5

votes

How Would You Design a Cheap Grain Diet with Paleo Principles?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created January 03, 2011 at 9:40 AM

Sounds like a contradiction I know. But if you were to design a diet for someone, say they were going through financial hardship or something, what would it include and what ways would you make it healthier? In my opinion, if we were going to try and get people in India and other poor countries to be healthier, this would be a good start. But also, this is for me since I'm a poor college student and I have no insulin or diabetes issues since making an attempt to be a professional athlete.

For example, rice and beans, the beans soaked and then cooked in a pressure cooker to deactivate most of the lectin content.

Fermented bean cakes like Idlis (mentioned on whole health source) which also break down the lectin content.

Potatoes with the skins removed. Sweet potatoes and yams.

Either brown rice fermented to reduce the phytate content (as outlined on Whole Health Source) or simply white rice.

Pork fat from butchers is usually free if you ask, so home made lard.

Any other ideas and information on preparation methods?

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 05:20 PM

Quantify "actively evil" please.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 05:19 PM

No contradiction at all. Survival is the first paleo objective, eating for perfect health is a distant second. Grain eating didn't get started until the Neolithic invention of cooking vessels.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 05:10 PM

Grain IS an ancestral diet. Not Paleo trademarked, but what's the point? Are you worried about voiding a warranty?

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:49 PM

Agree to a point, but Indians overeating a high starch/veg fat diet become obese and diabetic.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:47 PM

Interesting about buckwheat enzymes. I've been using buckwheat flour to coat clams for frying. They look like licorice but taste good.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:43 PM

But WOULD you eat it. Are you better than 7 billion people that are smart enough to know that grain means survival?

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:39 PM

Your point being? Did you think about reading the question?

E2b9c679315c7c9c7265783dde89f350

(1303)

on January 03, 2011
at 08:51 PM

oh yes, and skim the fat off the broth to use for cooking. Good broth is good for the budget is sooooo many ways.

3eb3f79868b24b3df4450ea2d4f9a5d5

(2387)

on January 03, 2011
at 07:12 PM

Jae - I think the Zone is a great way to transition to a "different" way of eating without sacrificin anything. It balances carbs with protein and gets people off their sugar addictions. Once they develop a taste for that, the way to lower carbs and higher quality food is not too far away. I've seen thast happen countless times and it seems to be easier than a total switch for some people especially if they don't want to live without grains. Or sugar.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 03, 2011
at 05:29 PM

I was with you until you brought in the Zone.... =( Zone is 40C-30P-30F. Not sure why that's any better than, say, 15-25-60.

0e4e5882872d6a7c472ea51aec457e66

(1994)

on January 03, 2011
at 02:42 PM

Cooking bananas, coconuts, tropical fruit and greens, fish, eggs, chicken: isn't that affordable? The least problematic legume is lentils (soaked and cooked) as far as I know... Small amounts of white rice may do not much harm, if a person is not sensitiv.

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on January 03, 2011
at 02:17 PM

i think this is an interesting point. can you eat by principles of evolutionary health if you make grains your staple? i think this is contradictory myself. i'd be interested to see other's points of views. milk vs. grain - if 100% of the human race is effected negatively by grain than i would go for the milk first. people ferment milk to get around the indigestion, i'd do that first before giving them grains.

3a966a805e09d88b0f223f2985392e4f

(836)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:40 PM

Stephen, I don't see much of a difference getting a certain amount of calories from rice compared to pork fat, which most people here seem to view as a cure-all for everything. They are both void of a significant amount of micronutrients, and with lard you're going to get a lot of omega-6 unless you're eating wild bores. Diabetics and the obese might benefit from eating the fat over the rice and athletes and insulin sensitive would probably benefit from the rice over the fat.

3a966a805e09d88b0f223f2985392e4f

(836)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:36 PM

Title says grain based diet with Paleo principles, ie using principles from evolutionary health. That is not a contradiction, that is actually useful thinking that could help people. The Paleo diet is not low carb, so I don't know why you mention that. And why not introduce fermented and soaked grains that are prepared to reduce lectin and phytate content if you're going to start introducing milk (which is expensive and indigestible for the majority of the world and hardly healthy unless grass fed)?

