18

votes

Does anyone have information regarding the actual healthfulness of vegetables?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created November 09, 2011 at 3:30 AM

While reading several articles by Brian Peskin I began to wonder if vegetables are actually that great for you. Peskin claims fiber is bad for colon health and not helpful in cancer prevention. Also, the data seems to indicate most vegetables now contain too many pesticides and too few nutrients to be truly beneficial to us. While researching I also ran across a blogger named Roger M. Wilcox who wrote a ranting but thought-provoking article railing against veggies. But, the embedded knowledge in our culture is that high volumes of veggies in our diets are vital to good health and weight loss. So, what do you all know about the healthfulness of vegetables? I would love links to articles or studies. Thanks!

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:28 AM

Plus, if you're eating eggs and tubers you'll get plently of folate. No need for weedy gorilla food. :-)

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:10 AM

You're going off RDA?... That's based on SAD, you might want to consider that before harping on about the godlike properties of kale ;-)

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:14 AM

That's not true. Liver once per week does not provide nearly enough folate. One serving of beef liver contains about half of one day's worth of folate. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3469/2 You might want to do some research before contradicting me.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:31 PM

1) No it's not; your opinion is it is. There's many people who don't like green leafy Atkins style vegetables. Historically, they're not human food. Meat and potatoes makes a wonderful meal. Rare lamb chops (spiced) with buttery mash? Yeah right... that's boring. 2) There's no need for food to be interesting. I enjoy my food but it's fuel not some kinda of treat. My food tastes amazing but you shouldn't need variety for the sake of it. Do you seriously think you need spinach, kale etc to have an interesting diet?

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:31 PM

1) No it's not; your opinion is it is. There's many people who don't like green leafy Atkins style vegetables. Historically, they're not human food. Meat and potatoes makes a wonderful meal. Rare lamb chops (spiced) with buttery mash? Yeah right... that's boring. 2) There's no need for food to be interesting. I enjoy my food but it's fuel but some kinda of treat. My food tastes amazing but you shouldn't need variety for the sake of it. Do you seriously think you need spinach, kale etc to have an interesting diet?

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:25 PM

You said you have to eat it everyday; you don't become lacking in folate after 24 hours. Liver once a week is perfectly adequete.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:44 PM

Ambimorph, thanks for posting about this study. It's one I have in my bookmarks for the information which you put in bold type.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 10, 2011
at 02:19 PM

You can't eat liver every day. Well, you could but that would be unwise.

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:49 AM

What a boring diet without veggies.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 09, 2011
at 05:05 PM

Eat liver for your folate... plus about every other nutrient you need. :-)

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:43 PM

Animal products and tubers... :-)

F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:38 PM

Wow that Roger Wilcox Article is hilarious!! I laughed out loud when I read "vegetables are vile, unappetizing crunchy lumps of grotesquitude". It is hard to take him seriously when he is so distraught.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 09, 2011
at 03:42 PM

Personally, I think eating a moderate amount of vegetable is good, since it is hard to obtain folate otherwise. But, there is a lot that might be wrong with them, including: 1. Excessive folate, especially when eating fortified foods, like cereals. 2. High levels of nitrates, especially when conventional fertilizers used. 3. Pesticides. 4. FODMAPs (fermentable fibers) that can cause digestive distress in some people.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 09, 2011
at 03:41 PM

In other words, the researchers started out trying to see whether green tea extract is helpful in the absence of antioxidants from fruits and vegetables. It wasn't, but they discovered that removing the fruits and vegetables itself had a positive effect.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 09, 2011
at 03:36 PM

Also see: http://paleohacks.com/questions/20349/is-5-a-day-really-a-myth

Medium avatar

(572)

on November 09, 2011
at 01:57 PM

I've read this here and there as well and am very very curious about it.

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 09, 2011
at 06:22 AM

Thanks for sharing! I love how Kurt puts it: Eliminate: 1) Excess linoleic acid - avoid plant oils 2) Wheat and other gluten grains - white flour is the major player in the SAD 3) Limit your Fructose to amounts within our our evolutionary experience 4) Carbohydrate- rich foods tend to displace more valuable foods from animal sources. Favor food that is defenseless when dead - favor animal products. There's the 12 steps condensed to their essence.

6670b38baf0aae7f4d8ac2463ddc37c0

(3946)

on November 09, 2011
at 05:35 AM

Favorite question.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on November 09, 2011
at 03:47 AM

Interesting question!

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7 Answers

best answer

1a98a40ba8ffdc5aa28d1324d01c6c9f

(20378)

on November 09, 2011
at 06:22 AM

Thanks for sharing! I love how Kurt puts it: Eliminate: 1) Excess linoleic acid - avoid plant oils 2) Wheat and other gluten grains - white flour is the major player in the SAD 3) Limit your Fructose to amounts within our our evolutionary experience 4) Carbohydrate- rich foods tend to displace more valuable foods from animal sources. Favor food that is defenseless when dead - favor animal products. There's the 12 steps condensed to their essence.

best answer

5
7dc950fc76a046048e683d2a27dced37

on November 09, 2011
at 11:52 AM

I think the return on investment of industrially produced fruits & vegetables is declining. Between pesticides, other pathogens (listeria from cantaloupe), and reduced micronutrients from soil depletion, it's certainly giving me some pause.

