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High carb paleo: why not?

Commented on April 17, 2014
Created March 20, 2014 at 8:01 PM

Okay so aside from the flood of answers I'll get about how carbs cause insulin issues and diabetes, and how fat is the most metabolically benign macronutrient, AND how I should stop obsessing over macro ratios... what do you think? Honestly...

I've never had any weight issues and used to eat tonnes of fruits, cereals, juices, etc... and as far as I know haven't had any issues with insulin or metabolism. I'm not planning to go back to that though. I'm paleo now.

Been thinking about metabolic typing. I think their macro ratio suggestions are bonkers (like 15/80/5 !?!?) but what if I up my carbs to 300-350 grams per day, or about 55% of my calories? Then I'd eat 80-90 grams of fat and 40-80 grams protein... Giving me a P/C/F of about 12/55/33 by calories.... Heck, if that works out I might experiment with even more carbs! I'm a natural snacker anyway.

FWIW I'm NOT an athlete so this isn't about performance; It's about feeling good and living long.

I apparently lean towards a carb/mixed type metabolism and have noticed some undesirable effects from even my moderately high-fat diet, currently around 12/33/55 P/C/F...

OK ALL HERE'S MY N=1 RESULTS AFTER 3 WEEKS:

I started the day after posting this, Friday the 21st. I thought I'd do it for a few months and see how I felt/looked/functioned but it's weird; I think I only managed 300+ grams a few days and those were really active high-calorie days (and forcing down the carbs + eating some rice/refined stuff). Without eating too much rice, and almost zero refined carbs, it's actually a challenge to force down 300+ grams of carbs from things like fruit, tubers, etc... with just a little white rice where appropriate.

Lots of days hovered between 180 and 280 grams but that's still me intentionally forcing down carbs at the expense of fat. When I relax and eat what feels right (in a paleo context) I end up right back around 150 grams. I also did notice some of the excellent energy balance and focus paleo offers sliding, but it wasn't too significant since I wasn't eating a lot of high-GI refined carbs.

So, all you trying to lose weight: take it from someone who's never had any weight issues. Someone whose body is very adept at maintaining weight (can't gain or lose it if I try)... The common recommendation of 150 +/- 50 grams is exactly what I eat when I JERF... (Just Eat Real Food)... So long as I have the macadamia nuts, coconuts, fatty meats, olive oil, etc... readily available, I naturally about half my calories from fat, roughly 30% from carbs, and 10-15% from protein. I also have 2 drinks nightly so actually I'm getting about 8% from alcohol metabolization.

I track my food intake most days very rigorously so my numbers aren't fudged. This is hard data (n=1, with me guessing at portions some times)...

I'm going back to just listening to my body now, since apparently that puts me right in the paleo macro sweet spot. Hopefully my little experiment sheds some light for others, particularly if you, like me, are moderately active non-athletes looking for balance.

Good luck to you all, whatever your goals may be!

I'm in it to feel good and live long...

Your friend,

Methodician

EDIT 4/23/14:

I've been JERF and eating carbs ad libitum still and, as summer sets in, my natural carb tolerance seems to have lifted a bit. I now approach 200+/-50 grams daily with zero conscious restriction. I'm exercising pretty regularly and find that the higher carb intake definitely allows for more strenuous glycolytic exertion on those days. It also appears to cause some noticable swings in mental focus and alertness, the leveling of which is one of the few things I do like about a loweish carb diet...

3e710fab7063494ce6010566704764ed

(15)

on April 17, 2014
at 11:30 PM

if you want the "why not" go read grain brain. its not just about weight gain or diabetes.

Medium avatar

(624)

on April 17, 2014
at 07:41 PM

Yeah I think it may have something to do with mitochondrial efficiency, energy balance, waste products, etc... Some peoples' bodies just seem to pull more energy out of the same food, or perhaps end up using less energy over all... I'd like to figure out what's going on but all I know is that I can't eat how much they tell me to eat. It's just excessive to me.

