30

votes

Paleo and pain: which issues are you interested in? (nightshades, bone broths, PUFA, etc)

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created March 18, 2011 at 2:33 AM

--Edit--


Thank you for your answers, everybody. From what I've heard and read, paleo people seem most interested in the following issues: sports injuries, pain from autoimmune disease, nightshades, inflammation, and posture. I started off my website with articles on nightshades, homeopathy, and bad pain conditions. I don't want to "market" the site or else I'd have to ban myself (location should be apparent in my profile), but if interesting paleo+pain issues come to you (like grace's mention of endocrine disrupters and PPAR agonists below) please do answer!


Chronic pain is a persistent signal from your brain telling you that something is wrong with your body.

Sometimes nothing much is wrong, but the signal is amplified for mysterious reasons. Sometimes nothing much is wrong, but your tissues are acting weird for mysterious reasons.

Many of these mysterious reasons can be tied to diet. I'm starting up a website in the next couple months to centralize peer-reviewed evidence on non-surgical approaches for pain. Approximately half of the treatments will be related to diet, and the evidence tends to conveniently fall on the side of paleo.

Which paleo / pain issues are you most interested in? Rank them if possible. I'll start with issues that garner the most interest and work my way down. Here are some that will definitely be in the queue:


21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 11, 2012
at 04:18 PM

TMJ and CRPS! Not a great combination I'd imagine. Your website looks very informative. Concerning your first bullet point, I've been researching a bit about what makes acute pain become chronic. While the research leans towards chemicals involved in the process (such as resolvins derived from omega-3 fats) I suspect the process has a strong genetic component. Awesome job on your paleo strictness, by the way!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:53 PM

I don't use this ancient mag oil but some peeps don't absorb well via gut esp with gut permeability (the metal transporters are mainly on the tip of the gut villi). "Without the presence of sufficient magnesium, the body cannot prevent the synthesis of cholesterol from proceeding beyond amounts normally required for synthesizing important steroid hormones (estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, glucocorticoids, etc.) and Vitamin D."

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:52 PM

MINERALS...NEED MINERALS! http://www.integratedhealth.com/hpdspec/magnesium-oil.html

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:47 PM

Hot, cute, lean, dark, handsome and mysterious post-athletes can still get functional hypoadrenalism/hypothryoidism...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:47 PM

Like all things that paleo might cure, it appears to me there exists a definite nerve-gut-brain axis... fixing the gut, stopping autoimmune damage, correcting the thymus/thyroid/EDC and attacks on nerve cells and their homologous peptide and DNA/centrosome sequences, then getting replete the foundational building blocks of nerve cells (cholesterol, B vitamins, B12/organmeat, hormones) seems KEY. It's complex but not really. LDN seems helpful for some refractory cases. It blocks the attack on the opioid receptors...by gluten/casein/soy mimickers/antibodies. Thyroid. Don't forget thyroid.

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:43 PM

http://www.cbs42.com/webmd/health/story/Natural-Pain-Relief-Chronic-Pain-Supplements/02HMxEkM00ONwDxW0XnHJQ.cspx

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:39 PM

I personally the pharmaceuticals should be reserved. For instance, for GABA-minergic activity with little/zero side effects, TAURINE, the free base amino acid works equally well (unless phantom limb or severe adrenally incompetence).

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:37 PM

Can't wait to see your site (because the NINJAs getting old!!) Ck these links out: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/complementary-medicine/200811/eliminate-nerve-pain-naturally

B1859f696e88d25460a6b8a333412ea3

(837)

on January 17, 2012
at 08:26 PM

In my family, my son stopped getting migraines when going low-carb/ wheat free paleo, and when he got tainted food at xmas (someone didn't know Bisquick had gluten in it, and told him the food was gluten free), he got a migraine for the first time in months, when prior to this, he had them at least weekly. His girlfriend, has stopped getting heartburn, and it came back with the tainted meatballs.

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on January 17, 2012
at 05:04 PM

Could it be the yeast/microflora? Belgian beer especially is brewed with a very diverse collection of wild yeasts and bacteria. My boyfriend (an avid homebrewer) swears it's good for the digestion.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 17, 2012
at 03:56 PM

Oh shiz, this is good stuff grace! Lots of brain candy here that I don't know anything about and am excited to learn. The last one is especially interesting. I've got the website theme picked out and am making everything fit together this week, and then it's go time!

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 05, 2012
at 04:41 PM

I have a mild form of chiari formation, and I get complete relief from an atlas/ axis bone realignment technique invented by Paul St. John. Google him! Find a Neuromuscular Therapist in your area, who knows this technique. You will be amazed how easy it is to fix this problem, for which Western Medicine has no clue .The atlas/axis bones are simply "Squeezing "the brain stem, causing all sorts or horrendous havoc with the body, mind and soul.

