7

votes

Long-term high-fat lacto-paleo diet, odd symptoms, what is missing??

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 21, 2011 at 2:36 AM

I've been eating paleo (with IF) for more than two years, high-fat paleo for almost 1.5 years, and 6 months ago I decreased exercise and protein intake and added root vegetables. I am currently suffering from a number of symptoms, which appear to have come on gradually:

  • Inexplicable food cravings which are unresolved by eating anything currently in my diet (often resulting in hyperphagia)
  • Very bloody gums upon brushing
  • Constant fatigue, sleep does not feel restful unless it's 10+ hours
  • Low sexual drive

Another friend of mine who eats a nearly identical diet has the same symptoms, plus increasing carbohydrate intolerance, poor wound healing, decreased mood and a harder time gaining weight/muscle, and he is getting worse... I also suffer from diarrhea, even while eating fully paleo, which is sometimes alleviated by digestive enzymes. Added: another friend eats a nearly identical diet without these symptoms, and the only difference we can tell is that she eats more fermented foods (especially sauerkraut).

My lab work from less than a year ago showed low vitamin B-12, normal magnesium, high-normal testosterone, low-normal TSH. Currently not supplementing with anything except vitamin D and cod liver oil.

My diet consists of: beef (often grass-fed) and rarely other meats, grass-fed beef liver, non-pastured heavy cream, hard cheeses, Fage Total yogurt, Kerrygold butter, coconut products of all kinds, dark chocolate (85%+), potatoes and sweet potatoes, a small variety of vegetable matter. Very occasionally I have fruit, nuts, a cheat with rice or legumes, alcohol, or something sugary - no gluten.

Until more recently I was not eating liver very often, and did not always eat pastured butter, so nutrient deficiency seems possible. In response to these symptoms, in the last month I have greatly increased my variety of vegetable intake (as did my friend), as well as adding substantial amounts of seafood. Thus far we have not seen any difference.

My friend tried vitamin K (edit: he tried MK-7), which seemed to partially but not fully alleviate the bleeding gums, so I have started supplementing that (edit: MK-4) as well. My friend and I both tried a vitamin C megadose regimen, 4g/day then 4g/hour until intestinal intolerance, that did not seem to help. He has now started supplementing with selenium, the results are still too early to tell.

So everyone, what do you think? Something is very clearly missing from our diet. In every other regard we seem to be quite healthy.

Hypotheses and interventions:

  • Malabsorption - this fits with my diarrhea and B-12 deficiency, and his lack of weight gain. What else are we potentially not absorbing? Can we ever repair this?
  • Vitamin B-12 - I had a known deficit, tried oral B-12, have not gotten this retested. Oral might still fall prey to malabsorption, so my next step is to try sublingual.
  • Selenium - we may know soon. I tried supplementing this a while back, and I eat brazil nuts out of nut mixes whenever I see them.
  • Magnesium - just about everyone doesn't get enough, and malabsorption can be an issue here. Blood levels were within the reference range, but hypomagnesemia is distinct from magnesium deficiency...
  • Added: Iodine - it is entirely reasonable my intake is low, due to historical lack of seafood and only sometimes adding table salt. But the symptoms don't seem to fit, and my thyroid is functioning excellently as far as I can tell from TSH levels and basal metabolic rate.
  • Added: Intestinal parasite - this could explain various nutrient deficiencies, and my friend's lack of weight gain. Never had it tested, but I don't seem to have the same weight problems my friend does.
  • Added: Dairy intolerance - if I can't process dairy products for some reason this could result in diarrhea, which alone could potentially cause malabsorption. I have never tried a full dairy elimination since switching to paleo, so this is worth considering. Lactose seems much more likely to be problematic than casein.
  • Added: Fermented foods - as noted above another friend without problems eats similarly, except for more fermented foods. But we tried Vit K MK-7, and I do eat yogurt, not sure what else is missing here.
  • Added: Bone stock - contributes mostly gelatin, plus a handful of micronutrients. Seems fairly unlikely to be the culprit - my healthy friend doesn't eat it either. May be missing minerals.
  • Added: Multiple problems - maybe the gums are just gingivitis, sleep issues due to any number of problems, the food cravings some other minor micronutrient deficiency, etc, etc. Much less parsimonious theory. Predicts we would see some symptoms clearing up but not others.

