Since there is a gluten question in the mix right now, and someone from Germany earlier was defending the bejeezus out of grains, I have a question that kind of combines the two. Could there be some sort of fundamental difference between grains grown in the US and Germany?
My body does not seem to care for most breads (which is what brought me here, to this style of eating). A little sourdough goes down okay, but anything wheaty and I'm going to be spending a good part of my day in the bathroom. As an experiment I had a slice of the pumpernickel that looks like a brick and is imported from Germany. No problems (at least no immediate problems).
Is rye, especially fermented rye lower in gluten than your basic sandwich loaf? Or do the Germans just not monkey around hybridizing the crap out of their grains like we do in the US. I know comparing rye and wheat is not apples to apples, but I haven't found a real soured 'merican pumpernickel yet to complete my experiment.
asked byHappy_Now (24553)
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on July 10, 2011
at 05:59 AM
Dr. Davis from the Heart Scan Blog emphasizes the genetic differences between current U.S. wheat versus traditional varieties: http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/12/put-lipstick-on-a-dwarf.html
I'm unsure if Europe imports a lot of U.S. wheat. If they do, I guess this wouldn't be the deciding factor.
on July 10, 2011
at 06:01 AM
I don't think there is a difference. I'm not from Germany but from their neighbor country the Netherlands. We do see the same issues as you people in the states. Religiously defending an opion or belief doesn't perse make it more right or wrong.
On this side of the ocean or on your side of the ocean we face the same questions. Although the breads in Germany can taste pretty darn good which makes staying away from them pretty difficult.
on October 26, 2012
at 07:07 AM
This is a long explanation but it's very complete, so hang on to your hats - or hijab, as the case may be...
Unleavened bread is ANY bread where the grain is not first sprouted, then fermented for a full 7 days to allow for a full conversion of all the anti-nutrients in the grain into something viable for people. Nearly all bakers I have researched, and this information is buried, fermented grain flour for 7 days, up to about 80 years ago. And the grain gathered in the field, was allowed to sprout, on the tall, non-dwarf stalks, before being dried. So, even if say, in the case of a pasta, the teig [the batter] was not fermented, it was from a sprouted grain. With modern mechanical gathering methods, the grain goes right into the truck and into storage. Let-alone I've seen reports of chemicals being used inside the silos, leading to questionable cross-contamination issues. Even without that, though, we can emphatically say or write, that without traditional sprouting and then full fermentation, this bread is considered unleavened.
The modern pharisees have managed to continue this tradition, of getting people to eat unleavened bread. It's a small priest-issue, not to any particular wide group of people, who 'block the entrance to heaven (satiety) and do not enter, nor allow others [who believe in the doctrine].' They have known for a long time, that getting people to eat unleavened bread causes mental and spiritual-relationship distortion, making people easy to manipulate, impose-upon, etc. Extract taxes! For the church, whatever. [people accepting a subsistence wage]. Create misery! Selling snake-oil becomes easy.
So written into their made-up rendition of history, is the authorization to eat this unleavened bread. People today do not think of their bread as 'unleavened', but it truly is not digested by the local organisms nor from sprout but from hard seed. The taste is slightly improved with the use of quick, laboratory-adulterated yeast, only a few possible strains - however, this is very close to using an air-hose to pump up the bread dough, rather than full fermentation that transforms the flour [mehl] into something nutritious, stable and a 'staff of life' as it had been for many, and certainly western cultures, in the past.
This post is not disrespectful of any particular religion, as I find all religions in one sense, to be a distraction equally. For those that have cultural practices of an unleavened bread, these are largely informed by priests, and as far as the unleavened bread, not for your benefit. Changes have been made to make these celebrations vegetarian, for instance. It's not too much of a stretch to therefore make the bread healthy; giving the participants something more to do together.
Whereas only a small group of people 'enjoyed' the body and mind-damaging effects of unleavened bread in the past, as dictated by a group of theocratic dieticians, a far greater number today, almost all in the western-world, now partake of unleavened bread in some form or another, daily. This destroys the digestive system, organs, and mental acuity of western people, and this and other pressures, result in the decay. For those of us more sensitive, we are the canaries in the coalmines; not the problem people, but the indicator the diet is wrong.
For a german version, the closest thing commercially is the Hopfisterei. Branches are Munich and Berlin. It's only a 3-day ferment, though. Not the breads in the front counter cabinet behind glass; only the round breads on the shelves behind the clerk.
For a north american version, the only bakery I am aware of is Bezians Bakery.
Here is a helpful audio on grains: http://tiny.cc/grainss. The MP3 audio starts playing immediately in your browser.
Bezian's Bakery http://www.yelp.com/biz/bezians-bakery-los-angeles. There is a lot of information on how he does it if you do google searches for Bezian and 'bread' or 'bakery'.
on July 10, 2011
at 08:02 AM
Ironically, I used To work for a factory bakery and our wheat was sourced from North America/Canada (including the organic wheat).
I don't think that there's a big difference in bread flour around the world, but I do think that the Chorleywood method of shortening the breadmaking process - along with a shorter fermentation time and a more glutinous (or glutenous?) wheat adds up to a bigger problem.
Perhaps the combination of the way bread is processed has more to do with it than comparing wheat to rye?
FWIW, I find that both my son & I had more of a reaction to bread than pasta. I used to put this down to the yeast in bread, but think perhaps it could have something to do with the type of wheat (strong bread flour/durum wheat).
And another FWIW, I didn't eat much of the bread when I worked at the bakery (yuck!).