E7a462d6e99fec7e8f0ddda11b34a770

(1638)

on October 21, 2011
at 01:20 PM

Ali - FWIW - have you looked into your throat problems maybe being caused by GERD? It does that sometimes...

61b801de5dc345b557cd4623d4a4f26b

(2682)

on October 21, 2011
at 12:27 PM

I'm looking forward to your blog! Keep us posted. 8)

C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

(3225)

on October 21, 2011
at 10:28 AM

Oh, and like NP, I found a link between wheat and heartburn.

C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

(3225)

on October 21, 2011
at 10:27 AM

Butting in to say I've noticed a link, but I have to overdo it. I can cheat with a piece of sourdough bread at a restaurant, but the last time I had a gluten bender (three straight days of moderate cheating, if memory serves), I paid for it the fourth day with stiff achy knees and hips.

C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

(3225)

on October 21, 2011
at 10:24 AM

I must be hungry this morning. I read that as kielbasa...

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 21, 2011
at 09:11 AM

Cold stress leads to greater levels of endorphins so its related to opiods in part. Menthol topically works GREAT for pain. Bangay creme contains lot of it and everybody swears on it. My entire family use it for years. See http://www.bengay.com/bengay-ultra-strength-cream Capsaicin may have similar effect although via different mechanism probably via desentisization of nociceptive receptors.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 20, 2011
at 08:59 PM

Safety is another interesting issue. Some researchers say that opioids are safer than over the counter NSAIDs. This may be technically true, but the devil is in the details. I bought the domain and picked a blog theme. Now all I have to do is write the first article!

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 20, 2011
at 08:57 PM

All very interesting issues, especially inflammation and pain. As you might expect, they do not always go together. A painful site on the body may have little to no inflammation. There is an interesting article series that I've been reading though that attempts to boil everything down to inflammatory mediators...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17240081

61b801de5dc345b557cd4623d4a4f26b

(2682)

on October 20, 2011
at 08:32 PM

I second headaches, although I don't know precisely what cause mine.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 20, 2011
at 03:39 AM

Ah, chiari malformation! I've met one of you guys/girls before. My knowledge of this is almost nil though. Quilt / Dr.K would presumably know a lot because he's a neurosurgeon. That being said, I am interested in pain sensitivity, and when this blog ever gets up, I will write about the connection between that and eating habits. In addition, I've tried the drug you take (I think) and should look more into that and diet for a writeup on nerve-related drugs.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 20, 2011
at 03:38 AM

Ah, chiari malformation! I've met one of you guys/girls before. My knowledge of this is almost nil though. Quilt / Dr.K would presumably know a lot because is a neurosurgeon. That being said, I am interested in pain sensitivity, and when this blog ever gets up, I will write about the connection between that and eating habits.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 31, 2011
at 02:46 PM

Thanks for this. It's a very topical issue for me-- I had an appointment with my douchebag pain management doctor this morning and asked him about local pain mediators (moreso local-acting topical opiates). He said maybe ten words total. One thing I was going to ask him about but didnt was prescription high-dose capcaisin. My main question about that, and menthol, is how to get it into a joint instead of just at the surface. I have used these things before but not gotten relief, and I suspect it's not acting deep enough. DMSO might help, but has problems of its own.

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on May 31, 2011
at 02:38 PM

Shamanism and psychosomatics! That would be the surest way of pushing Paleo to the lunatic fringe. How about Ayahuasca and Paleoing. Paleo trips to Gabon to experiment with Iboga!

1ccc0b0b7a756cd42466cef8f450d0cb

(1801)

on May 31, 2011
at 10:46 AM

As someone who has AS, I'd be very interested in this one. Us "spondies" tend to do poorly with starch.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 22, 2011
at 04:58 PM

I got frozen shoulder after a botched shoulder surgery! Looking back, I ate lots of junk during that time period, which may have bumped me from "low risk patient" to "high risk patient", since young guns like me aren't supposed to get it. This is definitely an issue I should look at, thanks for bringing it up.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 22, 2011
at 04:43 PM

Riveted and cynarin: although I don't know much (read: anything) about what's good for spondies, I'll see if synthesizing some evidence on carbs would add anything helpful.

Medium avatar

(3259)

on March 22, 2011
at 03:03 PM

Me too...definitely.

