people who congratulate themselves on not being racist all the while making fag jokes.

B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

(10778)

on August 01, 2011
at 10:40 PM

Or if we come at this from the other direction... 'Even some paleos, who like thinking out of the box and questioning conventional wisdom, think homeopathy is really questionable' seems to condemn the idea even more than if the mainstream ghad made similar comments concerning the concept.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 01:10 AM

Isn't homeopathy the therapy that religious zealots use to help homosexuals "recover". You know - "pray the gay away". No? Ok I must be confusing it with something else. My bad.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 01:14 AM

BTW - +1 from me. I always find it hilarious when a group of heretics (i.e. us) make fun of another group of heretics. Good thing our shit don't stink...actually good thing that years of NAD consumption has diminished my sense of smell, so I am numb to it

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 01, 2011
at 10:44 PM

yes .

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:56 AM

And if you can explain any way in which homeopathy could be verified with better instrumentation, I'm all ears. My sister is a homeopath and author of a homeopathy guide book, and she certainly cannot explain to me why it fails when rigorously tested. Paleo is not nearly like that. It is backed by science, history, and intuition. Comparing the two just because they are not practiced by allopathic doctors is simply a nomenclature issue.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:48 PM

6) Paleo is scientific. It took me a while from the time I heard about paleo until the time I started eating paleo. It just didn't make sense, since the literature seemed to conflict so much. But in reality, it doesn't. The conflicting literature is typically in the form of cohort studies that make false assumptions. I didn't understand much science (and still don't), but after reading what rigorous studies actually say, I'm fairly sure that the three horsemen of paleo are in fact real. Excess Omega 6 is bad, excess fructose is bad, and gluten is probably bad.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:49 PM

2nd of all, even if I don't know a lot about homeopathy, I know this much. They put your through about a two hour questionaire to determine your type. They don't have a one-size-fits-all for a particular illness, although you might be led to believe that from those boiron medicines they sell at Whole Foods. That's going to make it much more difficult to create a study.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:45 PM

5) The issue not just a bio/chem issue, but also a physics one. This is not something I know much about, but I heard a debate where it was concluded that in order for homeopathy to be real, several laws of physics would need to be reversed. One can speculate than anything can happen blah blah, but there is such a thing as matter, gravity, electrons, etc etc.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:43 PM

4) My sister and I don't see eye to eye on this. I believe that the suckiness of western medicine drove her to homeopathy without considering it deeply. I have tried homeopathy, and can totally see that it would "work" when not compared to a control group. Time heals, people adapt, etc. Separating the placebo effect from the treatment effect might be the most important concept ever in medicine. It has transformed many areas of medicine. For example, one was far more likely to die of heart disease back when for many reasons. One was that the treatments were never studied for placebo effect.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:46 PM

Whenever someone mentions "study" around here, it is a sign that means, "shut up, I know what I am talking about but you dont". I am not shutting up and neither should anybody else who has had an experience, good or bad, with homeopathy or anything else.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:50 PM

3rd...Why does Paleo fail so often? Why does allopathy fail so often?How do you explain those failures? Why is only homeopathy subject to such close scrutiny?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:36 PM

Thomas-- those are all good points. Let me try to address the ones I know about. 1) I have read the randomized trials on homeopathy. My day job is to read clinical trials and evaluate their quality and applicability to real life. I certainly don't mean to shut anyone up, as tons of studies are dumb and citing them is often used to say "hey look, i'm smart".

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:52 PM

As I mentioned before, the germ theory failed major tenets of logic before there was a way of verifying that germs existed. Imagine living before the microscope and people telling you there were little organisms invading your body that nobody could see. In some ways that is much more fantastic than saying their are spirits that are causing the disease.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:45 PM

1) First of all, have you read all of those randomized placebo-controlled studies on homeopathy. Who gets to run those studies? Aren't you suspicious of them at all. If it's a good study, then yes, that needs to be taken into considerationl Reread my post Kamal. Also see the link that Lunabelle posted. Paleo is not backed by science, history and it sure as hell isn't backed by my intuition (maybe yours). For more intuition, go to the Ancestral Symposium. You will have more intuition once you have been there.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:39 PM

3) Paleo can fail for many reasons. One is that nutrition is not great as a treatment, but rather for prevention. Another is that people are different. I don't think we disagree on this point. But using a base paleo diet and building on that after seeing what works for you is usually prudent.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:52 AM

Randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicenter studies are specifically designed to differentiate the placebo effect from the treatment effect. While something like surgery is not able to be tested well in this manner, homeopathy is. The fact that people make fun of it without knowing much does not change the fact that homeopathy fails major tenets of logic, does not have biological plausabilty, and fails in the rigorously conducted trials. Drawing parallels between making fun of homeopathy and making fag jokes seems quite a stretch to me.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:50 PM

4th, if homeopathy is so bad, why does your sister continue to practice it?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:38 PM

2) The homeopathy intake questionnaire is great and very thorough, but the translation into homeopathic remedies is nonsensical and largely based on one guy's experience two hundred years ago. I wish my primary care physician cared that much to ask about life, exercise, nutrition, and feelings.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:58 PM

Paleo is like Proteus. It keeps changing. That's good. However, I don't know how you can say Paleo is scientific, since there seems to be no standard Paleo diet, or at least one that works.

9
Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:25 PM

As someone who walked to the edges of this earth in search of a cure, I can honestly say the placebo effect is greatly under-utilized by Western medicine. I began my search for a cure worshiping at the altars of the almighty scientific method and in desperation passed through Reiki, hypnosis, TCM, a (university backed) faith healer, and finally a psychic (aka medical intuitive).

While I never used homeopathy, I will never fault anyone for searching for an answer. Many who suffer stop hoping and THAT is a worse crime than any placebo offered.

The funny thing about my esoteric travels, all fourteen years of pain and searching, is they confirmed the deepness of my mind-body connection. My fancy Biochem degree could never explain why under hypnosis I could possibly correctly self diagnose the problem, a problem no surgeon could believe, no diagnostic tool could identify, and only time would prove shockingly accurate. Your mind is an amazing tool and your ability to connect with it, and use it, for better wellness is often overlooked by Western practices.

Whether homeopathy is just a placebo, is not important to me. If it works for some, then great. After my experience in the bowels of the US' disease maintenance system, I will never fault someone for trying.

PS The medical intuitive, well, she was right, too, but she just confirmed the diagnosis I'd proposed under hypnosis 10 years earlier.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on August 02, 2011
at 02:27 AM

Marie, I'm not in favor of homeopathy (and am pretty cynical about most woo), but despite upvoting several anti-homeopathy replies here, I'm also upvoting yours. You made an excellent point clearly, and surprised me with a point of view I'd forgotten I'd ever shared, lol.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:42 PM

Upvoted. This is a good point. I had a friend who had Multiple Sclerosis. She tried everything. Finally she found an acupuncturist who claimed to have had access with MS. It worked. When I left her (in Italy) she often had to use a cane to walk. Now she goes dancing. Placebo? Who cares?! She doesn't!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:49 PM

Upvoted. This is a good point. I had a friend who had Multiple Sclerosis. She tried everything. Finally she found an acupuncturist who claimed to have had success with MS. It worked. When I left her (in Italy) she often had to use a cane to walk. Now she goes dancing. Placebo? Who cares?! She doesn't!

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:33 PM

I was cynical until I had some AMAZING experiences with hypnosis and TCM. I began my biochem career at The Salk Institute and ended up a patient in university studies of faith healers, a leap into the unknown and unexpected to say the least. I've learned more about TCM and believe the majority of it is less Woo, more science, but time will tell. Paleo has only increased my interest in TCM as so much is based on understanding change, flow, and balance. We chase balance daily and there is nothing wrong with that!

8
21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:52 PM

Strictly speaking, I don't think anything about homeopathy.

Someone once said that people are just big bags of opinions. What makes us paleos a little different is that we use a combination of experience, research, and anthropological/genetic guesses when we choose what to eat. If homeopathy works for you, then awesome! Just be aware that, because of the ingenuity of the human body, a treatment can "work" just by not stopping the body from healing itself.

The placebo effect is not necessarily bad. Patients who get a pat on the shoulder from their doctor, and who are sincerely asked if they have any questions, have better responses to pain medication then those who don't. When you get colored pills, they "work" better than plain white pills of equal formulation. So when I've had the opportunity to take a free homeopathic remedy (meaning one of great dilution, not pseudo-homepathic stuff like zinc lozenges), I took it gladly. But I would not pay for something that has no reason why it would do anything, and has failed repeatedly when studied correctly.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:05 PM

I wish it wasn't called "placebo". The term makes me think of secret labs, Disney villains, or that opera singer Placebo Domingo. We should embrace placebo, study the shit out of it, and use the placebo effect to trick our bodies into performing better. Not sure how that would work though. First step is to change the name though. Maybe something like "The Omegatron Effect" to make it seem less cliche.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 02, 2011
at 07:29 PM

