3

votes

Grains aren't food? (Real Paleo question)

Answered on September 12, 2014
Created March 12, 2012 at 5:51 PM

I'm in the middle of a controlled experiment where I exposed myself to wheat to see how I react while avoiding any other food I've had a problem with. I want to see how I react. Last time wasn't good but the context of the wheat exposure was such that I don't know if it was the wheat per se.

Now I'm big into reading about the brain and I love meditation. So with this grain exposure I found myself really focusing on my body and mind trying to see how it was different than a Yam Fajita bowl or berries and chicken. What I discovered (N=1) was that my body didn't seem to recognize grain as food. I ate rather a lot of food, mostly of the bready variety and found it quite tasty, quite rewarding but totally unsatisfying. I never got "full", never had any sense that I was eating food at all. It was like the reward pathways were lighting up but but , and sorry to repeat myself, there was no sense of "Food" that went with it.

Has anyone noticed this? Can anyone confirm (if you care to risk it) this sort of disconnect of feeling?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 16, 2012
at 07:22 AM

That might be. I've wondered if I'm very sensitive to the opiates and end up with a stoned digestive tract. :)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 14, 2012
at 06:00 PM

I hear that! I also notice that if I gorge on meat the next day I eat almost nothing. That isn't the case with grains.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 13, 2012
at 05:41 PM

You don't follow up a steak with chocolate? Au contraire!

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 13, 2012
at 05:40 PM

Does that mean I have to stop calling it "End-dive" and start calling it "On-deeve"?

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 13, 2012
at 04:42 PM

What, not everyone called "endives" endives? I had no idea, I thought that was the English name. Also, if you eat hard cheeses, smearing a bit of pate on a slice is super awesome as a decadent appy or something. Also, pate in dates, but really high in sugar.

Medium avatar

(294)

on March 13, 2012
at 11:46 AM

Chicory (in French: "endives") leaves are good for paté too.

Medium avatar

(294)

on March 13, 2012
at 11:44 AM

Endive leaves are good for paté too.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 13, 2012
at 01:03 AM

Celery sticks for paté!

Medium avatar

(39831)

on March 12, 2012
at 08:54 PM

Bacon: Potato for me is less filling than sweet potato but much more so than the other ones. Lard: That's weird, maybe it's a matter of the rate of appearance of glucose in the bloodstream, which may not be low enough with that hot cereal.

Ca1150430b1904659742ce2cad621c7d

(12540)

on March 12, 2012
at 08:34 PM

Why put pate ON anything... I'm all about cutting off huge slabs and eating it with my fingers... yes, it's a little soft if you're eating the classic types (country types seem made for noshing)... but... catching it before it falls is half the fun! *grins* (Yes, I'm being totally honest, not sarcastic!)

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 08:10 PM

Yeah, me either. Though I do lack for things to put Pate on....

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:52 PM

Krishnamurti and Jean Kline both talk of observational meditation as true meditation.(Quiet sitting is optional and most times an impediment)Here is your true meditative calling.Go into all your other "Me Wants" other than sex and wheat, and check out all your reactions. Use your "healthiest" reactions as the role model for dealing with the "weakest" reactions, once you see everything is just a reaction.I keep telling people eating real human food is a real meditative tool. They look like I'm from Mars!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:49 PM

Weirdly enough I tried this with some borrowed (given?) whole grain, hot cereal. Same feeling. Whatever I am feeling seems to relate less to fiber and physical fullness. Or at least whatever is confounding my body is able to override the physical fullness signal.

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on March 12, 2012
at 07:48 PM

Where do you think white potato would fit in the satiety scheme?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:39 PM

Excellent! Thank you.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:39 PM

I wonder if the strength of the "oooh me want" has to do with propensity for addictions, sensitivity to opiates and how long since last exposed.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:38 PM

It's taken me a year to improve to where you currently sit. At first wheat made me very sick but now I am symptom-free after one meal. I don't plan to test very often. :-))

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:20 PM

Nance - I think the reason I'm still struggling is I don't have immediate issues. I probably damage myself but no pain, so it's hard to directly attribute my mood problems, energy issues etc... to something I ate 72hrs before. Pizza - Yeah, that's the problem food!

