3

votes

Nikoley vs. Durianrider is tonight: Who wins?

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created April 14, 2011 at 8:21 PM

So the big debate is upcoming very shortly. How do you think it will go?

My prediction is that the discussion will very quickly sink to the level of personal anecdotes and attacks, with each side getting out what he feels proves that he won. In other words, I'm predicting a big waste of time (much like this thread?).

It seems fairly apparent to me that Nikoley is a very intelligent, mature person and let's just say that I don't rate Durianrider as highly. He seems immature and reckless with his words.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, look here.

Oh, and if there's another thread on here about this, don't go getting all smarmy and lecture me about it. Just understand that I'm slow and meant well.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 16, 2011
at 01:30 AM

Durianrider: "everyone dies, not everyone really lives" and I quote.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 16, 2011
at 12:17 AM

I see. (Why 15 characters? WTF?)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 15, 2011
at 10:31 PM

I'm not sure Melissa's critique is a joke. Durianrider making nutritional claims based on absolutely nothing is a joke. The fact that he relies on namedropping to prove his athletic prowess is a joke. Throwing out failed insults is a failed joke. But Melissa's critique probably isn't a joke.

127116e41acceee9f2f000076f8b788d

(477)

on April 15, 2011
at 10:19 PM

oh yeah, and Denise Minger is a figment of his imagination...

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 09:56 PM

you suspended my account for a comment that wasn't offensive to anyone

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 09:54 PM

you suspended my account for a pretty a comment that was in no way offensive, nice

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:45 PM

His girlfriend is way hotter than he is...

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:44 PM

WTF I didn't insult his girlfriend, I insulted him.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:44 PM

If you've ever a. been a guy b. dated women, you'll figure out pretty quickly that unemployed men are a hard sell. Of course no one wants to work, but few women want to raise a family with someone who can't afford to!

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 09:43 PM

jees, those are pretty scathing low insults against his girlfriend, I think you are in love with him really... btw who won?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:43 PM

um, just saying that he's relatively low-status in our society (he also has said he's on welfare) and yet he has a desirable girlfriend, which is really quite impressive. It doesn't matter how valuable a college education is in reality, on our society it is considered valuable. Simple evpsych. Statist indoctrination is bad (I didn't sign up for that class), but stats and biochem are absolutely important to understanding scientific research.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 15, 2011
at 09:40 PM

No edit feature for the comments even though there's one for the answers/OP? That seems pretty arbitrary. Am I missing something? Anyway, I meant: Last I checked, most people don't REALLY wanna be EMPLOYED. (Unless they need to.)

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 15, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Of course I could respond to the other criticism too. Unemployed? Is that a bad thing? Last I checked, most people don't REALLY wanna be unemployed. Is he poor and struggling to live? If so, I need more info. But if he's living the life he wants, who cares if he has a job? I wouldn't want one if I didn't need one. And skinny? He is a super long distance runner/cyclist, right? Wouldn't being skinny be good for that?? There's no intrinsic value in being fat or thin; it's whether you're furthering your goals that counts. It seems like it's working for him...

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 15, 2011
at 09:26 PM

He's a guy who lives a certain way and tries to convince other people to join him. What the hell does your claim that he didn't go to college (I assume you didn't make it up, but I dunno) have to do with anything? Do you NEED to sit through 4+ years of statist indoctrination to have an opinion about lifestyle? Last I checked, most college graduates are really stupid. Just as stupid as the average non-graduate. Perhaps the average graduate can say bigger words more often, but that just makes it easier for them to delude themselves. Your "critique" is a joke. Leave him alone.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:09 PM

Well that's what men have told me. I'd love to see what they think of her minus the hair dye and you know what implants.

0242b468fe1c97997749db416c92e7ed

(4528)

on April 15, 2011
at 08:42 PM

She's a 9? Really? To each his own!

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on April 15, 2011
at 07:42 PM

Sorry that should have had a :) at the end, it was only meant half seriously. Tone of voice is sometimes hard to get across online.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on April 15, 2011
at 07:41 PM

Sorry that should have had a :) at the end, it was only meant half seriously.

Medium avatar

(5639)

on April 15, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Haha whoa...scathing!

