3

votes

Why does "Paleo" seem to be absent from the history books?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 27, 2012 at 7:38 PM

Something that has been baffling me, are there instances of religion, literature, or just general historical records of where people have warned against the effects of grains/wheat? You would think in the last 10,000 years many people would have discovered the more negative side effects of grains and told someone about it right?? This is not me being anti-paleo as it might come across, just genuinely curious, I know the truth about grains :) Just curious though..

Medium avatar

(10611)

on December 02, 2012
at 02:04 PM

I doubt that CD. Ancestral emmer wheat contains more protein than modern bread wheat. http://www.isfae.org/scientficjournal/2011/issue3/pdf/Agriculture/005.pdf

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on November 30, 2012
at 07:12 PM

@thhq, Not saying Dave is right (I don't actually know), but you are working the wrong way. modern wheat has, for example, 5g of gluten for every 100g of raw wheat. Then legacy grain could have had .5g gluten for every 100g of raw wheat.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on November 30, 2012
at 07:07 PM

@Canis -- Just because people were "aware" that there was another way of living does not mean they thought it was healthy or optimal...

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 28, 2012
at 04:08 PM

I don't see it there Dave. The 10x claim is suspicious because wheat only contains about 5% protein. A 10x increase would raise that to 50%, making it a higher protein food than most meats.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 28, 2012
at 01:59 PM

http://paleohacks.com/questions/10455/how-has-wheat-changed-in-the-usa-in-the-last-60-years#axzz2DRCn2foe

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 28, 2012
at 01:22 PM

The records would be dismissive enough to exclude healt benefits, but there might be some documentation of what the foods were. The OT dietary laws reach back into unrecorded human experience/prehistory to show what was considered unclean, and it's mostly about meats. The laws appear to deal with issues like parasites, sanitation and freshness; nothing about the quality of the nutrients. The laws were used in a society that had a preference for meat-eating.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 28, 2012
at 01:10 PM

Which books? I'm always looking for something new to read.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:46 AM

10x the gluten? Reference?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:44 AM

Quixotic. The days of old when knights were bold. That's why I made the comment about living in town. I still live in a town, but I try to live each day as if it didn't exist. Which is of course impossible - that's my own paleo romantic adventure. My fat soluble vitamins come from local oysters. One a day with bacon.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:41 PM

Also, I don't think I understand the use of romance in this context, could you elaborate that?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:41 PM

Well I don't want to escape. I'd rather build based on what I know now. Namely, that grains will fuck you up, and that fat soluble vitamins along with calcium phosphorus zinc and heme iron are freakin' awesome.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:08 PM

We didn't learn ANY of that until very recently. No one writing a history book from 500BC until 1900 knew or cared about whether we shrank 6 inches. And think about the concept of a town. Totally Neolithic. How can we escape?

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:08 PM

If I misunderstood the direction of your comment, that's entirely my fault. And you're free to exact revenge if it'll make you happy. :)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 10:49 PM

I thought I was agreeing with you and upvoted. But I can change that.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 10:12 PM

I agree about "romance," definitely. In former times, the writers of history romanticized hunter cultures as aggressive half-animal barbarians, sometimes a threat, sometimes not. In modern times, we've invented a word, "Paleo," and some of us romanticize a return to a way of eating that's "barbaric" by the standards set by agriculture, SAD, etc. See Grok.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 10:03 PM

Sorry, thhq, this simply isn't true. Herodotus and many other classical and pre-classical authors wrote (usually pretty dismissively) of known tribes of hunters, the uncivilized, the barbarians who hadn't developed agriculture yet. Likewise the Romans and the Egyptians.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 27, 2012
at 09:49 PM

I mean, we have fossil records, I don't consider what I said to be romance. Have you read Jared Diamond's "The worst mistake in the history of the human race"? Humans shrank 6 inches and their bones became riddled with disease since the advent of agriculture. And I don't understand the get out of town reference?