+1 Nice answer Darth KaMaul. So maybe you didn't see my other response to your comment (about Lion-O and his Thundercat daughter). Are we going to grab some Indian food in LA loaded with omega-6 and other toxins, maybe Saturday night since Friday I think you are booked?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:06 PM

I wish it wasn't called "placebo". The term makes me think of secret labs, Disney villains, or that opera singer Placebo Domingo. We should embrace placebo, study the shit out of it, and use the placebo effect to trick our bodies into performing better. Not sure how that would work though. First step is to change the name. Maybe something like "The Omegatron Effect" to make it seem less cliche.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:05 AM

^^^^^^^ oh, u so funny kamal. i die.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:58 PM

+1 for understanding the Placebo effect. If it works, it works.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 07:54 PM

Yes! Indian buffet would be spectacular. I'll email you my contact info. Or you can contact me at chunkylover53@aol.com.

559aa134ff5e6c8bcd608ba8dc505628

(3631)

on August 03, 2011
at 12:04 AM

^^^^^ oh, u so funny kamal.

D1c02d4fc5125a670cf419dbb3e18ba7

on August 03, 2011
at 01:07 AM

@Kamal - so either email me at guitaravind@gmail.com or give me your real email address :-)

6
B3c62d89cd47b7d7209b6a99243d0ded

on August 01, 2011
at 04:54 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0 A comedy sketch about a homeopathic hospital.

(watch to the end of the clip for the homeopathic lager joke)

I fear that the idea of dilution works with some items, but that diluting anything down past detectable levels shows a disconnect with the scientific idea of minimal effective dose.

There may be some good ideas in homeopathy, but the incredible dilution meme weakens any other good that may some from that system or modality.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:46 PM

Homeopathy, for better or worse, is not based upon "minimal effective dose". I don't know what good ideas you are talking about. Although there are different schools of homeopathy (I believe) they all believe in "dilution". Homeopathy is not herbology. In Europe, homeopathic doctors have to go through a regular medical curriculum and then specialize in homeopathy. It's not like here in the US, where anybody can call himself a homeopathist.

Medium avatar

(4878)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:18 PM

Liked the video, but have a quick comment about dilution. I've found that my gluten intolerance is MUCH more sensitive to minor traces of gluten than to eating an entire loaf of bread. I've had "exploding diarrhea" after minute traces of Soy Sauce or Ketchup which were more rapid and more violent than the results of eating pizza or garlic bread. Any help with a medical explanation to my body's ability to identify minute traces of gluten is greatly appreciated in advance, thx.

3
D0578c3826123f66a80b034cd3e78816

(565)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:50 AM

Nothing I have seen has yet been able to explain any physiological plausibility for homeopathy. I am willing to use treatments that are "unproven" so long as I understand their method of working and believe there is some possibility that it may help without inducing additional harm. Homeopathy does not induce additional harm but it also just doesn't make any damn sense. If you want to use alternative medicine, use medical herbalism, mindfulness, osteopathy, chiropractic, or acupuncture (see http://thehealthyskeptic.org/acupuncture). Many of these methods are also unproven and/or somewhat questionable but at least they have some physiological plausibility on which you can base your decision rather than a principle that sounds like something taken out of some medieval book on the four humors.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on August 02, 2011
at 06:55 PM

I agree with this. Paleo might also be outside the mainstream, but it is based on a scientific hypothesis that is physically plausible and has plenty of science to back it up.

3
6b72eeb3f0c98b487f712efcb5092c90

on August 02, 2011
at 12:46 AM

I have had positive experiences with homeopathy, most notably with arnica gel for bruising. I first used arnica gel on severe and painful bruising resulting from multiple heparin injections. I also use zinc pellets for occasional leg cramps and arnica pellets for muscle soreness, and they work quite well for me. I've also had positive experiences using herbal supplements and flower essences.

I'll admit that the dilution and shaking used to prepare homeopathic medicines have never been explained to me in any way that satisfies the rational part of my brain. The animal part of my brain doesn't seem to care as long as what I'm doing works.

2
20172354416166004d612e7d6bdd2f5e

on August 02, 2011
at 12:10 AM

Ok, maybe a little off topic, but you have got to watch THIS

very funny. Homeopathic A & E (aka Emergency Room).

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b

(24553)

on August 02, 2011
at 06:42 AM

I saw that the first time a few months ago. When they asked what kind of car hit the patient, I could see what was coming next, and laughed so hard I fell off of my bed.

2
4b04151f204b6b301a86dd70268cdcf6

on August 01, 2011
at 02:29 PM

If you look at the origins of homeopathy, chiropractic, acupuncture and similar treatments they resemble religion or mysticism. One must have faith to believe these methods work and the placebo effect becomes the faithful person's "proof".

