2

votes

Question about GERD etc...?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM

Looks like I lost. Trouble swallowing, food coming up, pressure in throat. I tried so hard to cure my GERD with diet, supplements, and herbs...but to no avail it seems (paleo for six months now). Now, I've no clue the damage I've done. I'm happy for all the people that cured GERD or any other ailment through paleo. Didn't happen for me. Guess I'll have to take that stupid pill.

Is it unheard of for symptoms to get worse before getting better?

Can the esophagus heal after months of GERD damage?

I keep seeing "months" or "weeks" as the timeframe for healing from gut disorders. What about years? Does anybody know of somebody having to combat problems over an extended period of time?

How do you do an elimination diet?

D8c04730b5d016a839b3c5b932bf59dd

(823)

on June 14, 2012
at 05:49 AM

I'm so happy to hear you're sticking with it; and that you're getting a little better. :D

D8c04730b5d016a839b3c5b932bf59dd

(823)

on June 14, 2012
at 05:40 AM

funny ;) (and here's more text for teh comment)

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on June 02, 2012
at 12:01 PM

Yup, and if I ate nothing, just bile/acid.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on June 02, 2012
at 08:29 AM

So you had food coming back up, Ray?

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 03:13 PM

I would stick with commercial probiotics and not mess with kraut until you are better because it's a fodmap and ferments can sometimes contain things that are bothersome.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on May 31, 2012
at 10:36 AM

careful with that, while it may help, vinegar can certainly irritate the esophagus a lot more on the way down, and it's hell on teeth too. If it's used as part of a salad dressing, it's certainly not a problem, or if diluted. But straight up, it's dangerous.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 08:31 AM

It says that the rate is similar to Chron's which I known is around 15%-17% of the population. Plus, it's quite common in people with aggressive seasonal allergies, which I have. Oh, and they tried 40mg Nexium on me for a month. Did not work at all. So, signs you may have EE: GERD meds have no benefit, person is prone to seasonal allergies, swallowing trouble (despite a negative scope not even a year ago). Yep, he's a jackass.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 07:26 AM

Seven months ago an endoscopy revealed nothing. Not even inflammation of the esophagus. I was having trouble swallowing then, too. I'm inclined to believe it's psychosomatic. Highly unlikely it's anything dangerous considering how some of you had spent years with GERD and recovered.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 07:10 AM

*their way to cover

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 07:09 AM

What he was trying to say, I think/who knows, he doesn't think holistic treatments can create longevity in someone. He definitely said, genetics determine life expectancy/quality. When I heard that, my TMJ went through the roof at how hard I clenched my jaw hahaha! Genetics is the medical community's flying spaghetti monster (not to insult anyone). It's there way to cover up the fact that they know so little about the human body, and in many cases where it's profitable, don't intend to find out.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:58 AM

For the carrot salad http://paleohacks.com/questions/120538/ray-peats-carrot-salad#axzz1wOCNyhno it could help, not sure.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:56 AM

*"I didn't get into holistic medicine because I believe in longevity. How long you live is determined by genetics"* Did he really say "I believe in longevity"? That doesn't even make sense...

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:42 AM

Yeah, I remember that study about melatonin and GERD. I definitely have not been sleeping at consistent intervals, and I'm beginning to wonder if any of this will amount to much if I can't get my sleep/stress under control. I've read several studies drawing (or at least attempting to) correlations between gut flora and stress/sleep. Kombucha? I've no clue what that is.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:35 AM

No. I feel stupid for saying this, but he's an integrative medicine doctor. That's why I was originally excited to see him: diet, sleep, exercise, stress relief and all those other natural ways to help the body. This guy pretty much admitted he was a fraud today. I probably should not say this, but what I put he said IS what he said to me. I was shocked.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:25 AM

...are you any relation to August?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:25 AM

Oh, and yeah. Bone broth with every meal! Something funny I noticed when I had a cold awhile back. I consumed a ridiculous amount of chicken and bone broth. My IBS was completely normal during that time...o_O

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:23 AM

Is there a link to Ray Peat's carrot...salad? And yeah, I will need to find a new doctor. I had hopes for this guy because he practiced integrative medicine, but honestly I already have somebody for that and he's a million times better/cheaper/nicer.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:21 AM

I was tested awhile back. Honestly that doctor at least took her tests seriously. Anyways, it came back negative. I actually didn't have any trouble swallowing this past day or Tuesday, save for pills (food and liquids went down real easy though). Honestly, some of the supplements were my idea, but yeah he definitely didn't mind putting me on stuff. What is trouble swallowing a red flag for? Also, food didn't come back up at dinner nor did I have any type of burning. Still some burping though, but I honestly think some (not all) of that is attributed to nerves--air swallowing.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 06:17 AM

The ACV tonics after eating always helped me, but who knows how they worked? Dr. Ayers says they can't affect acidity very much, but perhaps it was something about the fermented nature? Kombucha always helped me to.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 06:16 AM

There are a lot of posts on HCL here. Like Art Ayers, I'm skeptical. I think it's not strong enough to break up the bad biofilms and in the large amounts people often take might impede healing. There also isn't a lot of good evidence that people with GERD actually have poor stomach acid, just that they have chronic inflammation and perhaps that they release acid at improper times (that's why sleep is so important to get down- a pilot study also showed melatonin makes a difference for GERD).

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 06:14 AM

See a new doctor. Is this jerkwad even a gastroenterologist?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 06:12 PM

Not specifically for GERD, not specifically for anything really, just a diet that improved me a lot when paleo stopped working. Most of my digestion issues are gone, I finally sweat again, my skin is clear of acne though still inflamed (light lupus), my skin feels like baby skin, and a whole lot of other problems I solved. On the other hand, I'm such an effin sick guy that I still have quite some issues that need working on :) How's your salt intake?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 05:02 PM

:) Yeah he doesn't give clear diet guidelines, though based on his work a diet of skimmed milk, ripe fruit, coconut oil, gelatin, coffee, shellfish, ... high in fruit sugar and low in muscle meat seems good. I wouldn't do VLC if I were you, it doesn't starve bad bacteria it just makes the whole bacteria stuff worse. My yeast spots (tinea) came back with VLC-ZC, for example. They disappeared when adding lots of fruit to my diet.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:33 PM

And to be honest, after reading some of his stuff, I've no idea where he stands on diet...