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 09:43 PM

Actually, I've been reading a lot of Egyptian and Roman sources (historical, military and philosophical) that clearly indicate the agrarian societies were perfectly aware of tribes ("barbarians" mostly) that did not farm, but subsisted primarily by hunting. These tribes were usually a threat of some kind, but even when they weren't they were generally thought of as uncivilized, even subhuman. Agrarian cultures have been aware of the "paleo" way of life for a very, very long time.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 09:38 PM

I'm well aware of that, thhq. But it isn't the hunters and gatherers that invented alphabets, priesthoods, printing presses and the Internet. It was the agriculture-based societies that pushed all the technology making it possible for large-scale religion, literature and relatively sophisticated methods of leaving historical records, which is to the point of the original question.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:40 PM

High population density is incompatible with paleo.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:38 PM

While a lot of this is romance (you didn't mention perfect hair) I'll agree that paleo has never survived alongside more modern cultures. If you wish to try, my advice is to get outta town.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:31 PM

I suspect that grains/wheat have only become a large problem recently. Modern dwarf wheat has ten times the gluten and antibiotics have thrown our digestive systems out of whack.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:30 PM

I suspect that grains/wheat have only become a large problem recently. Modern dwarf whaet has ten times the gluten and antibiotics have thrown our digestive systems out of whack.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:22 PM

Before there was any written record there is considerable evidence of farming both animals and grains. Bones and grains are found together in central Anatolia ca 9000 BC. By the time anyone could write what happened in paleo times was lost to memory. Even the first known historian Heroditus, writing ca 500 BC, thought that the Greek gods were walking on earth 500-1000 years earlier. There was literally no knowledge that paleos even existed, as farming stretched back before the beginning of historic time.

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7 Answers

2
0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

on November 27, 2012
at 08:00 PM

At the risk of stating the obvious, agrarian culture made larger populations possible.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 09:38 PM

I'm well aware of that, thhq. But it isn't the hunters and gatherers that invented alphabets, priesthoods, printing presses and the Internet. It was the agriculture-based societies that pushed all the technology making it possible for large-scale religion, literature and relatively sophisticated methods of leaving historical records, which is to the point of the original question.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:40 PM

High population density is incompatible with paleo.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:08 PM

If I misunderstood the direction of your comment, that's entirely my fault. And you're free to exact revenge if it'll make you happy. :)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 10:49 PM

I thought I was agreeing with you and upvoted. But I can change that.

1
B3173217a49b5b0116078775a17eb21d

(11488)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:08 PM

Because eating lots of grains makes you dumb, so you can't figure stuff out?

1
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:49 PM

Maybe we are at a time in our history where we have tipped the scales of abuse. Too much processed foods, too much wheat, too much sugar, too much artificial fats.

Maybe we have selectively bred strands of wheat that have become increasingly more dangerous.

Perhaps the local mills which ground flour for daily consumption is different than processing vast amounts to sit on store shelves for months -- I remember my grandmother having "rotten" wheat in her pantry. I also know she sprouted grains before adding them to breads and soups..... None of which is common practice today.

Regardless we are at a point (and I would say it's been about 40 years of research) where we now know what issues wheat, sugar, and artificial processes can do to our health. Now we have to act and figure out a way to fix our problems.

1
Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:04 PM

With agriculture and grains came written languages, armies, etc. With sickness came the need for doctors and more technology. Hunter Gatherers, without heart disease, without cancer, with perfect teeth, didn't need all that mumbo jumbo, unfortunately, because the domestication of annuals depletes the topsoil, the grain eating societies had to expand, had to kill out the sustainable paleos so that they could use their land to grow more annuals that only depleted the soil more...

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 27, 2012
at 09:49 PM

I mean, we have fossil records, I don't consider what I said to be romance. Have you read Jared Diamond's "The worst mistake in the history of the human race"? Humans shrank 6 inches and their bones became riddled with disease since the advent of agriculture. And I don't understand the get out of town reference?