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:08 PM

Hmmm, Stephen, your humility might have carried you too far in your answer to Damaged Justice. I think there could indeed be some benefit in a live debate between you and Durianrider; just read your next comment, the response to Daniel. You're kind of proving my point ... (Kind of: I know that the harm of giving Durianrider a platform might outweigh any benefits). Anyhow, cheers, good answer.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on April 15, 2011
at 05:04 PM

That should have had a :) at the end, it was only meant half seriously. Just as someone who remains the same weight and pretty slim whatever or however much or little I eat or exercise the whole assumption that this is automatically a problem is a little tiresome and judgemental.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 15, 2011
at 04:24 PM

I am a Facebook friend to Denise Minger. What an idiot this guy Duriander must be! If Denise Minger doesn't exist, then "The China Study" got completely refuted by a ghost.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 03:41 PM

I've only met Robb Wolf (and his wife) out of that list, but they were very lean and definitely not fat! Art De Vany is also lean and he out of all the "gurus" probably dresses the best to show that off. Gary Taubes and Loren Cordain both wear unattractive clothing that doesn't fit so it's hard to tell. I was going to write a blog post about it, but then I felt it was too gossipy.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on April 15, 2011
at 03:10 PM

I finished!! ;)

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 15, 2011
at 03:08 PM

pleasantly suprised - not much name calling - ended as quite a civilized debate!

91c2e2a35e578e2e79ce7d631b753879

(2081)

on April 15, 2011
at 03:08 PM

No, no - Richard Nikoley and Sally Fallon are fat; Mark Sisson just hates to exercise (apparently Harley misunderstands what Mark means by "play").

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:54 PM

What place did you get in?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:30 PM

@Daniel: because the entire fruitarian community would get to hear EVOLUTION AND SCIENCE... instead there were few STRONG points made. Ive converted 2 vegetarians now, and let me tell you its an AWESOME feeling to know ive SAVED their health. Richard could have made a greater impact on saving lives, something S&E would have accomplished IMO. Im not saying he didnt spank Harley, but my daughter could have spanked Harley... He was too Politically Correct to drive the point home, very unlike his Blog's attitude.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:27 PM

@damaged justice... as Melissa pointed out, why would I give him a platform? His ideas have no basis... I would welcome debates between potentially healthy options. WAPF vs Paleo. Archevore vs Mediterranean. even a debate between low fruit/nut Paleo vs high fruit/nut paleo.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:23 PM

And yes haha, saying that a child doesn't pounce on a small animal at a petting zoo and tear out its jugular as a justification for us to eat nothing but fruit, is beyond ridiculous, yet oh so hilarious.

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:22 PM

My husband is 6'2" and 155/165 most of the time. He is definitely "skinny fat" or skinny "something". There is no muscle there at all.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:19 PM

I think Richard's strategy was perfect. What would be the point of directly refuting Harley's points back in his face? It would have changed nothing. What Nikoley did was provide a concise, rational justification for a diverse omnivorous diet, to dispel the notion that paleo must be "an extreme diet", and hopefully grab the attention of any sane people perhaps listening that were considering fruitarianism. I think Richard did an excellent job, maintaining that even temper throughout while Harley desperately thrashed for his words.

91c2e2a35e578e2e79ce7d631b753879

(2081)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:16 PM

That and him claiming Denise Minger is probably not a real person because there are few images of her on the internet and she has no YouTube station were the highlights of the whole thing for me - I was dying laughing. What a maroon!

9cfa1ab909f6f89544be665d4ef6e3ea

on April 15, 2011
at 01:00 PM

I look forward to your correct debate of Durianrider.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 11:55 AM

I'll pick on you. If you look anorexic and claim to be ultimately healthy... You're gonna get heat.

24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on April 15, 2011
at 11:20 AM

Yeah he couldn't even go his first minute without insulting someone, and the theme continued for the evening! He really showed his ass.

64242a1130eb51f4852f78beed38b3d5

(1343)

on April 15, 2011
at 03:07 AM

I love how Nikoley always opens with hit counts. It's like a life bar. "I'm at 9000!"

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:33 AM

Truth be told, I ran it slow. But I ran it. Anyone can run for 2 or 3 hours. It takes *real* endurance to run for almost 6 hours. ;)

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:32 AM

Me 'n' Lance are buds! ;P

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:29 AM

You sure you didn't run it with lance Armstrong?