What else might be missing?

Thank you all for your help. I look forward to days without food cravings and nights of restful sleep again.

Update, May 21st: Began a sublingual B-12 regimen, 1.2 mg a few times per day. It could take a couple of weeks to significantly replenish liver stores. My friend is currently trying selenium.

Update, May 31st: Still tired and bleeding gums after B-12 supplementation, food cravings fluctuating a bit. I am going to add a multimineral supplement next, possibly liver and fermented foods. Friend still taking selenium, eating liver every other day, added magnesium, added kimchi for fermented food, no lactose except for butter - bleeding appears to be less substantial. Will try lactose-free for two weeks next.

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on September 03, 2013
at 06:02 PM

You think way too much and take way too many supplements. Stop spinning your wheels and add back carbs consistently for about a month. Those symptoms are just so obviously related to long-term ketosis. B12 won't do anything. 90% of the pouplations has low B12 but they don't show your symptoms. Your TSH doesn't mean anything. Get your FT3 tested and see if they aren't close to the bottom of the range. Those symptoms correlated to the tee with low FT3 euthyroid resulting from ketosis. Get a clue.

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on September 03, 2013
at 05:58 PM

Look, what you wrote here is textbook example of glucose deficiency which Paul Jaminet does a wonderful job of explicating. Just because you added back carbs temporarily is not gonna fix your Vit C deficiency leading to bleeding gums, which is scurvy, as Rose noted above. Your intransigence will only make you suffer more. I mean, I've seen this so often, it's not even funny.

8ce8b8fd33944e67dfd6277e7b671815

(327)

on September 03, 2013
at 05:40 PM

also guess what b1 is in fermented foods...

D45e43b08cd99a04f5d4294a871e1078

(1010)

on December 20, 2011
at 04:13 AM

^Just one other thing you wouldn't eat if agriculture didn't exist. I think you'll find no-caffine diet will allow you to be able to feel high without being on caffeine. It's brutal for the first two weeks, but please report back!

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:49 AM

Old TSH was just above 1, will get my levels checked again soon.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:45 AM

Yes. That would probably contribute to nutrient deficiency. Do you see any other role it might play? I intend to quit caffeine within the next month for other reasons, maybe it will help.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:42 AM

Glutamine is a good suggestion, I haven't tried that yet, thanks! I just got new health insurance, so I am planning to get a huge battery of tests done, probably the SpectraCell kit.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:22 AM

"My friend carefully check his stool for a couple of weeks"- do you mean he checked it himself? It would be very hard to tell if he had intestinal parasites by appearance- he would be better off to get a lab to analyze a sample. Some larger parasites will also stick on the the intestinal wall, not leaving in the stool. I would discuss this possibility with a doctor, it's too hard to check out yourself.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on June 01, 2011
at 07:39 PM

Already supplementing K2 MK-4 and D3. These problems have been getting increasingly worse during my period of increasing carb intake, so this seems fairly unlikely.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on June 01, 2011
at 05:22 PM

Rud, you are suspended for your language.

3b7e6c77a5412587152c9e3f22b41c2a

(434)

on June 01, 2011
at 03:43 PM

As I mentioned over on http://paleohacks.com/questions/41021#41515 , I had some scurvy-ish symptoms and vitamin C supplementation seems to help. Things to note (that I may not have made clear on my other answer): 1. It took more than a year on zero carb before I developed the symptoms, 2. It took more than a month on very high dose vit C before they started clearing up. I increased my vitamin C dosage by 500 mg a day for 30 days straight before I started decreasing it again, and my symptoms didn't start improving until I had decreased it again.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:25 AM

@Grok - it's funny to hear you describe it as brainwashed and f-ed up, since that's the exact terminology used by everyone who has trouble on LFRV and finally breaks out of the banana cult.