3a966a805e09d88b0f223f2985392e4f

(836)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:18 PM

Modern industrial farming, such as the complete irrigation and transformation of deserts into productive farmland like in the US, has not arrived in many places. Apples are somewhat of a luxury except in the summer when they are in season. Not trying to be totally negative but it seems like my original question could be answered since I just saw a documentary on Africans who ate gruels made of grain. They had perfect teeth and skin, along with extremely lean and muscular bodies and good posture.

3a966a805e09d88b0f223f2985392e4f

(836)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:10 PM

Yogurt and cheese are amazingly expensive in some countries, including the one I live. Especially India and East Asia, if we're talking about the topic of improving the diets of the poor. In Asia, potatoes are somewhat expensive but sweet potato is okay.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 03, 2011
at 12:36 PM

Rice may be cheap, but nutritionally void. Potatoes are cheap cheap and are loaded with nutrition

1cbb6b2a813475d6c0b17fd5e898dc50

(1248)

on January 03, 2011
at 11:54 AM

100% agree with these two answers. Rice and beans are cheap though! My body can't handle beans at all but if it could I would probably supplement my diet with some to save money if I had to. A dozen eggs everyday is pretty cheap to!

Fe9564da32d84d7213ef2a203f97de48

(279)

on January 03, 2011
at 10:52 AM

You really don't need grains in any form. What you need is protein, fat and carbs - and for carbs you can use a lot of other sources (apples, carrots, potatoes and green vegetables). Also if you don't have problems with milk include yogurt, cheese and other produce.

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11 Answers

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5
E2b9c679315c7c9c7265783dde89f350

on January 03, 2011
at 08:50 PM

I would avoid the brown rice, even if soaked/fermented/sprouted. From what I understand, the phytates in both brown rice and oats are largely unaffected by soaking/sprouting. You may want to look into buckwheat, which is not a grain at all, and maybe stick to the white rice as a filler (useless for nutrition, but not actively evil in smallish amounts). Just don't sprout the buckwheat (look up photofagy if you want to know why).

I believe that there are several types of beans that aren't improved much by soaking/sprouting/fermenting either- black beans are one of those. I'd stick to lentils for most of the legume consumption. Plus you can sprout them in under 24 hours.

Home made bone broth is a protein sparer- it makes the protein that you consume go farther, so that you need less. Very useful if you're on a budget, as you can get cheap or free bones, and simmer for 1-3 days in a crock pot. Just add vinegar to the bones and water before you turn it on (you can also cook the meat in the crock pot with water, use that broth, then throw the bones back in and add more water and vinegar to get more broth). It also aids digestion, so if you use the broth to cook your grains, or drink it when you're eating the grains, it'll help you to digest them better (ditto for the legumes/pulses).

As others have said, you're basically asking about a Real Food/Nourishing Traditions WOE. NT has TONS of recipes, though not all are for the budget (like salmon roe dip), but are nutrient dense, and prepared for best digestion.

As for just budgeting- I'd be all over eggs, coconut milk, and bacon. They can all be a little pricey, but they take less to fill you up and will keep you going longer. Also cheap- organ meats, canned sardines, and the bone broth that I mentioned. Also, check around you for stores that sell bent and dent cans. My mother often picks up high quality sardines, canned mackerel, and the like for $0.45 and less per can. Some of these places even have excellent freezer sections, and even produce for on the cheap. Also, you can simmer fish heads/bones for about 2 hours to get a highly nutritious broth.

E2b9c679315c7c9c7265783dde89f350

(1303)

on January 03, 2011
at 08:51 PM

oh yes, and skim the fat off the broth to use for cooking. Good broth is good for the budget is sooooo many ways.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 05:20 PM

Quantify "actively evil" please.

15
667f6c030b0245d71d8ef50c72b097dc

(15976)

on January 03, 2011
at 04:19 PM

look up the Weston A. Price Foundation. Their philosophy is essentially what you are asking for. You can quickly think of it as Paleo with properly treated grains, seeds, and nuts. Im not advocating that as a healthy way of eating but it answers your question pretty succinctly.

