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does anyone else think leaky gut is a load of crap?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 17, 2013 at 1:26 AM

i know there are true inflammatory responses in the gut like villi damage from gluten but the idea that the gut can become so permeable that food particles enter the bloodstream is just asinine.

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 29, 2013
at 07:13 PM

I didn't insinuate anything, and I'm not being hyperbolic. Chlorine and other similar substances are very hazardous, but that doesn't necessary mean getting rid of them would be better. Instead, one should take steps to mitigate the damage, such as by using probiotics or eating extra fermented food, or avoiding chlorinated water when possible or practical

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 29, 2013
at 07:09 PM

The only evidence I need is the fact that GAPS-style protocols seem to work extremely well. Are you here to gather info for writing academic papers, or are you trying to benefit your health? I'm here for the latter. I absolutely do not care about whether there 'really are' food particles ending up in the bloodstream or not. All I know is that these claims seem to generate useful hypotheses on the topic of solving health issues

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 29, 2013
at 06:06 PM

Saying that chlorine causes "massive collateral damage to the necessary bacteria..." sounds to me like a call to arms for banning chlorine. But maybe you're just being hyperbolic.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 29, 2013
at 05:57 PM

Of course I read your post, which is why I called you a Luddite. You do not SAY that chlorination is bad, only INSINUATE that it is simply because it is modern. I work with all of the oxidants I listed, most on a daily basis, am aware of their environmental pros and cons, so I don't speak on the basis of insinuation. You also say, and I quote directly above, that food particles pass into the bloodstream. So not only do I understand your post, I understand that you are either blind to my request for evidence or incapable of producing it.

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 29, 2013
at 02:18 AM

And when did I suggest not using chlorine anymore?

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 29, 2013
at 02:18 AM

Did you even read my post? I don't care about whether there 'really are' undigested food particles in the bloodstream or not. All I care about is the fact that people have found certain protocols to work, such as GAPS

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 09:00 PM

Show me photos and analyses of those particles in the blood please. I still think you're a Luddite. You want to go back to the dysentery epidemics caused by drinking untreated water. What will you substitute for chlorine? Chlorine dioxide? Peracetic acid? Peroxide? Ozone? Those are all oxidizers, and it won't take long for naturopaths to find some new leaking guts.

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 28, 2013
at 05:31 PM

Sounds like you haven't looked into this very much. Chlorine is useful because it kills infectious diseases, but it comes with a heavy cost: also killing all sorts of beneficial micro-organisms in our body, most relevantly in our gut. And once you throw off the flora balance, food does not digest as well, and the regulation system for what passes through the gut lining and what doesn't gets messed up. With partially undigested food particles and a messed up gut lining, you end up with these particles entering the bloodstream, where they cause all sorts of problems

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 28, 2013
at 05:30 PM

Sounds like you haven't looked into this very much. Chlorine in useful because it kills infectious diseases, but it comes with a heavy cost: also killing all sorts of beneficial micro-organisms in our body, most relevantly in our gut. And once you throw off the flora balance, food does not digest as well, and the regulation system for what passes through the gut lining and what doesn't gets messed up. With partially undigested food particles and a messed up gut lining, you end up with these particles entering the bloodstream, where they cause all sorts of problems

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:24 PM

How does chlorine connect with chunks of food in the bloodstream? Are you a total Luddite? Let's just get rid of sanitation and that should fix our leaking guts.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:22 PM

No one has to resort to GAPS protocol, and no one has to believe in the Easter bunny.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:20 PM

The linked article is for a celiac diagnostic test. Nothing there regarding the food chunks claimed for leaky gut.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:15 PM

If my toe hurt could I blame it on leaky gut? Maybe going to a podiatrist would be a better response than visiting a naturopath. But then there would be no need for the naturopath.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:12 PM

Yeah, where are the chunks of undigested food? Show us your pictures!

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on January 17, 2013
at 05:40 PM

Sounds about right. It's definitely a legitimate thing, but people (probably especially we at PH) might sometimes be too quick to think it causes *everything.*

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on January 17, 2013
at 05:23 AM

Actually there is a reliable test of intestinal permeability: the lactulose-mannitol test (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10902869)

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on January 17, 2013
at 03:36 AM

Or even an hour away...

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on January 17, 2013
at 03:35 AM

Saw this one coming from a mile away...

