2

votes

Recommend a casein tolerance protocol?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 17, 2013 at 8:57 PM

I just did a month-long gluten fast followed by a series of double-blind exposures, and the result seems to be that stopping or starting gluten has no effect on my mood, energy, cognition, or physical health. But lately I've seen some people suggest that gluten and casein have similar effects, and I wasn't avoiding casein.

Q1: Is it possible that I'd need to be off of gluten and casein at the same time to see a difference in my health?

Q2: How long would I need to avoid casein in order to possibly see improvement? Is it like gluten, where some people need to be off of it for a month or longer?

I don't need help figuring out how to not eat casein; just looking for advice on what kind of data I'd need to reach a confident conclusion. I know that for people with a classical allergic reaction the effects should be acute and pretty obvious, but I'm not sure if there are people who get other, subtler ones.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on May 18, 2013
at 06:09 PM

Thanks, this is useful. It's a relief to see that the peptide effects are dose-dependent, because that means there's less chance of invalidating the test by accidentally exposing myself to trace contamination. The spinach thing sounds kind of absurd (and makes me wonder how many other foods also have some kind of opioid-like-like component), but I'll go ahead and strike spinach off too. I appreciate your pointing it out.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on May 18, 2013
at 01:32 AM

Also, gluten and refined carbohydrates are at least theoretically orthogonal. If the problem is that (as some would have it), micromolar quantities of gluten cause huge autoimmune or digestive imbalances lasting for weeks, then I need to avoid even trace contamination. If the problem is that wheat products mess with blood sugar, then I can made ad-hoc choices about when and how much I want to eat them just like any other unhealthy but non-toxic food.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on May 18, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I haven't measured my blood sugar rigorously, but on the occasions I tested while eating grains, it's shown no indication of being outside the normal postprandial range. Possibly because I was primarily eating gnarly sprouted-grain bread that consistently tests as having a low GI.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on May 17, 2013
at 09:56 PM

Maybe skip it for a month (should be long enough), then add it and see what happens. You could A/B it against some A1 cow milk if you want to get scientific http://betacasein.org/?p=variants.

Cb9a270955e2c277a02c4a4b5dad10b5

(10989)

on May 17, 2013
at 09:55 PM

+1 dude, that's awesome that you tried a double blind month long gluten tolerance test on yourself. I don't know the answers to your questions though.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on May 17, 2013
at 09:15 PM

Sure I can do it, but I don't want to avoid dairy indefinitely if it's not actually bad for me. One of the things I like about this community is the emphasis on self-experimentation. And if I do a test, I want to make sure it's rigorous enough to be really useful.

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on May 17, 2013
at 09:04 PM

I quit dairy at the same time as everything else. Haven't missed it. I say go for it, pretty easy to avoid if you're already Paleo (just don't buy dairy.)

Cf08ad26759fdd206a2c9f9385080a57

(995)

on May 17, 2013
at 09:03 PM

Simple, don't do dairy.

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2 Answers

best answer

1
13c5a9f1678d75b93f269cdcf69f14d5

(2339)

on May 18, 2013
at 03:00 AM

I think testing them separately will work unless you are concerned about the "opiod" type effects of gluten and casein. This is a dose related response rather than a true intolerance.

The Failsafe diet suggests 2 weeks for both gluten and casein together. The effects they are looking for are less obvious such as those related to mental functioning, emotional stability, etc. The note that spinach contains "opioid-like peptides in the form of rubiscolin." This post has some interesting comments: http://www.corepsych.com/2007/08/celiac-notes-opiate-withdrawal-from-gluten-and-casein/ http://www.livingwithout.com/issues/4_8/giving_up_gluten-2024-1.html

There are IgG blood tests for casein and whey intolerance, just FYI.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on May 18, 2013
at 06:09 PM

Thanks, this is useful. It's a relief to see that the peptide effects are dose-dependent, because that means there's less chance of invalidating the test by accidentally exposing myself to trace contamination. The spinach thing sounds kind of absurd (and makes me wonder how many other foods also have some kind of opioid-like-like component), but I'll go ahead and strike spinach off too. I appreciate your pointing it out.

0
04a4f204bc2e589fa30fd31b92944549

(975)

on May 17, 2013
at 11:22 PM

You said gluten had no effect on your overall health? Did you try monitoring your blood sugar levels? The genetically modified carbohydrates in wheat raise blood sugar higher than eating white sugar straight from the bag.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on May 18, 2013
at 01:28 AM

I haven't measured my blood sugar rigorously, but on the occasions I tested while eating grains, it's shown no indication of being outside the normal postprandial range. Possibly because I was primarily eating gnarly sprouted-grain bread that consistently tests as having a low GI.

72cf727474b8bf815fdc505e58cadfea

on May 18, 2013
at 01:32 AM

Also, gluten and refined carbohydrates are at least theoretically orthogonal. If the problem is that (as some would have it), micromolar quantities of gluten cause huge autoimmune or digestive imbalances lasting for weeks, then I need to avoid even trace contamination. If the problem is that wheat products mess with blood sugar, then I can made ad-hoc choices about when and how much I want to eat them just like any other unhealthy but non-toxic food.

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