4145b36f1488224964edac6258b75aff

(7821)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:24 AM

@Grok - it's funny to hear you describe it as brainwashed and f-ed up, since that's the exact terminology used by all the LFRV failures who have spoken out against the banana cult.

3c49f67b3c8c0b580e89fdba0b95a8e8

(211)

on June 01, 2011
at 11:20 AM

B12 is not only a vegan problem. A close friend is very lactose intolerant and is currently dealing with a b12 deficiency as a result of damage caused to the gut.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 25, 2011
at 08:50 AM

Interesting idea! It seems we are likely not getting enough potassium... it doesn't fit all the symptoms, but potentially the fatigue. These issues may not all be related.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on May 25, 2011
at 08:00 AM

It's not about what caveman ate. Welcome.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on May 25, 2011
at 02:51 AM

Tubers are just as paleo as fruit, perhaps more. Not to mention, potatoes and sweet potatoes contain way more potassium than ANY fruit.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 24, 2011
at 10:58 PM

Glad you thought of it, and sorry it didn't pan out. I hope the B12 and selenium help you and your friend. BTW, I may have missed it, but I don't see folate deficiency anywhere on this page. If you haven't, perhaps look into that. Good luck!

Fa9f340eddbad9a544184c688fa4dcdd

(6433)

on May 24, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Good luck with everything, and be sure to keep us updated. :)

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 23, 2011
at 07:57 PM

My friend carefully checked his stool for a couple of weeks recently and found no evidence of parasites. This theory seems less likely, but I will revisit it if other interventions do not work.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:48 AM

The hyperphagia is almost certainly due to malabsorption! I would be surprised if I had an autoimmune disorder develop on paleo, but anything is possible, and maybe it began long ago and I depleted my B-12 reserves over time. Intestinal parasites is an excellent idea, thank you!

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:46 AM

I should note that my pattern of fasting is highly random. I frequently eat more than one large meal per day, and I recently completed a week-long fast. I generally feel much much better while fasting than not, which may itself be a clue.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:43 AM

I never did a full dairy elimination, so that may be worth trying. I see your point about dairy --> diarrhea --> malabsorption.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:42 AM

I did notice some problems with casomorphins - constipation and sluggishness - before supplementing with digestive enzymes during dairy-containing meals. If this theory is correct it could explain the life-long diarrhea, which could itself cause malabsorption... I never tried full dairy elimination, it seems like a good experiment.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:38 AM

Good point Rose - which is why both my friend and I tried a vitamin C megadose regimen. Unfortunately we did not see any difference in our condition after taking a few hundred grams, up to intestinal intolerance levels. Given that vitamin C is cheap I see no reason not to continue supplementation, but this was one of our first theories too and did not pan out. :(

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 21, 2011
at 05:10 PM

There are some really excellent ideas in here. Sharp thinking!

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:45 PM

@Grok More plants and carbs is by no means taboo around here. I feel you're just trying to be antagonistic to make a point. @Will I agree with Grok. Perhaps try out some more plant-based carbs and lower fat and see how that makes you feel. Different strokes for different folks.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 03:16 PM

Edited to add that I do supplement with CLO, thanks for the suggestion! I'm not sure how much a variety of antioxidants matters or not.

A7ac68389a10bc99f33885e7ed0dbfe0

(165)

on May 21, 2011
at 01:25 PM

Please send to Robb and Greg on Robb's podcast, would love to hear him hack it. You might post it on his website's forum as well. Keep us posted.

A7ac68389a10bc99f33885e7ed0dbfe0

(165)

on May 21, 2011
at 01:24 PM

I was listening to Latest in Paleo... Angelo mentions that there are 1000s of variations of Vitamin D, and that supplementation just takes care of one of them... while sun exposure to the skin causes the creation of all the ones we need naturally. Not sure if this is true, but I know that when I get plenty of sun (obviously not overly exposed) I feel on a mental high (in a great mood).

