7

votes

Gluten intolerance - Paleo Community vs. Society

Answered on August 19, 2014
Created May 17, 2012 at 1:43 PM

Clearly, the human body and gluten are not friendly. As I listen to individuals on here, it appears there are a decent number of people for whom gluten has a significant negative impact. Do you think that this proportion (bad reaction vs. mild intolerence vs. no perceived reaction) is different for this community vs. society? If so, are there a significant number of people in society who would see immediate benefit from going gluten free? Alternatively, are there a more limited number of people who have high gluten sensitivity, and having been through multiple diets settled on paleo as it is more consistent with their dietary needs. This would indicate that the Paleo community, by nature of self-selecting a diet consistent with one's own experiences, has a meaningfully higher portion of gluten sensitive individuals.

C0237fd9e277fcef496d538beda1f35b

(287)

on November 09, 2012
at 01:06 AM

This is snarky, but if they say they'd "rather die", then there should be no medical bills. They should not seek treatment.

C0237fd9e277fcef496d538beda1f35b

(287)

on November 09, 2012
at 01:01 AM

Mine hit me in my early 20's.

04a4f204bc2e589fa30fd31b92944549

(975)

on August 08, 2012
at 05:38 AM

makes sense. the "on switch" for the gene coding for celiac can be flipped on at any time in a persons life.

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 20, 2012
at 02:08 AM

I disagree. I am young and thought I was completely healthy- transitioned to paleo to give it a try because i liked the idea of listening to evolution-- who knew that my body would feel even more energized? Didn't think it was possible. Case in point, I have convinced many of my healthy friends to change over too for a higher energy lifestyle.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on May 18, 2012
at 06:08 PM

A lot of people attached to traditional foods have told me me the same thing - they would rather die then give up their poor food (and they know their food is killing them). It's their choice and it's a free country- but I don't want to foot their medical bills.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on May 18, 2012
at 06:07 PM

Living with a family that cooks traditionally is different then going out to eat with business people. Also different families cook differently - some eat crap, some eat quite healthy, and many are in between!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 18, 2012
at 04:25 PM

I asked Japanese people today how often do they consume noodles. They told me anywhere from once to three times per month. They usually eat rice with every meal. Maybe your Japanese adults were eating out and they wanted something different.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 18, 2012
at 11:44 AM

And I went to Japan and ate Japanese breakfast, lunch and dinner. Noodles is fast food. All housewives prepare things with rice.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 18, 2012
at 11:42 AM

Thhq - I lived with a Korean family and I saw what they were eating on a daily basis. I also taught a large number of Asians and I watched them eating lunch and snacks every day for 18 years.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 18, 2012
at 11:38 AM

@VB, I traveled in Japan for business and ate with adults. I didn't eat noodles daily, but had my share of them in udon, shabu shabu and ramen. The Kirin and Asahi were around no matter what we ate. Compared to living in France I was eating less wheat products but it was never negligible in Japan.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 18, 2012
at 09:58 AM

My brother is a diabetic. I told him that this diet can save his life. He told me he would rather die than give up sugar and bread.

5e63e3fa78e998736106a4a5b9aef58c

on May 18, 2012
at 03:14 AM

I, too, can think of a list of people on whom I'd readily bet $1000 on their gluten intolerance, and even more where I'd think about it for a minute (and still place the bet). I usually suggest going gluten-free as a two-week trial, just to see if they feel better--only to get the "I can't live without bread and pasta!" response. So I drop it--horses to water, ya know? And who knows? Maybe they'll think it over and try it later. But yeah, I see so many people who are as sick as I was, or even sicker, and I *know* it's the damned wheat.

5e63e3fa78e998736106a4a5b9aef58c

on May 18, 2012
at 02:32 AM

@Lutfisk, this is (was) me. Wheat never gave me digestive trouble (that I knew of), but joint pain and stiffness, seasonal allergies, chronic sinus and periodontal problems, high blood pressure, edema, weight gain, lethargy, and brainfog? All subsided drastically when I cut wheat (and vanished when I ditched other grains). When I do occasionally eat wheat these days, I pay for it the next day with a nasty "wheat hangover." And that hangover is simply how I used to feel all the time--what I once believed was "normal." I still can't believe how much better I feel these days.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on May 17, 2012
at 11:32 PM

I don't like scare-mongers either. Everyone in paleo lives with N=1 biases that don't apply to them. My pet peeve is the assumption that everyone on here is trying to lose weight. Gluten intolerance is not the only N=1 bias.