9
0e4e5882872d6a7c472ea51aec457e66

(1994)

on January 03, 2011
at 10:39 AM

Chicken, eggs, potatoes, sweet potatoes, cabbage, porc fat and meat, offal of any origin, butter, apples, carrots, coconuts are quite inexpensive.

If you eat the above, you don't need grains and legumes and stay healthy.

0e4e5882872d6a7c472ea51aec457e66

(1994)

on January 03, 2011
at 02:42 PM

Cooking bananas, coconuts, tropical fruit and greens, fish, eggs, chicken: isn't that affordable? The least problematic legume is lentils (soaked and cooked) as far as I know... Small amounts of white rice may do not much harm, if a person is not sensitiv.

3a966a805e09d88b0f223f2985392e4f

(836)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:10 PM

Yogurt and cheese are amazingly expensive in some countries, including the one I live. Especially India and East Asia, if we're talking about the topic of improving the diets of the poor. In Asia, potatoes are somewhat expensive but sweet potato is okay.

3a966a805e09d88b0f223f2985392e4f

(836)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:40 PM

Stephen, I don't see much of a difference getting a certain amount of calories from rice compared to pork fat, which most people here seem to view as a cure-all for everything. They are both void of a significant amount of micronutrients, and with lard you're going to get a lot of omega-6 unless you're eating wild bores. Diabetics and the obese might benefit from eating the fat over the rice and athletes and insulin sensitive would probably benefit from the rice over the fat.

1cbb6b2a813475d6c0b17fd5e898dc50

(1248)

on January 03, 2011
at 11:54 AM

100% agree with these two answers. Rice and beans are cheap though! My body can't handle beans at all but if it could I would probably supplement my diet with some to save money if I had to. A dozen eggs everyday is pretty cheap to!

Fe9564da32d84d7213ef2a203f97de48

(279)

on January 03, 2011
at 10:52 AM

You really don't need grains in any form. What you need is protein, fat and carbs - and for carbs you can use a lot of other sources (apples, carrots, potatoes and green vegetables). Also if you don't have problems with milk include yogurt, cheese and other produce.

4b97e3bb2ee4a9588783f5d56d687da1

(22913)

on January 03, 2011
at 12:36 PM

Rice may be cheap, but nutritionally void. Potatoes are cheap cheap and are loaded with nutrition

3a966a805e09d88b0f223f2985392e4f

(836)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:18 PM

Modern industrial farming, such as the complete irrigation and transformation of deserts into productive farmland like in the US, has not arrived in many places. Apples are somewhat of a luxury except in the summer when they are in season. Not trying to be totally negative but it seems like my original question could be answered since I just saw a documentary on Africans who ate gruels made of grain. They had perfect teeth and skin, along with extremely lean and muscular bodies and good posture.

5
3eb3f79868b24b3df4450ea2d4f9a5d5

(2387)

on January 03, 2011
at 04:24 PM

Bryan, you might want to take a look at Dr. Weston A Price's works: http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html

There are some very good hints in there. But I agree with the other PaleoHackers that by definition there's hardly a way to call any diet including grains a Paleo Diet.

Still, you can be healthy with some grains. Eating in Zone Proportions might also help in keeping a reign on blood sugar.

3eb3f79868b24b3df4450ea2d4f9a5d5

(2387)

on January 03, 2011
at 07:12 PM

Jae - I think the Zone is a great way to transition to a "different" way of eating without sacrificin anything. It balances carbs with protein and gets people off their sugar addictions. Once they develop a taste for that, the way to lower carbs and higher quality food is not too far away. I've seen thast happen countless times and it seems to be easier than a total switch for some people especially if they don't want to live without grains. Or sugar.

77732bf6bf2b8a360f523ef87c3b7523

(6157)

on January 03, 2011
at 05:29 PM

I was with you until you brought in the Zone.... =( Zone is 40C-30P-30F. Not sure why that's any better than, say, 15-25-60.