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 21, 2011
at 01:20 PM

Sleep more; make sure you're getting sufficient mineral intake (maybe buy a multi-mineral); a mushroom (beta glucan) extact seems to work really wll for me when I have lingering sinus infections.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on May 21, 2011
at 11:41 AM

my comment here did not violate any rules and i stand by it.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 21, 2011
at 09:36 AM

No I wasn't drunk. But what would cause someone to feel drunk even though they haven't had alcohol in years? Since you couldn't decipher any information from my answer....I don't really care actually, I know my advice is better than saying scientific mumbo jumbo. You're an idiot, and don't ever leave a comment like that about me again.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on May 21, 2011
at 08:59 AM

this is an extremely strange answer Rud. Were you drunk when you wrote this or something. I'm sorry but it's just all over the place and seems like nonsense.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on May 21, 2011
at 08:51 AM

Downvote = comment.

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on May 21, 2011
at 07:41 AM

I used to be all f-ed up and brainwashed too: http://vimeo.com/11223335

Cc93847bfa820f0f2da654060b401fa5

(746)

on May 21, 2011
at 07:31 AM

B12 is only a Vegan problem ;) What about caffeine consumption? So basically you feel worse than you did on SAD? Sounds like high fat is working well. I mean this from the bottom of my heart Will... try eating more plants, more carbs, less fat. I know that's taboo around these parts, but it may give you your life back.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:43 AM

Chronic low-grade infection is interesting... I have been experiencing occasional micro-colds associated with sleep deprivation, but a two-day fast almost always clears it up. What should I be looking for? What intervention would you suggest to cure such a thing?

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:41 AM

I am supplementing vitamin D. The food cravings are unabated by eating starch or sugar - and I have had distinct cravings for both in the past. I have not experienced much difference adding back starch, my friend is less fortunate. His carb intolerance is growing worse and worse, to the point he's largely stopped eating them, and is still suffering the same symptoms.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:25 AM

The sweet tooth was more of a problem during the initial high-protein phase when I was losing tons of weight. Now I basically never eat sugar in practice, outside of the usually-90% dark chocolate. I drink TONS of water, especially while fasting (which I do most days), so that seems less likely. Iodine is a question because of my lack of seafood, but this doesn't fit the symptoms of iodine deficiency. Thanks for the help, keep those questions coming!

Medium avatar

(5136)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:15 AM

maybe the thing to do is to get another blood test and possibly talk your friend with similar symptoms into having one as well.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:13 AM

gosh, so hard to say, no? Don't know how much chocolate, potatoes, leugmes, other sugary cheats and muscle meats you eat compared to fats in real life. still have a bit of a sweet tooth? since your fats are low quality (not pastured cream, supermarket eggs, though good work on the nice butter) could they be losing out to sugar spikes? I brought up alcohol because of b12 and diarrhea... but then again, are you sure you're not dehydrated? are your inexplicable food cravings for liquids, not food? iodine levels? minerals? I'm sorry all I can offer are more questions.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 03:16 AM

I very rarely but occasionally do drink alcohol. I eat eggs, although cooked and usually not free-range - I am in the process of correcting this now. I do NOT make bone stock, and have been wondering about the implications of this.

Medium avatar

(5136)

on May 21, 2011
at 02:55 AM

sorry, forgot to say, im not sure if that's whats causing your problem, but i personally don't think it could be good

Medium avatar

(5136)

on May 21, 2011
at 02:54 AM

im certainly no doctor, but if liver was only a recent addition and so was seafood, it looks like you're lacking variety in your diet. Shellfish, fin fish, lamb, bison, kidneys, pork, duck, duck fat, egg yolks (?- no mention in your post), gelatin (were you making stock?), marrow (?), herbs, all of these are delicious and have a place in a healthy diet. I personally also enjoy a variety of vegetables as well like spinach, leeks, onions, artichokes, mushrooms, and many others. I suppose I gotta ask too, do you drink any alcohol?

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 02:50 AM

I have literally almost no stress - and it's a wonderful way to live! My friend doesn't feel stressed most of the time, but as his mood is declining he is suffering seemingly randomly from increased anxiety.