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on May 17, 2012
at 09:52 PM

Although I would say it certainly is central to optimal health.

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on May 17, 2012
at 09:50 PM

@thhq: I doubt meat was ever a dietary certainty for humans.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 09:09 PM

@ Thhq - I see what Japanese and Korean kids eat ON A DAILY BASIS. I have NEVER EVER seen them eating noodles and I watch like a hawk. Their mothers pack rice for them. EVERY SINGLE DAY. Only in high school they allow them to buy cafeteria food, and only bad mothers. Most kids bring their rice. No noodles. EVER.

B4b56fcc5ebad76ed8e1709dedf01f86

(660)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:58 PM

^^ This was me! I thought that frequent bloating and gas were normal to have multiple days a week. I also had come to accept that my periods were extremely painful and were going to make me sick every month. My doctor never suggested giving up gluten, just taking birth control and muscle relaxers. Now, I take nothing!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:40 PM

Because that IS paleo in the ancestral sense. Get out of my chair and hunt and gather the best I can daily. The only dietary certainty is meat. The rest is uncertainty because we are omnivores. So gorge on fruit and veg in season and eat animals 24/7.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:24 PM

"Gluten intolerance is much more common than people think". I would agree, but the exact opposite is true in the paleosphere.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:22 PM

No it's not all rice VB. LOTS of wheat, for centuries. Almost all noodles are made from wheat flour not rice. Pastries and buns are made with wheat flour. Seitan is a healthy high protein Japanese dish made from pure gluten. And then there's all that beer.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:16 PM

I can diagnose a gluten-intolerant person just by looking at a person (skin, hair, nails, body composition).

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:10 PM

Maybe twice. But I had no gut problems afterwards. Gluten intolerance (in my case) is age-related.

Medium avatar

(2301)

on May 17, 2012
at 06:46 PM

then why are you on paleo?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Japanese and Chinese consume very little gluten - it is rice, rice and more rice. They eat wheat noodles very very rarely. Most of Sweden and Finland are gluten aware. The average time to diagnose gluten intolerance is the shortest in Italy. Both Italy and France are becoming more gluten aware. In Italy they make gluten free spaghetti and gelato that are widely available. In about 15 years more than half the items in the store will carry labels gluten-free, you watch. I just hope they will also carry a grain free sign.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on May 17, 2012
at 06:16 PM

VB - Did you take antibiotics later in life?

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Keep up the good fight @VB. We've already lost France, Japan and Italy. Oh wait...these gluten eaters are healthy and have long lives. Focus on China. Maybe they could use some help.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 05:58 PM

I had no antibiotics growing up, my mom did not have any exposure to medicine while pregnant, I was breastfed for 18 months and my mom had a very healthy gut flora (still has). I could literally eat bricks. I never had a problem (or thought I did not) till much later in life. How is that for an anecdotal record?

474ae29b80569199c6589e879e6cd7d1

on May 17, 2012
at 04:52 PM

Good points. I give no weight to my personal situation other than I am 1 data point among millions. I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from as it may make the starting point for my question more clear.

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:46 PM

Dose-baed to a point. It's not linear. Eliminating 95% of gluten gave me about 50% improvement. The last 5% was absolutely necessary to resolve my immediate symptoms and allow for long-term healing. Perhaps for those who aren't genetically susceptible to gluten sensitivy, you gain benefit from just removing the irritants from your diet.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:19 PM

I cured all that by getting out of my chair and eating less.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:17 PM

I have no health issues with gluten and came here anyway. I've learned to live with a lot of N=1 biases which don't apply to me. It's only when people extend their N=1's with gluten to the world at large that I get irritated. I don't like the scare-mongerers, especially the ones who are making money doing it with blogs, books and dietary supplements.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:14 PM

The paleo community does a lot of self-affirmation, which concentrates a greater population of celiac/autoimmune sufferers here than in the population at large.

1edb06ded9ccf098a4517ca4a7a34ebc

(14952)

on May 17, 2012
at 03:44 PM

nice .

B4596b07beac42c88ea7b3eab1c4c711

(95)

on May 17, 2012
at 03:38 PM

Great question!

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10 Answers

16
Medium avatar

(2301)

on May 17, 2012
at 03:28 PM

If you pay close attention to most of the people who "have no problems with wheat", they are tired/sick/have allergies/joint pain/stomach problems/etc, they just see it all as normal because they don't know any different.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:19 PM

I cured all that by getting out of my chair and eating less.