618fc5298c4a96b817c4918c795a875f

(1217)

on April 13, 2014
at 05:35 AM

Thanks for this - very close to my ratios. Good to know!

Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

(559)

on April 12, 2014
at 04:13 PM

Its funny you mentioned BMR because I am the same way. I am supposed to consume 2780 to maintain but eat way under that usually around 21-2200 and I have not dropped any weight oddly enough I'm 6' 160lbs

Medium avatar

(624)

on April 12, 2014
at 03:55 PM

Do you make natto? If so, how? Website? If not, where do you buy it and is it expensive?

Medium avatar

(624)

on April 12, 2014
at 03:51 PM

Nope. How'd you figure? It's weird because supposedly I eat less than my BMR yet I exercise almost daily. I should be eating like 2600+ calories but usually hover just under 2000 with the occational 3000 day. No weight gain or loss when I push myself outside these bounds.

2a6025992746ff6cd4ffb6ccf0aa03fc

(60)

on April 12, 2014
at 11:24 AM

A lot of the vegetables you mention are high-ish in sugars but not really in starch and don't contribute a lot of carbohydrate content overall. Not saying there's anything wrong with them, just mentioning that in my diet the only ones on that list that I eat specifically as a starchier veg are potato and parsnip. The others I consider just ordinary veg.

7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on April 12, 2014
at 12:07 AM

"

There are 2 types of carbohydrates, the bad complex carbs and the good refined carbs,

"

Could you elaborate on this? Usually people state the opposite as being true.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on April 11, 2014
at 07:17 PM

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you're not a very big eater btw.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 08:14 PM

haha most recently for me it was a heaping bowl of cabbage-and-brussel sprouts cooked into some nice thick beef stock. It seemed healthy and tasted great but the next morning I was in PAIN... terrible bloating and cramping. In retrospect I should have known better.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on March 21, 2014
at 06:22 PM

Thanks for the complement, I honestly do have a great deal of respect for you and your open-minded attitude. I didn't mean the placebo thing as a jab at all, all I meant to say that while it "feels good" to eat carbs the underlying processes taking place might not necessarily be beneficial. I completely empathize with you on the fibrous veggies causing gastrointestinal discomfort, believe me. I often overdo it on the veggies (usually cabbage, avocados, cucumbers being the worst offenders) and experience a great deal of discomfort too so I completely understand.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 06:14 PM

I'm hoping a period of increased carb/fat intake ratio will help balance out my gut flora, stabilize my dwindling appetite, and give my body a break from one extreme. Since I have a tough time with roughage in my diet, an increased carb allowance will also help me meet my micronutrient goals.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 06:11 PM

Insightful, rational, and well-reasoned as usual good sir. You're the number one paleohacker making me think about experimenting with ketosis. However, referring to my reaction as a placebo is an ill-founded jab. Slower gastric emptying due to high fat intake certainly isn't a placebo. Neither is the struggle I have with overly fibrous veggies or maintaining healthy gut flora.

I like the stable, clean energy and focus I get on HFLC but my body is sending signals can't ignore. Few if any of these signals result from placebo effects or psychosomatics.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 21, 2014
at 05:06 PM

I say this because I did a 2T per day pectin n=1 experiment two months ago, trying to increase satiation and reduce LDL. There was a little better satiation, maybe an extra 30 minutes after a meal, but hunger afterwards was the same or higher. My LDL went up, the same result as my last fiber experiment. I also had a lot of gas (the gut bacteria aren't exclusively making butyrate) and constipation. Good luck with the salad. How will you measure the effect?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 21, 2014
at 04:58 PM

The common source of resistant starch is fiber and you're right it's claimed to be 0 calories. No doubt the gut bacteria convert some of it into butyrate, and some of that gets into the bloodstream. The Guyenet article doesn't treat it as much of a nutrition source except for the intestines, in fact claiming that butyrate reduces intestinal wall permeability. Let's say that you eat your 40g RDA fiber (or 2T uncooked starch or pectin) and convert 5g into butyrate. That's about 50 calories total, and most of that is headed for the toilet.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 03:49 PM

Why would you expect my micros to go down? I won't be consuming lots of refined carbs and rice, I'll be consuming paleo friendly carbs and safe starches in moderation...