76f3ead3aa977d876bcf3331d35a36e9

(4620)

on May 21, 2011
at 02:46 AM

How are your stress levels?

  • F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

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16 Answers

8
Fa9f340eddbad9a544184c688fa4dcdd

(6433)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:52 PM

I'm surprised that nobody else has picked up on this so far, but I would stop the If-ing ASAP as this can put your body under unnecessary stress, especially if you started before achieving correct hormonal environment.

The hyperphagia is probably connected to your malabsorption problem; your body wants you to eat until it has satisified it's nutrient needs.

Equally, have you been tested for intestinal parasites? I don't mean to alarm you unnecessarily, but it seems a distinct possibility as not only do parasitic infections cause fatigue and malabsorption, but many Paleos here seem to consume raw meat/other animal products or raw dairy.

Have you been tested for pernicious anaemia? This is one of the most common causes of B12 deficiency, and it is a malabsorption/autoimmune disorder characterised by bleeding gums and fatigue.

Finally, you may well benefit from iodine supplementation, but this is a long-term project. If you decide to supplement iodine, remember that it is vital to avoid triggering reactive hypothyroidism, so start by supplementing 500mcg daily and increasing at a rate of no more than double per month, until you reach the high dose upper ceiling of 12.5mg.

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 21, 2011
at 05:10 PM

There are some really excellent ideas in here. Sharp thinking!

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:46 AM

I should note that my pattern of fasting is highly random. I frequently eat more than one large meal per day, and I recently completed a week-long fast. I generally feel much much better while fasting than not, which may itself be a clue.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:48 AM

The hyperphagia is almost certainly due to malabsorption! I would be surprised if I had an autoimmune disorder develop on paleo, but anything is possible, and maybe it began long ago and I depleted my B-12 reserves over time. Intestinal parasites is an excellent idea, thank you!

Fa9f340eddbad9a544184c688fa4dcdd

(6433)

on May 24, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Good luck with everything, and be sure to keep us updated. :)

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 23, 2011
at 07:57 PM

My friend carefully checked his stool for a couple of weeks recently and found no evidence of parasites. This theory seems less likely, but I will revisit it if other interventions do not work.

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:22 AM

"My friend carefully check his stool for a couple of weeks"- do you mean he checked it himself? It would be very hard to tell if he had intestinal parasites by appearance- he would be better off to get a lab to analyze a sample. Some larger parasites will also stick on the the intestinal wall, not leaving in the stool. I would discuss this possibility with a doctor, it's too hard to check out yourself.

4
3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:55 PM

I'm going to go out on a huge limb here -- HUGE limb -- and suggest looking into the symptoms of scurvy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy#Symptoms

The bleeding gums and the lethargy raise the red flag for me. In the zero carb community there have been a couple of cases lately of scurvy-like symptoms. Interestingly enough, these were with men who'd been eating low to zero carb for a long time, and in one case, who had always suffered from a chronic malabsorption/diarrhea issue.

Even though you're eating potatoes and some fruit, there's the potential issue of glucose/C competition in uptake. I know the etiology of scurvy is considered settled, but I don't think it's a closed case -- there are alternative hypotheses about the causes of scurvy that should probably be entertained.

Anyway, I'm not certain this is the right answer, but given your symptoms, I wanted to put this possibility on the table for your consideration.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:38 AM

Good point Rose - which is why both my friend and I tried a vitamin C megadose regimen. Unfortunately we did not see any difference in our condition after taking a few hundred grams, up to intestinal intolerance levels. Given that vitamin C is cheap I see no reason not to continue supplementation, but this was one of our first theories too and did not pan out. :(

3aea514b680d01bfd7573d74517946a7

(11996)

on May 24, 2011
at 10:58 PM

Glad you thought of it, and sorry it didn't pan out. I hope the B12 and selenium help you and your friend. BTW, I may have missed it, but I don't see folate deficiency anywhere on this page. If you haven't, perhaps look into that. Good luck!