74786bbe8254844304a33943290c4d6d

(1663)

on January 17, 2013
at 02:46 AM

BAHAHAHAHA! *falls over*

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on January 17, 2013
at 02:43 AM

What was it you said on another thread about not being a troll?

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on January 17, 2013
at 01:28 AM

Lol, right, forget the studies showing proteins from the food in the blood.. They're so full of shit.

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6 Answers

9
Ff5307d657eb7bbcc526dc7cf1ddd7fd

on January 17, 2013
at 02:16 AM

I do think that leaky gut is a load of crap . . . a load of crap IN THE BLOODSTREAM! ;)

7841848bd0c27c64353c583fb7971242

(7275)

on January 17, 2013
at 03:36 AM

Or even an hour away...

74786bbe8254844304a33943290c4d6d

(1663)

on January 17, 2013
at 02:46 AM

BAHAHAHAHA! *falls over*

194d8e8140425057fe06202e1e5822a7

(3979)

on January 17, 2013
at 03:35 AM

Saw this one coming from a mile away...

6
D7cc4049bef85d1979efbd853dc07c8e

(4029)

on January 17, 2013
at 02:54 AM

Months ago Chris Kresser interviewed Alessio Fasano, maybe the world's leading researcher on celiac. He said that it is his opinion that leaky gut is overblown, or rather, far too many things have been linked by alternative health professionals as having basis in a leaky gut or that repairing leaky gut will cure things there is no evidence for.

But he does insist it is real and he has the research that shows it. You should go dig up that podcast and listen to it.

Fd70d71f4f8195c3a098eda4fc817d4f

(8014)

on January 17, 2013
at 05:40 PM

Sounds about right. It's definitely a legitimate thing, but people (probably especially we at PH) might sometimes be too quick to think it causes *everything.*

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:15 PM

If my toe hurt could I blame it on leaky gut? Maybe going to a podiatrist would be a better response than visiting a naturopath. But then there would be no need for the naturopath.

3
9a5e2da94ad63ea3186dfa494e16a8d1

on January 17, 2013
at 01:51 AM

Well I guess we'll never know if the gut is really permeable unless they come up with cameras that can track food particles or something.

But as a theory it does a good job of explaining how a digestive tract can be faulty, and lead to various chronic health conditions, and be fixed so that these problems go away. I personally don't care if my gut was speaking Arabic and is now speaking French, but I feel a zillion times better employing things that are in line with the theory so... I'm sold so far.

211d4075d68b24cd0aa7ebfa94262bb9

on January 17, 2013
at 05:23 AM

Actually there is a reliable test of intestinal permeability: the lactulose-mannitol test (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10902869)

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:20 PM

The linked article is for a celiac diagnostic test. Nothing there regarding the food chunks claimed for leaky gut.

1
5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

on January 17, 2013
at 04:02 AM

It would I believe be no exaggeration to say that in recent years, no hypothesis on the topic of health has come even remotely close to generating such a wide variety of suggestions found so massively useful in such a wide range of contexts as the 'leaky gut' idea. Whether or not there 'really' are food particles moving through anyone's gut and into their bloodstream in any sort of relevant way is beside the point.

This hypothesis has been vetted by the alternative health community not on its utility in producing academic papers to be put successfully through the peer-review process for major journals on medical science, but instead for its massive utility in one's everyday life. Call the whole thing bullshit to one of the tens of thousands or more people who have been helped so massively by all the protocols suggested by this hypothesis--GAPS being the premier example--and expect to be met with disinterest.

That said, the claim itself may strike you as a bit less strange if you think about it this way: To absorb nutrients, one's body must extract and separate the nutrients from the rest of the food passing through one's body, making use of what is be to made use of, and removing what's either not useful, or even harmful (toxins). The walls of the gut are therefore part of a tightly controlled operation to intentionally pass certain compounds through, but keep others within the confines.

Seen from this perspective, you can conceptualize the problem as being one of certain modern conditions leading to the systems designed to regulate what does and does not pass going haywire. Nutrients are supposed to move through as part of the absorption process, whereas toxins and undigested food particles are not. The gut flora are a big part of the mechanism by which this process is carried out, and messed up gut flora means the 'gatekeepers' of the walls of the intestines do not function properly.