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 03:47 PM

As for concernts: I'm worried that my mental acuity and energetic stability will suffer. One great benefit of reducing my carb intake on Paleo is that my ADHD has all but ceased to exist. Here I thought it was somethign wrong with me all my life, but it was just my diet. Hopefully in keeping with a paleo inspired diet, increasing carbs won't lead me back to swings of focus/silly hyperactivity/lethargy.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 03:44 PM

I have to wonder if my interest in upping carbs is partially (subconsciously) inspired by the coming of summer...

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 03:40 PM

Insightful. Fear not, I only eat rice in moderation a couple times a week. Most of my carbs will be coming from potatoes/sweet potatoes and fruits, along with whatever trickles in from the rest of my food.

4775e2485bd498f20db64ab6fc77975f

(0)

on March 21, 2014
at 02:51 PM

When it comes to beans I also digest them way better than nuts, grains, and nightshades but they will still give me a bit of gut inflamation if I start consuming them in large quantities. I think they are a great addition to a paleo template in reasonable quantities.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on March 21, 2014
at 02:11 PM

When it comes to beans, I for one digest, at least the lighter varieties, perfectly. I have trouble with dairy, gluten, most nuts, most nightshades, strawberries, egg whites, but the beans go down fine. It helps that I eat them mostly as natto (soybeans, lentils, and adzuki), but even chickpeas, if they have been soaked two days, and well cooked, they are great.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on March 21, 2014
at 02:07 PM

I agree with your ideas but I am going to tweak them a bit. Even here up North, with one foot of iced snow still on the ground, when it comes to local starch you can choose between rutabagas, turnips, beets (chioggia and traditional), carrots, parsnips, potato, daikon, radish, celery and parsley root, salsify (black and white) and squash. Potato and squash have a whole set of varieties, and radish can contribute with some of the newer varieties (watermelon, black and hakurei) being large and mild roots. You can kraut most of these things. Cabbage has some starch. It is a lot of variety.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on March 21, 2014
at 01:57 PM

5 to 10%, as stated above. As soon as I have a min, I am going to post estimates based on what I ate the last few days.

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 21, 2014
at 04:47 AM

Very low carb does induce physiological insulin resistances (not pathalogical), to preserve glucose for the brain (because muscles run easily on ketones, and ketones produce muscle insulin resistance). This could be slightly negative I suppose, but then post meal glucose would be less, so it may also balance out. I don't think i'd be too concerned with that myself, but I eat moderate carb because I function better on 100-150.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on March 20, 2014
at 11:27 PM

200kcal of SCFA is of order 80 to 100 grams. There are people (e.g., freetheanimal and followers) who eat one tbsp of potato starch for breakfast. Agree that 200 is a lot, but 100+ is doable on an ordinary whole foods diet.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 20, 2014
at 11:16 PM

There are a lot of benefits to butyrate generation in the bowel, and the butyrate can feed the intestine itself. But it's pretty far down the line on being able to enter the bloodstream and feed the rest of the body to any appreciable degree. Therapeutic yes. Major source of fatty acid for metabolism no.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/butyric-acid-ancient-controller-of.html?m=1

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 20, 2014
at 11:06 PM

Well the main improvement I'm hoping for is a happier gut. It'd be nice if it gives me more energy and focus but I'm really doubting that.

The other thing is that my appetite is weak and carbs seem to help. I know it's a problem some people would love to have but trust me it sucks.

Lastly I find it's easier to balance out all my micronutrients when I can snack on things like potatoes, bananas, and coconut water without a second thought.

Oh, and I'm a light snacker by nature and I can barely get 3 meals down on HFLC, so I'd like to snack inbetween without feeling bloated.

543a65b3004bf5a51974fbdd60d666bb

(4493)

on March 20, 2014
at 11:05 PM

but how much RS do you need to eat to get to ~200 kcals in fat, quite a lot (excessive?) i would have thought...?