3b7e6c77a5412587152c9e3f22b41c2a

(434)

on June 01, 2011
at 03:43 PM

As I mentioned over on http://paleohacks.com/questions/41021#41515 , I had some scurvy-ish symptoms and vitamin C supplementation seems to help. Things to note (that I may not have made clear on my other answer): 1. It took more than a year on zero carb before I developed the symptoms, 2. It took more than a month on very high dose vit C before they started clearing up. I increased my vitamin C dosage by 500 mg a day for 30 days straight before I started decreasing it again, and my symptoms didn't start improving until I had decreased it again.

2
13c5a9f1678d75b93f269cdcf69f14d5

(2339)

on May 21, 2011
at 03:36 PM

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:42 AM

I did notice some problems with casomorphins - constipation and sluggishness - before supplementing with digestive enzymes during dairy-containing meals. If this theory is correct it could explain the life-long diarrhea, which could itself cause malabsorption... I never tried full dairy elimination, it seems like a good experiment.

2
4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 21, 2011
at 03:51 AM

Your diet seems very solid to me; similar to my own (though I'm not low carb). You don't seem to include any fish. I don't think omega 3 deficiency is behind your symptoms but I'd include some wild salmon in that diet.

See if your symptoms resolve if you add more potatoes, fruits, and vegetables. If not, you should consider non-dietary causes, like some sort of chronic low-grade infection.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on May 21, 2011
at 01:20 PM

Sleep more; make sure you're getting sufficient mineral intake (maybe buy a multi-mineral); a mushroom (beta glucan) extact seems to work really wll for me when I have lingering sinus infections.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:43 AM

Chronic low-grade infection is interesting... I have been experiencing occasional micro-colds associated with sleep deprivation, but a two-day fast almost always clears it up. What should I be looking for? What intervention would you suggest to cure such a thing?

1
E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on June 01, 2011
at 12:35 PM

You need more carbs, more fruit, more tubers and lots of salt.

Get K2 mk4 supp/D3

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on June 01, 2011
at 07:39 PM

Already supplementing K2 MK-4 and D3. These problems have been getting increasingly worse during my period of increasing carb intake, so this seems fairly unlikely.

D33a8d5f095a8532ddf7a0d6c27bfe63

(578)

on September 03, 2013
at 05:58 PM

Look, what you wrote here is textbook example of glucose deficiency which Paul Jaminet does a wonderful job of explicating. Just because you added back carbs temporarily is not gonna fix your Vit C deficiency leading to bleeding gums, which is scurvy, as Rose noted above. Your intransigence will only make you suffer more. I mean, I've seen this so often, it's not even funny.

1
3c49f67b3c8c0b580e89fdba0b95a8e8

on May 21, 2011
at 05:25 AM

The first thing I would do is eliminate dairy. It could be irritating and partially (or completely) responsible for your diarrhea (and subsequent malabsorption of B12). I'd also consider some time of probiotic to help your gut flora repair itself.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 22, 2011
at 12:43 AM

I never did a full dairy elimination, so that may be worth trying. I see your point about dairy --> diarrhea --> malabsorption.

1
06d21b99c58283ce575e36c4ecd4a458

(9948)

on May 21, 2011
at 03:43 AM

It would appear that prior to implementing more carbs that you were fully keto adapted and you were a fat burning machine and then you introduced the carbs and your body doesn't yet know how to handle this new food that you are sending to the mitochondria.

Go back to the very successful 1.5 years of lacto paleo and all these problems will abate.

In the last 6 months the carbs have become addicting and now your body craves more and you won't quite do that because you want to be somewhat carb happy.

See the question on carb addition and evaluate.

Go back to when you were successful and never retreat to your addiction again.

The one thing I did not hear, was supplementation of Vit D3. It increases your immune system, prevents dental and gum problems, assists calcium to move into the bones, and elevates mood. 80% of the population is Vit D3 deficient because we are sunphobic. 10000IU a day for 3 months then back off to 5000IU will get your serum Vit D3 up. The Quilt on these boards wants his clients to be between 70 and 100ng/ml. Vit D Council says over 60.