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on May 17, 2012
at 09:52 PM

Although I would say it certainly is central to optimal health.

5e63e3fa78e998736106a4a5b9aef58c

on May 18, 2012
at 02:32 AM

@Lutfisk, this is (was) me. Wheat never gave me digestive trouble (that I knew of), but joint pain and stiffness, seasonal allergies, chronic sinus and periodontal problems, high blood pressure, edema, weight gain, lethargy, and brainfog? All subsided drastically when I cut wheat (and vanished when I ditched other grains). When I do occasionally eat wheat these days, I pay for it the next day with a nasty "wheat hangover." And that hangover is simply how I used to feel all the time--what I once believed was "normal." I still can't believe how much better I feel these days.

Medium avatar

(2301)

on May 17, 2012
at 06:46 PM

then why are you on paleo?

B4b56fcc5ebad76ed8e1709dedf01f86

(660)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:58 PM

^^ This was me! I thought that frequent bloating and gas were normal to have multiple days a week. I also had come to accept that my periods were extremely painful and were going to make me sick every month. My doctor never suggested giving up gluten, just taking birth control and muscle relaxers. Now, I take nothing!

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:40 PM

Because that IS paleo in the ancestral sense. Get out of my chair and hunt and gather the best I can daily. The only dietary certainty is meat. The rest is uncertainty because we are omnivores. So gorge on fruit and veg in season and eat animals 24/7.

5ef574d7893bc816ec52e04139e9bc09

(6097)

on May 17, 2012
at 09:50 PM

@thhq: I doubt meat was ever a dietary certainty for humans.

10
E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on May 17, 2012
at 03:39 PM

I think there is a higher incidence of gluten intolerance in the paleo community because many people come to paleo after having health issues. If I wasn't having all kinds of problems (ultimately learned were caused by gluten), I would have never started researching this diet.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:17 PM

I have no health issues with gluten and came here anyway. I've learned to live with a lot of N=1 biases which don't apply to me. It's only when people extend their N=1's with gluten to the world at large that I get irritated. I don't like the scare-mongerers, especially the ones who are making money doing it with blogs, books and dietary supplements.

E68bdbd83e45fd5be130e393ace9c9a9

(2063)

on May 17, 2012
at 11:32 PM

I don't like scare-mongers either. Everyone in paleo lives with N=1 biases that don't apply to them. My pet peeve is the assumption that everyone on here is trying to lose weight. Gluten intolerance is not the only N=1 bias.

2
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 17, 2012
at 03:38 PM

Gluten-intolerance: symptom or disease? That is the question in my mind.

Paleo folks tend to be gluten-intolerant because they find paleo because of their damaged gut. It's either treatment or necessity. Healthy folks don't tend to transition to paleo. There's nothing to treat nor any necessity to keep gluten-free paleo.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:14 PM

The paleo community does a lot of self-affirmation, which concentrates a greater population of celiac/autoimmune sufferers here than in the population at large.

93eea7754e6e94b6085dbabbb48c0bb7

on May 20, 2012
at 02:08 AM

I disagree. I am young and thought I was completely healthy- transitioned to paleo to give it a try because i liked the idea of listening to evolution-- who knew that my body would feel even more energized? Didn't think it was possible. Case in point, I have convinced many of my healthy friends to change over too for a higher energy lifestyle.

2
Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on May 17, 2012
at 03:22 PM

My hypothesis is that gluten sensitivity/intolerance and possibly even celiac has more to do with infant gut health than any other factor.

That doesn't mean that gluten is good for us, just that some folks can obviously handle it just fine.

I suspect these people have had moms with good gut flora, no exposure to antibiotics during pregnancy, and were breastfed exclusively to around 6 months. They likely have had little/no exposure to antibiotics growing up.

I've read several anecdotes of folks being able to eat gluten with apparent impunity after spending time rebalancing their gut flora.

I suspect that we are noticing more gluten intolerance in this community because we are paying attention to our bodies more than the average bear.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:10 PM

Maybe twice. But I had no gut problems afterwards. Gluten intolerance (in my case) is age-related.

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab

(32564)

on May 17, 2012
at 06:16 PM

VB - Did you take antibiotics later in life?

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 05:58 PM

I had no antibiotics growing up, my mom did not have any exposure to medicine while pregnant, I was breastfed for 18 months and my mom had a very healthy gut flora (still has). I could literally eat bricks. I never had a problem (or thought I did not) till much later in life. How is that for an anecdotal record?

