3

votes

No wheat/gluten trial - how long?

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created October 02, 2011 at 5:56 AM

If I want to suggest to someone that they just try going off wheat or gluten for X amount of time, then reintroduce it to see if and how it affects him/her - how long does the person need to be clean to really test the effects?

Also, would a person get carb flu just by cutting out grains even if still eating rice and potatoes?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 03, 2011
at 07:07 AM

We are not 'designed' to exercise or take sunshine. It just happened that way. You are talking about divine intervention if you keep your thesis. You also say that ANY amount of grain will make damage in you, and this is also not the case. The DOSE makes that poison. You actually talk about mithridatism which is related concept.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 03, 2011
at 07:03 AM

Oh, I think you are totally wrong about hormesis. You think that adaptation equals hormesis, while adaptation is only part of it. I really much doubt that we are designed to face specific stressors, as evolution dictates fast changes for survival. If your theory is correct, that means that there are never benefits of hormesis since its only adaptation - it equals to diminishing returns to poisons. This is not what is observed. Alcohol for instance doesn't make you only immune to its effects, it has strong beneficial action in the body.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 03, 2011
at 05:35 AM

Hormesis is not adaptation with consequences. Its a beneficial effect of small doses of poison, meaning there are no bad consequences.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 03, 2011
at 05:33 AM

What is there not to understand ? You seem not to understand it as you say that 'grains will damage your health no matter what' which is simply ridiculous when hormesis is in question - you don't choose the poison, you choose the dose and you claim that ANY amount of grains will damage you which is simply not true for majority of people.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on October 03, 2011
at 03:53 AM

I don't think you really understand hormesis, Maj--at least not the way I do. http://www.armilegge.com/hormesis-stress-were-designed-face

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 05:53 PM

Anyway, you can look at small doses of wheat and friends as hormesis.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 05:51 PM

@Caleb: Celiac people have serious problems and their physiology is not relevant to 'normal' folks. Diabetics shouldn't touch sugar but that is obviously not the case with rest of the world.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 05:49 PM

@vdh1979: Earth is not the same, did you ever asked yourself how will you obtain air ?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 05:49 PM

Great points thhq and I see you totally understand what I am talking about.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 02, 2011
at 04:08 PM

Iconoclasm comes with a price in prestige here maj. I'm partial to Dobzhansky, who spent a lot of time working with fruit flies, looking at short-term adaptation. Old-style Darwinism reigns here, not evolutionary biology's linear and rapid adaptations, which sort things out in 50 generations or less. IMHO most gluten intolerance was sorted out by failure to thrive - aka disease and starvation - over a relatively short period. There is a significant relict population, maybe 5%, that cannot thrive on gluten.

6229cd9a7ca9882590259fae022e2647

(3209)

on October 02, 2011
at 02:42 PM

Plus the wheat from back then is not the same wheat we eat today.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 01:43 PM

PS: and I think potatoes and rice are fine to avoid carb flu. Young males need more starches too. No way I'm ever giving up mashed potatoes!

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 01:37 PM

As someone with celiac disease, I even had a doctor suggest occasionally eating wheat or gluten. I know not everyone reacts the way a celiac does, but that kind of advice, frankly, is harmful - and deadly to some.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 12:10 PM

So, your explanation is beyond any form of rationality. If your system can't handle 50g of wheat per week either when glycemic index or toxins are in question, there is something wrong with you.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 12:08 PM

I.E. your explanation is beyond any form of rationality.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 12:07 PM

Learn more about epigenetics. We don't live in environment that was 2.5 MYears ago. You live now, and wheat is in every shit you can get. If you reduce your ability to digest it, you will have a lot of problems in your life. I prefer not to have a problem if some wheat snitch on me.

3432683fc74c2d2a40efe1e8f16ac1f6

(1130)

on October 02, 2011
at 11:17 AM

Paleo people usually say 30 days. I removed wheat from my diet, but didn't notice any reactions. Didn't re-introduce it, since I don't see a reason for that. If the person only cut out grains, she shouldn't experience carb flu.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 02, 2011
at 10:06 AM

So, obviously not eating wheat for 2.5 million years was a huge problem for us hominids. Thank god (pharoah) for the Egyptians! How did we ever manage to not go extinct?

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4 Answers

4
A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 02, 2011
at 10:13 AM

The longer the better - some people feel it right away, some don't. There is a reason Robb Wolf says to try it for 30 days. Most people will notice a difference by then if they are ever going to notice a difference. And 30 days is a long time, but most people can commit to it. If you tell people 3 months, well that's gonna put a lot of people off. And if you say 2 weeks, there are quite a few people that need a bit more time than that.

2
510bdda8988ed0d4b0ec0b738b4edb73

(20888)

on October 02, 2011
at 02:29 PM

The numbers I've heard are that if your gut it sensitive to wheat that it take about 6 weeks to heal. That also why I'm against "cheat days" because aven a once-a-week exposure is enough to keep you permanently damaged.