Good luck and get back with an update.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 04:41 AM

I am supplementing vitamin D. The food cravings are unabated by eating starch or sugar - and I have had distinct cravings for both in the past. I have not experienced much difference adding back starch, my friend is less fortunate. His carb intolerance is growing worse and worse, to the point he's largely stopped eating them, and is still suffering the same symptoms.

A7ac68389a10bc99f33885e7ed0dbfe0

(165)

on May 21, 2011
at 01:24 PM

I was listening to Latest in Paleo... Angelo mentions that there are 1000s of variations of Vitamin D, and that supplementation just takes care of one of them... while sun exposure to the skin causes the creation of all the ones we need naturally. Not sure if this is true, but I know that when I get plenty of sun (obviously not overly exposed) I feel on a mental high (in a great mood).

1
3d8b7e908d8a36a17aaf89f0f83f4df1

on May 21, 2011
at 03:43 AM

I am reading the Weston A Price book, Nourishing Traditions, and according to it you need to take good quality Cod.liver oil to get the proper balance of A, K, D, E to be able to absorb mag. It sounds like to me that your diet is unbalanced in some way. Perhaps the lack of a variety of antioxidants like quercetin and resveratrol?

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 21, 2011
at 03:16 PM

Edited to add that I do supplement with CLO, thanks for the suggestion! I'm not sure how much a variety of antioxidants matters or not.

0
8ce8b8fd33944e67dfd6277e7b671815

(327)

on September 03, 2013
at 05:37 PM

I'm going to go out a huge limb here.. and say that you need more variety in your foods/ animal sources of protein. For example pork is higher in b1, serious surprised no one has mentioned b1 considering it isn't in a lot of the food you listed.

8ce8b8fd33944e67dfd6277e7b671815

(327)

on September 03, 2013
at 05:40 PM

also guess what b1 is in fermented foods...

0
872fc0ab352325224cdf93e05c7c1850

on September 03, 2013
at 02:45 PM

I do not know if anyone has considered the fact that Folate should also be taken with vitamin b-12. There is a correlation and subsequent connection to them. They both can show the same symptoms and they are both integral in making sure that your DNA cells do their jobs. If you are insufficient in folate/b12 you need to supplement them both as they need each other to make sure that your red blood cells are able to carry enough oxygen to your brain and other parts of your body. There is a wonderful book called, "Could it be B12" -http://www.amazon.com/Could-It-Be-B12-Misdiagnoses/dp/1884995691 that you all should read. It explains exactly what happens when we are low on these vitamins and the permanent damage it can cause. I was very sick and found my b12/folate low. After three weeks of supplementing I got my life back and have been taking these vitamins due to my inability to absorb enough on my own and it has changed my life. YOU MUST DO THE RESEARCH, and not just experiment. These are water soluble vitamins and won't hurt you if you take a lot, but some vitamins are not and you can cause your body irreparable damage by taking too much. I had severe symptoms along with the gums bleeding, falling down for no reason, muscle spasms randomly occurring all over my body. Dead spots where I had no feeling on my skin, short term memory loss, the list goes on and on. Please see a neurologist is you have any weird physical symptoms. They can rule out other things and they automatically check your blood for EVERYTHING so they will find the vitamin deficiencies too. Good Luck!

0
82f1a5493101edd5fbfe4a4487cba254

on December 20, 2011
at 01:49 AM

I say drop the dairy and add some paleo friendly variation. I had no idea I had issues with dairy until I dropped it theny did a test reintroduction. Rob W. talks at length about food variation.

0
1c67bc28f4e44bbb8770b86df0463df3

on December 20, 2011
at 01:20 AM

Guts get damaged from over consumption of wheat/corn/gluten/beans etc, not what you have been eating. Is there a fix? Yup - Glutamine in large doses, for a week. If your going to try this, just do 4-6 servings a day for a week or until the bottle is empty. Is gut damage likely? Imho it is highly unlikely.

Get on a good multivitamin, take it 2x day with meals and continue Vit D, B, C supplementation. After a week of this, it will be extremely unlikely you have a vit/mineral deficiency.