04a4f204bc2e589fa30fd31b92944549

(975)

on August 08, 2012
at 05:38 AM

makes sense. the "on switch" for the gene coding for celiac can be flipped on at any time in a persons life.

C0237fd9e277fcef496d538beda1f35b

(287)

on November 09, 2012
at 01:01 AM

Mine hit me in my early 20's.

1
F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 05:53 PM

I know there is a huge misunderstanding in general public about gluten intolerance. First of all, people have NO IDEA what kind of symptoms gluten intolerant people have.

I've talked to many people - they think that gluten intolerance means you eat gluten and then you feel bad. This cannot be further from the truth!

There are so many misconceptions about gluten intolerance - it is not even funny. People HAVE NO IDEA. Only after I was diagnosed as gluten intolerant (by elimination diet, by the way) and started to read all kinds of professional literature on gluten, I have realized the truly devastating effects of it. I would not even touch anything with gluten for the life of it! And the public is still unaware of simple facts!!!

Facts:

30% of European population carries the genes that are responsible for gluten intolerance.

The number of gluten intolerant people doubles every fifteen years.

The amount of gluten in grains (especially wheat) steadily increases over time.

There is such thing as silent celiac - when the person is gluten intolerant and has no symptoms whatsoever. http://www.medicinenet.com/celiac_disease/page5.htm It means the damage is being done, but the person is unaware of it.

Gluten sensitivity/intolerance is linked to autoimmune diseases (and there are quite a number of them). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoimmune_disease#Classification

People who are gluten intolerant and do not know about it will die earlier.

Gluten intolerance is much more common that people think.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 06:06 PM

Keep up the good fight @VB. We've already lost France, Japan and Italy. Oh wait...these gluten eaters are healthy and have long lives. Focus on China. Maybe they could use some help.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 18, 2012
at 04:25 PM

I asked Japanese people today how often do they consume noodles. They told me anywhere from once to three times per month. They usually eat rice with every meal. Maybe your Japanese adults were eating out and they wanted something different.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:22 PM

No it's not all rice VB. LOTS of wheat, for centuries. Almost all noodles are made from wheat flour not rice. Pastries and buns are made with wheat flour. Seitan is a healthy high protein Japanese dish made from pure gluten. And then there's all that beer.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 18, 2012
at 11:44 AM

And I went to Japan and ate Japanese breakfast, lunch and dinner. Noodles is fast food. All housewives prepare things with rice.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 06:28 PM

Japanese and Chinese consume very little gluten - it is rice, rice and more rice. They eat wheat noodles very very rarely. Most of Sweden and Finland are gluten aware. The average time to diagnose gluten intolerance is the shortest in Italy. Both Italy and France are becoming more gluten aware. In Italy they make gluten free spaghetti and gelato that are widely available. In about 15 years more than half the items in the store will carry labels gluten-free, you watch. I just hope they will also carry a grain free sign.

A2c38be4c54c91a15071f82f14cac0b3

(12682)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:24 PM

"Gluten intolerance is much more common than people think". I would agree, but the exact opposite is true in the paleosphere.

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on May 18, 2012
at 06:07 PM

Living with a family that cooks traditionally is different then going out to eat with business people. Also different families cook differently - some eat crap, some eat quite healthy, and many are in between!

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 09:09 PM

@ Thhq - I see what Japanese and Korean kids eat ON A DAILY BASIS. I have NEVER EVER seen them eating noodles and I watch like a hawk. Their mothers pack rice for them. EVERY SINGLE DAY. Only in high school they allow them to buy cafeteria food, and only bad mothers. Most kids bring their rice. No noodles. EVER.

Medium avatar

(10611)

on May 18, 2012
at 11:38 AM

@VB, I traveled in Japan for business and ate with adults. I didn't eat noodles daily, but had my share of them in udon, shabu shabu and ramen. The Kirin and Asahi were around no matter what we ate. Compared to living in France I was eating less wheat products but it was never negligible in Japan.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 18, 2012
at 11:42 AM

Thhq - I lived with a Korean family and I saw what they were eating on a daily basis. I also taught a large number of Asians and I watched them eating lunch and snacks every day for 18 years.

1
474ae29b80569199c6589e879e6cd7d1

on May 17, 2012
at 04:37 PM

Disclosures as it pertains to me and my question:

  1. I tend to view it as a dose based irritant. Hewing to a meat & veggie based diet I feel better than when I adhered to the societally imposed diet of cereal, bagels & bread. I feel less bloated.
  2. I am a compulsive correlational observer. I cannot go through society without mapping various behaviors to various outcomes. I recognize it's not causation, but correlation provides a useful starting point in terms of assessing theories. What brought me to eating this way was the observed inverse proportion between 100 calorie packs and the health of the individual making the purchase as well as the observation that the low-fat diet has gone hand-in-hand with the massive increase in obesity (again recognizing that correlation is not causation).