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:29 AM

Durian is arguing against SAD and making points that aren't paleo issues

64242a1130eb51f4852f78beed38b3d5

(1343)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:22 AM

I'm listening and it's pretty lame. Even worse that these guys are "leaders" of anything. It's really just a repressed man love sort of thing going on.

3b803506ca7d7b5796bc16ee5b9f11d3

(198)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:21 AM

I think they mostly talked past one another. I did like Richard's closing just now, very calm, cogent, to the point.

7807ddb36f3fa43477d7d3cf7a561980

on April 15, 2011
at 01:57 AM

I wasn't picking on anyone either, friends, I was just stating that he is chock full of bananas. Taking this seriously is too much to ask for, anyways.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:53 AM

Yeah Richard is doing a great job- informative, clear and concise. Harley is talking in circles and making many irrelevant arguments.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on April 15, 2011
at 01:49 AM

@Live Play: Harley is spouting a lot of nonsense as usual. Richard is doing quite well right now.

94a6e0791face177b3385722cae509f4

(0)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:48 AM

OK. I quit. Cannot listen to this anymore. They both lose. HORRIBLE.

94a6e0791face177b3385722cae509f4

(0)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:41 AM

Richard isn't doing so hot either. [email protected]

94a6e0791face177b3385722cae509f4

(0)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:38 AM

There go the performance enhancement drugs allegations! This pretty much sucks badly overall, though. Meh.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:24 AM

Nikoley's angry polemics making fun of the surgeon general's weight made me wonder why I used to read his blog. He and durianrider make for a good debate. Lots of name calling and anger, I'm sure.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:40 PM

Matthew - I'm sorry if you felt I was picking on anyone - I was merely giving my opinion on durianrider (he picks on "fatso's" all the time)

05a1cb4b0c28558c2be2b7ac81b9467a

(106)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:32 PM

Yea, no offense, but you look nothing like a hunter/gatherer. 6 feet 145 pounds was probably very common in hunter/gatherer societies.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:31 PM

I don't see where Nikoley gets so much attention from either

E9214b7dfa3352f4e559555f87311287

(166)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:03 PM

I think I'm going to start eating 80/10/10

24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:49 PM

I think so too (I hope so anyway)- I was listening to the video on the home page for the debate; Richard was way more articulate! Harley just sounded kinda a mess.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:41 PM

Stop picking on skinny people.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:00 PM

An excellent approach to the event would be to "tune in, turn on, and drop out."

64242a1130eb51f4852f78beed38b3d5

(1343)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:10 PM

I don't see how Nikoley calling an entire culture dogs**t makes him mature. I wonder why so many follow him as much as this Durian guy.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 09:05 PM

Thanks for the tip. I'd not heard of D. I'll be tuning in.

7807ddb36f3fa43477d7d3cf7a561980

on April 14, 2011
at 09:02 PM

Oh, I got it; he has no organs, he is held up by BANANAS. That's why he eats 30 a day, I guess.

7807ddb36f3fa43477d7d3cf7a561980

on April 14, 2011
at 09:01 PM

how is it possible to weigh 145 at 6 ft without being anorexic? does he have no muscles in his body whatsoever? or no bones?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:59 PM

Actually, it would be ok by me if it turned into a bunch of ad hominem insults. I wouldn't mind hearing Duriander called a "scrawny, mango-eating vegan skeleton".

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:59 PM

ya 6 ft 145 is super unhealthy and super un-sexy (at least to my paleo/primal eyes) - at least he's got an accent ;)

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:36 PM

It amuses me that this is taking place at all. It's unlikely that any of the veg*ns who tune in are going to be swayed by facts and logic.

5edbf85deaf83e13b176df023abb154d

(1293)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:28 PM

He'll call him fat right off the bat. Then he'll accuse Mark Sisson of HGH abuse and Art DeVany of steroid usage. This "debate" is going to go nowhere.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 14, 2011
at 08:22 PM

Also, how many people wanna bet that Durianrider calls Richard "fat" or something?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 14, 2011
at 08:22 PM

I can't watch it. Durianrider has no education and no credibility. I don't think he should be given a forum for his trash. It just makes me angry that so many people listen to him.

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15 Answers

7
4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

on April 15, 2011
at 12:58 PM

Harleys Points

  • B12? Many people are B12 deficient, so vegan isnt the cause because others are B12 deficient too!!! ONE Primal guy sells supplements, so obviously Primal people have issues with B12 too!!!