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:26 PM

No nuts, and I'm doing VLC at the moment to try and starve the bad bacteria. After doing some quick reading on Ray Peat, I suppose that's the wrong direction for his diet?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:15 PM

Sorry, raney. I remember us conversing on another post. I remember now, :)

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:14 PM

Korion, I'm not familiar with Ray Peat. Does he have a diet for GERD?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:13 PM

Lol Rigton. That's true, MathGirl, but then elimination isn't always the solution, and if the root cause is found healing is quick. I don't think GERD should take that long IMO. I don't know, maybe I shouldn't talk about these things since I only had very mild acid reflux, often when consuming pancakes. Then again, pancakes are the most evil food a person could possibly consume, since in our family there was gluten, PUFAs, alcohol, yeast, and soy in the recipe. You still eat nuts, Rigton? And are you low carb?

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:09 PM

No, I didn't discover paleo while I was dealing with GERD/ulcers. I did quit my PPI cold turkey though (while eating SAD), and it was absolutely miserable. I tossed a cinder block under each upper corner of my bed for 6 - 8 months, and sometimes I'd just sleep in the recliner. I kept a lot of pillows around to prop up on as well. It helped a ton. I think if nothing else, keeping the acid down via gravity allows some healing time. I wouldn't be afraid to pop a Zantac here and there as well, it being a much more acute remedy (as opposed to the major ongoing effect of PPIs.)

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:09 PM

Time to try out Ray Peat, Rigton .....

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:01 PM

Jackie, do you have a link, please?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:59 PM

So raney? Your symptoms did get worse at first going paleo?

Da20058e445fa4c5ce328132379521b3

(373)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:53 PM

Sorry, I missed the part where you mentioned sauerkraut.

363d0a0277a8b61ada3a24ab3ad85d5a

(4642)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:52 PM

I use the Pickl-it to make my own kraut - no mold or scum to scrape off (I know, harmless, but icky). They have all different sizes, small family company.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:51 PM

Korion, there cannot be dramatic improvement if problem foods are still being consumed.

Da20058e445fa4c5ce328132379521b3

(373)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:49 PM

Have you tried fermented foods? I had minor issues with reflux and that helped - yours sounds severe though. I hope you get an answer that works soon.

0d0842381492a41b2173a04014aae810

(4875)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:48 PM

Are you sleeping on an angled mattress, or even in a recliner or chair? That helped me IMMENSELY during that "worse before better stage" - which, yes, I did go through, but I feel mine was due to quitting PPIs cold turkey.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:44 PM

I'm not sure how long it will take me to heal, Korion. But I do know one thing: your little dino icon is adorable, haha!

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:32 PM

Thanks for making this sound more positive, haha. I was about to be reported to the Paleo Intervention Hotline, I think...

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:29 PM

I think this is pessimistic, after 6 months there should be at least dramatic improvement if your diet is right.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:27 PM

Thanks for rephrasing into a question! :)

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:18 PM

Rigton, you don't sound ungrateful at all. You sound incredibly frustrated. You need to take a deep breath and look at this with a clear head. You are correct that the stress isn't helping. I feel for you and hope you are able to find some peace of mind that will enable your body to heal.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:11 PM

Angelo, I started reading through that earlier, and thanks for posting. My question is though, how long is each Stage? I understand they overlap, but I'm curious as to how long Stage 1 needs to go on before moving to Stage 2?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:10 PM

Sorry, and you're right. I've read too much about stress and gut flora/IBS/GERD to know it has an enormous impact on the problem.

A3ff262a2686d79789e09a26013901b3

(1208)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:07 PM

"well now, that's terrible news". I know this all seems harsh and restrictive, but you need to go at this with the right attitude. All of us have already eliminated whole food groups (grains, dairy), you just have to eliminate a few more for a little while until you get this under control.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:02 PM

Yes, August (like the name by the way) I've heard that (from my doctor and herbalist both, actually). I'm not sure about the HLC though. I've heard of them not working for some people + being to harsh if the gut is inflamed. Melissa (HGL) said to try AVC...but now that I think of it, isn't AVC supposed to do the same thing as HCL? I'm not sure what to do about the HCL pills. I keep burping, and I've been told that's a sign of too little stomach acid.

B294438548c32ed878905baf6cd1b332

on May 30, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Here's the GAPS protocol, starting with the Introduction phase: http://www.gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:53 PM

Thanks though, MathGirl. I don't want to sound ungrateful for the help. I do appreciate it.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:53 PM

Well now, that's terrible news. Besides that carrots and celery, those were pretty much all of my vegetables...and carrots and celery can cause OAS. *Sigh*

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:48 PM

Spinach can actually exacerbate GERD for some. http://www.squidoo.com/natural-heartburn-relief and I found this information on more than one site: Foods with tall astringency such as oranges as well as tomatoes can additionally foster poison reflux symptoms. Also cruciferous vegetables that include: onions, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, spinach, as well as brussel sprouts as they action to foster a opening of a oesophageal sphincter, to illustrate augmenting poison reflux.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:38 PM

Wow, Matt, way to be supportive.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:38 PM

Syrahna, did your mom end up doing anything diet-wise, or was this after her surgery?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:33 PM

No, not congenital. It started just this last year about. Doctors of course would say it's genetic (family members on my mom's side all have it). But how did I go from an iron stomach (eating pizza and then falling asleep to wake up feeling like a million bucks) to eating grass-fed beef, steamed spinach, bone broth and not being able to swallow half the time? Hah, if anything I never planned on having kids, so at least these bad genetics won't get passed on!