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 19, 2011
at 06:39 PM

I would love this. I'm very interested in learning more about the VLC approach to spondyloarthropathy.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 19, 2011
at 06:01 AM

Thanks for the input...non-opioids will be in the queue. I'll do one post on Gabapentin/Lyrica/Cymbalta/amitriptyline. Hyperalgesia and allodynia probably also deserves a post. Fish oil and vitamin D will be big, so I'll have to make sure to hit the books before typing out anything out about them.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 19, 2011
at 05:06 AM

Anything that causes opening of Na/Ca channels can propagate pain.....Cortisol is a huge factor as our many other hormones.....the apo morphine analogues and the antibodies to glycine in the SC synapses all play huge roles. Gabapentin is given to many with chronic pain because it closes Na gated channels.....it sometimes works.....so that is why some use it. Steroids used to be used as well as NSAIDS by Neurosurgeons but many of stopped when we realize it could make the pain worse. I personally use a ton of Fish oil and vitamin D now.....more than anything else.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 19, 2011
at 05:00 AM

If you understand pain pathways in the PNS and CNS you will understand that they both allow propagation of the signals from transducer organs all the way to the thalamus and cortex. The key is to minimize signaltransduction. The longer the stimulus of pain is present the more biochemical change occurs at the neurotransmitter level at each synapse......the key is then to modulate the conduction by stopping propagation. You must eliminate things that promote it.....grains and dairy allow tremendous open channeling at voltage and gated ion channels. Look at what grains die to channelsinthegut

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:15 PM

That is absolutely nuts. I've read of a very weak effect of gluten-derived exorphins, but not like this. I will scour the internet for a possible explanation.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:09 PM

Yes certainly, mostly digestive and muscular issues but I was eliminating gluten at about the same time that I was getting a good balance of O3 and O6, which could be kind of confusing as to what was the cause.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 02:29 PM

Lots of good ideas!! I must remember to include things like sunlight, air, and too much internet time; and also statins and placebos (like homeopathy and reiki?). Pain is what brought me to paleo, and Lorimer Moseley is my favorite pain researcher as well. The non-Americans seem to have a more comprehensive view of pain (or maybe it's just reverse bias against my fellow Americans). Thanks for the insight...

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 02:20 PM

Any foods/nutrients/additives that spur your headaches?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 02:05 PM

Patrik and Stabby-- if you have any particular personal interests, do tell.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 01:43 PM

Have you personally noticed a link between gluten and pain?

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 07:24 AM

Yes, I remember that article--a red meat entry would be good. Maybe a few entries on food categories, such as red meat, eggs, fish, etc. Also one on greens (i.e. an "alkalinizing diet").

Be1dbd31e4a3fccd4394494aa5db256d

(17969)

on March 18, 2011
at 05:26 AM

I'm excited and I second Dr. K. Just so long as there is pain :)

93f44e8673d3ea2294cce085ebc96e13

(10502)

on March 18, 2011
at 05:23 AM

I give Kamal the benefit of the doubt -- he appears to be one of the good guys. :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 04:45 AM

Non-functional link removed.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 18, 2011
at 04:33 AM

It occurs to me you might want to remove the link to the site in order to avoid suspicion of self-promotion. But I guess Patrik will decide eventually.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:50 AM

Oh yeah, Pieter is a physical therapist. I really hope he answers here. Pieter, hear my call...Thunder...Thunder...Thundercats...Ho!

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:40 AM

Just found this question from Pieter D, asked last year: "Any change in chronic (musculosketal) pain?" http://paleohacks.com/questions/1623/any-change-in-chronic-musculosketal-pain

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:35 AM

That sounds good, a good remedy to a lack in the medical establishment -- or a good complement to an already very helpful and dedicated, but necessarily limited, medical establishment.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:08 AM

That is actually part of the reason for the website-- some issues are not solved by a simple diet switch, and need some paleo-honing. I'm also on the outside looking in, in that my body can't crossfit or swing through the jungle. I figure there's some people that for whatever reason (lack of nutrition knowledge, lack of health insurance, etc) need a good place to look for non-surgical alternatives to combat their issues.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:05 AM

Dr. K -- feel free to chime in. I'm interested to see a paleo clinician's view.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:05 AM

this is an excellent post, I agree 100% !

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:03 AM

PS, I know about a lot of the ideas for rehabilitation of tendonitis. Just trying to make my point in as general a way as possible, without turning it into a paleohacks question. (Though I guess I *could* make this into some kind of paleohacks question ...)

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:02 AM

my second choice is fatty acid balance, the third is posture.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117

(25472)

on March 18, 2011
at 02:57 AM

anything with pain at all....very good post.

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19 Answers

10
47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:01 AM

Alright, I'll jump in first. How about past injuries, particularly musculoskeletal injuries? I feel that the injured among us are sometimes overlooked in the paleosphere. I'm always reading about these seminars in the woods of West Virginia or the glories of Crossfit and I'm thinking: wow, it would be nice to do that -- if my g*ddamned Achilles would heal!