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on March 20, 2014
at 10:35 PM

My point is that resistant starches eventually become fat through bacterial fermentation. There is nothing in nutritiondata or similar website that accounts for that. They just assign 0 cal to RS and move on. That is not what happens in reality.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 20, 2014
at 09:39 PM

The paleo diet way to jack carbs up independently of fat is yams and fruit. I would include regular potatoes too since paleos ate solanums.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 20, 2014
at 09:30 PM

The big problem with carbs is satiation. Carbs help most when your body needs extra calories pronto. Diabetics carry glucose tabs for this reason, for treating hypoglycemia episodes.

Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on March 20, 2014
at 09:07 PM

Thanks, I had a feeling you were referring to me lol ;)

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 20, 2014
at 08:34 PM

Thank you! I'll go check out that forum. I had to preface my question with an acknowledgement of the opinions I knew I'd get from the HF/LC preachers around here. No offense to them... I even kind a like @TheGastronomer :-)

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15 Answers

0
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on April 12, 2014
at 05:14 PM

Just speaking for myself, when I eat carbs above about 125-150g per day it's like a switch to turn on the weight gain. Doesn't really matter if I'm exercising or not, it just starts to pack the weight around my waist.

Recently I was working out a lot (crossfit 3-4x per week plus running) and trying to stay low carb, and one day just kind of blew a fuse and ate a lot of carbs for about 2 weeks. It felt great, actually, but I gained about 5 pounds around my waist. I have learned that I feel great while I'm gaining weight, which isn't really a good thing. I have learned that I need to eat the right amount of carbs, not too many, not to few.

If I ate 300g of carbs per day I think I would blow up like a Macy's Thanksgiving balloon. I would probably feel great the whole time while I packed on the weight, just totally wouldn't work for me.

There are primitive cultures that eat a lot of carbs, I think sometimes out of necessity, i.e. there is nothing else around. These cultures often have lots of dental problems and tooth decay, which is often a proxy for other inflammatory health problems. Just because the culture is ancient doesn't mean it's particularly healthy. Then, there are cultures that eat a lot of tropical fruit, which are high in carbs and sugars, and they are healthy. So I don't think the carbs alone are the only relevant factor.

0
1c0aedabf44b6ac40db8cf880b762c7a

on April 12, 2014
at 04:20 PM

I eat high carb paleo. I have a starch at every meal and often a piece of fruit as well. I feel good. Better than low carb.

0
70b4000e1eeb635306d4e72d67d59657

on April 11, 2014
at 11:30 PM

Less carbs the better – Too many carbohydrates are a big weight gainer, once in your system carbs turn into a chemical called glycogen which is then used by the body as energy for your brain functioning and muscles. Unfortunately most body types can only store a small amount of glycogen and the rest is turned into adipose stored fat for later usage, which is exactly what we don't want as this goes right to the abdominal area. There are 2 types of carbohydrates, the bad complex carbs and the good refined carbs, your body needs a small amount of complex carbohydrates in order to function well during the day. The fewer carbohydrates in your body the better, when your body has no carbs to turn into glycogen it will go directly to your stored fat for energy

0
70b4000e1eeb635306d4e72d67d59657

on April 11, 2014
at 11:30 PM

Less carbs the better – Too many carbohydrates are a big weight gainer, once in your system carbs turn into a chemical called glycogen which is then used by the body as energy for your brain functioning and muscles. Unfortunately most body types can only store a small amount of glycogen and the rest is turned into adipose stored fat for later usage, which is exactly what we don't want as this goes right to the abdominal area. There are 2 types of carbohydrates, the bad complex carbs and the good refined carbs, your body needs a small amount of complex carbohydrates in order to function well during the day. The fewer carbohydrates in your body the better, when your body has no carbs to turn into glycogen it will go directly to your stored fat for energy.

7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on April 12, 2014
at 12:07 AM

"

There are 2 types of carbohydrates, the bad complex carbs and the good refined carbs,

"

Could you elaborate on this? Usually people state the opposite as being true.