3351f6c8ec1ea64435e419f380ca6468

(1255)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:32 PM

Kraut is way easy to make. Get a large jar - I use a tall old-fashioned style canning jar with the wire fastener and a gasket. Wash it in your dishwasher and or sterilize it in the oven (sans gasket). Fill with thin-sliced cabbage and salt water - no fuller than 1" from the top. Top with the stem-end of the cabbage cut to fit through the jar opening. Cover top with plastic wrap. Seal jar and leave in dark place. Wait about 10 days. Or google "sauerkraut recipe" for more detailed instructions.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:32 PM

About the esophagus - I posted below, but in my family n=1, my mom still loses her voice with every bad cold. But she used to lose it at the drop of a hat, and when she had it, it was hoarse. Her larynx was ulcerated for years and it hurt her. She did speech therapy, even. But now, she can yell and sing with the best of them. I've seen her heal. It did take years.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:29 PM

Oh, try the licorice at least - tastes bleh but I found it super helpful. It was great stomach TLC.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Yeah, 2 ENTs 1 GI and I'm seeing my PC doctor later today as a matter of fact. The 2 ENTs and 1 GI found nothing (this was about seven months ago, but honestly if something extremely serious developed in that short of a time span, when I've read on here about people having it for 15+ years, I was screwed from the beginning haha). The PC is a DO/homeopathic doctor (though he does practice modern allopathy). He said to pay attention to the symptoms and see if they get worse. They haven't gotten worse, but I'm hoping they'll get better. He also wanted me to take DGL and HCL, but I'm not sure now.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:22 PM

I use Bubbies. I'm not sure how to make my own. I would if I knew how.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:21 PM

Some times the symptoms happen in the morning, some times they don't. Some times they happen after I eat, and some times they don't. Sorry for being vague, but the consistency of the symptoms is vague. I wouldn't say vomiting has ever happened. Actually, I'd say the burping usually takes an hour or two after eating.

32123f4f25bdf6a7b70c9c2a719386ed

(396)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:18 PM

Is your kraut homemade or did you buy it. Make sure that it is alive. Some people use Bubbies and I am not sure that their kraut is really raw and not processed.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:14 PM

my life is still there. I've looked on PH and various guru blogs for the past five months and have not found one instance where someone said, "GERD took me five years (or insert number here) to resolve". I put up this post, and I admit needed to edit it, to find out if anyone had to do a several year protocol to cure there GERD. Or if their symptoms got worse or stopped after their gut healed.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:10 PM

Gripe? As in "to suffer pain from the bowels"? Why yes, Matt. I am griping. Thanks for those kind words. You have people are here talking about being at the end of their rope constantly: from anxiety to depression. I'm frustrated, and mind you many in the paleo community (and quite a few of the gurus) came to paleo out of frustration in the medical community. Once it's been seen it can't be unseen, Matt. I dealt with doctors for two years who couldn't do shit for me, and it was paleo that fixed the urination problems that had me going to the bathroom 20+ times a night. The one issue plaguing--

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:00 PM

Can't swallow? Talk to a doctor, don't gripe on PH.

Ea0154532caf2b4f600f8d30d74b0d3a

(112)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:52 PM

What is the timing of your symptoms if you don't mind me asking? Do they take an hour or two to develop after eating, or is it more immediately after eating? Is there, for lack of a better phrase, spontaneous vomiting? In terms of the time it takes to heal, I think an important question is if there is still active irritation happening. If so, then you are not really in the healing stage yet. To me, it sounds like the underlying issue is still there so you really havent been able to start the clock yet.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:40 PM

Food combinations?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:36 PM

So...what should I start with? I mean, is it pretty safe to assume spinach, beef and bone broth should not be giving me reflux? I have no known allergies to any of those things.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:34 PM

I had no intention of jumping the paleo ship. It was more about whether to take a PPI or have the wrap surgery or something of that nature.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:30 PM

Adding one food each day will not help you determine what is causing your issues. One food every few weeks.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:26 PM

Any guidelines for going about an elimination diet? I'm that jerk who over-thinks everything, so to me elimination is: IF, then adding one food per day. Which sounds asinine when I say it aloud...which I can't because I have a sore throat at the moment.

813cccf7c74bf8b20f41a317f796c243

(162)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:26 PM

Exactly. That, and a careful check of allergies and possible wrong food combinations. And patience. Plus, even if your problem should be 100% unrelated with what you eat, why quit paleo? ;-)

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:20 PM

I did, gilliebean. Melissa provides excellent guidelines and was kind enough to respond to one of my previous posts. I'm just at wits end here with this stupid disease.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:17 PM

I'm allergic to everything not paleo, hahaha. So, I know I'm on the right diet. As for metals? I have no idea...are you referring to chelation therapy, perhaps? My doctor does that.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:11 PM

P.S. This is not a question. Please rephrase to include a question or it will have to be deleted.

A89f9751a97c3082802dc0bcbe4e9208

(13978)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:10 PM

Check out this site: http://huntgatherlove.com/content/about

D5dff6376e17373751ccf4a10aaa0b34

(274)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:10 PM

If you can't swallow you really should try complete elimination diet or similar. Remove nightshades and eggs for instance. If I eat eggs too often I get food stuck near my stomach (I had to go to the ER). At first I thought Paleo was making it worse, but then I figured out that I was eating a lot more eggs to compensate for other things.

813cccf7c74bf8b20f41a317f796c243

(162)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:07 PM

Forgot to mention, beside paleo and regualar medical checks, being you in a particular situation, you should also consider to check how many metals you have poisoning your body, and if you have any specific food intollerance.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Have you cut out nightshades? They are huge culprits in the GERD business. You may need to go more strict than just "Paleo." You may still be consuming food that is poison to your body.

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21 Answers

5
61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 12:50 PM

The damage to your gut took longer than 6 months to occur. Healing may take years. Though this isn't a magic cure for all that ails ya, there is probably still quite a bit of damage to your gut, even after 6 months.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 05:02 PM

:) Yeah he doesn't give clear diet guidelines, though based on his work a diet of skimmed milk, ripe fruit, coconut oil, gelatin, coffee, shellfish, ... high in fruit sugar and low in muscle meat seems good. I wouldn't do VLC if I were you, it doesn't starve bad bacteria it just makes the whole bacteria stuff worse. My yeast spots (tinea) came back with VLC-ZC, for example. They disappeared when adding lots of fruit to my diet.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:29 PM

I think this is pessimistic, after 6 months there should be at least dramatic improvement if your diet is right.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:51 PM

Korion, there cannot be dramatic improvement if problem foods are still being consumed.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:44 PM

I'm not sure how long it will take me to heal, Korion. But I do know one thing: your little dino icon is adorable, haha!