I feel like everyone I know is trying to get along with some kind of athletic injury from their past: hamstring, back, knee, you name it. And yet I find surprisingly little discussion of this on paleo sites. Sure, there is general discussion of the theory behind it all, e.g., that we wouldn't have the problems we do if we hadn't been wearing the shoes we wear and hadn't been sitting in the cubicles we sit in. I like all of this and I agree with it. But there is not as much out there on "paleo rehabilitation." What are the specifically paleo ways to make this pain go away and get back into shape?

I suppose the reason for this relative absence could be that most people see good results for their inflammation when they switch to paleo. But I also suspect that there could be a silent, inflamed majority out there, wondering what to do.

(Although Richard Nikoley's recent post about pain was both welcome and fascinating: http://freetheanimal.com/2011/02/tension-myositis-syndrome-tms-can-your-mind-really-heal-your-back-neck-shoulder-butt-and-leg-pain.html)

So anyhow that's my vote, pain from past injuries.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:35 AM

That sounds good, a good remedy to a lack in the medical establishment -- or a good complement to an already very helpful and dedicated, but necessarily limited, medical establishment.

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:40 AM

Just found this question from Pieter D, asked last year: "Any change in chronic (musculosketal) pain?" http://paleohacks.com/questions/1623/any-change-in-chronic-musculosketal-pain

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:05 AM

this is an excellent post, I agree 100% !

47a42b6be94caf700fce9509e38bb6a4

(9647)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:03 AM

PS, I know about a lot of the ideas for rehabilitation of tendonitis. Just trying to make my point in as general a way as possible, without turning it into a paleohacks question. (Though I guess I *could* make this into some kind of paleohacks question ...)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:08 AM

That is actually part of the reason for the website-- some issues are not solved by a simple diet switch, and need some paleo-honing. I'm also on the outside looking in, in that my body can't crossfit or swing through the jungle. I figure there's some people that for whatever reason (lack of nutrition knowledge, lack of health insurance, etc) need a good place to look for non-surgical alternatives to combat their issues.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:50 AM

Oh yeah, Pieter is a physical therapist. I really hope he answers here. Pieter, hear my call...Thunder...Thunder...Thundercats...Ho!

6
89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on March 18, 2011
at 04:41 PM

Another possibly interesting thing could be the influence of carbs/fiber on Ankylositis Spondylans via the bateria Klebsiella (look for Ebringer). Peter at hyperlipid has some posts on this. I have a patient with fibromyalgia that follows the Ebringer 'dietary guidelines' with partial succes (partial maybe also because of difficulty in being 100% strict).

1471beca8e3adff4ae2f89d10e5f7acb

(6550)

on March 19, 2011
at 06:39 PM

I would love this. I'm very interested in learning more about the VLC approach to spondyloarthropathy.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 22, 2011
at 04:43 PM

Riveted and cynarin: although I don't know much (read: anything) about what's good for spondies, I'll see if synthesizing some evidence on carbs would add anything helpful.

Medium avatar

(3259)

on March 22, 2011
at 03:03 PM

Me too...definitely.

1ccc0b0b7a756cd42466cef8f450d0cb

(1801)

on May 31, 2011
at 10:46 AM

As someone who has AS, I'd be very interested in this one. Us "spondies" tend to do poorly with starch.

C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

(3225)

on October 21, 2011
at 10:24 AM

I must be hungry this morning. I read that as kielbasa...

3
6714718e2245e5190017d643a7614157

on April 07, 2012
at 07:25 PM

Causes of skin inflammation.

I know there are lots of possible causes but maybe something on the most common causes would be good to know about.

3
3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 17, 2012
at 03:43 PM

This is epic Kamal. I look forward to you masterpiece and the learning journey!!

Hormones

--PPAR agonists-- fatty acids incl sat fats and fish oil. mthis is why i am a big fan of the multitalented omega3 which remap our cellular xommunication via the membranes and action potentials as well as controlling NFkB via PPAR and other nuclear mechanisms

--thyroid-personally i have observed several cases of fibromyalgia pain (and the corresponding mood disorders) improve 50-80% by appropriate improvements in thyroid function (and related thyroid parameters eg adrenals, vitamind D status, omega3, mag/zn/se). pain is brain and nervous system perception and thyroid and ALL the hormones affect the nervous system i have discovered

--GLA and ALA the 'good' omega 6 and the overlooked shorter chained omega3, respectively

--progesterone, dhea, preg, T, estriol

--avoidance of endocrine disruptors, live in the most polluted times and this translates to disrupted hormones, thyroids, leptin/insulin resistance, visceral fat, sarcopenia, damaged mitochondria, and elevated silent inflammation.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on January 17, 2012
at 03:56 PM

Oh shiz, this is good stuff grace! Lots of brain candy here that I don't know anything about and am excited to learn. The last one is especially interesting. I've got the website theme picked out and am making everything fit together this week, and then it's go time!