That said, I find the hormetic benefits of vegetables (also from Kurt Harris) idea intriguing. And truth be told, I just like them as parts of my meals. So I try and go local and/or organic as much as possible.

best answer

5
100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 09, 2011
at 03:36 PM

Here's a study that I find interesting and relevant:

Green tea extract only affects markers of oxidative status postprandially: lasting antioxidant effect of flavonoid-free diet. Never mind the title. Here is the abstract, emphasis mine:


Epidemiological studies suggest that foods rich in flavonoids might reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer. The objective of the present study was to investigate the effect of green tea extract (GTE) used as a food antioxidant on markers of oxidative status after dietary depletion of flavonoids and catechins. The study was designed as a 2 x 3 weeks blinded human cross-over intervention study (eight smokers, eight non-smokers) with GTE corresponding to a daily intake of 18.6 mg catechins/d. The GTE was incorporated into meat patties and consumed with a strictly controlled diet otherwise low in flavonoids. GTE intervention increased plasma antioxidant capacity from 1.35 to 1.56 (P<0.02) in postprandially collected plasma, most prominently in smokers. The intervention did not significantly affect markers in fasting blood samples, including plasma or haemoglobin protein oxidation, plasma oxidation lagtime, or activities of the erythrocyte superoxide dismutase, glutathione peroxidase, glutathione reductase and catalase. Neither were fasting plasma triacylglycerol, cholesterol, alpha-tocopherol, retinol, beta-carotene, or ascorbic acid affected by intervention. Urinary 8-oxo-deoxyguanosine excretion was also unaffected. Catechins from the extract were excreted into urine with a half-life of less than 2 h in accordance with the short-term effects on plasma antioxidant capacity. Since no long-term effects of GTE were observed, the study essentially served as a fruit and vegetables depletion study. The overall effect of the 10-week period without dietary fruits and vegetables was a decrease in oxidative damage to DNA, blood proteins, and plasma lipids, concomitantly with marked changes in antioxidative defence.


Hyperlipid has a lot to say on this issue, for example Fruit and vegetables re post .

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1

(18696)

on November 09, 2011
at 03:41 PM

In other words, the researchers started out trying to see whether green tea extract is helpful in the absence of antioxidants from fruits and vegetables. It wasn't, but they discovered that removing the fruits and vegetables itself had a positive effect.

D31a2a2d43191b15ca4a1c7ec7d03038

(4134)

on November 10, 2011
at 05:44 PM

Ambimorph, thanks for posting about this study. It's one I have in my bookmarks for the information which you put in bold type.

best answer

1
F1b39d4f620876330312f4925bd51900

(4090)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:12 PM

Ray Peat talks about his take on vegetables in this article. Its an interesting read. He sticks with root veggie's.

7
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on November 09, 2011
at 02:26 PM

I asked a very similar question quite a while ago, which had a ton of useful information in the answers and comments. Note especially the answers and comments by Stephan-Aegis and Kamal. A lot of scientific references on the topic of veggies. Unfortunately, Stephan-Aegis doesn't post like he used to. Man, I learned a lot from him!

http://paleohacks.com/questions/10208/are-vegetables-good-or-bad-or-neutral#axzz1dDSBa7JQ

There is so much going on in that thread, that it would be unwise for me to summarize it here...

0
Medium avatar

(2301)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:21 PM

ok... then what's left to eat?

C00e493393828df34be65ddc25456c7c

(610)

on November 10, 2011
at 07:49 AM

What a boring diet without veggies.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:31 PM

1) No it's not; your opinion is it is. There's many people who don't like green leafy Atkins style vegetables. Historically, they're not human food. Meat and potatoes makes a wonderful meal. Rare lamb chops (spiced) with buttery mash? Yeah right... that's boring. 2) There's no need for food to be interesting. I enjoy my food but it's fuel not some kinda of treat. My food tastes amazing but you shouldn't need variety for the sake of it. Do you seriously think you need spinach, kale etc to have an interesting diet?

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 09, 2011
at 04:43 PM

Animal products and tubers... :-)

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:31 PM

1) No it's not; your opinion is it is. There's many people who don't like green leafy Atkins style vegetables. Historically, they're not human food. Meat and potatoes makes a wonderful meal. Rare lamb chops (spiced) with buttery mash? Yeah right... that's boring. 2) There's no need for food to be interesting. I enjoy my food but it's fuel but some kinda of treat. My food tastes amazing but you shouldn't need variety for the sake of it. Do you seriously think you need spinach, kale etc to have an interesting diet?

0
E46c729d18071082805378654a2020c5

(186)

on November 09, 2011
at 03:50 AM

What could possibly be bad about vegetables?....Exactly.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 09, 2011
at 03:42 PM

Personally, I think eating a moderate amount of vegetable is good, since it is hard to obtain folate otherwise. But, there is a lot that might be wrong with them, including: 1. Excessive folate, especially when eating fortified foods, like cereals. 2. High levels of nitrates, especially when conventional fertilizers used. 3. Pesticides. 4. FODMAPs (fermentable fibers) that can cause digestive distress in some people.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 09, 2011
at 05:05 PM

Eat liver for your folate... plus about every other nutrient you need. :-)

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 10, 2011
at 02:19 PM

You can't eat liver every day. Well, you could but that would be unwise.

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 11, 2011
at 09:10 AM

You're going off RDA?... That's based on SAD, you might want to consider that before harping on about the godlike properties of kale ;-)

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 11, 2011
at 10:28 AM

Plus, if you're eating eggs and tubers you'll get plently of folate. No need for weedy gorilla food. :-)

D12142c8cafb16d9af10b3362cb8fb62

(1590)

on November 10, 2011
at 10:25 PM

You said you have to eat it everyday; you don't become lacking in folate after 24 hours. Liver once a week is perfectly adequete.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94

(4359)

on November 11, 2011
at 01:14 AM

That's not true. Liver once per week does not provide nearly enough folate. One serving of beef liver contains about half of one day's worth of folate. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3469/2 You might want to do some research before contradicting me.

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