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 10:12 PM

I agree about "romance," definitely. In former times, the writers of history romanticized hunter cultures as aggressive half-animal barbarians, sometimes a threat, sometimes not. In modern times, we've invented a word, "Paleo," and some of us romanticize a return to a way of eating that's "barbaric" by the standards set by agriculture, SAD, etc. See Grok.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:08 PM

We didn't learn ANY of that until very recently. No one writing a history book from 500BC until 1900 knew or cared about whether we shrank 6 inches. And think about the concept of a town. Totally Neolithic. How can we escape?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:41 PM

Also, I don't think I understand the use of romance in this context, could you elaborate that?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:38 PM

While a lot of this is romance (you didn't mention perfect hair) I'll agree that paleo has never survived alongside more modern cultures. If you wish to try, my advice is to get outta town.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 28, 2012
at 12:44 AM

Quixotic. The days of old when knights were bold. That's why I made the comment about living in town. I still live in a town, but I try to live each day as if it didn't exist. Which is of course impossible - that's my own paleo romantic adventure. My fat soluble vitamins come from local oysters. One a day with bacon.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on November 27, 2012
at 11:41 PM

Well I don't want to escape. I'd rather build based on what I know now. Namely, that grains will fuck you up, and that fat soluble vitamins along with calcium phosphorus zinc and heme iron are freakin' awesome.

1
2e6e673ce3eb647407d260d4d57a731b

(1021)

on November 27, 2012
at 07:55 PM

one possibility is that the effects of grains in general have been greatly exaggerated. apparently wheat is a scape goat for a lot of the worlds problems. another possiblity is that grains were sprouted and fermented more often and for longer periods than they are today.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:22 PM

Before there was any written record there is considerable evidence of farming both animals and grains. Bones and grains are found together in central Anatolia ca 9000 BC. By the time anyone could write what happened in paleo times was lost to memory. Even the first known historian Heroditus, writing ca 500 BC, thought that the Greek gods were walking on earth 500-1000 years earlier. There was literally no knowledge that paleos even existed, as farming stretched back before the beginning of historic time.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 28, 2012
at 01:22 PM

The records would be dismissive enough to exclude healt benefits, but there might be some documentation of what the foods were. The OT dietary laws reach back into unrecorded human experience/prehistory to show what was considered unclean, and it's mostly about meats. The laws appear to deal with issues like parasites, sanitation and freshness; nothing about the quality of the nutrients. The laws were used in a society that had a preference for meat-eating.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 10:03 PM

Sorry, thhq, this simply isn't true. Herodotus and many other classical and pre-classical authors wrote (usually pretty dismissively) of known tribes of hunters, the uncivilized, the barbarians who hadn't developed agriculture yet. Likewise the Romans and the Egyptians.

0
4b5be253ac1981c690689cab7e4bf06d

(3043)

on November 28, 2012
at 05:08 PM

The issues that people have had with diets started with the Industrial Revolution. Prior to that, people where eating "organic" farmed food from soil that was able to replenish its nutrients, as well as grass fed and pastured animals.

Because there was no other option.

When industry starts playing with food, and substituting chemicals and man made processes into the food supply, that is when you had issues. Not to mention the whole sedentary lifestyle that is only possible with technology.

In short, grains and lentils are only a problem today because 1) the food has changed, both in how it is grown and processed, and 2) we are not burning off calories working for more food, and thus our internal systems are haing to adapt.

The more damage our bodies have sustained, the more "basic" we have to go. That's why some people can eat white rice and sweet potatoes, and other people have issues with them.

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 27, 2012
at 08:27 PM

Because farming predates history. Grains and domestic animals were the norm. What we know about paleos has been discovered almost entirely in the last 100 years.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on November 28, 2012
at 01:10 PM

Which books? I'm always looking for something new to read.

0382fa263de4c83328dc34a56e25437f

(4238)

on November 27, 2012
at 09:43 PM

Actually, I've been reading a lot of Egyptian and Roman sources (historical, military and philosophical) that clearly indicate the agrarian societies were perfectly aware of tribes ("barbarians" mostly) that did not farm, but subsisted primarily by hunting. These tribes were usually a threat of some kind, but even when they weren't they were generally thought of as uncivilized, even subhuman. Agrarian cultures have been aware of the "paleo" way of life for a very, very long time.

3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on November 30, 2012
at 07:07 PM

@Canis -- Just because people were "aware" that there was another way of living does not mean they thought it was healthy or optimal...

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