  • 77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

    asked by

    (78467)
  • Views
    1.8K
  • Last Activity
    1260D AGO
Frontpage book

Get FREE instant access to our Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!

10 Answers

4
Medium avatar

(19469)

on March 12, 2012
at 06:07 PM

I'm assuming that by grain (bread) you are largely referring to wheat products.

If that is the case, you might find this paper interesting (even more so given that it was published in 1979 and we're really just starting to have this conversation in 2012)...

Opioid Peptides Derived from Food Proteins THE EXORPHINS*

"We have presented evidence the the exorphins will bind to brain opiate receptors as well as to those of peripheral organs. In summary, exorphins may normally reach opiate receptors in the central nervous system and trigger their function."

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:39 PM

Excellent! Thank you.

3
Medium avatar

on March 12, 2012
at 07:36 PM

This probably happens to everyone with wheat in the form of bread, due I'm sure to the fact the fiber is removed and then it is pulverized and loosely reconstituted, but much less so wheat pasta or with rice. For a given amount of energy, the satiety from sweet potato would exceed rice, which would exceed bread. I don't eat a lot of oatmeal, but I suspect that it would be between rice and and sweet potato. If one is interested in losing body fat, sweet potato would clearly be the better choice. Removing the fibrous bulk of a plant food results in a considerable reduction in satiety. I'd imagine that making some kind of intact, whole wheat gruel like early agriculturalists did would offer much better satiety than bread.

7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on March 12, 2012
at 07:48 PM

Where do you think white potato would fit in the satiety scheme?

Medium avatar

(39831)

on March 12, 2012
at 08:54 PM

Bacon: Potato for me is less filling than sweet potato but much more so than the other ones. Lard: That's weird, maybe it's a matter of the rate of appearance of glucose in the bloodstream, which may not be low enough with that hot cereal.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:49 PM

Weirdly enough I tried this with some borrowed (given?) whole grain, hot cereal. Same feeling. Whatever I am feeling seems to relate less to fiber and physical fullness. Or at least whatever is confounding my body is able to override the physical fullness signal.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 16, 2012
at 07:22 AM

That might be. I've wondered if I'm very sensitive to the opiates and end up with a stoned digestive tract. :)

3
96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:12 PM

My brain-gut axis "fractures" when I eat wheat or pizza.

The brain's going YEAH!!! Now this is FOOD, baby! More, more, more!

Meanwhile my gut's going, What is this s&$#? Have you lost your mind? Ow, ow, ow!

That's pretty much the story of my adult life until I joined this lifestyle.

:-))

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 08:10 PM

Yeah, me either. Though I do lack for things to put Pate on....

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 13, 2012
at 01:03 AM

Celery sticks for paté!

Medium avatar

(294)

on March 13, 2012
at 11:46 AM

Chicory (in French: "endives") leaves are good for paté too.

96bf58d8c6bd492dc5b8ae46203fe247

(37227)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:38 PM

It's taken me a year to improve to where you currently sit. At first wheat made me very sick but now I am symptom-free after one meal. I don't plan to test very often. :-))

518bce04b12cd77741237e1f61075194

(11577)

on March 13, 2012
at 04:42 PM

What, not everyone called "endives" endives? I had no idea, I thought that was the English name. Also, if you eat hard cheeses, smearing a bit of pate on a slice is super awesome as a decadent appy or something. Also, pate in dates, but really high in sugar.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 13, 2012
at 05:40 PM

Does that mean I have to stop calling it "End-dive" and start calling it "On-deeve"?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:20 PM

Nance - I think the reason I'm still struggling is I don't have immediate issues. I probably damage myself but no pain, so it's hard to directly attribute my mood problems, energy issues etc... to something I ate 72hrs before. Pizza - Yeah, that's the problem food!

Ca1150430b1904659742ce2cad621c7d

(12540)

on March 12, 2012
at 08:34 PM

Why put pate ON anything... I'm all about cutting off huge slabs and eating it with my fingers... yes, it's a little soft if you're eating the classic types (country types seem made for noshing)... but... catching it before it falls is half the fun! *grins* (Yes, I'm being totally honest, not sarcastic!)