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:26 PM

No nuts, and I'm doing VLC at the moment to try and starve the bad bacteria. After doing some quick reading on Ray Peat, I suppose that's the wrong direction for his diet?

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:13 PM

Lol Rigton. That's true, MathGirl, but then elimination isn't always the solution, and if the root cause is found healing is quick. I don't think GERD should take that long IMO. I don't know, maybe I shouldn't talk about these things since I only had very mild acid reflux, often when consuming pancakes. Then again, pancakes are the most evil food a person could possibly consume, since in our family there was gluten, PUFAs, alcohol, yeast, and soy in the recipe. You still eat nuts, Rigton? And are you low carb?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:33 PM

And to be honest, after reading some of his stuff, I've no idea where he stands on diet...

3
7bf306ada57db47547e9da39a415edf6

(11214)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:58 PM

Have you heard the idea that the reason people have GERD is that their stomach acid is actually too low? I went searching for where I heard that and came up with this: http://chriskresser.com/what-everybody-ought-to-know-but-doesnt-about-heartburn-gerd http://chriskresser.com/the-hidden-causes-of-heartburn-and-gerd http://chriskresser.com/more-evidence-to-support-the-theory-that-gerd-is-caused-by-bacterial-overgrowth

I am pretty sure I heard Nora Gedgaudas and possibly Robb Wolf talk about this too.
Sorry if you've already read all that sort of thing, but I couldn't help thinking that grassfed beef needs a nice wallop of acid in the stomach to break it down.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 06:17 AM

The ACV tonics after eating always helped me, but who knows how they worked? Dr. Ayers says they can't affect acidity very much, but perhaps it was something about the fermented nature? Kombucha always helped me to.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:02 PM

Yes, August (like the name by the way) I've heard that (from my doctor and herbalist both, actually). I'm not sure about the HLC though. I've heard of them not working for some people + being to harsh if the gut is inflamed. Melissa (HGL) said to try AVC...but now that I think of it, isn't AVC supposed to do the same thing as HCL? I'm not sure what to do about the HCL pills. I keep burping, and I've been told that's a sign of too little stomach acid.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:42 AM

Yeah, I remember that study about melatonin and GERD. I definitely have not been sleeping at consistent intervals, and I'm beginning to wonder if any of this will amount to much if I can't get my sleep/stress under control. I've read several studies drawing (or at least attempting to) correlations between gut flora and stress/sleep. Kombucha? I've no clue what that is.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 06:16 AM

There are a lot of posts on HCL here. Like Art Ayers, I'm skeptical. I think it's not strong enough to break up the bad biofilms and in the large amounts people often take might impede healing. There also isn't a lot of good evidence that people with GERD actually have poor stomach acid, just that they have chronic inflammation and perhaps that they release acid at improper times (that's why sleep is so important to get down- a pilot study also showed melatonin makes a difference for GERD).

3
D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:28 PM

I'm not judging the pills. AT ALL. Reflux did so much damage to my mom, it's not funny. She was the queen of laryngitis. Inflammation is still the greater harm, in my eyes, so take the pill and save your tissues, if you need to. BUT.

I agree with the rest that the pill may not be the end all be all. And is there a congenital cause of the reflux, by any chance? My mom ended up having surgery on her stomach valve, and poof, years of acid damage ended. That's a bigger pain that pills, but I'm just throwing it out there. I have NO idea how common that problem is.

And last of all - give it time. Why not optimize your diet even if you want to try the meds? Give the meds a better shot, if nothing else.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:33 PM

No, not congenital. It started just this last year about. Doctors of course would say it's genetic (family members on my mom's side all have it). But how did I go from an iron stomach (eating pizza and then falling asleep to wake up feeling like a million bucks) to eating grass-fed beef, steamed spinach, bone broth and not being able to swallow half the time? Hah, if anything I never planned on having kids, so at least these bad genetics won't get passed on!

2
251e61472b3201ef4e0888b20992f074

on May 30, 2012
at 05:18 PM

Has your Dr tested you for Eosinophilic Esophagitis (EoE)? People with EoE are often misdiagnosed with GERD, but one of the most common symptom adults have of EoE is trouble swallowing. Food is usually the culprit. Some common triggers include dairy, soy, Wheat, eggs, potatoes, chicken and/or beef. Treatment involves avoidance of trigger foods or sometimes swallowed steroids help control the symptoms. Check out the APFED website for more info. They also have info on how to do an elimination diet.

2
0a6376917fcaee2c65fbf614543f62cb

on May 30, 2012
at 01:43 PM

I have 2 friends that suffer from this. Each gets a build up of scar tissue at the top of the stomach/bottom of esophagus. They have both had to go under and have the area stetched out when they become unable to get food to pass through this spot. Obviously that is treating the symptom, and not the cause, but if you are unable to swallow you may need to stretch the area out to get you by until you can fix the cause??? Hope things get better for you soon.

2
57c466e70609e0294fd638eb9f32330f

on May 30, 2012
at 01:17 PM

Six months is not giving it enough time...you have a lifetime of healing to do. I agree with the above commenter...go STRICT Paleo and give it more time...Do not resort to the pills.

1
96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on May 31, 2012
at 10:33 AM

It got worse for me before it got better. Before going paleo, I had to take a zantac every night, and I did notice that the more I took the stuff, the more I was training my stomach to produce extra acid at a specific time.

I know this because I stopped having dinner since it was such torture to have it climb back up my neck and choke me - so on nights when I forgot to take the zantac, but ate absolutely nothing, it got worse at exactly the time I usually took the zantac!

So I started to take half a pill, then a quarter pill, and so on by chopping them up with a knife. I also stupidly found that eating hard cheeses would counteract the acid - it did, but I actually had a slightly different issue. If I ate nothing at all for dinner, I'd also get a squirt of bile build up in my stomach, and I'd get bile reflux - see, about 10 years before, I had my gall bladder out. (This seems to be a classic issue with wheat, if you go low fat for a while, then reintroduce fat, you cause gall stones, and in this modern age of surgery, the doctors are intent on removing things a lot more than they are fixing them.) So the cheese was actually counteracting the bile as well since it contains fat.