  • Would a kid jump on cute fuzzy animal X and bite into its neck at the petting zoo?

  • I train constantly, with top athletes. Lance Armstrong etc.

  • My brain is so addled from lack of EPA/DHA that I can't make any other points and have to keep repeating these.

What Nikoley SHOULD have replied.

  • SCIENCE

  • EVOLUTION

  • Chronic Cardio

  • SCIENCE & EVOLUTION.

except he barely mentioned evolution... and barely mentioned the science, and glossed over that NO one eating paleo should need B12, regardless of one man's monetization. That those non-vegan B12 deficient people are GRAIN eaters, not MEAT eaters.

He didnt bring up that Marathoners have more atherosclerosis due to their chronic cardio, regardless of diet. Regardless of training with Lance Armstrong.

That No one "bites animals necks", we hunt or kill humanely and Prepare our food. Because we're human, not animals.

He didnt attack the fact that harley kept harping on the drawbacks of grain eaters.... not meat eaters.

That Food is not the sole cause of weight gain. That stress, sleep, toxins, Hormones post menopause(sally fallon) etc are all causes... where being drastically underweight is not remotely healthy, its a sign of Starvation.

Slathering chicken breast on someones back is just as gross as slathering mango. Neither constitutes an intelligent method for determining optimum diet.

Where Nikoley SHOULD have Attacked.

  • Fructose in excess of the livers capability to handle causes damage, anyone not "training with Lance Armstrong" will not be depleting liver glycogen fast enough to handle it... Fatty Liver.

  • WAPF, Dental. So many of these Fruitarians have AWFUL Teeth. Even on the 30BAD site, they have people asking about their teeth, tho they get removed often. Richard did bring up that they dont allow naysayers.

  • Why do our digestive systems more resemble a carnivore in design than a herbivore if were supposed to be herbivores?

  • Excessive Acidic intake from excessive fruit intake, exceeding guts ability to handle as well as Feeding all the gut bacteria. Im pretty sure harley is clueless to gut bacteria.

  • LIBIDO. Most Fruitarians complain about it going GOODBYE. Yet Harleys group defends that as a good thing... are you kidding me? Paleo has the opposite effect. Want to win over fruitarians to healthy eating...?

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:23 PM

And yes haha, saying that a child doesn't pounce on a small animal at a petting zoo and tear out its jugular as a justification for us to eat nothing but fruit, is beyond ridiculous, yet oh so hilarious.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:27 PM

@damaged justice... as Melissa pointed out, why would I give him a platform? His ideas have no basis... I would welcome debates between potentially healthy options. WAPF vs Paleo. Archevore vs Mediterranean. even a debate between low fruit/nut Paleo vs high fruit/nut paleo.

9cfa1ab909f6f89544be665d4ef6e3ea

on April 15, 2011
at 01:00 PM

I look forward to your correct debate of Durianrider.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:30 PM

@Daniel: because the entire fruitarian community would get to hear EVOLUTION AND SCIENCE... instead there were few STRONG points made. Ive converted 2 vegetarians now, and let me tell you its an AWESOME feeling to know ive SAVED their health. Richard could have made a greater impact on saving lives, something S&E would have accomplished IMO. Im not saying he didnt spank Harley, but my daughter could have spanked Harley... He was too Politically Correct to drive the point home, very unlike his Blog's attitude.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:19 PM

I think Richard's strategy was perfect. What would be the point of directly refuting Harley's points back in his face? It would have changed nothing. What Nikoley did was provide a concise, rational justification for a diverse omnivorous diet, to dispel the notion that paleo must be "an extreme diet", and hopefully grab the attention of any sane people perhaps listening that were considering fruitarianism. I think Richard did an excellent job, maintaining that even temper throughout while Harley desperately thrashed for his words.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on April 15, 2011
at 06:08 PM

Hmmm, Stephen, your humility might have carried you too far in your answer to Damaged Justice. I think there could indeed be some benefit in a live debate between you and Durianrider; just read your next comment, the response to Daniel. You're kind of proving my point ... (Kind of: I know that the harm of giving Durianrider a platform might outweigh any benefits). Anyhow, cheers, good answer.