Medium avatar

(294)

on March 13, 2012
at 11:44 AM

Endive leaves are good for paté too.

3
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32556)

on March 12, 2012
at 06:02 PM

I like your question!

Yes, my experience is similar. Occasional popcorn is a nostalgic pleasure--but I don't think of it as food--and I can eat LOTS of it...

Interesting with regards to satiety. Meat & potatoes fill me up really quickly.

2
7c9f81d68c78de1a31eab9c91c17b4b8

on September 07, 2013
at 12:44 AM

Yes. I have that disconnect of feeling...best example is pizza. I'm not feeling very present as I'm eating it...don't really taste it all that much but I keep getting another slice--and I'm hungry after(and bloated.) I am aware of the texture I think...and that is very addicting. The taste does not compare though to when I eat a ribeye and I'm concentrating on my food a lot more. I feel like I had meal with the steak where with the pizza I don't. That's probably why I follow it up with chocolate.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on March 13, 2012
at 05:41 PM

You don't follow up a steak with chocolate? Au contraire!

1
246ebf68e35743f62e5e187891b9cba0

(21420)

on March 12, 2012
at 08:19 PM

I know that I could quite easily eat 2lbs of pizza... and continue eating until I am "thanksgiving full" or until the food is gone (usually the latter).

It takes me some time and some courage to eat 2lbs of steak. I'm not saying I can't, but I am saying it's not easy. Add some grain and a potato, and I'll eat it all and ask for seconds.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 14, 2012
at 06:00 PM

I hear that! I also notice that if I gorge on meat the next day I eat almost nothing. That isn't the case with grains.

1
E834a761db1bc9343536844c2c6149a7

on March 12, 2012
at 07:03 PM

YES! I am all gassy and have stomach pains after eating bread. Horrible!

1
Ccacf7567273244733bc991af4ac42ed

on March 12, 2012
at 06:42 PM

That's how I view it. Of course we can ingest all sorts of things that aren't food that have differing effects on us - that's essentially what all drugs are. More meaningful for me though was to breakdown the idea of food groups. Sure, grains are a food group, but so are trees. I don't hear people complaining that I'm missing out on a whole food group by not eating enough trees. And there's plenty of other types of plant which no-one questions are best left alone. Sure we came up with agriculture and domesticated grains for a reason, but I don't think any of them back then, or even 100 years ago, would eat grains as much as we do now if they had the choice we do.

0
Medium avatar

(10611)

on March 13, 2012
at 11:32 AM

I've noticed that high glycemic foods are not as satiating as other foods. Over the last 5 years I've had to retrain my brain to eat them in controlled portions, and to stay active in order to metabolize them. While reading about Neolithic archaeology it's difficult for me to be dismissive of starchy foods and sugars because modern humans have eaten them successfully for 500+ generations. It's only in the last 3-4 generations that they have been available in superabundance for wealthy cultures.

0
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:32 PM

You, my friend ,are right on target. My brain does not recognize it as food, so it has no craving for it whatsoever, assuming I've eaten real food within four to five hours. Sort of like your"Me Want" answer, just to a different subject and degree.The bodymind is "chilling out" and reochestrating its energy on eating real food and having real relationships. Do you buy this?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:39 PM

I wonder if the strength of the "oooh me want" has to do with propensity for addictions, sensitivity to opiates and how long since last exposed.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on March 12, 2012
at 07:52 PM

Krishnamurti and Jean Kline both talk of observational meditation as true meditation.(Quiet sitting is optional and most times an impediment)Here is your true meditative calling.Go into all your other "Me Wants" other than sex and wheat, and check out all your reactions. Use your "healthiest" reactions as the role model for dealing with the "weakest" reactions, once you see everything is just a reaction.I keep telling people eating real human food is a real meditative tool. They look like I'm from Mars!

Answer Question


Get FREE instant access to our
Paleo For Beginners Guide & 15 FREE Recipes!