Another trick I learned is to take a bit of olive oil before eating foods that would get stuck. The worse stuff is usually turkey - tends to get stuck in my throat because it's dry. Sometimes certain vitamins would get stuck, especially if I took them with green tea instead of

However, once I went paleo, the reflux got much worse, this is because once the leaky gut caused by grains and legumes was healed, I started to absorb more zinc, potassium, magnesium, etc. all of which are needed to create stomach acid.

Like you, I asked desperately, but on Robb Wolf's forum instead, and Squachy mentioned that that I should take digestive enzymes which contain bile and betaine HCL, and that I should try to eliminate dairy. At first I was resistant to eliminating dairy, because I was using cheese to counteract the acid/bile, but in about a week, all the reflux went away.

The digestive enzymes (Now Super enzymes is what I used), had another effect - I started to get normal stools now instead of things that looked like clusters of grapes. And since they contain some Betaine HCL, they helped restore stomach acid as well, so I started to digest proteins better.

The protocol with digestive enzymes is to take one pill at a time on an empty stomach than put your hand on top of your stomach right below your solar plexus and feel for heat. Once you feel heat with X numbers of pills, that's the dose to take. If you don't feel heat and you've taken 5 of them, don't take any more. Make sure to eat something immediately after this or you might get reflux. Whenever you take these pills, you should have a meal containing both proteins and fats.

Feeling much better, about a month later, I got brave and tried to eat some cheese in the morning, and WHAM! Acid reflux that night. I stopped again for a while and tried it again a few weeks later, and it came back once more. Experimented some more and found out that almost any cow dairy produces it, whether fermented or not - but goat's milk doesn't. So I'm fairly sure that for me, it's the casein, or something else in cow's milk (since cheeses and yogurts have the lactose eaten by bacteria.)

So for now I'd take a very close look at the diet, you might not fix it immediately, and it will take time to heal your esophagus, but things like dairy must go. You might have a reaction to some other food you're eating every day, so rotate it out for a week and see if there's any improvement. Some people have issues with nightshades (tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, etc.)

Try to avoid foods that tend to get stuck, or swallow a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil before eating them, and maybe even during, and chew very well. The oil won't do much to heal your esophagus, but it will help coat it so the food won't get stuck as easily. Plus it's a good source of healthy fat. You can also try butter, or better yet ghee as ghee doesn't have milk solids (incase you've got issues with dairy - I can do ghee without issue).

Taking some supplements may help as well: potassium, zinc, and especially magnesium. Possibly some iodine (eating kelp or seafood is better.) In terms of potassium, pills are a waste, they give you very little as for some reason each is only 99mg, where a coconut water has 6x more. Bananas have some, but they're very high in sugar and since I tend to go VLC, I avoid them. I usually cycle between ZMA and magnesium malate.

ZMA is another interesting thing, it can raise your Testosterone levels, while it provides zinc and magnesium, but it can cause weird vivid dreams as well, so maybe stay away from it for now since the reflux is keeping you awake.

Going low carb may help as well, I remember a podcast mentioning that if you've got SIBO, eating carbs can cause gas in the small intestine which may go back up through the stomach and cause acid to go up. Not sure on this point.

After eliminating dairy, all of a sudden I had issues with eggs, especially the whites, it was like I couldn't digest them, and they'd sit in my stomach like a rock, but a few weeks later, that went away, probably as the levels of stomach acid adjusted it got better. But some people actually have issues with eggs. I don't, it was a temporary thing. Try avoiding them for a while and see if they make any difference, then reintroduce them and see if you get a problem, etc.

Obviously avoid all grains and legumes - leaky gut can take a month or so to cure, and any exposure to grains will reverse that. But once that part is healed, you'll be better able to absorb minerals that affect stomach acid.

So stick to meats and veggies that you can tolerate for a while and find out what works for you. It's a rough ride, I know, I was there too, but you have a good chance to get through it.

Depending on how bad the damage is, you may have to get surgery to remove the scar tissue and repair the LES, but give this a try too.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on June 02, 2012
at 08:29 AM

So you had food coming back up, Ray?

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on June 02, 2012
at 12:01 PM

Yup, and if I ate nothing, just bile/acid.

1
E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 07:14 AM

I wanted to thank everyone so much for their answers. While I earnestly believe in the health benefits of paleo (I'm beginning to think some people can get away with eating more grains than others, but I still believe in the principles), I'm more impressed by the community. No one ever seems to give up on people--not the gurus, not the practitioners.

Here's what I will say about my GERD (let me know if these are signs of improvement):

Prior to starting paleo, I would wake up in the middle of the night every night with this horrible burning/bile fluid in my mouth. I'd often choke and have that awful burning for the rest of the night before taking tums.

At one point, just before my full-blown panic attack. I ate this sandwich with wheat bread and it wouldn't even go down my throat (I seriously could not swallow at all). That's never happened again.

I'd constantly get aggravating heartburn with each and every meal. It hurt to eat.

Throat burning/reflux was pretty much guaranteed when I worked out. The last several months I have not gotten it at all.

There :) There's my positive affirmation attempt that this is getting better. Sorry, people. I'm going to try and stay more positive!

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 07:26 AM

Seven months ago an endoscopy revealed nothing. Not even inflammation of the esophagus. I was having trouble swallowing then, too. I'm inclined to believe it's psychosomatic. Highly unlikely it's anything dangerous considering how some of you had spent years with GERD and recovered.

1
9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 06:13 AM

The trouble swallowing here is a red flag. My GERD got worse going off the PPIs at first, but within a week of ZC at least the burping was gone and I could no longer feel reflux.

I normally shy away from recommending endoscopies, but it sounds possible you have eosinophilic esophagitis. Oh I see your doctor laughed at you. Another red flag. Please see a different doctor. Is this the same doctor that had you on all those ridiculous supplements? Studies show EE is underdiagnosed.

What is your digestion like on VLC? Have you tried ZC? Don't forget these regimens are temporary. I certainly no longer eat ZC.

I think it's also possible if these don't work that you can't starve the bacteria because the bad ones you have are the type that can consume (or mainly consume) proteins/amino acids. A lot of this "starving" stuff is just theories at this point. Other theories that might be helpful is breaking up biofilms with things like Ray Peat's carrot salad or bromelain. Are you consuming bone broth?