5
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 07:12 PM

Actually guys, Durianrider is a freakin genius. He's clearly what we might refer to as "beta male." He is

  • skinny
  • has a rather unattractive face
  • unemployed
  • no college degree and not much education in general (despite no education in stats, anatomy, biochem, biology, or chemistry, he is a "health guru" that people listen to and PAY)

Most men like this end up living in a trailer with their mom and working at Sonic. Durianrider has built a substantial online following with some reasonably attractive females and has picked the most attractive one as his mate. What else explains someone who is a "4/10" for attractiveness dating a 9? Guys like him normally don't get girls like that. Luckily evolution has not been contaminated since he's been snipped.

Let's not give him any attention. He's not educated or logical enough to have anything worth listening to. He's merely an interesting specimen.

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 15, 2011
at 09:40 PM

No edit feature for the comments even though there's one for the answers/OP? That seems pretty arbitrary. Am I missing something? Anyway, I meant: Last I checked, most people don't REALLY wanna be EMPLOYED. (Unless they need to.)

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 09:43 PM

jees, those are pretty scathing low insults against his girlfriend, I think you are in love with him really... btw who won?

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 16, 2011
at 12:17 AM

I see. (Why 15 characters? WTF?)

Medium avatar

(5639)

on April 15, 2011
at 07:33 PM

Haha whoa...scathing!

0242b468fe1c97997749db416c92e7ed

(4528)

on April 15, 2011
at 08:42 PM

She's a 9? Really? To each his own!

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 15, 2011
at 09:39 PM

Of course I could respond to the other criticism too. Unemployed? Is that a bad thing? Last I checked, most people don't REALLY wanna be unemployed. Is he poor and struggling to live? If so, I need more info. But if he's living the life he wants, who cares if he has a job? I wouldn't want one if I didn't need one. And skinny? He is a super long distance runner/cyclist, right? Wouldn't being skinny be good for that?? There's no intrinsic value in being fat or thin; it's whether you're furthering your goals that counts. It seems like it's working for him...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on April 15, 2011
at 10:31 PM

I'm not sure Melissa's critique is a joke. Durianrider making nutritional claims based on absolutely nothing is a joke. The fact that he relies on namedropping to prove his athletic prowess is a joke. Throwing out failed insults is a failed joke. But Melissa's critique probably isn't a joke.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:43 PM

um, just saying that he's relatively low-status in our society (he also has said he's on welfare) and yet he has a desirable girlfriend, which is really quite impressive. It doesn't matter how valuable a college education is in reality, on our society it is considered valuable. Simple evpsych. Statist indoctrination is bad (I didn't sign up for that class), but stats and biochem are absolutely important to understanding scientific research.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 09:56 PM

you suspended my account for a comment that wasn't offensive to anyone

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:09 PM

Well that's what men have told me. I'd love to see what they think of her minus the hair dye and you know what implants.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:45 PM

His girlfriend is way hotter than he is...

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:44 PM

If you've ever a. been a guy b. dated women, you'll figure out pretty quickly that unemployed men are a hard sell. Of course no one wants to work, but few women want to raise a family with someone who can't afford to!

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 09:44 PM

WTF I didn't insult his girlfriend, I insulted him.

9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 15, 2011
at 09:54 PM

you suspended my account for a pretty a comment that was in no way offensive, nice

6f2c00fcbf48c69f0ea212239b3e1178

on April 15, 2011
at 09:26 PM

He's a guy who lives a certain way and tries to convince other people to join him. What the hell does your claim that he didn't go to college (I assume you didn't make it up, but I dunno) have to do with anything? Do you NEED to sit through 4+ years of statist indoctrination to have an opinion about lifestyle? Last I checked, most college graduates are really stupid. Just as stupid as the average non-graduate. Perhaps the average graduate can say bigger words more often, but that just makes it easier for them to delude themselves. Your "critique" is a joke. Leave him alone.

4
Medium avatar

on April 15, 2011
at 02:27 AM

A triumph for anecdotal evidence, name-dropping, personal attacks and sloganeering. Why did I put myself through this?

64242a1130eb51f4852f78beed38b3d5

(1343)

on April 15, 2011
at 03:07 AM

I love how Nikoley always opens with hit counts. It's like a life bar. "I'm at 9000!"

3
A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:23 AM

My only comment on this debate: I trained for the 25th Los Angeles Marathon last year while in ketosis. During the race, I was fueled by only almonds.

I'm done.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:29 AM

You sure you didn't run it with lance Armstrong?