I once thought some of these methods worked and over time realized I was being duped. The human body resolves almost every ailment within a short time and humans have a faulty cause and effect belief that makes us think that the silver colloidal solution we took last night is the reason our sinuses are clear this morning. We all want to believe we can heal ourselves with something readily available and even better if it's ancient and rehashed for our modern world or tries subvert established facts. Unfortunately we are very gullible.

I recommend www.quackwatch.com for more info.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:59 PM

Wrong on many accounts olivia...cerebral hemorrhage after an adjustment is so rare it happens....the same amount of times it happens in normal day to day life without adjustments. No correlation or causation ever shown anywhere. And the science for legitimacy, well here is a site that holds just a bit of information. Of course its more for the lay public, but I think its pretty well maintained. I do agree your spine is nothing to play around with, so seek a good chiropractor to keep it well!

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on August 01, 2011
at 04:09 PM

OK after having a look at that link...do you have any good unbiased sources, i.e. not that website, which appears to be written by a chiropractor? Seriously.

Cbb1134f8e93067d1271c97bb2e15ef6

on August 02, 2011
at 12:38 AM

+1 all over the place for Japsican. Excellent reality check!

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:23 PM

Recommending quackwatch for any unbiased information is simply laughable and gets an auto down vote.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:42 PM

Well, as it is that site puts together a lot of the actual peer reviewed research on chiropractic intervention. "JMPT" (journal of manipulative and physiologic therapeutics) is one journal, but journals such as "spine" have plenty of info too. If you don't like to read the actual science literature I'm not sure what sort of resource you might prefer? Sure that site is probably biased in favor of chiro, but I was giving you instances proving it to be helpful since you had already made your mind up otherwise.

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:05 PM

I don't know if I'd lump Chiropractic in with homeopathy and acupuncture. I'm in medicine as an RN and going for my NP, and I think there's quite a bit of good science (as well as quackery) in chiropractic medicine. And believe me, there is PLENTY of quackery in allopathic medicine as well. As for quackwatch, the folks that run that site feel that paleo, WAP, and ancestral nutrition is "quackery." I don't think that site does a great job of backing up it's conclusions as to who it does or doesn't judge as quacks.

6b72eeb3f0c98b487f712efcb5092c90

(293)

on August 02, 2011
at 12:32 AM

Downvoted for including acupuncture as quackery. You may not understand or agree with the means by which it works, but I think there's plenty of defensible evidence that it does indeed work.

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:00 PM

I don't know if I'd lump Chiropractic in with homeopathy and acupuncture. I'm in medicine as an RN and going for my NP, and I think there's quite a bit of good science (as well as quackery) in chiropractic medicine, JUST AS MUCH as one would find in allopathic medicine. As for quackwatch, the folks that run that site feel that paleo, WAP, and ancestral nutrition is "quackery." I don't think that site does a great job of backing up it's conclusions as to who it does or doesn't judge as quacks.

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 05:47 PM

If you want unbiased always go straight to the peer reviewed journals and decide for yourself. That is the best advise I can give to anyone about any health intervention. But, be sure to study up on how to read the methods not just take the abstract and results at face value. Bad news is that many RCT's which are the gold are not a very viable tool for holistic health/wellness to be tested by (too many variables) so you end up with a lot of reductionist thinking and models. Doesn't make them useless just limited. Just never stop learning....

3846a3b61bc9051e4baebdef62e58c52

(18635)

on August 01, 2011
at 04:04 PM

Well I would just let this go but its so wrong I feel I have to say cerebral hemorrhage is so rare following an adjustment that it happens....at the same frequency in population NOT being adjusted. Meaning there is no causation or even correlation here. Here is some research for you to peruse....some of the literature is of higher quality than others, but hey if your interested in learning have at it! http://www.chiro.org/research/

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:20 PM

Actually chiropractic can be extremely dangerous. Your neck and spine are nothing to play around with. My mother had a patient who had a cerebral hemorrhage after getting an "adjustment" and that's not exactly an unheard of effect, IIRC. There also no good science whatsoever behind the idea that spinal misalignment causes the majority of health problems. Some chiropractic treatment might be benign or even helpful (through placebo or if all they do is basically give you a back massage) but in general I think it's dangerous quackery.

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:23 PM

I work primarily on a stroke floor, and work float on orthopedic and spine injury. Honestly, if someone throws a clot do to an adjustment, they were most likely on their way and primed to throw a clot with some seriously advanced atherosclerosis. I mean, people crack their necks and have "Adjustments" in all sorts of sports endeavors free from CVAs. AND, if you do the numbers, such incidences are actually quite rare, and NOBODY can prove (or disprove) that the adjustment was the cause.