Have you been tested for h.pylori?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:25 AM

Oh, and yeah. Bone broth with every meal! Something funny I noticed when I had a cold awhile back. I consumed a ridiculous amount of chicken and bone broth. My IBS was completely normal during that time...o_O

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:58 AM

For the carrot salad http://paleohacks.com/questions/120538/ray-peats-carrot-salad#axzz1wOCNyhno it could help, not sure.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:23 AM

Is there a link to Ray Peat's carrot...salad? And yeah, I will need to find a new doctor. I had hopes for this guy because he practiced integrative medicine, but honestly I already have somebody for that and he's a million times better/cheaper/nicer.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:21 AM

I was tested awhile back. Honestly that doctor at least took her tests seriously. Anyways, it came back negative. I actually didn't have any trouble swallowing this past day or Tuesday, save for pills (food and liquids went down real easy though). Honestly, some of the supplements were my idea, but yeah he definitely didn't mind putting me on stuff. What is trouble swallowing a red flag for? Also, food didn't come back up at dinner nor did I have any type of burning. Still some burping though, but I honestly think some (not all) of that is attributed to nerves--air swallowing.

1
A3ff262a2686d79789e09a26013901b3

on May 30, 2012
at 01:09 PM

I concur with @MathGirl72, this takes time. Also I mentioned the GAPS protocol in one of your other posts I think. Maybe you need to reduce your diet right down to basics. Bone broth, probiotics, no nightshades...etc. An elimination diet

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:11 PM

Angelo, I started reading through that earlier, and thanks for posting. My question is though, how long is each Stage? I understand they overlap, but I'm curious as to how long Stage 1 needs to go on before moving to Stage 2?

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:48 PM

Spinach can actually exacerbate GERD for some. http://www.squidoo.com/natural-heartburn-relief and I found this information on more than one site: Foods with tall astringency such as oranges as well as tomatoes can additionally foster poison reflux symptoms. Also cruciferous vegetables that include: onions, cabbage, cauliflower, broccoli, spinach, as well as brussel sprouts as they action to foster a opening of a oesophageal sphincter, to illustrate augmenting poison reflux.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:36 PM

So...what should I start with? I mean, is it pretty safe to assume spinach, beef and bone broth should not be giving me reflux? I have no known allergies to any of those things.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:53 PM

Thanks though, MathGirl. I don't want to sound ungrateful for the help. I do appreciate it.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:26 PM

Any guidelines for going about an elimination diet? I'm that jerk who over-thinks everything, so to me elimination is: IF, then adding one food per day. Which sounds asinine when I say it aloud...which I can't because I have a sore throat at the moment.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:53 PM

Well now, that's terrible news. Besides that carrots and celery, those were pretty much all of my vegetables...and carrots and celery can cause OAS. *Sigh*

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:30 PM

Adding one food each day will not help you determine what is causing your issues. One food every few weeks.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:10 PM

Sorry, and you're right. I've read too much about stress and gut flora/IBS/GERD to know it has an enormous impact on the problem.

B294438548c32ed878905baf6cd1b332

on May 30, 2012
at 03:00 PM

Here's the GAPS protocol, starting with the Introduction phase: http://www.gapsdiet.com/INTRODUCTION_DIET.html

A3ff262a2686d79789e09a26013901b3

(1208)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:07 PM

"well now, that's terrible news". I know this all seems harsh and restrictive, but you need to go at this with the right attitude. All of us have already eliminated whole food groups (grains, dairy), you just have to eliminate a few more for a little while until you get this under control.

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:18 PM

Rigton, you don't sound ungrateful at all. You sound incredibly frustrated. You need to take a deep breath and look at this with a clear head. You are correct that the stress isn't helping. I feel for you and hope you are able to find some peace of mind that will enable your body to heal.

1
813cccf7c74bf8b20f41a317f796c243

on May 30, 2012
at 01:06 PM

6 months are quite a short term, considering your situation. Plus, paleo shouldn't be the replace of any medicamental protocol you were following, but a support, while you are keep on checking your status with regular checks and everything. Plus: it is easy to say "I've been paleo". I know people, for example, whining about not increasing strenght and having long rcovery time from training since they went paleo. Then you speak with these people and they tell you that they were doing paleo but eating not too much fat "because they don't feel safe to do it", or more carbs "because they need it for strenght". So, ok, 6 months paleo, but how ways your paleo?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:34 PM

I had no intention of jumping the paleo ship. It was more about whether to take a PPI or have the wrap surgery or something of that nature.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:40 PM

Food combinations?

813cccf7c74bf8b20f41a317f796c243

(162)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:07 PM

Forgot to mention, beside paleo and regualar medical checks, being you in a particular situation, you should also consider to check how many metals you have poisoning your body, and if you have any specific food intollerance.

813cccf7c74bf8b20f41a317f796c243

(162)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:26 PM

Exactly. That, and a careful check of allergies and possible wrong food combinations. And patience. Plus, even if your problem should be 100% unrelated with what you eat, why quit paleo? ;-)

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:17 PM

I'm allergic to everything not paleo, hahaha. So, I know I'm on the right diet. As for metals? I have no idea...are you referring to chelation therapy, perhaps? My doctor does that.

1
E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 12:54 PM

I know it took years. I ate more whole grains trying to bulk up for weight lifting than most of you could have consumed on a lifetime of SAD. I may sound like a little kid, but it's frightening to not be able to swallow sometimes. Plus, that's a recent symptom. Should not the paleo diet have at least stopped things from getting worse?

61844af1187e745e09bb394cbd28cf23

(11058)

on May 30, 2012
at 12:59 PM

Have you cut out nightshades? They are huge culprits in the GERD business. You may need to go more strict than just "Paleo." You may still be consuming food that is poison to your body.

D5dff6376e17373751ccf4a10aaa0b34

(274)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:10 PM

If you can't swallow you really should try complete elimination diet or similar. Remove nightshades and eggs for instance. If I eat eggs too often I get food stuck near my stomach (I had to go to the ER). At first I thought Paleo was making it worse, but then I figured out that I was eating a lot more eggs to compensate for other things.