IMO I would get your doctor to order you as many labs as possible (and a full physical), full blood panel, full hormone panel, thyroid panel, lipids, cortisol, glucose, and anything else you or he/she can think of, just to be sure its not something outside of your food intake that is causing your problem (which, IMO, it most likely is).

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:42 AM

Glutamine is a good suggestion, I haven't tried that yet, thanks! I just got new health insurance, so I am planning to get a huge battery of tests done, probably the SpectraCell kit.

0
D45e43b08cd99a04f5d4294a871e1078

(1010)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:15 AM

are you still drinking coffee?

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:45 AM

Yes. That would probably contribute to nutrient deficiency. Do you see any other role it might play? I intend to quit caffeine within the next month for other reasons, maybe it will help.

D45e43b08cd99a04f5d4294a871e1078

(1010)

on December 20, 2011
at 04:13 AM

^Just one other thing you wouldn't eat if agriculture didn't exist. I think you'll find no-caffine diet will allow you to be able to feel high without being on caffeine. It's brutal for the first two weeks, but please report back!

0
Da9f62a556d21ed9b8d957c75cfb2f7a

on December 19, 2011
at 11:21 PM

Which are your previous and updated TSH ?? above 2 usually indicates hypothyroidism

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on December 20, 2011
at 01:49 AM

Old TSH was just above 1, will get my levels checked again soon.

0
3e83e511e401770207ffbb0d31b8ffb4

on May 24, 2011
at 10:21 PM

Here's my guess: you are having your meat well done. That means the potassium is cooked out of it, and without fruit, you're not getting the potassium anywhere else. Add some fruit - it will help with the scurvy as well - and eat your meat rare on cuts where that is safe. If you don't like rare meat, letting it come to room temperature before cooking it will make it a lot more palatable.

Also, get rid of the potatoes; tubers are no more paleo than grains. If you want root vegetables, eat carrots and onions.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on May 25, 2011
at 08:00 AM

It's not about what caveman ate. Welcome.

F8fa4b0809d3b74fcf0361c0d53b60c1

(911)

on May 25, 2011
at 08:50 AM

Interesting idea! It seems we are likely not getting enough potassium... it doesn't fit all the symptoms, but potentially the fatigue. These issues may not all be related.

Ef4c5b09fdccf73be575d3a0c267fdd9

(2539)

on May 25, 2011
at 02:51 AM

Tubers are just as paleo as fruit, perhaps more. Not to mention, potatoes and sweet potatoes contain way more potassium than ANY fruit.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 21, 2011
at 03:07 AM

Interesting. Ughhhh, unfortunately, I think this is the answer. - 60% fat/30% protein/ 10% carbs is the core, but needs to be adjusted based on how you're feeling.
- If you still believe it's okay to have some rice, you should watch testimonial videos on glutenfreesociety.org. The truth is that gluten is in all grains. - Food is just like medication. Again, carb up about once a week. More potatoes, onions, vegetables. Then go back to more protein and fat.

I have the same symptoms as you. It's unfortunate because the easy to follow paleo rules have to be adjusted for it to work. Write back in a about four days. If there's no change after that amount of time, it's not working.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on May 21, 2011
at 09:36 AM

No I wasn't drunk. But what would cause someone to feel drunk even though they haven't had alcohol in years? Since you couldn't decipher any information from my answer....I don't really care actually, I know my advice is better than saying scientific mumbo jumbo. You're an idiot, and don't ever leave a comment like that about me again.

84666a86108dee8d11cbbc85b6382083

(2399)

on May 21, 2011
at 08:51 AM

Downvote = comment.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on May 21, 2011
at 11:41 AM

my comment here did not violate any rules and i stand by it.

Af1d286f0fd5c3949f59b4edf4d892f5

(18472)

on May 21, 2011
at 08:59 AM

this is an extremely strange answer Rud. Were you drunk when you wrote this or something. I'm sorry but it's just all over the place and seems like nonsense.

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on June 01, 2011
at 05:22 PM

Rud, you are suspended for your language.

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