The gut flora is also part of the digestion process, which is why messed up gut flora leads to undigested food particles moving through the walls of the intestines. The expectation is that at a certain point in the digestive process, these particles are supposed to be properly digested, but since the gut flora is messed up and this condition therefore does not hold as it was supposed to, these food particles move through anyway, even though they have not been properly digested, leading to food allergies and other systemic effects.

Our systems are designed for an environment quite unlike the modern world, and we see the systemic effects everywhere. In this case the unnatural condition is the presence of environmental antibiotic contaminants--that is substances such as chlorine, and certain cleaning supplies, and plenty of other things, which have been developed to deal with harmful bacteria, but at the same time cause massive collateral damage to the necessary bacteria and micro-organisms that are an integral part to how our bodies function.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:24 PM

How does chlorine connect with chunks of food in the bloodstream? Are you a total Luddite? Let's just get rid of sanitation and that should fix our leaking guts.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 09:00 PM

Show me photos and analyses of those particles in the blood please. I still think you're a Luddite. You want to go back to the dysentery epidemics caused by drinking untreated water. What will you substitute for chlorine? Chlorine dioxide? Peracetic acid? Peroxide? Ozone? Those are all oxidizers, and it won't take long for naturopaths to find some new leaking guts.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 29, 2013
at 05:57 PM

Of course I read your post, which is why I called you a Luddite. You do not SAY that chlorination is bad, only INSINUATE that it is simply because it is modern. I work with all of the oxidants I listed, most on a daily basis, am aware of their environmental pros and cons, so I don't speak on the basis of insinuation. You also say, and I quote directly above, that food particles pass into the bloodstream. So not only do I understand your post, I understand that you are either blind to my request for evidence or incapable of producing it.

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 28, 2013
at 05:31 PM

Sounds like you haven't looked into this very much. Chlorine is useful because it kills infectious diseases, but it comes with a heavy cost: also killing all sorts of beneficial micro-organisms in our body, most relevantly in our gut. And once you throw off the flora balance, food does not digest as well, and the regulation system for what passes through the gut lining and what doesn't gets messed up. With partially undigested food particles and a messed up gut lining, you end up with these particles entering the bloodstream, where they cause all sorts of problems

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 29, 2013
at 02:18 AM

And when did I suggest not using chlorine anymore?

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 28, 2013
at 05:30 PM

Sounds like you haven't looked into this very much. Chlorine in useful because it kills infectious diseases, but it comes with a heavy cost: also killing all sorts of beneficial micro-organisms in our body, most relevantly in our gut. And once you throw off the flora balance, food does not digest as well, and the regulation system for what passes through the gut lining and what doesn't gets messed up. With partially undigested food particles and a messed up gut lining, you end up with these particles entering the bloodstream, where they cause all sorts of problems

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 29, 2013
at 02:18 AM

Did you even read my post? I don't care about whether there 'really are' undigested food particles in the bloodstream or not. All I care about is the fact that people have found certain protocols to work, such as GAPS

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 29, 2013
at 07:09 PM

The only evidence I need is the fact that GAPS-style protocols seem to work extremely well. Are you here to gather info for writing academic papers, or are you trying to benefit your health? I'm here for the latter. I absolutely do not care about whether there 'really are' food particles ending up in the bloodstream or not. All I know is that these claims seem to generate useful hypotheses on the topic of solving health issues

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 29, 2013
at 06:06 PM

Saying that chlorine causes "massive collateral damage to the necessary bacteria..." sounds to me like a call to arms for banning chlorine. But maybe you're just being hyperbolic.

5bd7f43c7da83282bcb78e3aa33832e0

(266)

on March 29, 2013
at 07:13 PM

I didn't insinuate anything, and I'm not being hyperbolic. Chlorine and other similar substances are very hazardous, but that doesn't necessary mean getting rid of them would be better. Instead, one should take steps to mitigate the damage, such as by using probiotics or eating extra fermented food, or avoiding chlorinated water when possible or practical

1
3327924660b1e2f8f8fc4ca27fedf2b2

(2919)

on January 17, 2013
at 03:05 AM

I dare you to say leaky gut is fake to someone who has to resort to the GAPS protocol. ;P

Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 28, 2013
at 12:22 PM

No one has to resort to GAPS protocol, and no one has to believe in the Easter bunny.

0
705e66484ed64fe8e188123de398413e

on January 17, 2013
at 03:11 AM

Surely not true of folks around here, but most of the people I talk to in person about Leaky Gut think I'm a full of crap.

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