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:43 PM

http://www.cbs42.com/webmd/health/story/Natural-Pain-Relief-Chronic-Pain-Supplements/02HMxEkM00ONwDxW0XnHJQ.cspx

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:52 PM

MINERALS...NEED MINERALS! http://www.integratedhealth.com/hpdspec/magnesium-oil.html

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:47 PM

Hot, cute, lean, dark, handsome and mysterious post-athletes can still get functional hypoadrenalism/hypothryoidism...

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:53 PM

I don't use this ancient mag oil but some peeps don't absorb well via gut esp with gut permeability (the metal transporters are mainly on the tip of the gut villi). "Without the presence of sufficient magnesium, the body cannot prevent the synthesis of cholesterol from proceeding beyond amounts normally required for synthesizing important steroid hormones (estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, glucocorticoids, etc.) and Vitamin D."

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:37 PM

Can't wait to see your site (because the NINJAs getting old!!) Ck these links out: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/complementary-medicine/200811/eliminate-nerve-pain-naturally

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:39 PM

I personally the pharmaceuticals should be reserved. For instance, for GABA-minergic activity with little/zero side effects, TAURINE, the free base amino acid works equally well (unless phantom limb or severe adrenally incompetence).

3864f9a2af09b1b447c7963058650a34

(3703)

on January 19, 2012
at 10:47 PM

Like all things that paleo might cure, it appears to me there exists a definite nerve-gut-brain axis... fixing the gut, stopping autoimmune damage, correcting the thymus/thyroid/EDC and attacks on nerve cells and their homologous peptide and DNA/centrosome sequences, then getting replete the foundational building blocks of nerve cells (cholesterol, B vitamins, B12/organmeat, hormones) seems KEY. It's complex but not really. LDN seems helpful for some refractory cases. It blocks the attack on the opioid receptors...by gluten/casein/soy mimickers/antibodies. Thyroid. Don't forget thyroid.

3
0bc6cbb653cdc5e82400f6da920f11eb

(19245)

on May 31, 2011
at 10:25 AM

How about the activation of cold receptors for the treatment of chronic pain. It is an interesting new area of research on pain relief that appears to be independent of opioids. The best known cold receptor activator is menthol.

Analgesia Mediated by the TRPM8 Cold Receptor in Chronic Neuropathic Pain

A novel treatment of postherpetic neuralgia using peppermint oil.

TRPM8: from cold to cancer, peppermint to pain.

From bench to bedside: a case of rapid reversal of bortezomib-induced neuropathic pain by the TRPM8 activator, menthol.

Cold comfort pharm. This paper is a good one to start with.

Cooling of the skin has long been thought to be beneficial in pain states but intense cold is clearly noxious. Does cooling lead to pain or gain? Rapid progress in this controversy has been made since the discovery of specific ion channels of the transient receptor potential (TRP) family that are activated by cooling of sensory nerve cells to below body temperature. This review focuses on the role of one of these, TRPM8, which has been implicated in cool sensation and cold pain by recent knockout mouse studies, but remarkably also appears capable of eliciting a novel analgesic gating control over noxious inputs in chronic pain states. We discuss hypothetical mechanisms that could bring about this composite profile. It is clear that new and highly selective agents will need to be developed to further evaluate the potential therapeutic opportunities offered by low temperature sensitive TRP channels.

How much pain relief can be obtained by topical application of menthol to the skin is unknown and maybe drugs will have to be developed. Capsaicin in peppers and Isothiocyanates wasabi may also have similar effects.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on May 31, 2011
at 02:46 PM

Thanks for this. It's a very topical issue for me-- I had an appointment with my douchebag pain management doctor this morning and asked him about local pain mediators (moreso local-acting topical opiates). He said maybe ten words total. One thing I was going to ask him about but didnt was prescription high-dose capcaisin. My main question about that, and menthol, is how to get it into a joint instead of just at the surface. I have used these things before but not gotten relief, and I suspect it's not acting deep enough. DMSO might help, but has problems of its own.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 21, 2011
at 09:11 AM

Cold stress leads to greater levels of endorphins so its related to opiods in part. Menthol topically works GREAT for pain. Bangay creme contains lot of it and everybody swears on it. My entire family use it for years. See http://www.bengay.com/bengay-ultra-strength-cream Capsaicin may have similar effect although via different mechanism probably via desentisization of nociceptive receptors.

3
89e238284ccb95b439edcff9e123671e

(10299)

on March 18, 2011
at 02:23 PM

Kamal,

First of all: good luck with your plans!! Let us know when your website is up and working.

Pain is soooo very interesting, if you don't have any.

My paleo goggles have learned me a lot. Actually, I got to know the paleo diet through my own research on physical actvity, musculoskeletal health and pain. My interest in biology and my profession led me to the diet.