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on April 15, 2011
at 03:10 PM

I finished!! ;)

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:33 AM

Truth be told, I ran it slow. But I ran it. Anyone can run for 2 or 3 hours. It takes *real* endurance to run for almost 6 hours. ;)

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:32 AM

Me 'n' Lance are buds! ;P

E5c7f14800c5992831f5c70fa746dc5c

(12857)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:54 PM

What place did you get in?

2
127116e41acceee9f2f000076f8b788d

(477)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:59 PM

I find it funny that durianrider???s defense to everything is to say Paleos are fat. No response to the issues???

Q: What about health issues related to veganism?

A: Robb Wolf is fat.

Q: Any comment on the studies that show reduced brain activity on a veggie based diet?

A: Gary Taubes is fat.

Q: Why do you block comments and posts on your sites from struggling vegans?

A: Mark Sisson is fat.

Q: What is your comment on the assertion that the vegan diet is not natural, and very young (fad)?

A: Loren Cordain is fat.

typical religious fundamentalist???.

91c2e2a35e578e2e79ce7d631b753879

(2081)

on April 15, 2011
at 03:08 PM

No, no - Richard Nikoley and Sally Fallon are fat; Mark Sisson just hates to exercise (apparently Harley misunderstands what Mark means by "play").

127116e41acceee9f2f000076f8b788d

(477)

on April 15, 2011
at 10:19 PM

oh yeah, and Denise Minger is a figment of his imagination...

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on April 15, 2011
at 03:41 PM

I've only met Robb Wolf (and his wife) out of that list, but they were very lean and definitely not fat! Art De Vany is also lean and he out of all the "gurus" probably dresses the best to show that off. Gary Taubes and Loren Cordain both wear unattractive clothing that doesn't fit so it's hard to tell. I was going to write a blog post about it, but then I felt it was too gossipy.

2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:55 PM

On the website it has Duriander at 6 foot 145 pounds. If the wind blows this guy could be gone. Unfortunately I will be busy at 6PM PST tonight, so let me know if it's good and I will buy the podcast.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on April 15, 2011
at 05:04 PM

That should have had a :) at the end, it was only meant half seriously. Just as someone who remains the same weight and pretty slim whatever or however much or little I eat or exercise the whole assumption that this is automatically a problem is a little tiresome and judgemental.

7807ddb36f3fa43477d7d3cf7a561980

on April 15, 2011
at 01:57 AM

I wasn't picking on anyone either, friends, I was just stating that he is chock full of bananas. Taking this seriously is too much to ask for, anyways.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on April 15, 2011
at 07:42 PM

Sorry that should have had a :) at the end, it was only meant half seriously. Tone of voice is sometimes hard to get across online.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:41 PM

Stop picking on skinny people.

05a1cb4b0c28558c2be2b7ac81b9467a

(106)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:32 PM

Yea, no offense, but you look nothing like a hunter/gatherer. 6 feet 145 pounds was probably very common in hunter/gatherer societies.

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:59 PM

ya 6 ft 145 is super unhealthy and super un-sexy (at least to my paleo/primal eyes) - at least he's got an accent ;)

7807ddb36f3fa43477d7d3cf7a561980

on April 14, 2011
at 09:02 PM

Oh, I got it; he has no organs, he is held up by BANANAS. That's why he eats 30 a day, I guess.

7807ddb36f3fa43477d7d3cf7a561980

on April 14, 2011
at 09:01 PM

how is it possible to weigh 145 at 6 ft without being anorexic? does he have no muscles in his body whatsoever? or no bones?

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 14, 2011
at 11:40 PM

Matthew - I'm sorry if you felt I was picking on anyone - I was merely giving my opinion on durianrider (he picks on "fatso's" all the time)

7e746be2f0e550a8cd7df881322ae705

(18701)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:22 PM

My husband is 6'2" and 155/165 most of the time. He is definitely "skinny fat" or skinny "something". There is no muscle there at all.

0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19235)

on April 15, 2011
at 07:41 PM

Sorry that should have had a :) at the end, it was only meant half seriously.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 11:55 AM

I'll pick on you. If you look anorexic and claim to be ultimately healthy... You're gonna get heat.