0
Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on April 11, 2014
at 07:50 PM

Looking at some random cronometer screenshots I have from 6mo back, it looks like I was doing 380g carbs and 140g protein, and feeling pretty good about it. It's tricky sometimes finding a balance when there seems to be such a huge range of combinations that work. I have a greater appreciation for the rise and dip in blood sugar now, but, I went most of my life without noticing the effect. Lately, I've got carbs and protein each generally under 100g, and that feels great too (once adapted.) I like the idea of a seasonal variation between a higher to lower carb intake, but, 380g is still probably a bit much, even on a hot summer day.

At a high carb intake, I found that I tended to spend more time preparing / eating meals and snacks. At 4 meals a day, I could almost spend a whole day going to multiple grocery stores, cooking, and eating. Vs the high fat diet, I can throw down a meal or two, check that off my list, and I'm good to go.

Micronutrient wise, it seems to work either way. I bet higher carb, but lower GI carb would offer a nice compromise. Sweet potatoes > white potatoes. (Although, I love me some white potatoes.)

This paper suggests a pretty middle of the road ratio.

0
Be157308a0438e382b88d9db4c12ab30

on March 21, 2014
at 05:26 PM

Just my 2 cents, since we are talking about longevity.

Hormones and growth factors that stimulate phosphoinositide-3 kinase (PI3K) are usually associated with decreased longevity and increased carcinogenicity. The hormones and growth factors most often associated with said activation are typically insulin and insulin-like growth factors (such as IGF-1). Once the receptors for insulin and other growth factors become activated by binding to their respective peptide, they activate PI3K. Such activation promotes a cascade of other phosphorylation reactions which essentially lead the cell to increased DNA synthesis, protein synthesis, fatty acid synthesis, and cellular replication, while simultaneously inhibiting autophagy, apoptosis (healthy cell death), and fatty acid oxidation. So in short, things that increase IGF-1 (mostly protein) and things that increase insulin (glucose, protein) generally stimulate the PI3K signaling pathway (in addition to other pathways detrimental to longevity), so limiting these would be an effective approach to increasing healthy lifespan, especially in the absence of exercise (which often activates AMPK and therefore antagonizes some of the harmful effects of high insulin and IGF-1 levels).

Ultimately, however, what you eat is no one's business but your own, so you may do as you wish (and eat more carbs, since they seem to have a modest placebo effect on you). However, there is ample evidence, in the field of cell signalling biochemistry, to indicate that limiting glucose and amino acid availability to cells could potentially lead to favorable conditions with regards to metabolic health and longevity.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 06:11 PM

Insightful, rational, and well-reasoned as usual good sir. You're the number one paleohacker making me think about experimenting with ketosis. However, referring to my reaction as a placebo is an ill-founded jab. Slower gastric emptying due to high fat intake certainly isn't a placebo. Neither is the struggle I have with overly fibrous veggies or maintaining healthy gut flora.

I like the stable, clean energy and focus I get on HFLC but my body is sending signals can't ignore. Few if any of these signals result from placebo effects or psychosomatics.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 06:14 PM

I'm hoping a period of increased carb/fat intake ratio will help balance out my gut flora, stabilize my dwindling appetite, and give my body a break from one extreme. Since I have a tough time with roughage in my diet, an increased carb allowance will also help me meet my micronutrient goals.

0
4775e2485bd498f20db64ab6fc77975f

(0)

on March 21, 2014
at 01:35 PM

Go ahead and try it!

I have no idea why people keep saying your micronutrients will go down on a high carb diet. A higher carb diet, especially if composed of roots/tubers, fruit, and occasional legumes, is much more micronutrient rich than a high fat diet composed of oils and rendered fats. I highly doubt a lot of people, especially those consuming upwards of 60% fat diets, are getting all their fats from egg yolks, nuts and meats without consuming a ton of protein.