1
Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 01:42 PM

I agree with Dave S., though I'd like to add something. For all humans, and especially celiacs, gluten causes all kinds of intestinal damage. If you cut out wheat, barley and rye for a few days to a week then you stop creating new inflammation. The longer you go without gluten, the more of a chance your body has to heal. The haling, honestly, can take months.

When I first went gluten-free a few years ago (coupled with better exercise), I actually felt worse for the first week or so. I wasn't getting sick, but my body was beginning to flush out a lot of toxins. It wasn't until later, when I had healed some, that I felt the real benefits.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 01:43 PM

PS: and I think potatoes and rice are fine to avoid carb flu. Young males need more starches too. No way I'm ever giving up mashed potatoes!

-2
77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 07:49 AM

I don't think cutting out wheat 100% is good idea. You should eat some wheat once a week so not to loose specific digestive enzymes. I do think that wheat should be marginal source of calories in humans diet. So, I would suggest removing grains as a dominant part of the diet for at least 3 months. Benefits should be apparent by then.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 12:08 PM

I.E. your explanation is beyond any form of rationality.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 05:49 PM

Great points thhq and I see you totally understand what I am talking about.

A968087cc1dd66d480749c02e4619ef4

(20436)

on October 02, 2011
at 10:06 AM

So, obviously not eating wheat for 2.5 million years was a huge problem for us hominids. Thank god (pharoah) for the Egyptians! How did we ever manage to not go extinct?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 12:10 PM

So, your explanation is beyond any form of rationality. If your system can't handle 50g of wheat per week either when glycemic index or toxins are in question, there is something wrong with you.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 12:07 PM

Learn more about epigenetics. We don't live in environment that was 2.5 MYears ago. You live now, and wheat is in every shit you can get. If you reduce your ability to digest it, you will have a lot of problems in your life. I prefer not to have a problem if some wheat snitch on me.

Bdf98e5a57befa6f0877f978ba09871c

on October 02, 2011
at 01:37 PM

As someone with celiac disease, I even had a doctor suggest occasionally eating wheat or gluten. I know not everyone reacts the way a celiac does, but that kind of advice, frankly, is harmful - and deadly to some.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 05:53 PM

Anyway, you can look at small doses of wheat and friends as hormesis.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 05:49 PM

@vdh1979: Earth is not the same, did you ever asked yourself how will you obtain air ?

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 03, 2011
at 07:07 AM

We are not 'designed' to exercise or take sunshine. It just happened that way. You are talking about divine intervention if you keep your thesis. You also say that ANY amount of grain will make damage in you, and this is also not the case. The DOSE makes that poison. You actually talk about mithridatism which is related concept.

6229cd9a7ca9882590259fae022e2647

(3209)

on October 02, 2011
at 02:42 PM

Plus the wheat from back then is not the same wheat we eat today.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on October 02, 2011
at 04:08 PM

Iconoclasm comes with a price in prestige here maj. I'm partial to Dobzhansky, who spent a lot of time working with fruit flies, looking at short-term adaptation. Old-style Darwinism reigns here, not evolutionary biology's linear and rapid adaptations, which sort things out in 50 generations or less. IMHO most gluten intolerance was sorted out by failure to thrive - aka disease and starvation - over a relatively short period. There is a significant relict population, maybe 5%, that cannot thrive on gluten.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on October 03, 2011
at 03:53 AM

I don't think you really understand hormesis, Maj--at least not the way I do. http://www.armilegge.com/hormesis-stress-were-designed-face

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 02, 2011
at 05:51 PM

@Caleb: Celiac people have serious problems and their physiology is not relevant to 'normal' folks. Diabetics shouldn't touch sugar but that is obviously not the case with rest of the world.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 03, 2011
at 05:35 AM

Hormesis is not adaptation with consequences. Its a beneficial effect of small doses of poison, meaning there are no bad consequences.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 03, 2011
at 07:03 AM

Oh, I think you are totally wrong about hormesis. You think that adaptation equals hormesis, while adaptation is only part of it. I really much doubt that we are designed to face specific stressors, as evolution dictates fast changes for survival. If your theory is correct, that means that there are never benefits of hormesis since its only adaptation - it equals to diminishing returns to poisons. This is not what is observed. Alcohol for instance doesn't make you only immune to its effects, it has strong beneficial action in the body.

77877f762c40637911396daa19b53094

(78467)

on October 03, 2011
at 05:33 AM

What is there not to understand ? You seem not to understand it as you say that 'grains will damage your health no matter what' which is simply ridiculous when hormesis is in question - you don't choose the poison, you choose the dose and you claim that ANY amount of grains will damage you which is simply not true for majority of people.

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