As a physical therapist, I only deal with musculoskeletal problems, and mainly non-rheumatic problems. Most of the pain/problems I treat are a consequence of how people use their bodies, or how they have used their bodies. That means they are mainly mechanical in nature, and not as much inflammatory. That is, following conventional wisdom.

Because every cell and every fibre in our body needs nourishment, diet must be important. And in rheumatology you will find more and more evidence of this, although the concept of paleo diet is not integrated, I have heard and seen elimination diets being more or less succesful. Guess what, gluten grains and dairy are the first things they eliminate.

Unfortunately I have not been able to change a lot of my patients eating behaviour, although I have a few who have made changes and are feeling differences.

Besides diet I think a lot of lifestyle issues could be adressed on your site, like the psychological and social mismatch between HG era and now, like the physical activity (over/under/other) and posture, like biophilia, sunlight, fresh air, like being on the internet all the time and being connected. I think even things like psychomotor development from babies and kids. Lots of things to cover.

Interesting blog by my absolute favourite pain researcher: http://bodyinmind.org.

Evolutionary medicine also has some interesting points, besides mismatch of diet, exercise and lifestyle. Randolf Nesse has some interesting papers about the smoke detector principle and the evolutionary survival value of our protection systems (pain, anxiety, ...). Trade offs rule in natural selection. Homo sapiens is not perfect.

Some suggested topics:

osteoarthritis and diet

statins that cause a lot of side effects, a major one being musculoskeletal pain!

shamanism and placebo/psychosomatics

Again, good luck and thanks already.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 02:29 PM

Lots of good ideas!! I must remember to include things like sunlight, air, and too much internet time; and also statins and placebos (like homeopathy and reiki?). Pain is what brought me to paleo, and Lorimer Moseley is my favorite pain researcher as well. The non-Americans seem to have a more comprehensive view of pain (or maybe it's just reverse bias against my fellow Americans). Thanks for the insight...

3c6b4eed18dc57f746755b698426e7c8

(5152)

on May 31, 2011
at 02:38 PM

Shamanism and psychosomatics! That would be the surest way of pushing Paleo to the lunatic fringe. How about Ayahuasca and Paleoing. Paleo trips to Gabon to experiment with Iboga!

3
Medium avatar

(3259)

on March 18, 2011
at 12:39 PM

I've been working with my own chronic pain for about 25 years (I'm 40). The things that are most on my pain radar right now are:

  • Leaky gut
  • Intestinal flora
  • Diet (in general), low to no-starch (specifically)

Contemplative practice has always been a major part of my strategy, so I'd love to see some work around that.

Great idea...thanks.

3
B22e5946e28a1845a6006737e59edfc6

(2437)

on March 18, 2011
at 07:05 AM

Inflammation and pain. My back, neck and shoulders pop and crack all of the time. I feel stiffness across my shoulders as well. I cant seem to shake it even though Ive dropped, standard Paleo foods as well as dairy, eggs, nightshades, nut and seeds (it is much better though).

Edit: If you could also explore red meat and inflammation/pain. I posted a UC article on here stating that red meat causes inflammation and it wasnt really debunked. My guess is they studies conventionally grown meat (I.E high omega 6) but itd be great to see this topic tackled.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 07:24 AM

Yes, I remember that article--a red meat entry would be good. Maybe a few entries on food categories, such as red meat, eggs, fish, etc. Also one on greens (i.e. an "alkalinizing diet").

3
Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

on March 18, 2011
at 02:59 AM

Gluten and pain is my choice among your options. Effects of gluten on stomach, heartburn, arthritis, inflammation in general.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:02 AM

my second choice is fatty acid balance, the third is posture.

Ac1e55cf06c2180f4008ff01953d10dd

(3524)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:09 PM

Yes certainly, mostly digestive and muscular issues but I was eliminating gluten at about the same time that I was getting a good balance of O3 and O6, which could be kind of confusing as to what was the cause.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 01:43 PM

Have you personally noticed a link between gluten and pain?

C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

(3225)

on October 21, 2011
at 10:27 AM

Butting in to say I've noticed a link, but I have to overdo it. I can cheat with a piece of sourdough bread at a restaurant, but the last time I had a gluten bender (three straight days of moderate cheating, if memory serves), I paid for it the fourth day with stiff achy knees and hips.

C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

(3225)

on October 21, 2011
at 10:28 AM

Oh, and like NP, I found a link between wheat and heartburn.

B1859f696e88d25460a6b8a333412ea3

(837)

on January 17, 2012
at 08:26 PM

In my family, my son stopped getting migraines when going low-carb/ wheat free paleo, and when he got tainted food at xmas (someone didn't know Bisquick had gluten in it, and told him the food was gluten free), he got a migraine for the first time in months, when prior to this, he had them at least weekly. His girlfriend, has stopped getting heartburn, and it came back with the tainted meatballs.