The only conceivable problem with a high carb paleo diet is the limited food choices. Eating 300 daily carbs of sweet potato and banana gets annoying (I did that for a while). Unless you have access to various tubers such as mountain yam, taro, yucca, and various tropical fruits, you may be tempted to adding back oats and beans, beans being the lesser of the two evils. Be mindful of any negative symptoms when introducing these foods.

You could have a very healthy diet composed of tubers, egg yolks, fatty/gelatinous meat, organs, vegetables, fruit, and small amounts of nuts and legumes if tolerated, without consuming a high percentage of your diet from fat. The point here is to eat a whole foods diet, and not to consume oil to reach a certain caloric fat percentage.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on March 21, 2014
at 02:07 PM

I agree with your ideas but I am going to tweak them a bit. Even here up North, with one foot of iced snow still on the ground, when it comes to local starch you can choose between rutabagas, turnips, beets (chioggia and traditional), carrots, parsnips, potato, daikon, radish, celery and parsley root, salsify (black and white) and squash. Potato and squash have a whole set of varieties, and radish can contribute with some of the newer varieties (watermelon, black and hakurei) being large and mild roots. You can kraut most of these things. Cabbage has some starch. It is a lot of variety.

4775e2485bd498f20db64ab6fc77975f

(0)

on March 21, 2014
at 02:51 PM

When it comes to beans I also digest them way better than nuts, grains, and nightshades but they will still give me a bit of gut inflamation if I start consuming them in large quantities. I think they are a great addition to a paleo template in reasonable quantities.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on March 21, 2014
at 02:11 PM

When it comes to beans, I for one digest, at least the lighter varieties, perfectly. I have trouble with dairy, gluten, most nuts, most nightshades, strawberries, egg whites, but the beans go down fine. It helps that I eat them mostly as natto (soybeans, lentils, and adzuki), but even chickpeas, if they have been soaked two days, and well cooked, they are great.

0
8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 21, 2014
at 04:43 AM

If your active and not fat, it might be okay, so long as you get enough fat and protein. Some HG groups do well on high carb, but they are all very active. The other issue would be micros. Your micro's may go down on a high carb diet.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 03:49 PM

Why would you expect my micros to go down? I won't be consuming lots of refined carbs and rice, I'll be consuming paleo friendly carbs and safe starches in moderation...

0
3ce6a0d24be025e2f2af534545bdd1d7

(26217)

on March 21, 2014
at 01:27 AM

I say N=1 -- do it, see how you react.

The concern I would have is not macros but micros. you should be good at ~50%, but you need to focus on a few energy dense carbs (like sweet potatoes and coconut water). And on nutrient dense fats (beef, shellfish, etc). If you consume white rice as a large part of your carbs it will be hard to hit your micros.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 03:40 PM

Insightful. Fear not, I only eat rice in moderation a couple times a week. Most of my carbs will be coming from potatoes/sweet potatoes and fruits, along with whatever trickles in from the rest of my food.

0
C4deaa6bb01626b4569e8992890381ab

on March 21, 2014
at 12:51 AM

My personal non-medical opinion is... It all depends on the individual, the overall caloric intake & the type of carbs. I'm sure you are well versed in the good/not so good carb game, you obviously do well on them, i do myself (i just love meat fish & eggs a lot though haha) i'm not opposed to eating white potatoes & white rice though. An overweight, insulin resistant individual isn't going to do well on 300-350g of carbs (unless on a major calorie deficit maybe) but you will. High fat isn't serving you too well, If you look & feel good eating higher carb then then i would personally just carry on as you are.

0
3491e51730101b18724dc57c86601173

(8395)

on March 20, 2014
at 10:26 PM

If you try it, let us know how you do, I'm interested.

What improvements do you expect?

What concerns do you have?

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 20, 2014
at 11:06 PM

Well the main improvement I'm hoping for is a happier gut. It'd be nice if it gives me more energy and focus but I'm really doubting that.

The other thing is that my appetite is weak and carbs seem to help. I know it's a problem some people would love to have but trust me it sucks.

Lastly I find it's easier to balance out all my micronutrients when I can snack on things like potatoes, bananas, and coconut water without a second thought.