F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:46 PM

Dose-baed to a point. It's not linear. Eliminating 95% of gluten gave me about 50% improvement. The last 5% was absolutely necessary to resolve my immediate symptoms and allow for long-term healing. Perhaps for those who aren't genetically susceptible to gluten sensitivy, you gain benefit from just removing the irritants from your diet.

474ae29b80569199c6589e879e6cd7d1

on May 17, 2012
at 04:52 PM

Good points. I give no weight to my personal situation other than I am 1 data point among millions. I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from as it may make the starting point for my question more clear.

1
32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46

(41747)

on May 17, 2012
at 03:37 PM

Gluten-intolerance: symptom or disease? That is the question in my mind.

Paleo folks tend to be gluten-intolerant because they find paleo because of their damaged gut. It's either treatment or necessity. Healthy folks don't tend to transition to paleo. There's nothing to treat nor any necessity to keep gluten-free paleo.

0
Df71255c6b6f96d29cc58f05b51ebe7e

on January 25, 2013
at 06:59 AM

Research shows that gluten sensitivity in some form, including celiac disease and mild gluten intolerance, affects approximately 15% of the US population. These statistics are likely to be similar in Western countries with similar health issues and dietary patterns. Use this allergy forum to discuss more.

0
179887464e71f282a8083509811d3335

on November 08, 2012
at 08:45 PM

There are a lot of people out there who are gluten-intolerant (celiac disease or gluten allergy) who don't know it. They live with the symptoms, it becomes normal, and they carry on with their lives as best they can.

I think the people here and on other gluten-related discussions are more apt to look for answers rather than accept ill health, that's what separates people here from the rest of the population, not better health and better ability to tolerate gluten.

Many, maybe most of the population can tolerate gluten just fine, but there is a large minority of people who cannot.

0
F0e558010a2ecb31fa37b7c491596b8e

(3850)

on May 17, 2012
at 04:08 PM

I agree with all the prevous posters. I came here to diagnose and fix my multitue of health problems, too. As did a large percentage of the population here.

The thing is, knowing what I know now, I can give you a list of 10 people off the top of my head that I would bet $1,000 are gluten intolerant, but they either have no idea, or are unwilling to accept it. (Or have parents who aren't which leaves me grief-stricken for the kid). If I thought about it hard, I could probably come up with 20 more that I'd give at least 50% odds to.

I completely agree that poor digestive health is likely more than half the battle, but the only way to win is to get off the gluten first. And I just hope that as awareness spreads more people are willing to take the chance and give it up. (And as a side note, this is why I worry about people claiming that they "cured" their gluten sensitivity. I believe them, because I understand the mechanics of it, but for the general public, it just makes the issue seem a lot less serious than it really is.)

8508fec4bae4a580d1e1b807058fee8e

(6259)

on May 18, 2012
at 06:08 PM

A lot of people attached to traditional foods have told me me the same thing - they would rather die then give up their poor food (and they know their food is killing them). It's their choice and it's a free country- but I don't want to foot their medical bills.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 17, 2012
at 07:16 PM

I can diagnose a gluten-intolerant person just by looking at a person (skin, hair, nails, body composition).

5e63e3fa78e998736106a4a5b9aef58c

on May 18, 2012
at 03:14 AM

I, too, can think of a list of people on whom I'd readily bet $1000 on their gluten intolerance, and even more where I'd think about it for a minute (and still place the bet). I usually suggest going gluten-free as a two-week trial, just to see if they feel better--only to get the "I can't live without bread and pasta!" response. So I drop it--horses to water, ya know? And who knows? Maybe they'll think it over and try it later. But yeah, I see so many people who are as sick as I was, or even sicker, and I *know* it's the damned wheat.

F5a0ddffcf9ef5beca864050f090a790

(15515)

on May 18, 2012
at 09:58 AM

My brother is a diabetic. I told him that this diet can save his life. He told me he would rather die than give up sugar and bread.

C0237fd9e277fcef496d538beda1f35b

(287)

on November 09, 2012
at 01:06 AM

This is snarky, but if they say they'd "rather die", then there should be no medical bills. They should not seek treatment.

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