0
7a200761a48be9c66b9714cdb3b7cad1

on January 21, 2013
at 07:06 AM

Hi Rigton, any update on your situation? Any advice for someone who also suffers from GERD? What's worked for you?

0
E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on June 02, 2012
at 08:36 AM

Update: started my regimen yesterday. To everyone who's commented/offered advice/shared their personal experience, it means the world to me. It really does.

Symptoms: my throat's not as tight, I don't really feel the globus at all, swallowing seems to have gotten better (still a little trouble but everyone says that doesn't get better overnight). No pressure in the throat either.

Still getting a little burning in the throat after meals. Burping still--but the majority of them are actual burps as opposed to the tiny bits of gas from what I assume is GERD causing pressure.

Food is not coming up as much but it definitely still comes back up sometimes. I guess that's the most worrying symptom, but I've read it happens with GERD fairly often.

Still a ways to go, but Melissa's blog said six months (yikes!) for some. Considering I may have been tackling this thing from the wrong angle for so long, I may be on restart here.

Wish me luck!

(I'm going to hold off on a scope for a month at least unless things get tremendously worse). I also need to stay off the damn WebMD. Type in sneezing and you'll get a search result of "malignant brain tumor"!

D8c04730b5d016a839b3c5b932bf59dd

(823)

on June 14, 2012
at 05:49 AM

I'm so happy to hear you're sticking with it; and that you're getting a little better. :D

0
E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 08:23 AM

Anyone think I should send this to that doctor? Hahahaha...http://www.mayoclinic.org/medicalprofs/adult-eosinophilic-esophagitis.html

"Eosinophilic esophagitis is not rare."

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 08:31 AM

It says that the rate is similar to Chron's which I known is around 15%-17% of the population. Plus, it's quite common in people with aggressive seasonal allergies, which I have. Oh, and they tried 40mg Nexium on me for a month. Did not work at all. So, signs you may have EE: GERD meds have no benefit, person is prone to seasonal allergies, swallowing trouble (despite a negative scope not even a year ago). Yep, he's a jackass.

0
E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 05:51 AM

The thing that irks me is that I was going to this one chiropractor I didn't really care for, but he had this OTHER chiro who would fill in for him when he was on vacation. That guy was amazing/knew all about supplements and various joint disorders, hiatal hernias, all that stuff. Problem was he had a unique last name and I couldn't ever figure on what it was. I go to a chiro now who I like, but I'm not really sure how much he's aware of things like a hiatal hernia. I'll be sure and ask him though.

I have been in an eating rut as of late, and to be honest, when I started paleo/primal eating months ago, my IBS was much more stable when I was eating a variety of foods. I did the autoimmune protocol because of Robb Wolf, and now am doing FODMAPs. I've severely limited my vegetables and fruit, and it's kind of adding to the frustration to be honest. I'll try this VLC thing for the rest of the week, and then I'm going to probably start adding some stuff back in. It's funny because when I started paleo/primal it didn't seem like all of this would ever be necessary. Now, here I am, doing elimination diets...the hell?

By the way, to anyone who I've defended my doctor to...I was wrong. Earlier today, I mentioned EoE to my doctor, and he point blank laughed in my face >:( He said that it was too rare to seriously consider. Here's a question for doctors out there: If it hasn't been ruled out, then why is it not a possibility? He then proceeded to tell me the stupidest thing I'd ever heard, "I didn't get into holistic medicine because I believe in longevity. How long you live is determined by genetics," REALLY?!? I was not aware that if I drank like a fish, ate bullshit processed foods, and chain smoked it would be my genetics that gave me cancer/heart disease. Why do we even need doctors then, hm? If our time on Earth, is destined by biological mechanics, there's no reason to go to the doctor. Ever...jackass.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 06:14 AM

See a new doctor. Is this jerkwad even a gastroenterologist?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 07:10 AM

*their way to cover

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:35 AM

No. I feel stupid for saying this, but he's an integrative medicine doctor. That's why I was originally excited to see him: diet, sleep, exercise, stress relief and all those other natural ways to help the body. This guy pretty much admitted he was a fraud today. I probably should not say this, but what I put he said IS what he said to me. I was shocked.

B0fe7b5a9a197cd293978150cbd9055f

(8938)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:56 AM

*"I didn't get into holistic medicine because I believe in longevity. How long you live is determined by genetics"* Did he really say "I believe in longevity"? That doesn't even make sense...

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 07:09 AM

What he was trying to say, I think/who knows, he doesn't think holistic treatments can create longevity in someone. He definitely said, genetics determine life expectancy/quality. When I heard that, my TMJ went through the roof at how hard I clenched my jaw hahaha! Genetics is the medical community's flying spaghetti monster (not to insult anyone). It's there way to cover up the fact that they know so little about the human body, and in many cases where it's profitable, don't intend to find out.

0
D8c04730b5d016a839b3c5b932bf59dd

on May 31, 2012
at 04:44 AM

Also, you mentioned what you eat for breakfast, but what of the rest of the day? Are you eating enough food? That was much of my problem today. I kind of binged on Monday night, so yesterday I wasn't eating much, and today wasn't paying proper attention.

And a variety of foods? Sometimes when people get into elimination, there's so few choices left, they eat the same things over and over. That's not so great paleo, variety is important for bodies to stay in tune.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 31, 2012
at 06:25 AM

...are you any relation to August?

D8c04730b5d016a839b3c5b932bf59dd

(823)

on June 14, 2012
at 05:40 AM

funny ;) (and here's more text for teh comment)

0
D8c04730b5d016a839b3c5b932bf59dd

on May 31, 2012
at 04:42 AM

I'm going to suggest something you may not have heard before. Have you tried a chiropractor? I have a genetic condition that pre-disposes me to GERD, among other wretched things. I go to my chiro for EVERYthing. I also have an awesome massage therapist, who is really a kinesiologist. He is frequently adjusting my stomach. Yep. So today, I was going for chiro because it's been too long and everything was out of place. I'd been having trouble with my stomach all day, so I asked him if he adjusted organs too. I explained it was my stomach and sometimes my other guy (who my chiro knows also) can 'pull it down.' He said, 'oh, yah, sure, I can get that hiatal hernia.' I have no idea what he did, it kind of feels like they stick their fingers up under my ribs, and then yank down towards my pelvis. I got instant better on the table, though urpy all the way back to work. (I laughed when I realized that tums are 'manager candy') Hard to buy lunch when it was still mad, but I knew I had to eat. Got a chicken salad at Trader Joe's. I'm finally feeling a lot better tonight. [my chiro is a joint specialist, not just spine][he's also eye candy!]