2
Af0ee5941496dfb0d9a01a7522d148de

on March 11, 2012
at 02:56 PM

I'm new to the paleo world, and have a chronic pain condition (TMJ disorder, caused by being attacked by a dog when I was little, have titanium TMJ total joint replacements). Have been diagnosed with chronic regional pain syndrome as well.

I've been eating gluten free for about a month and strict paleo for 8 days. I feel incredible in comparison to before, but know there is room for improvement. I also have a website for people with this disorder. It's difficult because they are told to maintain a soft diet, which in turn, makes them gorge on carbs and sugar.

I would be interested (and I'm sure my readers would be as well) in a couple things:

  • Diet and centrally mediated pain - for example, is there any way to prevent acute pain from becoming chronic?
  • Gluten and it's effect on pain
  • What could/should someone do that is brand new to this? ie: what are some tweaks or changes they could make that would show them great results?
  • What to do (diet wise) when you're having a flare up - are there certain foods you should eat? how can you tweak your diet so it's less high maintenance when you're just not feeling good (so you don't start back up on the crap you shouldn't be eating).

These questions might be a little basic, but I know that these are topics I would love to read about and share with my readers. Being so new to my diet changes, I still haven't quite worked out how I will introduce them to my community....I just know that I feel SO much better, so I have to tell them about it soon! :)

Great idea for a site, btw! :)

-

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 11, 2012
at 04:18 PM

TMJ and CRPS! Not a great combination I'd imagine. Your website looks very informative. Concerning your first bullet point, I've been researching a bit about what makes acute pain become chronic. While the research leans towards chemicals involved in the process (such as resolvins derived from omega-3 fats) I suspect the process has a strong genetic component. Awesome job on your paleo strictness, by the way!

2
C2450eb7fa11b37473599caf93b461ef

on October 21, 2011
at 10:30 AM

Good luck with your endeavor, Kamal. It's a great idea.

My big issue is dodging a "genetic" bullet: the family knees. At the age of 39, I feel better than I did at 19, but I'm constantly wondering if I'm still in for pain, stiffness, and eventual replacement like my mom, her brother, and my grandmother. I'd like to believe I'm not, but my left knee still clicks every few steps I take. The pain isn't there, but it still makes me nervous.

2
2870a69b9c0c0a19a919e54cb3a62137

(1520)

on October 21, 2011
at 08:23 AM

Pain as a symptom of vitamin, mineral or other chemical imbalances. For example bone and muscle pain associated with vitamin D supplementation at normally tolerated levels. If it's due to deficiencies in co-factors like vitamin A or K or due to individual sensitivity to its toxicity. Also nerve pain, magnesium, whatdoyaknow.

2
61b801de5dc345b557cd4623d4a4f26b

(2682)

on October 20, 2011
at 08:49 PM

Inflammation in general is something I am interested in. How does inflammation present? Is inflammation always accompanied by pain? What about internal vs. external inflammation? Chronic inflammation? How does one determine the cause of inflammation and then correct the problem?

I think a post about how to research pain would be a great help. I've asked various doctors about symptoms and they often write if off as "normal" or that it's caused by something that I know is not the cause.

For instance, I have "chronic inflammation" (hence my curiosity about inflammation) in my throat that my doctor said was caused by allergies. She told me to take allergy medication, but the medication itself is worse than the allergy symptoms (and I'm not convinced it's allergies, but that's another story). When I told her this, her only solution was to try a different brand. I did. It was worse, as I expected. She told me to try a different brand. sigh

Another topic could be about how to safely relieve pain. In high school, I took Advil almost daily to relieve headaches and other various pains. It was only much later (after dealing with rebound headaches) that I realized pills weren't the only option to relieving pain.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 20, 2011
at 08:57 PM

All very interesting issues, especially inflammation and pain. As you might expect, they do not always go together. A painful site on the body may have little to no inflammation. There is an interesting article series that I've been reading though that attempts to boil everything down to inflammatory mediators...http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17240081

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 20, 2011
at 08:59 PM

Safety is another interesting issue. Some researchers say that opioids are safer than over the counter NSAIDs. This may be technically true, but the devil is in the details. I bought the domain and picked a blog theme. Now all I have to do is write the first article!

E7a462d6e99fec7e8f0ddda11b34a770

(1638)

on October 21, 2011
at 01:20 PM

Ali - FWIW - have you looked into your throat problems maybe being caused by GERD? It does that sometimes...