2
E7be2ce38158357f5dacae07b43d1b29

on January 04, 2011
at 05:08 AM

Apparently, rice has been cultivated in India for at least 8500 according to archaeological remains. At that point, I think it's up to one's own self to ask what paleo means (or when paleo starts) and/or at what point our evolution became contradictory to our diets.

People in India with access to food usually eat rice, lentils, vegetables and a symphony of spices. They're generally very healthy and can live very long. The people with no access to food are so poor that they can't afford even the most inexpensive foods and end up as beggars or worse, just on the street.

Watch this. You'll never forget it. http://wimp.com/wecould/

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:49 PM

Agree to a point, but Indians overeating a high starch/veg fat diet become obese and diabetic.

2
852971dced053f84e0ab8a8e587762fa

(118)

on January 03, 2011
at 07:55 PM

Consider buying the book "Nourishing Traditions." Sally Fallon discusses creating a low-budget but adequately nourishing diet. It's essentially derived from grains+legumes (soaked and processed in a traditional manner) with organ meats.

2
691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:11 PM

Yes, a grain-based Paleo diet is a contradiction. It is not a paleo diet. Maybe you could pull off some sort of low-carb diet by eating one cup of rice a day or something but it would belong on the StarvationHacks website.

I think you can get a pretty cheap college kid diet with canned tuna (no cooking!) and eggs.

The next place I'd go for a cheap semi-paleo source of nutrition would be milk.

As for the people of India, etc, I'd say they might need a more regionally based diet built on things available. I think you could do a more dairy focused paleo-esque diet. When was rice introduced in India and China as a food, I wonder? I know there is a large vegetarian segment who would have a hard time switching to paleo for religious reasons. I am not sure our ideas would help them.

691f120a3e7a1a036845d105d86c99a3

(3641)

on January 03, 2011
at 02:17 PM

i think this is an interesting point. can you eat by principles of evolutionary health if you make grains your staple? i think this is contradictory myself. i'd be interested to see other's points of views. milk vs. grain - if 100% of the human race is effected negatively by grain than i would go for the milk first. people ferment milk to get around the indigestion, i'd do that first before giving them grains.

3a966a805e09d88b0f223f2985392e4f

(836)

on January 03, 2011
at 01:36 PM

Title says grain based diet with Paleo principles, ie using principles from evolutionary health. That is not a contradiction, that is actually useful thinking that could help people. The Paleo diet is not low carb, so I don't know why you mention that. And why not introduce fermented and soaked grains that are prepared to reduce lectin and phytate content if you're going to start introducing milk (which is expensive and indigestible for the majority of the world and hardly healthy unless grass fed)?

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 05:10 PM

Grain IS an ancestral diet. Not Paleo trademarked, but what's the point? Are you worried about voiding a warranty?

1
E565e11cf32b38ab1f45086c1e0205f7

(613)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:04 PM

Try millet. It's low in phytates, high in minerals, super cheap.

Buckwheat can be added to the soaking of any other grain because it has very high amounts of phytase, the enzyme that reduces phytates in soaking.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:47 PM

Interesting about buckwheat enzymes. I've been using buckwheat flour to coat clams for frying. They look like licorice but taste good.

1
Cab7e4ef73c5d7d7a77e1c3d7f5773a1

(7304)

on January 03, 2011
at 08:37 PM

Potato, white rice, offal, any lard/tallow you could get for free, beef that's on sale at the supermarket, eggs, and some heavy cream/butter to fill out the calories. heavy cream supplies a lot of calories for a relatively low cost. A few vegetables if they are on sale too.

-1
61852721b5ff3613f56f043fe890a679

(1172)

on January 03, 2011
at 12:50 PM

Dirt is also cheap, but I don't eat it.

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:43 PM

But WOULD you eat it. Are you better than 7 billion people that are smart enough to know that grain means survival?

-3
520153aac5cbf6d1fa09ff7bbe2663f8

(-6)

on December 05, 2012
at 03:24 PM

sick... sounds like a diet to induce cancer! not gonna eat pork fat..besides it death to the planet, creates suffering and would be murder to my own soul... gosh where do you gusy come up wtih this crap!

Medium avatar

(10601)

on December 05, 2012
at 04:39 PM

Your point being? Did you think about reading the question?

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