2
Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 14, 2011
at 08:51 PM

I hope that it will be a good debate - but think it will turn out to be a bunch of name calling and spiral down from there. I mean it's being moderated by Steve Prussak of Raw Vegan Radio hmmmm...isn't a moderator supposed to be neutral?

I'm going to tune in - but will most likely tune out shortly thereafter - i don't need to hear a bunch of malarkey!

Medium avatar

(12379)

on April 15, 2011
at 03:08 PM

pleasantly suprised - not much name calling - ended as quite a civilized debate!

1
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:31 AM

Has someone recorded the event?

1
Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

on April 15, 2011
at 01:55 AM

Oh my god, he just quoted Mel Gibson. I can't listen to this anymore.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 16, 2011
at 01:30 AM

Durianrider: "everyone dies, not everyone really lives" and I quote.

1
Ca8111fb6e3bac177373a82f5d33910d

(135)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:12 AM

Durianrider referred to Sally Fallon as a mad cow early on. This is going to be interesting.

91c2e2a35e578e2e79ce7d631b753879

(2081)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:16 PM

That and him claiming Denise Minger is probably not a real person because there are few images of her on the internet and she has no YouTube station were the highlights of the whole thing for me - I was dying laughing. What a maroon!

24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on April 15, 2011
at 11:20 AM

Yeah he couldn't even go his first minute without insulting someone, and the theme continued for the evening! He really showed his ass.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 15, 2011
at 04:24 PM

I am a Facebook friend to Denise Minger. What an idiot this guy Duriander must be! If Denise Minger doesn't exist, then "The China Study" got completely refuted by a ghost.

1
04d349013cb04a6144d8ac3977a7b1d1

(190)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:14 PM

look at yawl.......the whole debate has got you all talking about it and making funnies! Isn't that what this is really about anyway? I am gonna tune in and gonna get a great laugh from it!! I also think Richard may suprise you, some time ago when he was suggesting this live debate he said he would behave and stick to the topic. I think Richard is gonna smoke him with real facts!

24fcc21452ebe39c032be6801d6bbadd

(9812)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:49 PM

I think so too (I hope so anyway)- I was listening to the video on the home page for the debate; Richard was way more articulate! Harley just sounded kinda a mess.

0
0fb8b3d6dcfb279b0f7e050d2d22510f

(4645)

on April 15, 2011
at 10:03 PM

anyone but Nikoley to represent my core Paleo values.

0
94a6e0791face177b3385722cae509f4

on April 15, 2011
at 01:31 AM

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22923)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:29 AM

Durian is arguing against SAD and making points that aren't paleo issues

94a6e0791face177b3385722cae509f4

(0)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:48 AM

OK. I quit. Cannot listen to this anymore. They both lose. HORRIBLE.

95eda9fa0cec952b482e869c34a566b6

on April 15, 2011
at 01:49 AM

@Live Play: Harley is spouting a lot of nonsense as usual. Richard is doing quite well right now.

3b803506ca7d7b5796bc16ee5b9f11d3

(198)

on April 15, 2011
at 02:21 AM

I think they mostly talked past one another. I did like Richard's closing just now, very calm, cogent, to the point.

94a6e0791face177b3385722cae509f4

(0)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:41 AM

Richard isn't doing so hot either. [email protected]

94a6e0791face177b3385722cae509f4

(0)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:38 AM

There go the performance enhancement drugs allegations! This pretty much sucks badly overall, though. Meh.

Cf5c9ba3c06cf300ae23c52778dfd317

(545)

on April 15, 2011
at 01:53 AM

Yeah Richard is doing a great job- informative, clear and concise. Harley is talking in circles and making many irrelevant arguments.

0
9e7039b63b656582f66d84c5255b436d

(1132)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:41 PM

i think the whole perspective on the situation is being mis-adressed... I don't care about this debate, it's a 50 something year old who has made himself a very popular blogger - a subsidry of Sisson, against a 31 year old guy, who has enormous energy and wants to take some of that audience... ( probably destroying his own health through fructose intake ) ... yawn... neither look that good, I would beat Harley on bike, sorry, I train with Valverde, I am 2 years older.

0
7807ddb36f3fa43477d7d3cf7a561980

on April 14, 2011
at 09:00 PM

I'm going to tune in, but I'm going to tune out as soon as it goes to hell, which it inevitably will.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on April 14, 2011
at 10:00 PM

An excellent approach to the event would be to "tune in, turn on, and drop out."

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