Also, I have a different chiropractor who does NAET (www.naet.com) in addition to adjustments. I know that I can tolerate a little bit of stuff that I'm allergic to (milk and malt ~ neither of which are in my paleo food plan anyhow) because of the treatments; and many others she's completely cured.

0
Fc64db6a555559762432d503a1dbad19

(1478)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:19 PM

Not sure if I can be any help, but check out this article http://chriskresser.com/what-everybody-ought-to-know-but-doesnt-about-heartburn-gerd. You probably already read it, but if not, hopefully it will help. I heard that some people benefit from cider vinegar after meals. My dad has battled this problem for years and none of this helped, because he had problems with his esophagus closing. The medication does help him, but is causing high bloodpressure, so he has had to lower his dose.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84

(19463)

on May 31, 2012
at 10:36 AM

careful with that, while it may help, vinegar can certainly irritate the esophagus a lot more on the way down, and it's hell on teeth too. If it's used as part of a salad dressing, it's certainly not a problem, or if diluted. But straight up, it's dangerous.

0
592fdaa77ec6342b736f1d25962aab7f

(547)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:14 PM

Wait - have you seen physician?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:25 PM

Yeah, 2 ENTs 1 GI and I'm seeing my PC doctor later today as a matter of fact. The 2 ENTs and 1 GI found nothing (this was about seven months ago, but honestly if something extremely serious developed in that short of a time span, when I've read on here about people having it for 15+ years, I was screwed from the beginning haha). The PC is a DO/homeopathic doctor (though he does practice modern allopathy). He said to pay attention to the symptoms and see if they get worse. They haven't gotten worse, but I'm hoping they'll get better. He also wanted me to take DGL and HCL, but I'm not sure now.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:29 PM

Oh, try the licorice at least - tastes bleh but I found it super helpful. It was great stomach TLC.

0
E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:16 PM

Well, I'd like to think I'm not whining. More at the end of my rope.

Here's breakfast (and this has been it for quite some time)

Grass-fed beef (ground, 5oz--cooked in tallow) 2 cups bone broth 3 cups steamed spinach 1 cup sauerkraut

As for supplementing paleo for medical protocols...I haven't. When I was scoped seven months ago, and you may be shocked to hear this, the GI took me off Nexium. That's right. HE told me I didn't need it. Also, my PC doctor wanted me to try natural routes first before being forced to take a PPI.

As for the nightshades, nuts and all of that jazz, I stopped those probably two months back. And FODMAPs probably a little over a month ago.

Understand where I'm coming from, Disimaco. "I stopped eating grains and BAM! GERD is gone!" is half of what I see in posts on the matter. I'd be wrong to say I'm not somewhat jealous of their success--happy for them--but envious all the same. In reading Melissa's post on her website, on here, ect. I had some hope that some people take longer to heal. But I don't see anyone talking about strict paleo, FODMAPs, ect. for 1 year+.

Also, do symptoms persist even if you're healing? Do they get worse sometimes? Can the esophagus even heal after seven/eight months of GERD?

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:38 PM

Syrahna, did your mom end up doing anything diet-wise, or was this after her surgery?

363d0a0277a8b61ada3a24ab3ad85d5a

(4642)

on May 30, 2012
at 03:52 PM

I use the Pickl-it to make my own kraut - no mold or scum to scrape off (I know, harmless, but icky). They have all different sizes, small family company.

Ea0154532caf2b4f600f8d30d74b0d3a

(112)

on May 30, 2012
at 01:52 PM

What is the timing of your symptoms if you don't mind me asking? Do they take an hour or two to develop after eating, or is it more immediately after eating? Is there, for lack of a better phrase, spontaneous vomiting? In terms of the time it takes to heal, I think an important question is if there is still active irritation happening. If so, then you are not really in the healing stage yet. To me, it sounds like the underlying issue is still there so you really havent been able to start the clock yet.

32123f4f25bdf6a7b70c9c2a719386ed

(396)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:18 PM

Is your kraut homemade or did you buy it. Make sure that it is alive. Some people use Bubbies and I am not sure that their kraut is really raw and not processed.

3351f6c8ec1ea64435e419f380ca6468

(1255)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:32 PM

Kraut is way easy to make. Get a large jar - I use a tall old-fashioned style canning jar with the wire fastener and a gasket. Wash it in your dishwasher and or sterilize it in the oven (sans gasket). Fill with thin-sliced cabbage and salt water - no fuller than 1" from the top. Top with the stem-end of the cabbage cut to fit through the jar opening. Cover top with plastic wrap. Seal jar and leave in dark place. Wait about 10 days. Or google "sauerkraut recipe" for more detailed instructions.

9d43f6873107e17ca4d1a5055aa7a2ad

on May 31, 2012
at 03:13 PM

I would stick with commercial probiotics and not mess with kraut until you are better because it's a fodmap and ferments can sometimes contain things that are bothersome.

D5d982a898721d3392c85f951d0bf0aa

(2417)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:32 PM

About the esophagus - I posted below, but in my family n=1, my mom still loses her voice with every bad cold. But she used to lose it at the drop of a hat, and when she had it, it was hoarse. Her larynx was ulcerated for years and it hurt her. She did speech therapy, even. But now, she can yell and sing with the best of them. I've seen her heal. It did take years.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:22 PM

I use Bubbies. I'm not sure how to make my own. I would if I knew how.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 02:21 PM

Some times the symptoms happen in the morning, some times they don't. Some times they happen after I eat, and some times they don't. Sorry for being vague, but the consistency of the symptoms is vague. I wouldn't say vomiting has ever happened. Actually, I'd say the burping usually takes an hour or two after eating.

E8dd83fe24a0879d8b16ab4ca92b72dd

(1307)

on May 30, 2012
at 04:01 PM

Jackie, do you have a link, please?

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