2
Cc49234f065a33c763ab09fa234d08eb

(292)

on October 20, 2011
at 02:54 AM

I take a daily prescription medication for chronic pain. I have chiari malformation (thanks mom!) and have had bad headaches since I was about 12. In layman's terms, chiari is when the base of your brain is too big for your skull and so it will push your brain and brainstem downward. My mom had pretty intense surgery for it back in 2006, but so far mine has only manifested as headaches on the left side of the base of my skull. Since I was young (maybe 12-14?) I would basically eat ibuprofen like candy...but it never helped. Finally when I was about 21 or so I went to a new doctor, he did some scans and diagnosed it and put me on a nerve blocker. I've been taking it about 7 years now and it helps immensely.

Since going paleo my headaches do seem less frequent and less severe. I'm not sure if I equal it to any certain thing being eliminated. Celiac disease runs in my family (mom again!) and while I've been tested and told I don't have it, I'm sure I have an intolerance of some sort. I did notice that when I would eat some dairy after being strict paleo for a month or so, I would have really bad joint pain. Which going paleo had previously eliminated, so you may want to look into the dairy/pain relation on your website as well.

I love your website idea. I can't tell you how many times I've googled "paleo + chiari malformation" just to see if anyone else who has chiari has switched to paleo and noticed a difference. Having a pain website to visit, like you described, sounds awesome! :)

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 20, 2011
at 03:38 AM

Ah, chiari malformation! I've met one of you guys/girls before. My knowledge of this is almost nil though. Quilt / Dr.K would presumably know a lot because is a neurosurgeon. That being said, I am interested in pain sensitivity, and when this blog ever gets up, I will write about the connection between that and eating habits.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on October 20, 2011
at 03:39 AM

Ah, chiari malformation! I've met one of you guys/girls before. My knowledge of this is almost nil though. Quilt / Dr.K would presumably know a lot because he's a neurosurgeon. That being said, I am interested in pain sensitivity, and when this blog ever gets up, I will write about the connection between that and eating habits. In addition, I've tried the drug you take (I think) and should look more into that and diet for a writeup on nerve-related drugs.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on January 05, 2012
at 04:41 PM

I have a mild form of chiari formation, and I get complete relief from an atlas/ axis bone realignment technique invented by Paul St. John. Google him! Find a Neuromuscular Therapist in your area, who knows this technique. You will be amazed how easy it is to fix this problem, for which Western Medicine has no clue .The atlas/axis bones are simply "Squeezing "the brain stem, causing all sorts or horrendous havoc with the body, mind and soul.

1
293ba4c95d190bc616b27d85b10d705a

(661)

on October 21, 2011
at 02:42 AM

Collagen and diet/hormones

1
Bbb993c8dacf76dd461703a82686c06a

(135)

on March 22, 2011
at 04:44 PM

The relationship between gluten/autoimmune illness/leaky gut and adhesive capsulitis a.k.a. frozen shoulder. I developed this condition during an ill-advised gluten challenge. Took 5 months to get it diagnosed.

Good luck, this looks absolutely fascinating

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 22, 2011
at 04:58 PM

I got frozen shoulder after a botched shoulder surgery! Looking back, I ate lots of junk during that time period, which may have bumped me from "low risk patient" to "high risk patient", since young guns like me aren't supposed to get it. This is definitely an issue I should look at, thanks for bringing it up.

1
C61399790c6531a0af344ab0c40048f1

on March 18, 2011
at 05:34 PM

Very interested in posture and pain - sure that's my problem. I'm trying Gokhale but not very consistent and could do with someone to 'spot' me or at least keep reminding me. I would also be interested in the others in your list because maybe there is something there I have overlooked. I know you're not allowed to advertise or link but let us know what the site is called when it is up and running. Thanks.

1
452b4d079e0c39d4ca923e712f64239f

on March 18, 2011
at 03:11 PM

All I know about gluten and pain is that when my husband drinks a Sara buckwheat ale from Belgium, his knee pain (from an old injury--nerve damage) completely disappears. Nothing else helps except complete knockout.

I've tried giving him hops supplements, feeding him actual buckwheat, and looking for other beer ingredients I could get in supplement form, but all I can figure is it must have something to do with the brewing process itself.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 03:15 PM

That is absolutely nuts. I've read of a very weak effect of gluten-derived exorphins, but not like this. I will scour the internet for a possible explanation.

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on January 17, 2012
at 05:04 PM

Could it be the yeast/microflora? Belgian beer especially is brewed with a very diverse collection of wild yeasts and bacteria. My boyfriend (an avid homebrewer) swears it's good for the digestion.

1
Bad3a78e228c67a7513c28f17c36b3cf

(1387)

on March 18, 2011
at 12:51 PM

headaches and arthritis pain.

21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7

(24543)

on March 18, 2011
at 02:20 PM

Any foods/nutrients/additives that spur your headaches?

61b801de5dc345b557cd4623d4a4f26b

(2682)

on October 20, 2011
at 08:32 PM

I second headaches, although I don't know precisely what cause mine.

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