0

votes

Biofilm and gut flora?

Commented on April 08, 2014
Created April 07, 2014 at 12:06 PM

Coming from the standard american diet I imagine most people are starting in on the paleo diet with at the very least what might be considered a compromised gut flora. What would be the best way to remove the bad gut flora so you can start building a healthier one?

Ironically enough some very common paleo recommendations like magnesium supplementation may even be hurting this goal. I've heard things like we would need a lot less mineral supplements if our gut biome wasn't sucking it all up, in the case of biofilms, pulling in your magnesium/calcium to help them form together. Iron is another one that the bacteria in our gut can use up, which actually may be beneficial for males, probably not so good for females?

Other things I've heard may provide results:

Fasting, NAC, vinegar, phytic acid ( Again ironically enough), xylitol, reducing mineral intake, pepto bismol, reducing starch/carb intake.

fermented foods,pre/probiotics and resistant starch for increasing good flora.

----------------------------

Would also be interested in hearing anything to do with any of the ideas above/ any elaboration or anecdotes.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on April 08, 2014
at 02:10 AM

face it, if you have a garden, you eat some of this all the time.

7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on April 08, 2014
at 12:45 AM

You sir are hardcore.

56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on April 08, 2014
at 12:32 AM

"Note: All food is unhealthy without gut bacteria adapted to the food."

This part I like. It derives directly from symbiotic principles. But how to get those bacteria? In the last year I have resumed sprouts after years of not eating them, I have added natto and avocado in large amounts. I started raw meat. What we need is a store where you can go and get those bacteria in pill form. I have been thinking about getting soil from under my leaves only compost pile, or eating earthworms (which have probiotics inside). That would be broad spectrum for sure.

7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on April 07, 2014
at 11:23 PM

Yea, thanks. Have already read all of that stuff, unfortunately it is really either cookie cutter or too obscure to make out, he never really ties all of the pieces together.

Again can't really blame him if none of this stuff is completely figured out.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:42 PM

Dr A is like a lot of very smart people.... experts in their field, they know their stuff but they are not great at transmitting to "regular" folk. :(

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2008/09/anti-inflammatory-diet.html

Dr Art posits....

"Note: All food is unhealthy without gut bacteria adapted to the food."

See other posts on repair of gut flora

gut flora repair

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2012/06/dr-oz-on-gut-flora-repair.html

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:41 PM

Dr Art is a pretty smart guy and unfortunately his blog is very hard for most (me included) to follow. He has a 'simplified' post AI diet, not perfectly simple but a bit easier to digest. :)

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2008/09/anti-inflammatory-diet.html

Dr Art posits....

"Note: All food is unhealthy without gut bacteria adapted to the food."

See other posts on repair of gut flora

gut flora repair

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2012/06/dr-oz-on-gut-flora-repair.html

I think Dr A's suggesions mirror @samc's experience witht PS.

7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:31 PM

Shame there is no protocol to speak of, I guess I will just make a checklist and see if anything pops.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:30 PM

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/ Dr Art Ayers ..... I totally recommend his blog if you or anyone you know has an AI or digestive problem or if you just want to learn.

7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on April 07, 2014
at 09:32 PM

Was hoping there was a bit more knowledge/regimen out there somewhere.

I also am currently using RS as well as NAC and am contemplating playing around with kefier/yogurt and maybe ketosis/fasting. But I would much rather piggyback on others knowledge and experience to save myself time and trouble of trying a bunch of useless or counter-productive methods.

Medium avatar

(238)

on April 07, 2014
at 09:16 PM

Trial and error. Since everyone is different what works for me might not work for you. Over at the RS MDA thread many people are taking multiple probiotics along with potato starch and claiming good results. I take PS with NOW probiotics and yogurt every day before lunch and it seems to have helped me. I've also upped the starches, sweet potato/white potato as well.

  • 7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

    asked by

    (300)
  • Views
    2.7K
  • Last Activity
    1416D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

3 Answers

best answer

0
56c28e3654d4dd8a8abdb2c1f525202e

(1822)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:13 PM

Yes, he is not very coherent in his recommendations. But then the field is wide open and no protocol has emerged yet. Broadly speaking, you want a rich ecosystem with lots of bacteria owning and using a lot of enzymes. That would make you able to detoxify foods better, able to digest them better, and protect your guts against leaks, helping with anything autoimmune. Through bacterial action, also absorb lots of SCFA and improve mineral absorption and B and K vitamin production in the gut.

How you get there is anyone's guess. Ayers suggests a semi-regular diet rich in resistant starches, stating without proof that continuous input of a specific fermentable fiber increases bacterial diversity, as a food chain forms. He suggests probiotics, but inspecting the (very expensive) pill bottles at the store shows at most ten types of bacteria per pill, all of the lactic type.

7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:31 PM

Shame there is no protocol to speak of, I guess I will just make a checklist and see if anything pops.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:42 PM

Dr A is like a lot of very smart people.... experts in their field, they know their stuff but they are not great at transmitting to "regular" folk. :(

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2008/09/anti-inflammatory-diet.html

Dr Art posits....

"Note: All food is unhealthy without gut bacteria adapted to the food."

See other posts on repair of gut flora

gut flora repair

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2012/06/dr-oz-on-gut-flora-repair.html

0
7904c7276d7e48f1be887fabd263bfd9

(300)

on April 07, 2014
at 09:04 PM

--comment response, over character limit--

I've read part of his blog, sadly I'm not smurt enuf to turn his articles into a coherent multi-factorial strategy on improving gut flora. ( I don't think he has himself came up with one? ) All I can pull out are the sound bites ( The information in my post ), what I'm curious about is the comparative effectiveness/timing/synergies between all of the things listed above.

For example, one could remove starches to starve bad bacteria...but at the same time you need to feed the good bacteria to increase there count. So do you remove starch/carbs for a week to starve out the bad bacteria ( Maybe combine with some other methods ) then add back in your starch in the form of resistant starch to boost the bacterial numbers back up?

Would that even make any sense or work, and how would you do it exactly? I have no clue. :D

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:41 PM

Dr Art is a pretty smart guy and unfortunately his blog is very hard for most (me included) to follow. He has a 'simplified' post AI diet, not perfectly simple but a bit easier to digest. :)

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2008/09/anti-inflammatory-diet.html

Dr Art posits....

"Note: All food is unhealthy without gut bacteria adapted to the food."

See other posts on repair of gut flora

gut flora repair

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/2012/06/dr-oz-on-gut-flora-repair.html

I think Dr A's suggesions mirror @samc's experience witht PS.

Medium avatar

(238)

on April 07, 2014
at 09:16 PM

Trial and error. Since everyone is different what works for me might not work for you. Over at the RS MDA thread many people are taking multiple probiotics along with potato starch and claiming good results. I take PS with NOW probiotics and yogurt every day before lunch and it seems to have helped me. I've also upped the starches, sweet potato/white potato as well.

0
Medium avatar

(238)

on April 07, 2014
at 08:55 PM

This guy talks extensively about the subject so I won't even attempt to answer when you can just read his blog.

F291857fa12a0291688ea994343156dc

(720)

on April 07, 2014
at 10:30 PM

http://coolinginflammation.blogspot.com/ Dr Art Ayers ..... I totally recommend his blog if you or anyone you know has an AI or digestive problem or if you just want to learn.

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!