7d0c3ea9bf8be00b93e6433d8f125ac3

(7540)

on August 01, 2011
at 03:24 PM

Actually chiropractic can be extremely dangerous. Your neck and spine are nothing to play around with. My mother had a patient who had a cerebral hemorrhage after getting an "adjustment" and that's not exactly an unheard of effect, IIRC. There also no good science whatsoever behind the idea that spinal misalignment causes the majority of health problems. Some chiropractic treatment might be benign or even helpful (through placebo or if all they do is basically give you a back massage) but in general I think it's dangerous quackery.

69a2a5deb24d5b8d3aae3d9652fac564

(1020)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:37 PM

Anectdotally, after years of taking literally thousands of histories on stroke patients, I've yet to come across a single patient who's CVA resulted from a Chiropractic adjustment. In fact, rarely are they the result of physical trauma. I assure you, if one compiled a list of injuries (Not just CVAs) caused by irresponsible practitioners in allopathic medicine, it would DWARF any of the lists you can find on quackwatch.

1
518be53d5bdcf1d04fcb1a171bd3f0b1

on August 01, 2011
at 09:21 AM

I've always used homoeopathy with my daughter rather than pharms and we have got her through glue ear, chicken pox... and all the other regular childhood diseases. I know it works but it never ceases to amaze me each time it works so rapidly once you hit on the right remedy. The most effective way for it to work though is via a homoeopath. It's all a bit of a mystery otherwise!!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 01, 2011
at 09:37 PM

Yes, KC gave a clear explanation of his prejudices. He believes homeopathy is nothing but a placebo and based upon his conviction he's going to downvote Amanda.

D3ff004d4a0c42b67cc2c49a5ee9c0f3

(5801)

on August 01, 2011
at 11:10 AM

Ear infections, chicken pox, and most childhood diseases only last from 3 to 7 days without treatment. Most treatments (including homeopathy) do nothing for the disease because by the time you get to the doctor, start taking medicine, etc. the kid is already on the downside of the illness.

07ca188c8dac3a17f629dd87198d2098

(7970)

on August 01, 2011
at 01:38 PM

I can't stand by seeing this with a positive vote tally. @mth is totally on the mark here, and there is absolutely no way that homeopathy does anything other than act as a placebo. So yes, I applied a downvote here.

5ccb98f6ae42ce87e206cf3f6a86039f

(11581)

on August 01, 2011
at 02:57 PM

+1 KC for a nice clear explanation for a down vote. Even if I didn't agree with you, I'm at the point of voting up any person who owns their down vote with a clear reason.

5de2fffda92c0bf2be7ede10cad55546

(1781)

on August 02, 2011
at 08:31 AM

I downvoted for exactly the same reasons as KC but I see the OP has selected it as the best answer so I guess Noah was spot on in his assessment. The OP was after validation not evidence, for which none CAN exist.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on August 02, 2011
at 05:24 AM

Thomas- I find it interesting how strongly you defend homeopathy from ridicule, after noticing how often you've ridiculed Chris Kresser for graduating from acupuncture school. Only one of these modalities has a plausible biological mechanism and doesn't violate basic tenets of physics, and it isn't the one that rhymes with "chromeopathy".

518be53d5bdcf1d04fcb1a171bd3f0b1

(187)

on September 02, 2011
at 10:08 AM

How can you be so sure it doesn't work? I can be sure it does work because I have experience of it working over and over again. I can understand anyone saying they can't see how it can work but to be convinced it doesn't when you have no experience of it not working... I agree it defies logic but to assume we understand how everything works is just arrogant. I will continue to use it knowing from experience that I am right in my choice.

-3
A45955e4c4cbe88ed6645828ba13f75a

(132)

on August 02, 2011
at 04:28 AM

Homeopathic arnica is fabulous. With 3 kids I use it all the time. And you really see the difference. If I forget to give it to them they end up with big bruises. If they take the arnica, what I expect to be a major bruise (as judged by the sound of the "thud" when they fall and how much they cry) ends up at nothing.

My hubby used to suffer from migraines which would leave him miserable and stuck in a dark room for hours until they passed. I gave him a homeopathic remedy as the migraine was developing and in half an hour he was better and we went out shopping (bright lights which before would have blinded him). Since then he never gets migraines. He was a total non-believer until then.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on August 03, 2011
at 11:16 AM

i hard on arnica homeopathic and hypericum.

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