Oh, and I'm a light snacker by nature and I can barely get 3 meals down on HFLC, so I'd like to snack inbetween without feeling bloated.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 03:47 PM

As for concernts: I'm worried that my mental acuity and energetic stability will suffer. One great benefit of reducing my carb intake on Paleo is that my ADHD has all but ceased to exist. Here I thought it was somethign wrong with me all my life, but it was just my diet. Hopefully in keeping with a paleo inspired diet, increasing carbs won't lead me back to swings of focus/silly hyperactivity/lethargy.

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 20, 2014
at 09:20 PM

Here are some thoughts

-I had the insulin resistance issue. It was when I was obese and overeating, especially carbs. I restricted the carbs severely - not so much changing macro ratio as lowering the sheer volume of starchy sugary carbs. Once I lost weight my insulin sensitivity returned (normal blood sugar, low triglycerides, low A1C) and I raised the carb volume back up. I still eat some junk but not like I used to.

-I'm not an athlete either, but I am active to the extent of walking 10 miles a day regularly. This level of activity needs 700 calories a day of something to support it. Not optimal nutrients, just calories. I get the nutrients from the base diet. In a sense I walk so that I can snack. If I quit walking I'd have to stop the snacking or I'd blimp back up.

-The real ancestral diet was variable with the seasons. Meat eating in the spring when animals were easiest to catch, carb eating in the fall and summer when plants were fruiting. The ancestral diet did not run on fixed ratios. We have evolved as omnivores and macro ratios naturally have very wide ranges. The optimal diet is the flexible diet.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 21, 2014
at 03:44 PM

I have to wonder if my interest in upping carbs is partially (subconsciously) inspired by the coming of summer...

0
56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on March 20, 2014
at 09:11 PM

How well do you know those ratios? Because if you eat, say, a lot of cold potato salad, you are getting another 200 kcal in fats, and web software will not count that. So at least some starch is fat in the end.

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(10611)

on March 20, 2014
at 11:16 PM

There are a lot of benefits to butyrate generation in the bowel, and the butyrate can feed the intestine itself. But it's pretty far down the line on being able to enter the bloodstream and feed the rest of the body to any appreciable degree. Therapeutic yes. Major source of fatty acid for metabolism no.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/butyric-acid-ancient-controller-of.html?m=1

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 20, 2014
at 09:39 PM

The paleo diet way to jack carbs up independently of fat is yams and fruit. I would include regular potatoes too since paleos ate solanums.

0
Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on March 20, 2014
at 09:09 PM

Go for it, I haven't seen anything too convincing showing moderately high carb is any worse than any other macronutrient ratio..

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(10611)

on March 20, 2014
at 09:30 PM

The big problem with carbs is satiation. Carbs help most when your body needs extra calories pronto. Diabetics carry glucose tabs for this reason, for treating hypoglycemia episodes.

0
Af679502f1e31c0c59c79bd08f324b35

on March 20, 2014
at 08:16 PM

Absolutely nothing wrong with those macros. Speaking of insulin issues on HF/LC my FBG levels were creep up which showed me I was becoming insulin resistant. Go check out MDA forum full of people experimenting with macros. The HF/LC ketosis preferred people seem to be here where more sensible individuals are there. Lots of great threads on MDA pertaining to macros

8b9c2dcd3dfc929a0428d3d6dac4918e

(70)

on March 21, 2014
at 04:47 AM

Very low carb does induce physiological insulin resistances (not pathalogical), to preserve glucose for the brain (because muscles run easily on ketones, and ketones produce muscle insulin resistance). This could be slightly negative I suppose, but then post meal glucose would be less, so it may also balance out. I don't think i'd be too concerned with that myself, but I eat moderate carb because I function better on 100-150.

Medium avatar

(624)

on March 20, 2014
at 08:34 PM

Thank you! I'll go check out that forum. I had to preface my question with an acknowledgement of the opinions I knew I'd get from the HF/LC preachers around here. No offense to them... I even kind a like @TheGastronomer :-)

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